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16.4.07 2001
The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Why does Rhea County exist? Register and log in to post!
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drjayphd
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#1 Posted on 18.3.04 1702.13
Reposted on: 18.3.11 1702.43
Tennessee county wants to ban gays... from existing there (cnn.com)

The county commissioners passed a request to the state legislature to amend state law so they can charge gays with crimes against nature. Actual quote, from commissioner J.C. Fugate: "We need to keep them out of here."

Where in the BLUE HELL did they ever think they could do this? They... uhm... can't, right?

(Oh, and some context as to where this county leans: This is where the Scopes monkey trial was held.)

(edited by drjayphd on 18.3.04 1803)
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Gavintzu
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#2 Posted on 18.3.04 2058.13
Reposted on: 18.3.11 2058.48
When I saw this story, I thought to myself "this is just a county being the real life equivalent of a troll."

Take an unreasonable position and blow it completely out of proportion just to see the reaction it brings. The story has gone national, and if the gay rights movement bites, it should be good for a week or two of headlines and controversy.

I imagine the county commissioners are a group of bible-thumpin' good ol' boys who are chuckling about the ruckus they be raising. Assholes.


redsoxnation
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#3 Posted on 18.3.04 2112.52
Reposted on: 18.3.11 2112.52
If you need another reason to dislike Lincoln: He fought a War to keep this region in the Union.
Gugs
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#4 Posted on 18.3.04 2157.52
Reposted on: 18.3.11 2157.58
    Originally posted by drjayphd
    This is where the Scopes monkey trial was held.


It wasn't just held there; they hold an annual festival in commemoration of it.
Big Bad
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#5 Posted on 19.3.04 0154.35
Reposted on: 19.3.11 0155.04
Homosexuality has been observed in animal species as well, so it's ignorant to say that being gay isn't at least somewhat "natural."

Then again, I don't expect these idiots to be able to read anything other than bumper stickers, annual Tennessee Vols football guides and The Dummies' Guide To The Bible anyway.
StaggerLee
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#6 Posted on 19.3.04 1537.17
Reposted on: 19.3.11 1537.20
Not that I am defending thier proposed ban on gays, BUT...

Isnt it up to the people who actually live there to determine what laws are passed in thier own community? No matter how retarded they may seem, if the majority of the community supports this, isnt that thier right?
TheBucsFan
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#7 Posted on 19.3.04 1625.47
Reposted on: 19.3.11 1625.58
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    Not that I am defending thier proposed ban on gays, BUT...

    Isnt it up to the people who actually live there to determine what laws are passed in thier own community? No matter how retarded they may seem, if the majority of the community supports this, isnt that thier right?



Constitutionality has nothing to do with public opinion. If a majority of the county's population thinks murder should be legal, that doesn't make it any less in violation of constituional rights.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 19.3.04 1725)
calvinh0560
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#8 Posted on 19.3.04 1709.23
Reposted on: 19.3.11 1709.37
Constitutionality a town has every right to pass a law that makes murder legal. It is then up to the courts to decided if that law is legal under the constitution. While murder and baning gays are extreme cases will never become law. A town has every right to pass any law it see fit until a court has said that it is unconstitutional.
beefncheddar
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#9 Posted on 19.3.04 1742.33
Reposted on: 19.3.11 1746.39
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    Homosexuality has been observed in animal species as well, so it's ignorant to say that being gay isn't at least somewhat "natural."

    Then again, I don't expect these idiots to be able to read anything other than bumper stickers, annual Tennessee Vols football guides and The Dummies' Guide To The Bible anyway.



Uh, some animals eat their young. Does that mean I can cook my 2-year-old and claim that it's "at least somewhat natural?"
ThreepMe
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#10 Posted on 19.3.04 1745.40
Reposted on: 19.3.11 1747.12
    Originally posted by beefncheddar
      Originally posted by Big Bad
      Homosexuality has been observed in animal species as well, so it's ignorant to say that being gay isn't at least somewhat "natural."

      Then again, I don't expect these idiots to be able to read anything other than bumper stickers, annual Tennessee Vols football guides and The Dummies' Guide To The Bible anyway.



    Uh, some animals eat their young. Does that mean I can cook my 2-year-old and claim that it's "at least somewhat natural?"


Oh yeah, because that makes so much sense.

When mixed with 2 ounces of common sense (that people conveniently forget when they want to blast something they don't agree with)

You get:

Gays don't hurt other people or anythign else for that matter...

Eating a child hurts the child...

It's not rocket science.
DrDirt
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#11 Posted on 19.3.04 1807.07
Reposted on: 19.3.11 1807.39
    Originally posted by calvinh0560
    Constitutionality a town has every right to pass a law that makes murder legal. It is then up to the courts to decided if that law is legal under the constitution. While murder and baning gays are extreme cases will never become law. A town has every right to pass any law it see fit until a court has said that it is unconstitutional.


No governmental body, under the constitution, may enact legislation superceeding or contradicting federal law. Yes it will head to the courts but your county attorney has the responsibilty to say, "People, you can't do that." Unless you want to grandstand and tie up already overworked, understaffed courts.
drjayphd
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#12 Posted on 19.3.04 1949.48
Reposted on: 19.3.11 1951.16
Well, they unanimously voted to say never mind (contracostatimes.com). Oh, and that it was all about same-sex marriage.

Anyone who had "county equivalent of a troll" in the pool, please report to the pay windah.
AWArulz
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#13 Posted on 19.3.04 2216.41
Reposted on: 19.3.11 2216.59
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    Not that I am defending thier proposed ban on gays, BUT...

    Isnt it up to the people who actually live there to determine what laws are passed in thier own community? No matter how retarded they may seem, if the majority of the community supports this, isnt that thier right?



Stagger, I think this goes right along with the gay marriage thing. I don't think we can have a local authority abridge a state or federal law. Obviously, as I learned on Seinfeld, there's nothing wrong with being all happy and to "kick 'em out" or whatever the guy said, would abridge their civil rights. And that's a federal deal, so the state can't overwrite it. Kind of like the same thing the president is proposing for the sanctity of marriage amendment - and if it passes, it will have the same rule of law. But I wouldn't hold yer breath or anything on that one.
ges7184
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#14 Posted on 19.3.04 2258.56
Reposted on: 19.3.11 2259.01
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    If you need another reason to dislike Lincoln: He fought a War to keep this region in the Union.


Let's see, take the view of about 12 people and transcend that view upon a whole region. Yep, that there shor is fair! I shor wished weez could be more like you'uns in them there Yankee states, all sofisticated and stuff!

Nag
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#15 Posted on 20.3.04 2004.38
Reposted on: 20.3.11 2005.10
    Originally posted by ThreepMe
      Originally posted by beefncheddar
        Originally posted by Big Bad
        Homosexuality has been observed in animal species as well, so it's ignorant to say that being gay isn't at least somewhat "natural."

        Then again, I don't expect these idiots to be able to read anything other than bumper stickers, annual Tennessee Vols football guides and The Dummies' Guide To The Bible anyway.



      Uh, some animals eat their young. Does that mean I can cook my 2-year-old and claim that it's "at least somewhat natural?"


    Oh yeah, because that makes so much sense.

    When mixed with 2 ounces of common sense (that people conveniently forget when they want to blast something they don't agree with)

    You get:

    Gays don't hurt other people or anythign else for that matter...

    Eating a child hurts the child...

    It's not rocket science.


Buuuuut, if you are going to use the argument that there are gay pigeons, therefore homosexuality is acceptable in human society, then sorry, common sense is on the side of BeefNChedder. There are no rules in the animal kingdom now. Nor can you use a line item veto in nature for political purposes. It is as it is, black and white.
Nenz
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#16 Posted on 20.3.04 2031.09
Reposted on: 20.3.11 2032.36
I think the point is that the county wants to ban gays from living there as it is a crime against nature. But homosexuality exists in the animal kingdom, so to say it against nature is wrong.

That is not so say that because it exists in nature it is necessarily right (ie because some animals eat their young doesn't mean it is right for humans to do so). But the county's argument is not valid.
Nag
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#17 Posted on 21.3.04 0708.02
Reposted on: 21.3.11 0708.51
They are not saying it is a crime against nature, they are saying it's a crime against religion. Which serves the function of making us feel guilt about what is in our nature.
OlFuzzyBastard
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#18 Posted on 21.3.04 1055.06
Reposted on: 21.3.11 1056.15
    Originally posted by Nag
    They are not saying it is a crime against nature, they are saying it's a crime against religion. Which serves the function of making us feel guilt about what is in our nature.


    Originally posted by CNN.com
    Rhea County commissioners took about three minutes to retreat from a request to amend state law so the county can charge homosexuals with crimes against nature. The Tuesday measure passed 8-0.
Nag
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#19 Posted on 21.3.04 1119.06
Reposted on: 21.3.11 1121.15
Good one, usually I'm sharper then that. Yeah so you got me on a technicality, that technicality that I didn't read the first paragraph carefully. Yet, I think we all know what THEY mean by 'nature', at least I interpret it as something a little different than Darwinism, so you haven't quite killed me yet.
ThreepMe
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#20 Posted on 21.3.04 1226.50
Reposted on: 21.3.11 1226.52
    Originally posted by Nag
      Originally posted by ThreepMe
        Originally posted by beefncheddar
          Originally posted by Big Bad
          Homosexuality has been observed in animal species as well, so it's ignorant to say that being gay isn't at least somewhat "natural."

          Then again, I don't expect these idiots to be able to read anything other than bumper stickers, annual Tennessee Vols football guides and The Dummies' Guide To The Bible anyway.



        Uh, some animals eat their young. Does that mean I can cook my 2-year-old and claim that it's "at least somewhat natural?"


      Oh yeah, because that makes so much sense.

      When mixed with 2 ounces of common sense (that people conveniently forget when they want to blast something they don't agree with)

      You get:

      Gays don't hurt other people or anythign else for that matter...

      Eating a child hurts the child...

      It's not rocket science.


    Buuuuut, if you are going to use the argument that there are gay pigeons, therefore homosexuality is acceptable in human society, then sorry, common sense is on the side of BeefNChedder. There are no rules in the animal kingdom now. Nor can you use a line item veto in nature for political purposes. It is as it is, black and white.


You're misleading the flow of this discussion...

Let's take it down the path that it is actually taking...

You say:"...if you are going to use the argument that there are gay pigeons, therefore homosexuality is acceptable in human society..."

First off, no one said anything about:

Homosexuality exists in nature = acceptability in human society

Acceptability in human nature is a huge brush you're painting with there. It is not justified with one simple statement such as "exists in nature."

Here is the context of the debate that was taken to illogical extremes to misguide the actual flow of logic...

It was started as: Homosexuality is unnatural

Then it went to: Not necessarily, homosexuality is present in nature.

Then, and here's the illogical extreme, it went to: well, baby eating happens in nature, can I do that then?

First off, no one said that just because it happens in nature means that we get to do something. The second point in the debate was only to do debunk, through a direct illustration, the first point (which it actually accomplishes)

The third point does not even address the first point at all. It just tries to debunk the second point by bringing in an extreme situation that had very little to do with the context of the debate at hand. The only connection was "examples through nature." NOT "Is homosexuality natural or present in nature."

This is what is known as an illogical extreme. It is used by people to misguide the topic to some slightly connected tangent without actually discussing the topic.

Bad debaters and shady lawyers uses this technique all the time when they wish to use smokescreens and to divert a losing battle into the realm of silliness.

And you are taking the tangent to another level by saying, "...if you are going to use the argument that there are gay pigeons, therefore homosexuality is acceptable in human society..."

It looks similar to the original debate, but it is not the same discussion.
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