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The 7 - Hockey - I WANT TO FUCKING KILL TODD BERTUZZI
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StaggerLee
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#21 Posted on 10.3.04 0910.58
Reposted on: 10.3.11 0911.44
Are you really that retarded to think that his hit was okay? The guy HAD IT COMING? Bitch please! The only thing redeeming about a fight in hockey is that both players agree to participate in it, and if it is one guy being sent after another for him doing something previously, the majority of the time, there is a BIG hit and then a scuffle.

Moore was skating away, not trying to do anything. Bertuzzi chased him down, and hit him from behind. A total bitch ass, pussy way to do business. If he would "go toe to toe" with anybody, why did he need to cheap shot this guy?

Mr. Heat Miser
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#22 Posted on 10.3.04 1006.26
Reposted on: 10.3.11 1007.09
    Originally posted by StaggerLee

    Are you really that retarded to think that his hit was okay?


    Originally posted by wordlife

    Is what Bert did right? No.

Broncolanche
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#23 Posted on 10.3.04 1007.13
Reposted on: 10.3.11 1007.22
    Originally posted by wordlife
    You have a buddy who is quiet & intelligent (think Naslund), some asshole (think Moore) comes up and starts picking on him when everyone knows this kid isn't a fighter.


Do you even watch Avalanche hockey? Moore is not an "asshole", and his hit on Naslund was CLEAN--Naslund ducked instead of taking the full force of the hit, and that caused his concussion (that's the Cliff's Notes version of it, there are more details out there on how the injury occurred). Moore wasn't "headhunting" and looking to take out Vancouver's star player, and everyone associated with the Canucks--from Marc Crawford to Brad "We have a bounty on Moore's head *lololololol*" May--completely overreacted to that initial hit and Pink Panties took it too far, so don't give me that "eye-for-an-eye" bs.

(edited by Broncolanche on 10.3.04 1003)
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#24 Posted on 10.3.04 1028.44
Reposted on: 10.3.11 1029.03
First off that hit Moore gave Naslund was clean. Crawford must have been on crack when seeing that hit. If anything Moore should have got 2 minutes. Bertuzzi is a disgrace to Canada and should be given a lifetime ban or out until Moore is out and suspended aganist the Quebec Nordiques for life! On the other side Moore should have had the balls to fight him but Bertuzzi should have turned him around before he decked him. WWE sign Bertuzzi today and put him in the hall of fame on Saturday!
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#25 Posted on 10.3.04 1040.35
Reposted on: 10.3.11 1040.53
I've been gone since Saturday, but being in a hotel room with eight decent channels (thank you, Hampton Inn San Diego) has given me the opportunity to see this hit quite a few times. I'll say the comments in this thread are the first I've seen trying to say Bertuzzi "tries to stop himself from going down" (fuelinjected) or that "he clearly wasn't trying to slam him face first into the ice" (anibanging). From my view I thought I saw him (1) grab Moore's jersey to pull Moore back AND give himself a little pull forward to get better leverage and (2) leave his feet to jump on Moore, not anticipating what happened but rather expecting Moore to be ready to rumble in return.

Marty McSorley hit Donald Brasher in the head expecting to start a fight, instead knocking him cold resulting in his head slamming into the ice. He got a year ban. Bertuzzi should get the same, with anytime the lockout is in effect NOT counting toward the suspension.
fuelinjected
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#26 Posted on 10.3.04 1055.11
Reposted on: 10.3.11 1055.39
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
    I've been gone since Saturday, but being in a hotel room with eight decent channels (thank you, Hampton Inn San Diego) has given me the opportunity to see this hit quite a few times. I'll say the comments in this thread are the first I've seen trying to say Bertuzzi "tries to stop himself from going down" (fuelinjected) or that "he clearly wasn't trying to slam him face first into the ice" (anibanging). From my view I thought I saw him (1) grab Moore's jersey to pull Moore back AND give himself a little pull forward to get better leverage and (2) leave his feet to jump on Moore, not anticipating what happened but rather expecting Moore to be ready to rumble in return.

    Marty McSorley hit Donald Brasher in the head expecting to start a fight, instead knocking him cold resulting in his head slamming into the ice. He got a year ban. Bertuzzi should get the same, with anytime the lockout is in effect NOT counting toward the suspension.



McSorley got 23 games and then it was extended to a year after he skipped a hearing and got 18 months probation in Vancouver for assault with a weapon.

He was also a legendary goon who probably wasn't going to play the next year anyways so it was a lot easier for Bettman to make an example out of him.

Here you have a hothead who is also a major superstar in the league. I think 20 games would be a good suspension because that would be the remainder of the regular season and at least one Playoff round. It would also end up costing Bertuzzi upwards of $500,000-$1 million in salary.

I keep looking back at Matt Johnson, a repeat offender, who ended someone's career with a sucker punch to the back of the head. He got 12 games. People complain that the star players get preferential treatment from the league but if Bertuzzi gets an excessive suspension because he's a star, I doubt those same people will say a word about that double standard.
JayJayDean
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#27 Posted on 10.3.04 1211.57
Reposted on: 10.3.11 1212.30
    Originally posted by fuelinjected
    I keep looking back at Matt Johnson, a repeat offender, who ended someone's career with a sucker punch to the back of the head. He got 12 games. People complain that the star players get preferential treatment from the league but if Bertuzzi gets an excessive suspension because he's a star, I doubt those same people will say a word about that double standard.


Johnson's suspension was in 1998. McSorley's was in 2000, so I'd say McSorley's is the valid precedent here, not Johnson's.
JoshMann
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#28 Posted on 10.3.04 1228.41
Reposted on: 10.3.11 1229.01
Completely unrelated (but not really if we're talking about cheap shots), but I have to chuckle right now remembering how Don Becker requested of me to take a swing at Dale Hunter the next time I ever saw him in the London, ON Loeblow's I mentioned I saw him in.

Then again, he was still a little bitter over that whole Pierre Turgeon thing. :)
wordlife
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#29 Posted on 10.3.04 1330.37
Reposted on: 10.3.11 1331.55
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    Are you really that retarded to think that his hit was okay? The guy HAD IT COMING? Bitch please! The only thing redeeming about a fight in hockey is that both players agree to participate in it, and if it is one guy being sent after another for him doing something previously, the majority of the time, there is a BIG hit and then a scuffle.

    Moore was skating away, not trying to do anything. Bertuzzi chased him down, and hit him from behind. A total bitch ass, pussy way to do business. If he would "go toe to toe" with anybody, why did he need to cheap shot this guy?




Pretty easy, b/c Moore was too chickenshit to fight him b/c Moore wrote a check his ass couldn't cash due to Bert arguably being the strongest guy in the league (I've met the dude in person, he is diesel)...Someone said here that Moore should have turned around and faced the music like a man, which he should have (every man should be responsible for their actions), it would have been done and over with b/c the refs would have broken it up if it got too bad....you are the huge NWA fan Stagger, you should know that when you screwed with one of the 4 horsemen, you started shit with all of them, AA or Tully wouldn't stand idly by if someone knocked out Flair

And Broncolanche, I watch a lot of hockey, and Moore is notorious for being an "instigator" and a clutch-n-grab guy (furthermore, that "clean" hit was after the whistle if my memory serves me right)...this is one of the problems with the NHL, there are too many guys that aren't talented enough to really "keep up" so they use tactics like Moore does to keep their spot (play that crosses the line of "aggressive")...I know it sucks to watch one of your guys go down (it would be like in Boston when PJ Stock was here) but you should take a look at the Canucks side of it too at the same time, if someone went after Kariya, Selanne, Blake or Forsberg like Naslund got it, you are saying you wouldn't expect the team to get revenge on that person? Please...concussions are pretty serious stuff (see the Lindros brothers) and they shouldn't be taken lightly

I feel that Bert was wrong in what he did but when you do shit like Moore does (cheap shots, running your mouth) it catches up to you at some point (see Martha Stewart), but the league should really look at this incident and possibly use it going toward contraction (which I have heard is rumored if the lockout happens)

And Mr. Heat, thank you :)

(edited by wordlife on 10.3.04 1134)
Von Maestro
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#30 Posted on 10.3.04 1356.56
Reposted on: 10.3.11 1356.59
    Originally posted by wordlife
    Pretty easy, b/c Moore was too chickenshit to fight him b/c Moore wrote a check his ass couldn't cash


Moore already had his "payback" fight earlier in the game, AND this was NOT the first time the teams had met since the original UNPENALIZED hit on Naslund!!!

Jeez, you sound like a complete moron actually trying to defend "Bert", & justify his actions of clocking a guy from behind & driving him face-first into the ice.
Do you even realize how idiotic what you are saying is???
Freeway
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#31 Posted on 10.3.04 1438.22
Reposted on: 10.3.11 1443.13
Steve Moore fought Matt Cooke in the first period. He also scored a goal. And as for Steve Moore's clutching and grabbing...if the referee's didn't call it, it's not a penalty. Moore's hit on Naslund was a situation where he went for a hit, Naslund turned away to avoid it, and they hit awkwardly. It was a clean hit by Moore. The referees didn't call anything, and the NHL didn't say it was dirty. Bertuzzi could've just let things go...but no, he had to be a big man and jump a guy from behind and probably end his career. I hope Bertuzzi can live with himself after this, because Steve Moore will never be the same.
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#32 Posted on 10.3.04 1609.16
Reposted on: 10.3.11 1609.22
Wordlife, you're 25 years old (according to your profile). I HOPE that you understand the difference between wrestling and real life by now. Comparing what "Bert" did to what "AA or Tully" would do is completely ludicrous. If you think what "Bert" did was in the right please, for the love of god, come up with a stronger argument.

And how the hell would the league use this incident as an argument for contraction? Both teams are established franchises. Your statement makes no sense.

As far as the hit goes, Broncolance put it best when he called "Bert" a 240 pound douchefuck. There is no reason, in any situation, to hit a man when he's not looking. There is also no reason to hit a man who is smaller than you are. These are the signs of a coward. So keep worshiping your coward. After all, he's the toughest guy in the NHL. He hit a man from behind and broke that man's neck. Awesome.
Freeway
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#33 Posted on 10.3.04 1654.54
Reposted on: 10.3.11 1656.07
For the curious, from TSN.ca:

TODD BERTUZZI [6-3; 235; Sudbury, Ontario; 29 years old; 8th NHL season]
Vancouver Canucks assistant captain
2003-04: Canucks [69 GP: 17G-43A for 60PTS; +21, 122 PM]
CAREER: Islanders & Canucks [628 GP: 198G-260A for 458PTS, -16, 911PM]

STEVE MOORE [6-2; 205; Windsor, Ontario; 25 years old; 2nd NHL season]
2003-04: Avalanche [57GP; 5G-7A for 12PTS; -5, 37 PM]
CAREER: Avalanche [69GP; 5G-7A for 12PTS; -9, 41 PM]

Moore was one of those solid two-way players who had to grind & bump their way to the NHL due to lack of amazing scoring touch. He worked his way to 4 call-ups this season, and proved to be at the very least fairly competant as an NHLer. His check on Naslund was clean (or at worst, an accident) and did what physical play SHOULD do in a hockey game: it got the Canucks off of their games.
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#34 Posted on 10.3.04 1655.40
Reposted on: 10.3.11 1657.41
    Originally posted by Freeway420
    Steve Moore fought Matt Cooke in the first period. He also scored a goal. And as for Steve Moore's clutching and grabbing...if the referee's didn't call it, it's not a penalty. Moore's hit on Naslund was a situation where he went for a hit, Naslund turned away to avoid it, and they hit awkwardly. It was a clean hit by Moore. The referees didn't call anything, and the NHL didn't say it was dirty. Bertuzzi could've just let things go...but no, he had to be a big man and jump a guy from behind and probably end his career. I hope Bertuzzi can live with himself after this, because Steve Moore will never be the same.


Steve Moore's cracked vertebra will fully heal in 4-6 weeks, stronger then before like most bones do. The C3 and C4 vertebra which were cracked are wrist and fingers.

The concussion is the big unknown but luckily for Moore, he's never had one before.
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#35 Posted on 11.3.04 0107.17
Reposted on: 11.3.11 0107.28
I saw the hit here: http://hfhelper.hockeyfights.com/ cf293/ 040308_bertuzzi_cheapshots_moore.wmv ; and on the second angle, it clearly shows Bertuzzi cocking his fist back for a second shot from behind on Moore's head. If there weren't so many players around, he would've landed at least two more shots on the guy's head. Considering the first shot knocked him out, a couple more could've killed him, or if he was "lucky" given him some slight mental damage. I'm not the world's biggest hockey fan, but this coward needs to be done playing at least until the next season that the NHL plays. No playoffs, nothing.

//edit: Last I checked, you don't have vertebra in your wrists and fingers.

(edited by Whitebacon on 10.3.04 2327)
StaggerLee
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#36 Posted on 11.3.04 0124.36
Reposted on: 11.3.11 0124.39
WHenever I get into a hockey discussion, it is hard to defend the fighting, because people outside of the sport see it as just violence, where in reality, it has a very, very specific place in the game. If Bert really felt he had to fight, and his coach sent him out to fight Moore, he needed to face off with him and duke it out. This gives hockey a terrible black eye and a horrible PR situation to spin. A man has a fractured neck, and the sport doesnt seem to know what to do.

Also, if Marc Crawford directed this, HE should be suspended as well.


Does anybody remember a case back in the 80s when Philly was playing somebody and they had a HUGE incident where a player was crosschecked in the neck, and the next time the teams played, the other team called up every goon they had under contract and let them have at it with whomever it was that crosschecked thier guy? (sorry I cant be more specific). Anyhow, I would LOVE to see as soon as Bert is allowed back, Stu Grimson come out of retirement and beat his ass. Hell, add Tony Twist to that line and let them double team him.


I think the apporpriate action would be a suspension for Bertuzzi that equals the time it takes Moore to be able to play again. If its a year, then suspend him a year, if he's out two, Bert sits for two.

(edited by StaggerLee on 10.3.04 2328)
Broncolanche
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#37 Posted on 11.3.04 0148.13
Reposted on: 11.3.11 0149.35
Anyone see Bertuzzi's press conference? He delivered an apology which I found to be very heartfelt and sincere, and he appeared to be very distressed over the entire situation (as well he should). I'll give him props for that.

Makes me wanna change the thread title. Should I?
Stefonics
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#38 Posted on 11.3.04 0527.16
Reposted on: 11.3.11 0527.46
No, I don't think you should change the thread title. Bertuzzi still did what he did and no matter how sincere and heartfelt his press conference was, it doesn't change the fact that he almost took a man's life on the ice. Even though he was crying, I don't buy his argument that he didn't mean to hurt him. When you swing at the back of a man's head with the force that Bertuzzi did, the intention is clear: to inflict pain. The fact that he wound up to swing again does nothing to help sway my opinion on this matter. The press conference only proved that Bertuzzi is not a heartless robot. He understands what he did and he understands what could have happened to Moore in the worst case scenario. But, again, it still doesn't take back what he did.

And Fuelinjected, last time I checked (and thankfully there's a thread devoted to it) you're not a doctor. Saying that breaking the C3 and C4 vertebrae is akin to breaking one's wrist and fingers is completely insane. I would much rather have someone smash my hand into a bloody pulp, rendering it useless for the rest of my life than to have the possibility of being completely paralyzed. Qualifying your argument by saying that the bones will heal "stronger than before" is also ignorant and irresponsible. So in essence, Bertuzzi did Moore a favor by breaking his neck? Now Moore has some sort of super-neck? Where do I sign up to get one of those?

On a personal note, why is it that I'm upset at what Bertuzzi did? I wouldn't be nearly as irate if Domi had done it.
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#39 Posted on 11.3.04 0725.59
Reposted on: 11.3.11 0726.08
    Originally posted by Broncolanche
    Anyone see Bertuzzi's press conference? He delivered an apology which I found to be very heartfelt and sincere, and he appeared to be very distressed over the entire situation (as well he should). I'll give him props for that.



    Of COURSE he was heartfelt and sincere. Of COURSE he appeared to be very stressed.

    Wouldn't you if your NHL career was possibly on the line here? He wasn't going to say "Oh, yeah, I did it. So what?"

    Feel free to tack an extra year or so to his suspension if he had.

    (edited by Bullitt on 11.3.04 0626)
Corajudo
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#40 Posted on 11.3.04 0741.25
Reposted on: 11.3.11 0742.09
I like hockey but probably qualify as more of a casual fan because I watch very little regular season hockey but all the playoff hockey I can. That said, I have a question about fighting etiquette. My impression was that if a player wants to fight, then skates up to the other player and, face-to-face tells him 'let's go' (or some equivalent). Is this right? In sum, is there some sort of honor code for hockey fighting? Because, if there is, it seems that, even before he cold cocked Moore, Bertuzzi violated it in a big way.

Lastly, Moore had already fought someone. Not wanting to fight a guy who is 30-40 pounds heavier and 4 inches taller isn't chickenshit; it's called not being suicidal. Speaking of which, isn't that another part of the hockey 'goon code'--that fighters generally don't pick on guys who aren't fighters and that they generally don't pick on guys who are 30 pounds lighter (unless the other guy instigates it, of course)?

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