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20.11.07 1709
The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Is John Kerry going to be the next prez?
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Von Maestro
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#41 Posted on 12.3.04 0845.50
Reposted on: 12.3.11 0847.00
    Originally posted by Jakegnosis
    First of all, Flea, he didn't throw his medals. Medals are awards you recieve for specific acts of valor and bravery. He tossed his combat ribbons, which are what you receive just for showing up and participating like everyone else.


How do you feel about the fact that he threw someone else's "combat ribbons" in protest & not his own...?
StaggerLee
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#42 Posted on 12.3.04 0903.45
Reposted on: 12.3.11 0905.54
    Originally posted by Blanket Jackson
    Have you ever actually tried to apply for a work visa in Canada? If you did, you'd realize it's too much of a beurocratic pain in the ass to be easy.


Ah yes, and as we all know, terrorists always apply for working visas when they are planning on smuggling dirty bombs into the nation.


As far as Canada goes, I really could care less that they think our government is run incompetantly. BigBad, America didnt have SUPPORT following 9/11, it had the worlds SYMPATHY. If we were SUPPORTED, none of the WMD debate would be flowing and nobody would be thinking twice about Iraq.

Living next door to the sole remaining superpower must be a very comforting thing. I mean, you can basically do what you like, and no there wont be an invasion on your nation. No need to thank us though, we built ourselves up for our own protection.

The fact that you would even bring up the "doesnt it bother you that the world doesnt like your leader" argument is humorous, because to tell you the truth, I could give a Rat's ass what other nations thought of our government. As long as our government it providing the appropriate services to me and my fellow citizens, your opinion of who is running it really doesnt effect me one way or the other.

ON the Kerry issue, I think it is wrong for a high profile person, to trump up the fact that he is a decorated war hero, to be the same guy that came back and was undermining the efforts. Granted, the war was a losing proposition from the get go, but, if he thought it was so bad, DONT TALK ABOUT YOUR TIME THERE in order to get the image out that you are a brave warrior. Simply say, I did my time, served my nation when called and in hindsight, didnt support our mission there.
ThreepMe
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#43 Posted on 12.3.04 0939.41
Reposted on: 12.3.11 0942.17
"ON the Kerry issue, I think it is wrong for a high profile person, to trump up the fact that he is a decorated war hero, to be the same guy that came back and was undermining the efforts. Granted, the war was a losing proposition from the get go, but, if he thought it was so bad, DONT TALK ABOUT YOUR TIME THERE in order to get the image out that you are a brave warrior. Simply say, I did my time, served my nation when called and in hindsight, didnt support our mission there."

I think it's wrong for someone who has never been in the thick of battle, has seen the horrors of war, had to save people's lives on a daily basis or had to kill others not only for survival but because you are ordered to to pass judgment on someone who did. Especially on this issue.

It's real easy for those of us sitting back in our cushy lifestyles to pass judgment on others.

I once had had the privilege to run a private screening of Saving Private Ryan for a squad of Desert Storm vets. I had already seen it a few times and to a degree was desensitized to the violence. But I had this notion that it was a big deal and was very important. I had no idea how much of a "big deal" it was until I saw several fully grown soldiers have to walk out, some crying, and others visibly shaken.

So, until you have served time in a losing war where thousands of your fellow soldiers are dying and you are order to do even half the things Kerry was told to do don't pretend that you can even hold a smidgen of a candle to him. Let alone "think" that he is "wrong."

You have no idea.
The Amazing Salami
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#44 Posted on 12.3.04 0943.14
Reposted on: 12.3.11 0943.17
I think the fact that he went to Vietnam and fought for his country DESPITE the fact that he didn't support the nation's actions makes it more heroic.
JoshMann
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#45 Posted on 12.3.04 0958.43
Reposted on: 12.3.11 0959.01
(deleted by CRZ on 12.3.04 1216)
AWArulz
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#46 Posted on 12.3.04 1015.31
Reposted on: 12.3.11 1015.49
    Originally posted by The Amazing Salami
    I think the fact that he went to Vietnam and fought for his country DESPITE the fact that he didn't support the nation's actions makes it more heroic.


ah - but we don't have any data on that, now do we? I give him props for going, in the same way I give Benedict Arnold props for fighting in the Early Revolutionary war.
wmatistic
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#47 Posted on 12.3.04 1017.21
Reposted on: 12.3.11 1017.38
    Originally posted by ThreepMe
    I think it's wrong for someone who has never been in the thick of battle, has seen the horrors of war, had to save people's lives on a daily basis or had to kill others not only for survival but because you are ordered to to pass judgment on someone who did. Especially on this issue.

    It's real easy for those of us sitting back in our cushy lifestyles to pass judgment on others.

    Let alone "think" that he is "wrong."

    You have no idea.



Ok then, my father was here for a visit last weekend. He's a die hard democrat and always has been. He served 20 years in the military, including time in Vietnam where he received two purple hearts.

He "thinks" Kerry is a piece of shit because of what he did after coming back from the war and refuses to vote for him. A man who has spent the past few years bashing Bush is going to vote for him just to keep Kerry out of the White House.

So yeah, I "think" I have an idea and I "think" Kerry sucks.

But beyond the personal stuff I just don't think he can win this race anyway unless the economy falters. And by the way don't we kind of HAVE to pass judgement on these men running for president based on what they've done in their past?? I mean isn't that how the whole voting thing works???

(edited by wmatistic on 12.3.04 0819)
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#48 Posted on 12.3.04 1035.03
Reposted on: 12.3.11 1035.18
    Originally posted by wmatistic
      Originally posted by ThreepMe
      I think it's wrong for someone who has never been in the thick of battle, has seen the horrors of war, had to save people's lives on a daily basis or had to kill others not only for survival but because you are ordered to to pass judgment on someone who did. Especially on this issue.

      It's real easy for those of us sitting back in our cushy lifestyles to pass judgment on others.

      Let alone "think" that he is "wrong."

      You have no idea.



    Ok then, my father was here for a visit last weekend. He's a die hard democrat and always has been. He served 20 years in the military, including time in Vietnam where he received two purple hearts.

    He "thinks" Kerry is a piece of shit because of what he did after coming back from the war and refuses to vote for him. A man who has spent the past few years bashing Bush is going to vote for him just to keep Kerry out of the White House.

    So yeah, I "think" I have an idea and I "think" Kerry sucks.

    But beyond the personal stuff I just don't think he can win this race anyway unless the economy falters. And by the way don't we kind of HAVE to pass judgement on these men running for president based on what they've done in their past?? I mean isn't that how the whole voting thing works???

    (edited by wmatistic on 12.3.04 0819)


That post was in response to:

"ON the Kerry issue, I think it is wrong for a high profile person, to trump up the fact that he is a decorated war hero, to be the same guy that came back and was undermining the efforts."

In which case, my statement was correct. There is not basis of background in above statement nor any supporting data that indicates that he is qualified to make such a decision based on what could probably be 2nd, 3rd or 4th hand information.

Also, since your father served, he can make a valid opinion of the situation. YOU, on the other hand, are taking this 2nd hand.

And yes, you do have to pass judgment on these guys. But for the sake of sanity, keep your opinions to issues YOU actually know something about.

Theorizing about some topics looks good on paper, but don't wax politics on issues that you have no way of knowing anything about.

For instance:

White Suburban America having an opinion on what happens in lower ethnic neighborhoods, or the hardships of those people.

People who are bad with money having an opinion on the greater good of the economy.

People who have hardly worked a day in their lives talking about unemployment rates.

People who have never served in battle (most likely never been in a real fist fight) discussing War issues.

People who don't have a debilitating illness talking about health care.

People who have never been discriminated against for race, nationality, color, sexual preference, etc., discussing the plight of those who are.

Bottom Line: quit acting like you know the "ins and outs" of something just because someone TOLD you about it a few times.

Want to know something enough to form a valid opinion? Go and experience it.

BTW, you can think Kerry sucks all day long. But if you are basing said opinion solely on the "fact" of someone else's experience, then you are truly a narrow minded person.
RYDER FAKIN
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#49 Posted on 12.3.04 1035.24
Reposted on: 12.3.11 1035.44
Jakegnosis: First of all, Flea, he didn't throw his medals. Medals are awards you recieve for specific acts of valor and bravery. He tossed his combat ribbons, which are what you receive just for showing up and participating like everyone else.

Symbolism is symbolism, Sam Semantics

And I suggest you reread the Serviceman's Oath. I took it, and there's no goddamn thing in there that says I can't come back home, put away my uniform and speak out against senseless violence. That's insane. I have to agree with everything Bush does because I used to be 3rd Ranger battalion? I enjoy your writing and fondness for booze, Flea, but you're a political whackjob. There's something called freedom of speech that I believe Bush is claiming to be giving to Iraqis. Don't I have it, too? AWARulz, who I believe is also a Ranger (am I remembering wrong, AWA? We chatted in a thread a long time ago In This Very Folder) has political views that are the polar opposite of mine. he thinks Clinton was anti-American, I think Bush is anti-American. If we, a year from now, have a radically left-wing administration, does that mean he has to shut his mouth and agree with the government because he used to wear a Ranger tab on his shoulder? Fuck no.

That's the beauty of American freedom. I say what the fuck I like, he says what the fuck he likes, and I'd bet we could sit down, drink some beers and watch a baseball game without being all pissed at each other, because this is America, and that's the entire point.


Ah, the old time honnored and worn out "freedom of speech" argument, which is a 50/50 propostion at best. It depends on what kind of "speech" you use and in the context it's used. For example, it's your "freedom" to tell some dude his kid is ugly, but is it right? I have no problem with Kerry saying whatever he wants, but to pimp the fact "I was there and you weren't, so therefore I'm better than you and can say what I want about the horrors", especially after what he did AFTER the war and when the main issue of this Presidential Race will be one of National Secutiry and the future of the military, is not only detestable but it shows what kind of a man he is. Also, "political whackjob" is a very subjective term. All a matter of perception.

Personally, I have hated John Kerry's "Baby Killer",
"freedom of speech, so like it and don't question me" guts for around 20 years now and am amazed that he is on the cusp of being the Leader of the Free World. The guy has no concious, no morals and is hell bent on taking not only the Country, but The Democratic Party down with him. Why do you think there isn't an outpouring of support from the "real" leaders of the Democratic Party? Their whole deal (and Kerry's too - he has YET to outline a damn thing other than rhetoric) is to "get Bush out of office"...which I am not wholly opposed to, for social reasons, rather than military reasons. But not at the expense of having Kerry and his ilk
in charge. No way, no how.

I think it's wrong for someone who has never been in the thick of battle, has seen the horrors of war, had to save people's lives on a daily basis or had to kill others not only for survival but because you are ordered to to pass judgment on someone who did. Especially on this issue.
So, until you have served time in a losing war where thousands of your fellow soldiers are dying and you are order to do even half the things Kerry was told to do don't pretend that you can even hold a smidgen of a candle to him. Let alone "think" that he is "wrong."

You have no idea.


Bullshit. That's the same thinking that wrestlers use when we critique them. Because I wasn't old enough to serve in Vietnam means I can't criticize him? My father and Uncles were there and did multiple tours - one of my uncles died over there. Growing up in the 70's with the stigma of Vietnam very real and seeing people like John Kerry cavort around like he was Rambo while saying that his fellow servicemen (like my Father, Uncles and many people I know) were "baby killers"....and NOW having the nerve to...you know what...fuck it. If people despise Bush for what he has attempted to do for this country after 9/11 and think an asshole like Kerry is a better option, so be it. Just don't say you weren't warned. After all, he was very Gung Ho after 9/11, but only spoke out against it when it served his own purpose.

I think the fact that he went to Vietnam and fought for his country DESPITE the fact that he didn't support the nation's actions makes it more heroic.

Remember that when he calls the people you love "baby killers" for doing the exact same thing. And keeping their mouths shut about it.

Bottom Line: quit acting like you know the "ins and outs" of something just because someone TOLD you about it a few times.

Want to know something enough to form a valid opinion? Go and experience it.


Due to the fact that we do not have time machines, and cannot be everyone, everywhere, that's impossible. Besides, if that were the case, we would have a nation full of one-eyed children who ran with scissors, just because they "had to learn". "Learning", in general, is based on the experience of others.

FLEA

(edited by RYDER FAKIN on 12.3.04 1210)
wmatistic
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#50 Posted on 12.3.04 1119.05
Reposted on: 12.3.11 1123.59
"Bottom Line: quit acting like you know the "ins and outs" of something just because someone TOLD you about it a few times.

Want to know something enough to form a valid opinion? Go and experience it."

Jesus, that has to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. So no historians opinion as to what occured in the past is ever valid? Even if they went to school and learned everything they could, then dedicated their life to a certain subject like say Ancient Rome they still know shit about it cause they weren't actually there?

I have plenty of ways of knowing plenty about Kerry. My father was just one example.

"BTW, you can think Kerry sucks all day long. But if you are basing said opinion solely on the "fact" of someone else's experience, then you are truly a narrow minded person."

Well since I'm not basing it on that alone and you were just pulling that out of your ass based on one post where I made one point then I'm ok.

(edited by wmatistic on 12.3.04 0921)
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#51 Posted on 12.3.04 1157.11
Reposted on: 12.3.11 1159.01
I wasn't alive during Vietnam, so if that doesn't make me credible, sorry. But, I have done a bit of research, because both sides are lying and twisting facts around left and right.


Let's get a couple of facts straight about John Kerry:

* John Kerry never shook hands with Jane Fonda. At least, the onus would be on someone to prove that, and they cannot. Kerry and Fonda may have had similar political views on the war, but he may have disagreed with her on other issues.

* Kerry's statements about American soldiers doing deplorable things at least apply to SOME soldiers who served in Vietnam. Naturally, this does not apply to ALL soldiers - especially the two helicopter pilots that stopped the slaughter in My Lai - but quite a few.

The events of My Lai - where many unarmed civilian men, women, and children were killed are factual and there were court marshalls as a result. So, some Vietnam soldiers were "baby killers." And they were killing babies for America, serving our country. These soldiers did/do have families (including sons and daughters) over here in America who love them, and they are human beings. Even if this was just the one instance in Vietnam - which it more than likely is not - it's one too many.

Kerry, being a soldier in Vietnam and a witness to some of these acts, can be considered just as guilty as any other soldier who was involved.


    Daniel then asked Meadlo about the massacre at the eastern drainage ditch, and in the same almost emotionless voice, Meadlo recounted the story, telling the jury that Calley fired from 250 to 300 bullets into the ditch. One exchange was remarkable:

    Q: What were the children in the ditch doing?
    A: I don't know.
    Q: Were the babies in their mother's arms?
    A: I guess so.
    Q: And the babies moved to attack?
    A: I expected at any moment they were about to make a counterbalance.
    Q: Had they made any move to attack?
    A: No.


* I can't say what exactly the sentiment of those alive in the Vietnam Era is, but I have not seen one account that indicates Kerry is a traitor to this nation, especially in the way that Benedict Arnold was. People do have a right to FEEL that way, but the fact remains that he did not support the enemy. I think to label Kerry as a "traitor" is absoludicrous. Kerry has campaigned within our system to change things he feels are wrong. No one has made a convincing argument that Kerry aided our enemies.


Kerry does not have my full support, and neither does Bush, so don't label me a liberal.

(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 12.3.04 1036)
ThreepMe
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#52 Posted on 12.3.04 1301.03
Reposted on: 12.3.11 1303.14
"Jesus, that has to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. So no historians opinion as to what occured in the past is ever valid? Even if they went to school and learned everything they could, then dedicated their life to a certain subject like say Ancient Rome they still know shit about it cause they weren't actually there?"

Actually, most historians will admit that they can only know so much about it without experiencing it. Then there are some that will try to re-create certain events to simulate the experience..

Why? Because they know that no matter how much you study things, experience is the best teacher.

And BTW, there is a still a world of difference between a bunch of scrubs here that form these opinions based on VERY limited knowledge and NO experience and a historian who spends years studying these topics.

Geeze, one would think that you wouldn't have to explain such fundamental concepts. But I guess in the world of irrational arguments one will pull such things out of their ass and use that illogical extreme to debunk an idea they don't agree with.

edit: completed a sentence <--- Duh

(edited by ThreepMe on 12.3.04 1126)
wmatistic
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#53 Posted on 12.3.04 1332.04
Reposted on: 12.3.11 1332.13
    Originally posted by ThreepMe
    "Jesus, that has to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. So no historians opinion as to what occured in the past is ever valid? Even if they went to school and learned everything they could, then dedicated their life to a certain subject like say Ancient Rome they still know shit about it cause they weren't actually there?"

    Actually, most historians will admit that they can only know so much about it without experiencing it. Then there are some that will try to re-create certain events to simulate the experience..

    Why? Because they know that no matter how much you study things, experience is the best teacher.

    And BTW, there is a still a world of difference between a scrubs here that form these opinions based on VERY limited knowledge and NO experience and a historian who spends years studying these topics.

    Geeze, one would think that you wouldn't have to explain such fundamental concepts. But I guess in the world of irrational arguments one will pull such things out of their ass and use that illogical extreme to debunk an idea they don't agree with.


How is me thinking that I don't like Kerry, based on reading and hearing about many things he did, irrational or in any way extreme? And no one ever said experience wasn't the best teacher. What you said was no opinion of mine or anyone else's who was not there was not "valid" in any way. Not that it just wasn't as good, but it wasn't "valid".

You know what, actually I have heard people use this same "you had to be there" argument before. Always when they don't have any actual things to contribute to the discussion in terms of debate. The only alternative left when you have no relavant counterpoint is to try to act like everything the other people are saying is somehow invalid to get things off topic.

I don't like Kerry based on OMG yes actual research and listening to people who do have experience and I have every right to feel that way so get over it or give me an actual reason I should like the guy instead of trying this boring insult the other guy stuff.
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#54 Posted on 12.3.04 1354.04
Reposted on: 12.3.11 1359.01
    Originally posted by wmatistic
      Originally posted by ThreepMe
      "Jesus, that has to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. So no historians opinion as to what occured in the past is ever valid? Even if they went to school and learned everything they could, then dedicated their life to a certain subject like say Ancient Rome they still know shit about it cause they weren't actually there?"

      Actually, most historians will admit that they can only know so much about it without experiencing it. Then there are some that will try to re-create certain events to simulate the experience..

      Why? Because they know that no matter how much you study things, experience is the best teacher.

      And BTW, there is a still a world of difference between a scrubs here that form these opinions based on VERY limited knowledge and NO experience and a historian who spends years studying these topics.

      Geeze, one would think that you wouldn't have to explain such fundamental concepts. But I guess in the world of irrational arguments one will pull such things out of their ass and use that illogical extreme to debunk an idea they don't agree with.


    How is me thinking that I don't like Kerry, based on reading and hearing about many things he did, irrational or in any way extreme? And no one ever said experience wasn't the best teacher. What you said was no opinion of mine or anyone else's who was not there was not "valid" in any way. Not that it just wasn't as good, but it wasn't "valid".

    You know what, actually I have heard people use this same "you had to be there" argument before. Always when they don't have any actual things to contribute to the discussion in terms of debate. The only alternative left when you have no relavant counterpoint is to try to act like everything the other people are saying is somehow invalid to get things off topic.

    I don't like Kerry based on OMG yes actual research and listening to people who do have experience and I have every right to feel that way so get over it or give me an actual reason I should like the guy instead of trying this boring insult the other guy stuff.


Dude, you started the insult crap. So, don't pass that one on me. (see post #50 in this thread)

And there are times when, "You had to be there" is ABSOLUTELY relevant.

This just happens to be one of them. Not only were we not there, most of us were not even ALIVE then. None of us are scholars on the Vietnam War or the societal impact it had. Most of us have a High School education of that time at best. Some may have had SOME more in college. But that still does not make us experts on it.

These impacts on society had to be felt to truly understand the degree each side felt that they had to go to to get their point across. At this point all we have is a collection of out of context data that can be taken about 5000 different ways. How can you know the tension felt, the angst felt, or the sadness felt by each side of that debate? All these factors play HEAVILY into the "whys" of that debate. And there is NO WAY for you, who was not there, to have an inkling of that knowledge.

So, based on the idea of "you must have some actual working knowledge of a situation for an opinion to be valid," you do NOT have a valid opinion. The best you have is a biased, convoluted, and baseless opinion. At best (based on what you have presented thus far) Please note that in this instance, OPINION is in reference to your Vietnam knowledge, NOT whether or not you like or dislike Kerry overall.

"How is me thinking that I don't like Kerry, based on reading and hearing about many things he did, irrational or in any way extreme?"

Me saying "extreme" and "illogical" was not in reference to you liking or disliking Kerry. It was in reference to the comparison of: "Jesus, that has to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. So no historians opinion as to what occured in the past is ever valid?"

That's why I quoted you before my retort so you could reference what I was talking about.

I'm not saying you can't dislike Kerry. All I'm saying is don't form a judgment on someone using an argument that you know very little to nothing about. I've been "over it" since the beginning
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#55 Posted on 12.3.04 1424.27
Reposted on: 12.3.11 1428.14
"The fact that you would even bring up the "doesnt it bother you that the world doesnt like your leader" argument is humorous, because to tell you the truth, I could give a Rat's ass what other nations thought of our government. As long as our government it providing the appropriate services to me and my fellow citizens, your opinion of who is running it really doesnt effect me one way or the other."

America is the only leading superpower left in the world. America has the best military, and is the most wealthy. America wishes to act as the police of the world, and use its arsenal and influence where it sees fit.

Here's the deal: You can't have it both ways. Like it or not-Hell, I certainly don't-the rest of the world is affected by many of the major decisions made by the American government. And many US citizens seem satisfied with this course of events. HOWEVER, that means that maybe they should feel a little more responsible for their effects on the rest of the world. It's a little galling to see Bush painted as the leader of the free world-not just America-and then be told that our opinions mean jack shit and you don't care what the rest of the world thinks. If America wants to be the leader of the world, then that's not the way to go about it.

Just saying.
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#56 Posted on 12.3.04 1455.30
Reposted on: 12.3.11 1455.37
    Originally posted by ThreepMe
    I think it's wrong for someone who has never been in the thick of battle, has seen the horrors of war, had to save people's lives on a daily basis or had to kill others not only for survival but because you are ordered to to pass judgment on someone who did.

    It's real easy for those of us sitting back in our cushy lifestyles to pass judgment on others.

    So, until you have served time in a losing war where thousands of your fellow soldiers are dying and you are order to do even half the things Kerry was told to do don't pretend that you can even hold a smidgen of a candle to him. Let alone "think" that he is "wrong."

    You have no idea.





Actually, I believe I am more qualified than most here to speak on this situation.

http://www.grovestreet.com/ jsp/onepic.jsp?id=388237


Note the COMBAT ACTION RIBBON in section 18. I think I have the requires perspective to comment on this.



(edited by StaggerLee on 12.3.04 1259)
wmatistic
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#57 Posted on 12.3.04 1503.04
Reposted on: 12.3.11 1506.44
" you are truly a narrow minded person."

Yeah, that would be you before post 50 so nanananananana you started it and I'm tellin.

"But that still does not make us experts on it."

Never claimed to be, but certainly that doesn't keep me from having a valid opinion.

" How can you know the tension felt, the angst felt, or the sadness felt by each side of that debate? All these factors play HEAVILY into the "whys" of that debate. And there is NO WAY for you, who was not there, to have an inkling of that knowledge. "

Other than oh say reading things written by the people who experienced it where they explain exactly those things to you in detail or you know asking some of them straight up about it while you spent your life growing up hanging around these very people. In fact that would give you EXACTLY that knowledge.

" All I'm saying is don't form a judgment on someone using an argument that you know very little to nothing about."

You mean like how you formed a judgment on me without having any clue what actual knowledge I have of the subject?

Good thing I do know more than "very little to nothing" about Vietnam so my judgement of Kerry is perfectly valid. Are you seriously gonna keep defending this silly line of reasoning or can we be done now?
CRZ
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#58 Posted on 12.3.04 1510.49
Reposted on: 12.3.11 1511.38
    Originally posted by wmatistic
    Are you seriously gonna keep defending this silly line of reasoning or can we be done now?
We're going to be done now VERY soon, I think. Everybody cut it out.
ThreepMe
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#59 Posted on 12.3.04 1514.04
Reposted on: 12.3.11 1514.44
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
      Originally posted by ThreepMe
      I think it's wrong for someone who has never been in the thick of battle, has seen the horrors of war, had to save people's lives on a daily basis or had to kill others not only for survival but because you are ordered to to pass judgment on someone who did.

      It's real easy for those of us sitting back in our cushy lifestyles to pass judgment on others.

      So, until you have served time in a losing war where thousands of your fellow soldiers are dying and you are order to do even half the things Kerry was told to do don't pretend that you can even hold a smidgen of a candle to him. Let alone "think" that he is "wrong."

      You have no idea.





    Actually, I believe I am more qualified than most here to speak on this situation.

    http://www.grovestreet.com/ jsp/onepic.jsp?id=388237


    Note the COMBAT ACTION RIBBON in section 18. I think I have the requires perspective to comment on this.



    (edited by StaggerLee on 12.3.04 1259)


Well...Yes you do. More so than (probably) everyone else here.

Unless there is an actual Veitnam Vet here...But looks like you're most qualified.(on an experience level).

Now this part may incur CRZ's wrath, but hell, I think I'm due...

"" you are truly a narrow minded person."

Yeah, that would be you before post 50 so nanananananana you started it and I'm tellin."

You left out the "IF/THEN" part of that quote. IF you don't qualify for the IF, THEN you are exepmt from the THEN. Get it?

"Never claimed to be, but certainly that doesn't keep me from having a valid opinion."

Actually, yes it does. You can still have an opinion, but VALID is stretching it. You have yet to validate anything other then you talking to people who have valid opinions.

"Other than oh say reading things written by the people who experienced it where they explain exactly those things to you in detail or you know asking some of them straight up about it while you spent your life growing up hanging around these very people. In fact that would give you EXACTLY that knowledge."

Since WHEN did someone telling you "Oh, I felt such and such" give YOU the ability to actually, you know, feel it? That would be something out of an X-Men comic. In real life you actually have to experience something to actually feel it.

You cannot feel by proxy. Not in an accurate sense. If you do, you end up with the view point of the few people who you asked or the books you've read. Still very limited compared to actually being there and experiencing it.

"You mean like how you formed a judgment on me without having any clue what actual knowledge I have of the subject?"

Please show the quote (in it's entirety) that shows ME actually passing judgment on YOU? I've insinuated a lot, but insinuations are NOT judgments.

Edit: added in retort to wmatistic



(edited by ThreepMe on 12.3.04 2208)
wmatistic
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#60 Posted on 12.3.04 1543.34
Reposted on: 12.3.11 1543.36
(deleted by CRZ on 12.3.04 1353)
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