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24.10.07 1942
The 7 - Random - Smile Ti--...Angel 02-20
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JST
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#1 Posted on 18.2.04 2315.49
Reposted on: 18.2.11 2316.06
One line totally made tonight's episode for me.

"...Yeah, I'm a puppet."
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kazhayashi81
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#2 Posted on 19.2.04 0021.39
Reposted on: 19.2.11 0021.40
"I do not have puppet cancer!"

How can anyone cancel this show in good faith.. that's beyond me.
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#3 Posted on 19.2.04 0406.39
Reposted on: 19.2.11 0406.45
I though tonight was funny and when he change into the Vampire puppet I was laughing.


Are they going to cancel?


Here a funny line, the werewolf girl wakeing up. "Oh god I ate him" pulling stuffing out of her mouth. This was a classic show tonight.
Wolfram J. Paulovich
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#4 Posted on 19.2.04 0514.52
Reposted on: 19.2.11 0514.57
Angel: Spike, I'm a...
Spike: YOU'RE A WEE PUPPET MAN!!!!

(later)
Angel: Harmony, get my call list.
Spike: You heard the puppet.


Angel never had this degree of blistering self-mockery. Spike has made so many scenarios seem plausible this season, if only because he mocked them before (and better) than the audience could. Of course, this means it's time for cancellation. By all means. Thanks.
cranlsn
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#5 Posted on 19.2.04 0700.59
Reposted on: 19.2.11 0701.18
When he changed into the vampire puppet I kept waiting for:

"ONE! One dead demon!! Ah! Ah! Ah!"

Did this show make anyone else think twice about Barney?
Excalibur05
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#6 Posted on 19.2.04 0844.34
Reposted on: 19.2.11 0844.56
I don't know. the episode never hooked me with its concept, and really, this is one episode where you really like it or you really don't. I'm firmly in the "really don't" department. I liked li'l Angel's transformation scene and the Fred/Wesley interaction, but I can't help but feel that this would have been a much better episode during a better season. Having read most of the spoilers (which I don't normally do, but I needed to find out where they were going with this Fred thing), I'm pretty disinterested in the storyline they're affecting. I have very little faith that the writing team knows where they're going to close out the series. More Below:


Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
These next two episodes are episodes shot BEFORE word came down from above that Angel was getting canned. So, this is Joss' vision with another season of Angel after this in mind:

Next week, Fred dies when she opens an ancient coffin and a demon overtakes her body and soul. Angel can't stop it, so Wesley goes off all half-cocked and tries to get revenge on the two people he blames for Fred's death, Gunn and Knox. In the next episode, Evil Fred tries to raise an army to take over the world.

Now, ignoring the generic story, one which they've already done a variation on 4 times now between Buffy and Angel, for a moment, Joss' big vision was to kill off the only female character on the show? Eve and Harmony are recurring characters because they have jobs outside the show, and that wouldn't have changed. Only Eve is strong enough to be a regular anyway. I understand that Angel is supposed to be the tougher, grittier show (puppets notwithstanding), but give me a break. You already lost your grounding moral compass character when Cordelia left last year, you're going to eliminate your only other one this season? Now the closest thing to a female voice is Lorne, but really, he's a comic relief character, the only time he's shown any real emotional involvement in the storylines was when Faith was dying last year.

Not only that, but they really didn't give the audience much time to become invested in the Fred/Wesley romance to make Wes' storyline mean anything. Especially not after having had dropped it entirely last season. Besides, everybody knows not to get involved in a romance in Wheadon-verse, because the audience has been burned far too many times. I understand that he's interested in making a tragedy, and romantic tragedy is script-writing 101, but how about throwing the audience a frickin' bone once in a while? There's only so many times that you can but two characters together and then kill one off/send one away, before the audience just says "Fuck it, if one of the characters falls in love, that's it for them." The impact of the romantic tragedy loses its impact if the audience knows that every single time it's going to end the same.

Back to the story now. They've got Wolfram and Heart, Eve, Lindsay and the Powers That Be/Senior Partners struggle all sitting right there, and what is the main story arch for the season? Evil Demon wants to take over the world. Ok, now between the two the only seasons that hasn't been the storyline for was Angel Season 1-3 and Buffy Season 6 (though that's debateable). So fine, there's precident. It wouldn't even be soooo bad if they hadn't already run a similar demon possession story last year with the OTHER female character on the show. I guess they were maybe hoping that there would be a certain shock value in having little Amy Acker play the big bad, but they did THAT with Willow in Season 6. Maybe there's only SO MANY different stories you can tell before you start a lot of overlap. It's probably a good thing that they cancelled the show before next year's season arch, A vampire who lives under Los Angeles decides to gather an army and take over the World and replace everyone with demon/human/cyborgs and Wesley is ostricized from the group because he has a scruffy beard.

I know I haven't seen anything, yet, but when you're this disappointed with the set up, and when you've already been taken down this road before and seen all the possible routes, it's going ot take one hell of a fricking finally to make it worthwhile


(edited by Excalibur05 on 19.2.04 0853)
JST
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#7 Posted on 19.2.04 1353.06
Reposted on: 19.2.11 1354.47
Either way, if it gets cancelled, I'm gonna go out of my way to get me a damn DVD player and the season box sets. Too bad I had chosen THIS season to really start getting into the show.

Another point of discussion: Gunn. When Eve went AWOL, he seemed to be losing his legal mojo day by day. But now he seems to have gotten the "permanent upgrade". I reckon he made a deal with the doctor that's gonna bite the gang in the ass later on. Thoughts?
Excalibur05
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#8 Posted on 19.2.04 1501.31
Reposted on: 19.2.11 1503.14
    Originally posted by Tod deKindes
    I reckon he made a deal with the doctor that's gonna bite the gang in the ass later on. Thoughts?


Either that, or they're going with the old TV cliche of "Gunn hits the books REAL hard and applies himself to show everybody that he can be cool, even without the performance enhancing super knowledge".
EddieBurkett
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#9 Posted on 19.2.04 1908.22
Reposted on: 19.2.11 1908.46
After announcing cancellation, the only way to reply is to come back with a kick-ass ep. This episode was perfect, from the fact that no one (save Angel) was overshadowed, plot developments were advanced, and the story was off-beat and enjoyable. Last week's trailer had me wondering, but this ep RAWKED!!!

Seems like Gunn sold his soul... Should lead to a good fight down the line.

Puppet Angel was awesome. From the fight with Spike to the vamp face at the end. Even the scene with Lorne carrying the mauled puppet was awesome. And if the show had a next season, I would think the visual of Fred, Gunn, and Wesley following puppet Angel deserves to be in the opening montage.

What the hell was that Purple thing? I'm having nightmares about it.

And when did Fred start packing?

Also, when did Fred start sending signals to Wesley? Last I recall, she was into Knoxy (like Wes thought). Did Fred's affection turn this ep, or am I blind?

Was that a cameo by David Fury as the Puppet-maker? Clever twist on having the puppet with his arm inside the man.

And I like the relationship between Angel and the werewolf. I'm glad they brought her back after setting that up in episode two. If only they could bring back Gwen and Kate before the show ends.

This is easily one of the best episodes of the season. I loved it.
JST
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#10 Posted on 20.2.04 0042.56
Reposted on: 20.2.11 0043.39
Another thought just hit me: who was the guy with the towel on his head exactly again? They lost me on that one.
Big Bad
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#11 Posted on 20.2.04 0134.01
Reposted on: 20.2.11 0137.21
I think the guy with the towel was the puppeteer, though that was never really cleared up.

Though I think they could've had a few more funny one-liners, the visual of Angel as a puppet NEVER got old. The puppet-vamping was gold, as was that giant purple thing fighting with Wes in the background.

Perhaps the 'signals' that Fred was sending Wesley were her skirts, which are now reaching Betty Boop levels of shortness. Not that I'm complaining.
JST
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#12 Posted on 20.2.04 0151.57
Reposted on: 20.2.11 0153.16
If anyone can get a screen shot of Angel in puppet form, you will have my undying respect. And a cookie.

Never mind

(image removed)

(edited by Tod deKindes on 20.2.04 0255)
SchippeWreck
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#13 Posted on 20.2.04 1804.47
Reposted on: 20.2.11 1805.21
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    I think the guy with the towel was the puppeteer, though that was never really cleared up.

It was cleared up, but only if you watched really closely. I'm watching the ep again right now. After the puppet takes his hand out of the puppeteer's back, the puppeteer's arms shake just like the towel guy's did in the earlier scene. Blink and you missed it.

(edited by SchippeWreck on 20.2.04 1605)
J. Kyle
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#14 Posted on 22.2.04 1754.32
Reposted on: 22.2.11 1755.58
The heroes walk redone with puppet Angel made me clap and nearly made me hoot.

Wess beating up the Grimus lookalike rocked so hard.
JST
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#15 Posted on 23.2.04 0212.29
Reposted on: 23.2.11 0212.44
    Originally posted by AngryJohnny
    The heroes walk redone with puppet Angel made me clap and nearly made me hoot.

    Wess beating up the Grimus lookalike rocked so hard.


(image removed) (image removed)
Vamp Puppet: (image removed)

:)

(edited by Tod deKindes on 23.2.04 0326)
oldschoolhero
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#16 Posted on 23.2.04 1427.32
Reposted on: 23.2.11 1428.30
"I don't know. the episode never hooked me with its concept, and really, this is one episode where you really like it or you really don't. I'm firmly in the "really don't" department. I liked li'l Angel's transformation scene and the Fred/Wesley interaction, but I can't help but feel that this would have been a much better episode during a better season. Having read most of the spoilers (which I don't normally do, but I needed to find out where they were going with this Fred thing), I'm pretty disinterested in the storyline they're affecting. I have very little faith that the writing team knows where they're going to close out the series."

SPOILER






.....






The Fred-getting-possessed story arc appears to be just one of the strands involved in the season-closing corridor, and probably not the most major one at that. Episode 18 will apparently see the return of the "vampire's child shall kill Sahjahn" prophecy, as well as Sahjahn himself. Now, I'm not a big fan of the Fred story, BUT this is much more like it. Plus, seeing as this major Fred development is happening with like two months of the show left, I'm thinking it's not the major turning point for the team. It'll play a role-but it's not going to be the be-all end-all of the series.
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