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The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Somalia Redux? Register and log in to post!
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It's False
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#1 Posted on 31.3.04 1329.39
Reposted on: 31.3.11 1330.08
Five Civilian Contractors Killed, Bodies Dragged Through Streets (story.news.yahoo.com)

Needless to say, we've all been down this stomach-turning road before. And we all know where it led weeks later.

First of all, I hope this gives someone a clue that just maybe our presence in Iraq isn't wanted by the Iraqi people. I've got a conservative roommate calling the people "ingrates" and "terrorists", but I'm more with the notion that they simply want to be left alone.

Second, is this a signal that it's time to withdraw all Americans? June 30: hand over Iraq to the people and completely clear out to never speak of it again? This is the sort of incident that sways public opinion against war and upon learning of this news, I would have to bet on there being more anti-war sentiment.

Where does the coalition go after this setback?
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Von Maestro
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#2 Posted on 31.3.04 1349.37
Reposted on: 31.3.11 1352.06
Your answer to the barbaric actions of people loyal to Saddam Hussein is to cut & run???

I honestly do not know what to saw to that. I'm stunned...
Grimis
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#3 Posted on 31.3.04 1431.04
Reposted on: 31.3.11 1437.46
    Originally posted by It's False
    First of all, I hope this gives someone a clue that just maybe our presence in Iraq isn't wanted by the Iraqi people. I've got a conservative roommate calling the people "ingrates" and "terrorists", but I'm more with the notion that they simply want to be left alone.
I guess that's why the Gallup poll conducted recently of the Iraqi people welcomed our presence there and were greatful we ousted Saddam Hussiein

    Originally posted by It's False
    Second, is this a signal that it's time to withdraw all Americans?

1. We are not France
2. Clinton is not President.

If we cut and run now, the situation will become worse and not better

    Originally posted by It's False
    This is the sort of incident that sways public opinion against war and upon learning of this news, I would have to bet on there being more anti-war sentiment.
So what? Tne anti-war left is right and we should've left the Butcher of Baghdad in power?
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#4 Posted on 31.3.04 1433.20
Reposted on: 31.3.11 1439.10
We can't cut and run now. But the Bush administration needs to be more upfront that everything isn't rosy. We must work to bring stability and an environment in which thy can decide their future in peace. It's obvious we knew how to win the war but weren't prepared foer the "peace".
Grimis
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#5 Posted on 31.3.04 1500.24
Reposted on: 31.3.11 1500.35
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    It's obvious we knew how to win the war but weren't prepared foer the "peace".
Which is the exact thing I was worried anout 14 months ago.
DrDirt
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#6 Posted on 31.3.04 1637.29
Reposted on: 31.3.11 1642.24
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by DrDirt
      It's obvious we knew how to win the war but weren't prepared foer the "peace".
    Which is the exact thing I was worried anout 14 months ago.


Thanks for the love Grimis. However in a previous post you asked if we should have left the "Butcher of Baghdad in? Trouble is we said we didn't remove him because he was that but because he had WMDs. I am glad he's gone but lets not go down that path again as it is a fruitless direction.
It's False
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#7 Posted on 31.3.04 2024.48
Reposted on: 31.3.11 2025.06
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by DrDirt
      It's obvious we knew how to win the war but weren't prepared foer the "peace".
    Which is the exact thing I was worried anout 14 months ago.


That seems to be the big issue. We've won the war. Saddam is out of power. Objective completed. However, there was a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach that the Iraqi people would immediately turn on us afterwards and scenes like AMERICAN CIVILIANS getting dragged through the streets like slaughtered animals don't ease that feeling. More coalition soldiers are dying during the PEACEKEEPING process. It's looking more and more like a "pick your poison" case, in that we could have either let Saddam stay in power or have...this.

It just seems like the war was a success, but peacekeeping efforts are leaning towards the direction of failure.
rockdotcom_2.0
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#8 Posted on 31.3.04 2250.26
Reposted on: 31.3.11 2250.50
First we cannot leave Iraq util the job is done. For better or worse we are stuck. Plus if were to leave today Iraq would probably be in a full civil war by Sunday.

On the other hand, Ive been thinking, what if after we turn over power to the Iraqis in June 30, the next day the council asks us to leave? What would we do?

And comparing Somalia in 1993 to Iraq today is unfair. But still if you want to blast Clinton fine, but only use one barrel, save the other one for Reagan in 1983 in Beirut.
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#9 Posted on 1.4.04 0820.30
Reposted on: 1.4.11 0821.47
    Originally posted by rockdotcom_2.0
    First we cannot leave Iraq util the job is done. For better or worse we are stuck. Plus if were to leave today Iraq would probably be in a full civil war by Sunday.

    On the other hand, Ive been thinking, what if after we turn over power to the Iraqis in June 30, the next day the council asks us to leave? What would we do?

    And comparing Somalia in 1993 to Iraq today is unfair. But still if you want to blast Clinton fine, but only use one barrel, save the other one for Reagan in 1983 in Beirut.


We are turning governance over to them but they must essentially get our permission to breathe which is how it should be in the beginning.

Vietnem would be a better analogy. We were winning the war but didn't know what to do with hearts and minds and were unable to work the South towards a democracy. It's not a geat analogy but better than Somalia.

Most Iraqi's do support what has happened. But it only takes a small percenatge to make this mess.
Grimis
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#10 Posted on 1.4.04 1452.46
Reposted on: 1.4.11 1453.45
Besides, anybody who wants to pull out of Iraq should see what happens when terrorists go unchcecked(for some time) in Africa.
Roy.
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#11 Posted on 1.4.04 2211.47
Reposted on: 1.4.11 2213.59
I'm wondering if anybody realizes who these "contractors" were/are.

I was stupid enough to think that they were oil men, or somebody sent to rebuild the country. The men killed were all ex-special forces: one Army Ranger and three Navy SEALs, I believe. The US Government hired them to do some security work, since the military has a manpower problem. I don't see a problem with that, but the government said today that they don't keep track of the U.S. civilian deaths, so that means that in addition to the close to 600 U.S. Military deaths, there could be dozens of other "contactor" deaths.

http://abcnews.go.com/ sections/WNT/World/private_armies_040401- 1.html

That's 15,000 contractors in Iraq. More than troops from the UK, and all in harms way, some of them in more dangerous places than US sponsored troops.

I think Saddam was an evil man, and had to go, but as the war drags on (and as one of my very good friends has been out of contact with me for several months since she left for Iraq) I begin to wonder if it's all worth it.
dwaters
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#12 Posted on 2.4.04 0824.16
Reposted on: 2.4.11 0824.25
This "dragging bodies through the streets" thing just blows me away.
The Boston and New York papers actually had photos of the bodies hanging from the bridge as people cheered.
One headline read "Savages". Not very impartial, but how else can you describe this?
I just don't even get the mentality, no matter how much the victims are hated. They are (were) human beings.
Maybe I'm idealistic, but I'd like to think if Saddam and Osama themselves were caught riding in an SUV anywhere in the US, the American people wouldn't resort to THIS.
At least in Somalia they were soldiers--these were CIVILIANS.
Where's the outrage? (from us?)
More people were angry at Janet Jackson for "nipplegate" than this.
Did this type of thing happen in Vietnam? Anywhere?
I never read or post in the politics forum, but I am so sick over this I had to post something.
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#13 Posted on 2.4.04 1454.32
Reposted on: 2.4.11 1459.07
    Originally posted by dwaters
    This "dragging bodies through the streets" thing just blows me away.
    The Boston and New York papers actually had photos of the bodies hanging from the bridge as people cheered.
    One headline read "Savages". Not very impartial, but how else can you describe this?
    I just don't even get the mentality, no matter how much the victims are hated. They are (were) human beings.
    Maybe I'm idealistic, but I'd like to think if Saddam and Osama themselves were caught riding in an SUV anywhere in the US, the American people wouldn't resort to THIS.
    At least in Somalia they were soldiers--these were CIVILIANS.
    Where's the outrage? (from us?)
    More people were angry at Janet Jackson for "nipplegate" than this.
    Did this type of thing happen in Vietnam? Anywhere?
    I never read or post in the politics forum, but I am so sick over this I had to post something.


Bad things happened in Nam also. As opposed to Janet, people are staring to accept this sort of thing as a way of life. It's either that or go insane.
dwaters
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#14 Posted on 5.4.04 1338.57
Reposted on: 5.4.11 1339.03
I guess you're right. It sucks, but it's life.

When I was a kid, I used to wonder why the news anchors would talk about kids dying in a fire, then move on to the weather without looking shaken up or even crying.
I guess if we let every death we hear about bum us out, nobody would leave the house.

"It'll be partly cloudy, the Red Sox lost, and five die in a plane crash, but first this message from the local car dealer".
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#15 Posted on 5.4.04 1424.23
Reposted on: 5.4.11 1424.57
    Originally posted by dwaters
    I guess you're right. It sucks, but it's life.

    When I was a kid, I used to wonder why the news anchors would talk about kids dying in a fire, then move on to the weather without looking shaken up or even crying.
    I guess if we let every death we hear about bum us out, nobody would leave the house.

    "It'll be partly cloudy, the Red Sox lost, and five die in a plane crash, but first this message from the local car dealer".


Dwaters, I appreciate the sarcasm but it is reality. It is a mechanism to keep you from going insane. I grew up during the height of Vietnam and every week in Life magazine they devoted several pages to pictures of those killed in Nam. You become numb. Until it hits close to home.

People like myself aren't surprised by what is going on as there is a couple of hundred years of history of what happens in these situations. I am deeply saddened, especially with the news of the latest eight deaths. But I wonder what we expected.

We freed them from Saddam but we are still occupiers, no matter how pure our motives may be. These people have a long history of broken promises and outright lies being perpetrated on them. I am more surprised that more of this hasn't happened.

I hope our leaders have a plan to get this under control, bring stability, and get the hell out with the situation better than before. Sadly, I doubt it.
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