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The 7 - Music - Kurt Cobain: 10 years ago? Already??
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Roy.
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#21 Posted on 6.4.04 1140.51
Reposted on: 6.4.11 1150.00
    Originally posted by DJ Ran
    FYI: The Filter song wasn't about Cobain, but was actually about that politician in (was it) Pennsylvania (I forget his name - I made my highball too strong) who killed himself on live TV. You may have seen him in "Bowling for Columbine" or one of a billion knockoffs of "Faces of Death".



Bud Dwyer. Pennsylvania State Treasurer accused of taking a whole bunch of money. Called a press conference, made sure that nobody was in the room above (so as to not hurt an innocent in case the bullet kept going), and blew his brains out on live TV. WPVI in Philadelphia showed it over and over after the live shot, and there was some controversey.

And Rich (the lead singer of Filter) gets really pissed off if you ask him if "Hey Man" was about Kurt.
StaggerLee
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#22 Posted on 6.4.04 1308.12
Reposted on: 6.4.11 1310.29
    Originally posted by The Amazing Salami
    I guess I should have clarified my thinking on the "best band" thing. Here's my list.

    According to Musical Talent, Listenability, IMHO. This is how I would rank the bands if music were experienced in a vacuum with no social connotation.
    1. Alice in Chains
    2. Soundgarden
    3. Pearl Jam
    4. Nirvana

    According to Influence, substance, cultural relevance, IMHO. This is how I would rank the bands as a graduate of the Class of 1996 - or through my experience and what my perceptions of the experiences of others(the only other way I know how).
    1. Nirvana
    2. Pearl Jam
    3. Alice in Chains
    4. Soundgarden


I find no real arguments with the first set of rankings, however when you come to the INFLUENCE, more bands today are sounding like Alice In Chains than all the other seattle area bands combined. While that may be because nobody would want to try to sound like PJ or Soundgarden, it should say at least SOMETHING for thier influence.
JayJayDean
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#23 Posted on 6.4.04 1420.00
Reposted on: 6.4.11 1425.15
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    I find no real arguments with the first set of rankings, however when you come to the INFLUENCE, more bands today are sounding like Alice In Chains than all the other seattle area bands combined. While that may be because nobody would want to try to sound like PJ or Soundgarden, it should say at least SOMETHING for thier influence.


Or is it possible that Alice in Chains were so much easier to copy than the other three bands? Godsmack might as well be called "Alice in Chains II".
astrobstrd
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#24 Posted on 6.4.04 1451.56
Reposted on: 6.4.11 1454.41
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
      Originally posted by StaggerLee
      I find no real arguments with the first set of rankings, however when you come to the INFLUENCE, more bands today are sounding like Alice In Chains than all the other seattle area bands combined. While that may be because nobody would want to try to sound like PJ or Soundgarden, it should say at least SOMETHING for thier influence.


    Or is it possible that Alice in Chains were so much easier to copy than the other three bands? Godsmack might as well be called "Alice in Chains II".


Godsmack is like Alice in Chains without all that "talent" baggage. I liked Pearl Jam and still do, to a degree, but it's been a steady decline since 10.
The King of Keith
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#25 Posted on 6.4.04 1554.11
Reposted on: 6.4.11 1555.10
I get pissed off when people declare Nirvana the greatest band of the 90's. Radiohead just shits all over them in style and substance. So does Soundgarden. So does Alice in Chains.

Radiohead was the band of the 90's and just may end up being the band of the 00's.

As for where I was when I heard about Cobain killing himself, I was at home, skipping school b/c I had a test and I was faking sick. I saw the story on the tv and thought "oh great, now I'm going to have to deal with all these idiots at school tomorrow talking about this".

I apologize if I offend anyone. I just really think that Nirvana may be the most overrated band of all time. Every time there's a poll about the greatest records, Nevermind for some reason always ends up in the top 5. That's crap.
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#26 Posted on 6.4.04 1705.36
Reposted on: 6.4.11 1708.42
Well i'm not going to be pretend to be a big grunge music expert or anything, but I was never impressed by their music. Sure they could've been a great influence but it doesn't really sadden me to hear about his anniversary. I have no sympathy for someone who took his own life. It's a cop out and pretty cowardly. He had all that money and fans who worshipped him and he just killed himself? Seems pretty pathetic to me.
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#27 Posted on 6.4.04 2046.57
Reposted on: 6.4.11 2048.09
Kurt Cobain ranks far down on my list of dead musicians that I wish had lived. Lennon, Hendrix, Buddy Holly. Hell, I'd bring Cash back for one more recording session before I even thought about Kurt.

My local rock station is going to play 24 hours of Nirvana starting tomorrow at midnight. I wasn't even aware the Nirvana had 4 hours worth of material, much less 24.

-Jag
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#28 Posted on 6.4.04 2054.40
Reposted on: 6.4.11 2059.01
    Originally posted by Jaguar
    Kurt Cobain ranks far down on my list of dead musicians that I wish had lived. Lennon, Hendrix, Buddy Holly. Hell, I'd bring Cash back for one more recording session before I even thought about Kurt.

    My local rock station is going to play 24 hours of Nirvana starting tomorrow at midnight. I wasn't even aware the Nirvana had 4 hours worth of material, much less 24.

    -Jag


You can catch "Smells like teen spirit" at 0900, 0945, 1030, etc.



uberlou
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#29 Posted on 6.4.04 2332.13
Reposted on: 6.4.11 2336.55
I don't remember where I was when I heard the news, but I was about 9 at the time so Nirvana wasn't really my thing either. I do have to side with people that say Nirvana's overrated. There are a couple people I know who are obsessed with Nirvana and Cobain, and I have to refrain from just shaking my head. Although at the same time, the music helped them out through really bad times, and i've never really had that same experience. It never really had any big impact over me. I've always seen Pearl Jam and Alice in Chains as the more influencial bands from that era.

No one's mentioned it yet, but I believe Nirvana's best work had to be the Unplugged performance. Their performances of "All Apologies" and "Man Who Sold the World" sends chills down my spine each time I listen to those songs.

At least out of Nirvana, we got the Foo Fighters.
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#30 Posted on 6.4.04 2344.37
Reposted on: 6.4.11 2344.40
I forget where I was when I found out... I think family room, watching MTV's coverage. Eh, it sucked, but I wasn't really going into mourning. I think his legacy was more symbolic... that and the endless string of even SHITTIER ripoffs.

Grubby, I'm just shocked you managed to somehow, COMPLETELY neglect Sweet 75.
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#31 Posted on 7.4.04 0134.42
Reposted on: 7.4.11 0134.46
Eh, I guess I'll be the only one who gives a shit then. For me, as cliched and stupid as it sounds, Cobain was the voice of a generation. A generation that had no hope left, not even the hope of uniting to confront the void. As the latest RS stated, he was passionate about dispassion.
I like Alice in Chains, but other than Layne being a junkie, what do the songs really say? Not a whole hell of a lot. The music was good, but not very far removed from the good metal of the day. The songs do have a tendency to run together as well.
Pearl Jam started with a bang, but are they saying or doing anything different than Neil Young? They are great musicians and Vedder is a brilliant lyricist, but they've kind of slipped into hippie, "noodling" territory.
Soundgarden was good, and Chris Cornell's voice owns and Kim Thayil is an amazing, often under-rated, guitarist.
Where Nirvana stands out for me, is that while their were plenty of songs about Curt's personal life and pain (Chronic ulcers, drug addiction, etc.) they often were open enough and well crafted enough to apply to anyone. The music ranged from the simple elegance of the Unplugged album, to the pop-punk of Nevermind, to the Albini-noise of In Utero, to the garage sound of Bleach, to the utter fun chaos of In Utero. I can think of only a handful of artists with the range that Cobain had. He could write the hooky pop jangle of Aneurysm and the manic insanity of Radio Friendly Unit Shifter.
I think Curt gets a lot of "He wasn't important" crap for a few reasons. First, people who enjoyed hair metal are pissed that he gets the rap for killing it. Second, he himself downplayed his own importance (depression will do that to you). Third, many people look for a happy message in their music, and write anything that isn't joyous as "mopey"
Zeruel
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#32 Posted on 7.4.04 0251.24
Reposted on: 7.4.11 0252.31
I can't listen to any Nirvana anymore. All the lyrics sound like cries for help.

"No, I don't have a gun. No, I don't have a gun..."

It's too eeire to listen to, at least for me.
Iago
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#33 Posted on 7.4.04 0312.26
Reposted on: 7.4.11 0317.15
Shit happens, people die. I didn't know the guy, so I wont cry when he dies.

I was eleven, and wasn't into music. Not really. Though Nevermind was the first album I bought, a year or so later, second was Rage Against the Machine's Evil Empire. First one I was given? A Lords of Acid cd, no I can't remember the name, a little bit after I got Nevermind.

Do I still listen to them? Yeah, are they more relevant now that I am 21? I have no idea. We all go through phases, but frankly I've pieced together an electic mix of musical likes. And it started at Nirvana.

It did speak to me, but then I was put on Zoloft a few years after Cobain's death (not related issues I assure you). But then a lot of things have spoken to me, where people wouldn't think so.

I mean hell as a young honkey growing up in Vallejo, CA, I abso-friggin'-lutely loved Doggystyle, something I consider one of the seminal albums of the 90's.

Buuuut... let's get back to Cobain and Nirvana, shall we? Ahhh grunge... funny how I got into it after I moved to the Northwest. But let's not get all nostalgic. I'm not some great critic of music. I mean I was, and still am, a nerd then, so maybe I could never latch onto the outsider in the way that Cobain and most musician's present it. But being the outsider was something I could relate to overall.

I do feel comfortable saying that overall there was a less technical feel to Nirvana. It seemed less polished, less refined to me. That's what drew me to it, that's what the genre backhanded the industry (and pop music) with. Looking back I see some things I didn't then, I didn't latch onto the genre like a life preserver some people of my generation, and some Gen-Xers did.

I didn't, no scratch that... I couldn't cry for the man, looking back on it I could see it being a tragedy, but... at the same time I couldn't help but see it as stupid, and an affirmation of my future existentialist leanings. As stupid as the mourning for someone you didn't know. Whatever one saw what his impact was it ended because of suicide, or murder, or whatever. It would almost fit one of his songs. (And that ain't irony.)

But, whatever. Take it or leave it. Like them or not, or whatever. You have your opinions, and keep 'em.

He's dead. And that's how it is. Wont defend him, wont defend his music. I liked it, can't think of every reason I did, I do, but hey sometimes these things happens. Then he proved himself to not be the messiah people thought, and he offed himself. I've said everything I wished to on the matter.

edit: fixed a few glaring errors, missed the rest.

(edited by Iago on 7.4.04 0114)
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#34 Posted on 7.4.04 0912.25
Reposted on: 7.4.11 0912.56
I remember the next morning after Kurt died I was driving to school and the local rock station played Memory Of, which ends with Kurt screaming, "No I don't have a gun." As the song was fading out the DJ chimes in, "I guess he lied." Pretty sorry and made this 16-year-old more than a little pissed off at the time.

Speaking of the local rock station...one positive I can give Nirvana (and I absolutely love them, always have)is that they helped transform rock radio (at least in my locality) when Nevermind came out, if only for a little while.

KISR went from a constant rotation of Bell Biv Devoe (Poison), George Michael (faith), Janet Jackson (Miss You Much), etc (1988-1991) to playing Smells Like Teen Spirit, Man in the Box, Jeremy, Alive, Black Hole Sun, etc (1991-1994) before going back to the crap.

There hasn't been a band, or music scene, that changed mainstream rock radio that much since then (and no, nu-metal didn't change it at all, at least around here)...and I don't think the "scene" would have made that impact without the success of "SLTS" and Nevermind.
wmatistic
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#35 Posted on 7.4.04 0926.06
Reposted on: 7.4.11 0927.21
    Originally posted by astrobstrd
    Eh, I guess I'll be the only one who gives a shit then. For me, as cliched and stupid as it sounds, Cobain was the voice of a generation. A generation that had no hope left, not even the hope of uniting to confront the void. As the latest RS stated, he was passionate about dispassion.


In what way was he the voice of a generation, and more importantly, in what way did my(I assume you mean Gen X) generation have "no hope left"?

I liked Nirvana, but I don't agree at all with your view of that generation. I knew some people who were all into the depressing attitude of which you speak, but the bulk of the people my age and older(considering I was on the back end of Gen X) weren't like that. We liked the music but didn't LIVE it.

Though in looking through your bio it seems you are "officially" Gen Y or whatever they called it so maybe it's different for that group.
JoshMann
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#36 Posted on 7.4.04 0950.19
Reposted on: 7.4.11 0952.02
    Originally posted by wmatistic
    I knew some people who were all into the depressing attitude of which you speak, but the bulk of the people my age and older(considering I was on the back end of Gen X) weren't like that. We liked the music but didn't LIVE it.


Exactly. I was 19 and in university at the time, and the general concensus amongst my friends was just "Oh shit, Kurt shot himself" and that was IT. No vigil, no copycating....maybe the stray grunge chick a week later who wore the big picture t-shirt, and that was the extent of it.

And we were all fans, mind you.

(edited by Blanket Jackson on 7.4.04 1050)
astrobstrd
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#37 Posted on 7.4.04 1059.02
Reposted on: 7.4.11 1100.33
    Originally posted by Blanket Jackson
      Originally posted by wmatistic
      I knew some people who were all into the depressing attitude of which you speak, but the bulk of the people my age and older(considering I was on the back end of Gen X) weren't like that. We liked the music but didn't LIVE it.


    Exactly. I was 19 and in university at the time, and the general concensus amongst my friends was just "Oh shit, Kurt shot himself" and that was IT. No vigil, no copycating....maybe the stray grunge chick a week later who wore the big picture t-shirt, and that was the extent of it.

    And we were all fans, mind you.

    (edited by Blanket Jackson on 7.4.04 1050)


I was thinking more the essence of attitude. I know that no one person can literally represent everyone in a generation. What I meant was that he was an artist who looked into the abyss, and instead of raging, was content with it staring back, until it consumed him. If you don't see how this relates to "Gen-X" and "Gen-Y" I suggest you look at voting records. I also was referring more to the music and his life, not simply his death.
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#38 Posted on 7.4.04 1102.14
Reposted on: 7.4.11 1102.40
I guess the reason I couldnt really get into the whole Nirvana/Kurt's a genius thing is because, simply, I wasnt depressed. I have a happy life, I dont sit around and complain about simple shit, and how the world isnt exactly how I want it. But, I guess if thats the way people are, then they need something to hold on to, so be it.
tarnish
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#39 Posted on 7.4.04 1148.48
Reposted on: 7.4.11 1155.48
I know that not everyone can agree on whether Kurt was a "good" guitar player or songwriter or musician in general or whether or not Nirvana was even a good band.

But I don't think you can deny the impact they had.

You could argue, of course, that Pearl Jam would have made it without Nirvana, and same for Alice in Chains (who were getting press in the hair metal mags as early as 1989), Soundgarden (ditto), and other bands from the Seattle "scene."

But Nirvana, for whatever reason, became the nexus for a renaissance in popular music. Maybe it was the tradition they came from (post-punk vs. Pearl Jam's arena rock, Soundgarden's Sabbath roots, or AIC's metal vs. southern rock). Maybe it was Kurt himself, or his songs.

Kurt's death didn't affect me too much. I was just in the process of leaving first-year university in Virginia and was just so happy to be going home that not too much was going to get me down. But my younger brother (3+ years younger) was totally devastated. He was one of those kids who spent high school using Nirvana as therapy. We may not have many of them here, but if you ever meet one, you'll very quickly realize that Nirvana was incredibly important to some people. And I think you'd find the number of them out there to be quite shocking.

Personal musical tastes aside, I personally feel that the biggest thing Nirvana did was make it OKAY to have a band that didn't sound like Julliard-trained automatons. I was a huge hair metal fan in 1989; it wasn't until Faith No More's Epic that I opened my eyes and looked past Hair Metal, Metallica and their ilk, and classic rock. Pearl Jam (and Mother Love Bone before them), Soundgarden, AIC, Screaming Trees, etc., all had some sort of musical pedigree or tie to the mainstream. And Circus, Metal Edge, and Hit Parader, had no problem covering them. But what about non-niche magazines like SPIN and Rolling Stone? When Nirvana hit, the music industry had to do a double-take. There had been bands like Nirvana before, as has been well established in this thread. But none of them had ever made it big enough to make the mainstream take notice. And Nirvana got big enough, quick enough, that the mainstream had to do something or risk losing the chance to make all kinds of money off of them.

I think the big thing for me was seeing The New Music's (best music magazine show you've never seen) retrospective yesterday on MuchMusic and seeing them talk to modern bands like Nickelback, Linkin Park, Staind, and others who cite Nirvana as the reason they felt comfortable enough to pick up an instrument and express all the things they didn't know how to express any other way. Nirvana made it okay to be disaffected and depressed. Maybe for some that band was Smashing Pumpkins or Radiohead or even Metallica (or Joy Division, Depeche Mode, it's always been around). But for millions in the early 90s that was Nirvana.

Of course, ten years later we've got a plethora of really LOUD and HEAVY bands doing a modern take on shoe-gazing, but I tend to fault the industry for trying to "make" another Nirvana every chance they get


(edited by tarnish on 7.4.04 1351)
The Amazing Salami
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#40 Posted on 7.4.04 1230.10
Reposted on: 7.4.11 1230.31
    Originally posted by tarnish
    I tend to fault the industry for trying to "make" another Nirvana every chance they get


    (edited by tarnish on 7.4.04 1351)


That's dead on accurate. An A&R guy out of Nashville told me (this was back in 1993) that all labels are looking for the next Nirvana. But not the way you might think. They're not looking for the next band that is DIFFERENT than everything else but still manages to make a splash because of their talent. What he meant was they are literally looking for the next Nirvana, as in, any band that can sound, look, act just like them so labels can feed off the Nirvana craze.

From reading Journals, I think maybe this was part of Kurt's whole self-loathing ethos in the end. He railed against the homogenization of music by big business...and succeeded in creating this whole new thing...but in the end, though HE wasn't homogenized, he was the one being cloned by big business. Everything he never wanted to be.
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