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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - Wow, this just hit me -- NONE of the Radicalz are on the active WWF roster
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Hokienautic
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#1 Posted on 3.3.02 2134.34
Reposted on: 3.3.09 2138.51
I just got done re-reading Mick Foley's "Foley is Good" book, and there's a chapter on the Radicalz's intro to the WWF at Mick's hands, and how they were supposed to main event No Way Out until Guerrero got injured. Man, if the big things planned for them didn't fall flat on their faces, huh? Malenko retiring, Guerrero injured immediately, back, injured, suspended then fired, Saturn useless and Benoit starting to hit his stride and getting seriously injured.

Can you imagine how hot things would be right now if all four of them realized the potential many said they had in the WWF?
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Punkinhed
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#2 Posted on 3.3.02 2142.39
Reposted on: 3.3.09 2142.46



Not to be nitpicky but Saturn IS on the active roster, just not on the big shows, however you're right...just another case of a wrestling company squandering a potential gold mine.
MoeGates
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#3 Posted on 3.3.02 2151.06
Reposted on: 3.3.09 2153.44
This is where you can separate the good writers and bookers from the bad. There's been a lot of times when a great angle's been set up and a main player (or 2 or 3) gets hurt, and it ruins the show.

However, one of the facts of the business is that people get hurt. A lot. If the writers have produced enough backstory and character depth, and maybe thought of a contingency scenario or two, this stuff can be written around and sometimes really succesfully. The WWF has been doing a great job of that.

This, in my opinion, is what really sunk the WCW. They'd have something going, and then a main player would get hurt and they'd panic. For instance, Bret vs. Goldberg (I think) had the potential to be a really good, drawn out, top-card feud. But when one (and then the other) got hurt, the whole top card fizzled and they couldn't recover.
BigDaddyLoco
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#4 Posted on 3.3.02 2213.15
Reposted on: 3.3.09 2215.03
It's not hard to replace a maineventer that goes down when you have three promotions worth of maineventers on one roster.
Raptor
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#5 Posted on 4.3.02 0310.57
Reposted on: 4.3.09 0315.09
"It's not hard to replace a maineventer that goes down when you have three promotions worth of maineventers on one roster."

That being said, what's the approximate chance in hell that there'll be a main eventer slot open for Benoit any time in the next eon when he does return?

I'm guessing not very much, sadly.
Omega Red
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#6 Posted on 4.3.02 0840.27
Reposted on: 4.3.09 0849.14

    Originally posted by MoeGates
    This is where you can separate the good writers and bookers from the bad. There's been a lot of times when a great angle's been set up and a main player (or 2 or 3) gets hurt, and it ruins the show.

    However, one of the facts of the business is that people get hurt. A lot. If the writers have produced enough backstory and character depth, and maybe thought of a contingency scenario or two, this stuff can be written around and sometimes really succesfully. The WWF has been doing a great job of that.

    This, in my opinion, is what really sunk the WCW. They'd have something going, and then a main player would get hurt and they'd panic. For instance, Bret vs. Goldberg (I think) had the potential to be a really good, drawn out, top-card feud. But when one (and then the other) got hurt, the whole top card fizzled and they couldn't recover.



What really hurt WCW in that situation was the Radicalz, Goldberg and Hart went down, they changed to main event at the PPV to Benoit Vs Sid for the World Title, Benoit wins, then jumps ship (along with the other 3) before Nitro. I lost so much of the respect that I used to have for those 4 guys after that. What did they claim? They left because they were tired of being held back? Hello, you were the World Champion, you went over the resident monster clean, how is that being held back? IMO, that's what ruined the "Radicalz" angle, they didn't leave over being held back, they left because they were selfish, and there isn't anything different or "radical" about that.
SeVen ™
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#7 Posted on 4.3.02 0907.21
Reposted on: 4.3.09 0916.54
Omega, I suggest you brush up on your history. There was way more to that story then "being held back".
WTF13
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#8 Posted on 4.3.02 0926.40
Reposted on: 4.3.09 0929.09
What bothers me is that by the time Benoit returns, there may be little difference between the WWF and the WCW that he left. I'm really hoping he and Jericho can pick up where they left off--not necessarily get the tag team going again, but at least work together.
Omega Red
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#9 Posted on 4.3.02 0941.50
Reposted on: 4.3.09 0953.44

    Originally posted by SeVen
    Omega, I suggest you brush up on your history. There was way more to that story then "being held back".


Why don't you educate me then? I'd like to know what the guy who held the companies highest prize had to complain about. I hope this is something better than the Kevin/Nancy Sullivan story.
SeVen ™
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#10 Posted on 4.3.02 1022.04
Reposted on: 4.3.09 1029.02
I will in a few hours unless someone beats me to it. I'm waiting on a co-worker to get synched so we can kill some nazis in Medal Of Honor AA
Hokienautic
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#11 Posted on 4.3.02 1237.37
Reposted on: 4.3.09 1241.20
Omega, there are a lot of people here who have been around longer than you. They've posted to this board for a loooong time, and have the reputation of being a good poster. You? You just have nine posts. They may be pretty good posts, but you don't have that rep built up.

What's that? You don't think your posts at Wienerville are getting the respect they deserve? You're going to go to Frankfurterville instead?? Okay, okay, hold on ... how about we name you Top Wiener, then? If we tell the world we love you will you stay? Huh, huh, will ya? Okay, we love you ... but just in case that doesn't matter to you, let us add the caveat that maybe -- perhaps -- in a way -- we don't REALLY love you.

Now ... do we love you, or no?

The ONLY ONLY ONLY reason Chris Benoit got the title was to try to lure him into staying. Period. And then they pull the whole "hand under the ropes" in a transparent CYA attempt just in case. You know what that tells me? They weren't sincere. I'm sure he saw right through it.

Of course Benoit had something to complain about, and I don't see how you can pooh-pooh the Sullivan/Woman side of things. If some guy stole your wife and you were his boss would you give him the plum assignments? Me neither.

WCW was in a free fall, and many wrestlers were getting the shaft. A number of them were given the opportunity to leave, and these four took advantage of it. To turn your argument around, don't you think it says a LOT about what Benoit thought of his future in WCW is he was willing to leave the gold behind for a fresh start in the WWF?

He was not "the man" in WCW and was never going to get a chance. He was given a cheap win over Sid that had a built-in overturn in a last-minute attempt to suck up when WCW realized these four wouldn't be walked over like so many others were. It was a pathetic attempt, and obviously it didn't work.

It took a while, but I believe Benoit was on the perfect track in the WWF. Yes, it's going to be hard to get there again when he returns, but I'm hopeful he can do it. Had he stayed in WCW, I think it's safe to say he would have lost that title within a week and would have been right back where he was before -- treading water.
Dr Unlikely
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#12 Posted on 4.3.02 1335.52
Reposted on: 4.3.09 1339.07
I don't know about where Benoit would have ended up if he stayed with WCW. Two of the last three champions, both with pretty solid and/or multiple title reigns, were Booker T and Jeff Jarrett, both of whom Benoit had feuded with for extended periods of time. I think he would have been ahead of them (or at least Booker, if Jarrett was a Russo favorite) in the long run.

Of course, in the long run, there's no WCW to speak of now and Booker is in the mid-card in the WWF while Jarrett is "G-O-O-N-E", so Benoit clearly made the right decision from a financial standpoint. There's not much to debate there. But I think you can argue (or at least converse about) what role Benoit coul/would have occupied and whether Saturn and Malenko, if not Eddy, were just as well off in WCW if you take finances out of the equation. I dunno - is wearing a leather apron/dress better or worse than playing a profoundly mentally-handicapped guy who may or may not be having sex with a mop?
Quezzy
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#13 Posted on 4.3.02 1349.47
Reposted on: 4.3.09 1350.37
First of all, I agree with what has been said, WCW's attempt to satisfy Benoit was not very sincere. But also, despite that, the other three WERE being held back even more. Eddy has a combined talent in the ring and on the mic that few can match. Malenko is one of the top mat technicians today and at the very least Saturn is a great tag champion. They were all being held back and chose to leave, Benoit, being friends with them, also left. I think it shows loyalty to friends on Benoit's part that is very absent in the wrestling world today.

Also, WCW has had some great moments and great wrestlers over the years, and I don't want to disrespect what at on time was a great company. But WWF has always been and always will be THE wrestling federation. I bet just about everyone who wants to be a wrestler wants to be in the WWF, wants to be the WWF Champion. So these four guys finally reached that dream of being in THE wrestling promotion. They all wrestled on a Wrestlemania card which I'm sure if you asked them is one of the top highlights of their careers. So for reaching the dream of being in THE wrestling promotion I say good for them.
WTF13
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#14 Posted on 4.3.02 1350.39
Reposted on: 4.3.09 1350.39
I didn't watch the last couple of years of WCW. Was Saturn still doing the leather apron thing then? I didn't know he was even on TV at that point. I don't know what Malenko was doing then either. Even though their WWF careers haven't been that great, you could argue that they got a lot more TV time and exposure than they would have gotten in WCW--even if their respective angles were pretty ridiculous.

I think Benoit made the right move--he wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the push he got had he crossed over to WCW at the same time as everyone else. As far as I'm concerned, no one who came over from WCW last year has made any real impact from a wrestling standpoint, not even Booker, though at least he gets TV time. He's basically a midcarder right now.

Well, I take that back. Chuck Palumbo is half of a moderately successful tag team. But that's about it. Flair and DDP don't really count, since most of what they do is out of the ring.


I should check DDT Digest's search engine, I guess....
vsp
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#15 Posted on 4.3.02 1513.23
Reposted on: 4.3.09 1529.02
First off, just to clear the air, THE QUANTITY OF POSTS DOES NOT IMPLY QUALITY, WISDOM OR INSIGHT IN THOSE POSTS. Someone new can come along and make a valid point in post one; some people I could name have posted prolifically here and still sound like right bleeding idiots most of the time, IMHO.

The higher the rank/post count, the bigger the weiner, and that holds both good and bad connotations. New people with something to say are always welcome. Nobody with a last name other than "Zimmerman" can pull rank around here.
SO ANYWAY.
Flash
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#16 Posted on 4.3.02 1734.57
Reposted on: 4.3.09 1747.01

    Originally posted by WTF13
    I didn't watch the last couple of years of WCW. Was Saturn still doing the leather apron thing then?


Saturn and Malenko were both a part of Shane Douglas' Revolution faction at that point (comprised of Saturn, Malenko, Douglas, Asya, and I believe Benoit as well). All of them were going nowhere in a bunch of curtain-jerking feuds with the Filthy Animals. So aside from Benoit, none of them were leaving much behind in jumping to the WWF.

But the net seems to have a blind spot for Chris Benoit, like the man can do nothing wrong because he is so talented in the ring. Yes, Bookerman Kevin wasn't going to be his best friend... but what the hell should he have expected? He did the man's wife and later knocked her up! Actions like that have consequences and if the idiots running WCW hadn't released him from his contract he would've had to pay a long-overdue bill. I've got no sympathy at all for him there.

Let's also not forget that the other Radicalz had their moments in the sun in WCW. Saturn's feuds (and later reconcilliations) with Raven were awesome, especially for someone who hadn't seen either of them in ECW. "Stinko" Malenko was highly entertaining (more due to Jericho than Dean but he played his part in that feud well). And Eddie Guerrero is still my favorite wrestler.

Have any of those three found themselves in a similarly entertaining position in the WWF? No, Latino Heat doesn't count and neither does Moppy. WCW took these guys and used them as what they are; role players to make stars out of other people. The WWF didn't even go that far. While they obviously made the right choice in the long run (with WCW's sale to the WWF), it's hard to say they've done any better for themselves than they'd done years ago.
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#17 Posted on 4.3.02 1756.25
Reposted on: 4.3.09 1757.40
In defense of Saturn: the dude has a LOT of new tattoos. Does that mean he's being pushed? The "Diesel Push," perhaps!? Oh, the humanity!
Of course, he no longer has the Death-Valley Driver, so I guess he's actually being de-pushed.
Ah hell, who can keep up with it all?
Quezzy
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#18 Posted on 4.3.02 1802.49
Reposted on: 4.3.09 1804.11

    Originally posted by Flash

      Originally posted by WTF13
      I didn't watch the last couple of years of WCW. Was Saturn still doing the leather apron thing then?


    Saturn and Malenko were both a part of Shane Douglas' Revolution faction at that point (comprised of Saturn, Malenko, Douglas, Asya, and I believe Benoit as well). All of them were going nowhere in a bunch of curtain-jerking feuds with the Filthy Animals. So aside from Benoit, none of them were leaving much behind in jumping to the WWF.
    .



Yeah, that's right, Benoit, Saturn, Douglas, and Malenko formed the Radicalz. Benoit left to team with Bret Hart against I think Sid and Steiner? Then Asya joined them later. They feuded with the Filthy Animals (Mysterio, Eddie, Kidman, and Juvy) and were putting on by far the best matches in WCW at the time. And they continued to not really get a push of much significance.



    But the net seems to have a blind spot for Chris Benoit, like the man can do nothing wrong because he is so talented in the ring. Yes, Bookerman Kevin wasn't going to be his best friend... but what the hell should he have expected? He did the man's wife and later knocked her up! Actions like that have consequences and if the idiots running WCW hadn't released him from his contract he would've had to pay a long-overdue bill. I've got no sympathy at all for him there.


True, Benoit got what was coming to him, but personally if i was in the wrestling business I would let my wife nowhere near work.

Malenko did have a US Title run I believe (against Jarrett and Eddy?) as well as Cruiserweight. Benoit held the World, Tag, US, and TV Titles. I remember that Eddy feuded with Malenko over a belt, maybe even more than one, but don't remember which ones, he might have also had a tag team reign with the Filthy Animals. Saturn, held tag and TV titles, don't think he ever won the US Title.

So if you go by how high on the card or their title reigns then Benoit and Eddy have done better in WWF. Benoit, because even though he's never won World Title he's been a contender for much longer. If you go by how good their feuds, storylines, significance has been in the company then the only one doing better is Benoit. However, Saturn, Dean, and especially Eddie, COULD be bigger impact players if utilized right.

vsp
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#19 Posted on 4.3.02 1838.35
Reposted on: 4.3.09 1843.46
In a nutshell: Benoit got hurt, after some solid programs with Jericho and Angle and a pair of title shots. Eddy had his series of health and chemical problems that shut him down. Dean was out of place in the sports-entertainment-heavy WWF -- there's never been a credible lightweight division, his mat-wrestling style and small size didn't fit the heavyweight mold, and he's not exactly a charisma factory. And given the talent pool in the WWF, Perry landed about where he should have -- as stable filler, then in the lower end of the card.

The sad irony is that if they left WCW partially because there was no room in the uppercard... well, the more things change, the more they stay the same. VERY bad injury timing for Benoit.
Hokienautic
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#20 Posted on 4.3.02 2251.16
Reposted on: 4.3.09 2259.01
VSP, just for the record please go back and re-read my post that you responded to about "it doesn't matter how long you've posted here." That post was meant to jokingly explain the Benoit-in-WCW situation -- HE was the "poster" who was new, with other "posters" having more a rep. I wasn't saying anything about the value or lack thereof for new or old posters.
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