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The 7 - Football - NYG - SD trade?
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The King of Keith
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#1 Posted on 8.4.04 0954.09
Reposted on: 8.4.11 0955.36
Word from ESPN is that the Giants are trying to trade up for the #1 draft pick. As a Redskins fan, I can't say that I'd look forward to facing Manning twice a year if he turns out anything like his brother...
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evilwaldo
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#2 Posted on 8.4.04 0957.33
Reposted on: 8.4.11 0957.42
Man, if so, the NFC East should be a real dogfight in a couple of years. This may beat the glory years of the late 80's, early 90's.
The King of Keith
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#3 Posted on 8.4.04 1000.43
Reposted on: 8.4.11 1001.04
I WILL miss screaming "you fucking drunk" at Kerry Collins at every opportunity I get, though.
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#4 Posted on 8.4.04 1220.51
Reposted on: 8.4.11 1221.06

In an ESPN.com article I read a few weeks back, it seemed as if Schottenheimer was pretty high on Rothsleiger. If they could trade down to the #4 pick and still get their man, that would be a sweet deal ...
The Amazing Salami
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#5 Posted on 8.4.04 1221.53
Reposted on: 8.4.11 1224.09
    Originally posted by Mayhem

    In an ESPN.com article I read a few weeks back, it seemed as if Schottenheimer was pretty high on Rothsleiger. If they could trade down to the #4 pick and still get their man, that would be a sweet deal ...


I thought the Chargers were sold on Philip Rivers and that's why they were looking to deal. Maybe I'm confused.
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#6 Posted on 8.4.04 1230.25
Reposted on: 8.4.11 1230.51
The Chargers need help in a LOT of areas so trading down 3 spots and picking up some additional picks makes sense.
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#7 Posted on 8.4.04 1322.40
Reposted on: 8.4.11 1325.35
    Originally posted by VanillaSky
    I WILL miss screaming "you fucking drunk" at Kerry Collins at every opportunity I get, though.


That will be DEAN screaming at Kerry Collins when he's wearing the star on his helmet. Parcells and Collins will make a nice pair.
dMr
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#8 Posted on 8.4.04 1632.50
Reposted on: 8.4.11 1635.29
Strikes me that the Chargers are gonna come out of this deal better than the Giants. From the little I've seen and the lot I've heard, there isn't that much to choose between Rothsleiger and Manning.

I don't see the Giants as being that solid a team that they can afford to throw away picks just to upgrade one position. I mean quite what Manning would do to stop Tiki coughing up the ball is a mystery to me, but I suppose he might make the offense a bit more dynamic and take some of the pressure off the backs.

    Originally posted by evilwaldo
    Man, if so, the NFC East should be a real dogfight in a couple of years. This may beat the glory years of the late 80's, early 90's.


Feh. Can't says I'm that worried just now. We killed the Cowboys once we got players healthy last year and I don't see them as looking that much stronger on paper thus far at least. Jim Johnson's probably rubbing his hands at the prospect of dreaming up blitzes to terrorise the crap out of an inexperienced QB so the Giants don't bother me much either.

The 'Skins could be problematic, but unless they gel really quickly and do something in the next year or 2 they'll be an absolute mess salary cap wise.

It would be nice to have a bit of competition though. Winning the East's become so passe lately ;)
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#9 Posted on 8.4.04 1706.08
Reposted on: 8.4.11 1706.21
    Originally posted by dMr
    Strikes me that the Chargers are gonna come out of this deal better than the Giants. From the little I've seen and the lot I've heard, there isn't that much to choose between Rothsleiger and Manning.


Wasn't but 5 years ago that most would've said the same about Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf. One of those guys likely will be a bust, since the "hit" rate on first-round QBs is about 50%.

On a side note: It's R-O-E-T-H-L-I-S-B-E-R-G-E-R. I wonder if Madden 2005 will have it spelled out or drop the "ER", like he is in my roster-filled-out-'cause-I'm-a-dork NCAA 2005.
dMr
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#10 Posted on 8.4.04 1729.39
Reposted on: 8.4.11 1729.46
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
    Wasn't but 5 years ago that most would've said the same about Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf. One of those guys likely will be a bust, since the "hit" rate on first-round QBs is about 50%.

    On a side note: It's R-O-E-T-H-L-I-S-B-E-R-G-E-R. I wonder if Madden 2005 will have it spelled out or drop the "ER", like he is in my roster-filled-out-'cause-I'm-a-dork NCAA 2005.


Damn it I was sure there was a 'berger' in there somewhere but I couldn't be bothered looking up the right spelling so I copied Mayhem and hoped he'd take the blame

I take your point on the Leaf comparison, I just don't see why everyone's so quick to jump on the Eli Manning bandwagon. From what I've seen 'Roethlisberger' (can we call him Ben?) he strikes me as being far closer to the stereotype of a 'modern' QB with his size and mobility.

It strikes me that a lot of teams (and fans) aren't willing to pass on Eli largely because of his surname. Admittedly the 'Duh' factor is gonna be higher if you pass on Manning and he goes on to be huge, but thats got squat to do with the guys ability.

You could probably flip a coin to decide which one will go on to be a star. Theres no way I'd want my team to throw away draft picks so they can say take the guy with the surname.
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#11 Posted on 9.4.04 0808.01
Reposted on: 9.4.11 0808.32
Well, the Giants offense has always had success with pocket quarterbacks so it makes sense why they would be interested in Manning. If he has anywhere near the talent of his brother it would be an upgrade over their quarterback situation.

I am not so worried this year about the division but next year should be rough. Although, the Cowboys are still no better than 9-7 or 8-8. The Giants are in rebuilding mode but a lot of what happened last year can be attributed to an inexperienced offensive line and injuries. I want to say the Skins will be a challenge but again it is Washington and as long as Snyder is running the team they will be a mess.

The King of Keith
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#12 Posted on 9.4.04 0910.09
Reposted on: 9.4.11 0912.18
    Originally posted by evilwaldo
    Well, the Giants offense has always had success with pocket quarterbacks so it makes sense why they would be interested in Manning. If he has anywhere near the talent of his brother it would be an upgrade over their quarterback situation.

    I am not so worried this year about the division but next year should be rough. Although, the Cowboys are still no better than 9-7 or 8-8. The Giants are in rebuilding mode but a lot of what happened last year can be attributed to an inexperienced offensive line and injuries. I want to say the Skins will be a challenge but again it is Washington and as long as Snyder is running the team they will be a mess.





The Skins will be a force this year. Why? Two words. Joe Gibbs.
redsoxnation
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#13 Posted on 9.4.04 1820.38
Reposted on: 9.4.11 1821.03
This would be an epic disaster for Big Blue if they trade up to 1 for Manning. Collins is a serviceable QB, and that is enough in the NFL. Plus, Peyton is better than Eli, and taking a southerner to run a northeast team is always questionable. And, most importantly, the only reason to trade up to 1 is to ensure they get Gallery. I'd rather take the risk that Manning develops somewhere else than pass up a guy that can be put in the left tackle slot for the next decade and be All-Pro caliber. Plus, what good is drafting a QB when the O-Line sucks?
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#14 Posted on 10.4.04 0122.06
Reposted on: 10.4.11 0122.10
    Originally posted by VanillaSky
    Word from ESPN is that the Giants are trying to trade up for the #1 draft pick. As a Redskins fan, I can't say that I'd look forward to facing Manning twice a year if he turns out anything like his brother...


As in turns out like his brother, I assume you mean someone that has such an arrogance about himself that he tries to force throws when they're not there, even if it means throwing 3 INTs in the biggest game of his career, because, goddamnit, he's going to go to Harrison. Or maybe the type that calls teammates "idiots". Then he demands such a contract that the team won't be able to afford even a JV-level defense/special teams in the next few years. Oh yeah, Manning's such a fucking jewel. Those passing yards look pretty, though.
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#15 Posted on 10.4.04 0929.02
Reposted on: 10.4.11 0929.55
    Originally posted by kazhayashi81
    As in turns out like his brother, I assume you mean someone that has such an arrogance about himself that he tries to force throws when they're not there, even if it means throwing 3 INTs in the biggest game of his career, because, goddamnit, he's going to go to Harrison.


Rich Gannon threw five picks in Super Bowl XXVII. Brett Favre threw SIX in a playoff game against the Rams. Peyton's four picks in the AFC Championship game was hardly earth-shatteringly bad. And OF COURSE let's just COMPLETELY dismiss the first two playoff games this year.


    Originally posted by kazhayashi81
    Or maybe the type that calls teammates "idiots".


Called ONE teammate an idiot, after said teammate criticized his on national TV. Plus it was Vanderjagt, the KICKER, of all people. I didn't see 18 criticizing Vandergagt after his pathetic non-attempts to tackle Bethel Johnson or Dante Hall on kickoff returns last year.

    Originally posted by kazhayashi81
    Then he demands such a contract that the team won't be able to afford even a JV-level defense/special teams in the next few years.


Another COMPLETELY untrue statement. See this comment from Peter King on March 11:

I think for all the bashing the Colts have taken for the Peyton Manning contract, I don't find it all that awful, frankly. Assuming the Colts convert the $9 million and $10 million roster bonuses into pro-rated signing bonuses in years three and four of the contract -- highly likely as a cap aid because signing bonuses are pro-rated and roster bonuses must count in the league year they are incurred -- here are the cap figures in each of the seven years of the contract: 2004, $8.30 million; 2005, $8.43 million; 2006, $10.05 million; 2007, $7.69 million; 2008, $18.19 million; 2009, $20.69 million; 2010, $19.95 million. On the average, the first four years of the deal will count about nine percent of the Colts' cap. (By comparison, Washington left tackle Chris Samuels' salary this year is 11 percent of the Redskins' cap total.) The last three years will hurt, no question. They'll be 15 percent or more of the cap. I suppose that's awful, but I'm hearing too much about Manning's contract being the beginning of the end of Western Civilization.

If he would've forced the Colts to pay him based on the franchise tag his contract this year would've been $18 million, so he SAVED the team $10 million against the cap. Plus, isn't it the TEAM's fault for even letting him get to free agency? Who was the last superstar QB who even sniffed free agency?

(edited by JayJayDean on 10.4.04 0729)
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#16 Posted on 10.4.04 0951.11
Reposted on: 10.4.11 0952.17
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    This would be an epic disaster for Big Blue if they trade up to 1 for Manning. Collins is a serviceable QB, and that is enough in the NFL. Plus, Peyton is better than Eli, and taking a southerner to run a northeast team is always questionable. And, most importantly, the only reason to trade up to 1 is to ensure they get Gallery. I'd rather take the risk that Manning develops somewhere else than pass up a guy that can be put in the left tackle slot for the next decade and be All-Pro caliber. Plus, what good is drafting a QB when the O-Line sucks?


As a Giants fan, let me say first, Collins best days are behind him. Secondly, why not go after a QB with all the potential in the world, the pedigree of great QBs and with the talent that he has shown?
Why not take an Offensive lineman? How is Tony Mandarich doing these days? He was the last Lineman hyped this much.

And saying southerners cant run northern teams, I am guessing Mr Bradshaw and Mr Farve didnt fair too well north of the Mason-Dixon line.
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#17 Posted on 10.4.04 1037.10
Reposted on: 10.4.11 1044.14
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
      Originally posted by redsoxnation
      This would be an epic disaster for Big Blue if they trade up to 1 for Manning. Collins is a serviceable QB, and that is enough in the NFL. Plus, Peyton is better than Eli, and taking a southerner to run a northeast team is always questionable. And, most importantly, the only reason to trade up to 1 is to ensure they get Gallery. I'd rather take the risk that Manning develops somewhere else than pass up a guy that can be put in the left tackle slot for the next decade and be All-Pro caliber. Plus, what good is drafting a QB when the O-Line sucks?


    As a Giants fan, let me say first, Collins best days are behind him. Secondly, why not go after a QB with all the potential in the world, the pedigree of great QBs and with the talent that he has shown?
    Why not take an Offensive lineman? How is Tony Mandarich doing these days? He was the last Lineman hyped this much.

    And saying southerners cant run northern teams, I am guessing Mr Bradshaw and Mr Farve didnt fair too well north of the Mason-Dixon line.





Actually, the last linemen hyped like this were Boselli, Ogden and Pace, 2 have Super Bowl rings and the other anchored a line that went to 2 Conference title games. There is a better chance of Manning being Tim Couch than there is of Gallery being Mandarich. Considering Collins is a hot year/cold year type QB, if they give him the opportunity to play behind a line that could protect him, they could make the playoffs this year. If they draft Eli, they are waiting a few years to make a run, and even then they'll still have to go searching for someone to protect him. Now, if it was Peyton coming out, I'd consider trading up for him, but I've never been much of an Eli fan.
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#18 Posted on 10.4.04 1040.41
Reposted on: 10.4.11 1047.19
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    Now, if it was Peyton coming out, I'd consider trading up for him, but I've never been much of an Eli fan.


Well, fine and all, but that doesn't really mean he's not a phenomenal pro prospect that arguably had a better college career than Peyton did, considering the talent around him at Ole Miss was far below that around Peyton at Tennessee. Eli is a really special talent that I honestly can't see failing to become an All-Pro quarterback.
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#19 Posted on 10.4.04 1105.07
Reposted on: 10.4.11 1106.17
Originally posted by JayJayDean

Peyton's four picks in the AFC Championship game was hardly earth-shatteringly bad. And OF COURSE let's just COMPLETELY dismiss the first two playoff games this year.



Well I do dismiss the first playoff game because Denver would not have won against any team that day. The second game he was great. The Third game was terrible.

Peyton is a very good QB. Right now is he the 3rd best QB in the league. I would compare him to a smarter Drew Bledsoe. The problem with that is he has the same flaws as Bledsoe that you can distract him with with a rush (mainly up the middle), but he can read Defenses much faster that Drew ever could. The problem is that it is at this point in Bledsoe career (6 full season) that he went down hill.

The problem with he contract of Manning's if he does go down hill what are you doing to do with year 2008-10. If you have to cut him the cap it will be HUGE.

(edited by calvinh0560 on 10.4.04 1206)
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