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The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Iraqi Foreign Minister to UN: Up Yours Register and log in to post!
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Grimis
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#1 Posted on 17.12.03 1508.09
Reposted on: 17.12.10 1509.53
Ever get the feeling that a liberated Iraq is not going to be a fan of the UN, France, Germany, EU, etc.?

* * * * * * *
Iraqi Minister Scolds U.N. for Inaction Regarding Hussein
By WARREN HOGE
Published: December 16, 2003

UNITED NATIONS, Dec. 16 Iraq's foreign minister, Hoshyar Zebari, accused the United Nations Security Council today of having failed to help rescue his country from Saddam Hussein, and he chided member states for bickering over his beleaguered country's future.

"Settling scores with the United States-led coalition should not be at the cost of helping to bring stability to the Iraqi people," Mr. Zebari said in language unusually scolding for an occupant of the guest seat at the end of the curving Security Council table.

"Squabbling over political differences takes a back seat to the daily struggle for security, jobs, basic freedoms and all the rights the U.N. is chartered to uphold," he said.

Taking a harsh view of the inability of quarreling members of the Security Council to endorse military action in Iraq, Mr. Zebari said, "One year ago, the Security Council was divided between those who wanted to appease Saddam Hussein and those who wanted to hold him accountable.

"The United Nations as an organization failed to help rescue the Iraqi people from a murderous tyranny that lasted over 35 years, and today we are unearthing thousands of victims in horrifying testament to that failure."

He declared, "The U.N. must not fail the Iraqi people again."

It was not immediately clear how the accusatory tone of Mr. Zebari's speech affected the closed-door discussion over the United Nations' role in Iraq that followed, but Secretary General Kofi Annan, the first to emerge from the hall, appeared taken aback.

"Now is not the time to pin blame and point fingers," he told reporters. Saying that Mr. Zebari was "obviously entitled to his opinion," Mr. Annan said that the United Nations had done as much for Iraq as it could under the circumstances and was prepared to do more.

"Quite honestly," he said, "now is not the time to hurl accusations and counter-accusations."

Ambassador Emyr Jones Parry of Britain, the United States' principal ally in Iraq, said there had been pointed questioning by colleagues but that he detected "strong support" from them for the new timetable for the American-led coalition to hand over power to Iraqis by July and for drawing up a constitution and holding elections in the years following that Mr. Zebari had laid out.

Today's session of the 15-member council was called to discuss the speeded-up plan for the United States-led coalition to hand over power to Iraqis by the end of June under an agreement reached a month ago between the coalition and the Iraqi Governing Council.

Mr. Annan led off the open session of the council with a speech drawing from his report last week that ruled out a swift return of the United Nations to Iraq because of the bombing of its Baghdad headquarters in August and continuing attacks on diplomats and relief workers.

He also said the United Nations needed more "clarity" over what it would be asked to do in Iraq before he could fully recommit the world organization and its international staff. He has assigned 40 of them to staff Iraq aid offices in Nicosia, Cyprus and Amman, Jordan. An estimated 2000 Iraqi United Nations workers are still at their posts in the country.

Mr. Zebari took issue with these steps, saying that Iraq could guarantee the United Nations whatever security it needed to return sooner and noting the importance of having the organization back in Baghdad.

"Your help and expertise cannot be effectively delivered from Cyprus or Amman," he said.

He also took on countries like France that have expressed doubts about the current governing group. "As Iraqis," he said, "we strongly disagree with those of you that question the legitimacy of the present Iraqi authorities."

He continued: "I'd like to remind you that the governing council is the most representative and democratic governing body in the region."

He said, "The members of the Security Council should be reaching out and encouraging this nascent democracy in a region well known for its authoritarian rule."

Ambassador Jean-Marc de la Sabliere of France, a critic of the war, turned aside the criticism of the Security Council dissenters, saying, "I don't want to comment on the past." He said he had questioned Mr. Zebari about France's interest in seeing Iraq increase the "inclusiveness" of the government so it would be one that would be viewed as "totally legitimate."

* * * * * * * * * * * *

Sounds like the French and the UN are on the defensive on this one:

Mr. Annan said that the United Nations had done as much for Iraq as it could under the circumstances and was prepared to do more.

What?


(edited by Grimis on 17.12.03 1608)
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JoshMann
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#2 Posted on 17.12.03 1522.06
Reposted on: 17.12.10 1522.14
And you know what part was REALLY impressive?

When he talked while President Bush was drinking a glass of water.
Barbwire Mike
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#3 Posted on 17.12.03 1547.43
Reposted on: 17.12.10 1548.14
    Originally posted by Blanket Jackson
    And you know what part was REALLY impressive?

    When he talked while President Bush was drinking a glass of water.

I couldn't agree less with your position, but that was still the funniest line I've heard all day. Good game.
Nate The Snake
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#4 Posted on 17.12.03 1555.53
Reposted on: 17.12.10 1558.06
I like how he conveniently left out that up until the last ten years or so the UN wouldn't have had a chance in hell to oust ol' Saddam because he was our pet dictator.

Hopefully he doesn't have his head stuck so far up GW's ass that he hasn't forgetten who funded that murderous tyranny in the first place. I mean, since he's pointing fingers and all.
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#5 Posted on 17.12.03 1603.56
Reposted on: 17.12.10 1605.35
    Originally posted by Nate The Snake
    I like how he conveniently left out that up until the last ten years or so the UN wouldn't have had a chance in hell to oust ol' Saddam because he was our pet dictator.

    Hopefully he doesn't have his head stuck so far up GW's ass that he hasn't forgetten who funded that murderous tyranny in the first place. I mean, since he's pointing fingers and all.


I have no problem with his comments. But, c'mon Grimis, the governemnt is made up of our boys. What did you expect him to say. His points are valid and I actually agree with most of his statements. The UN preaches human rights out of one side of its mouth and then pees their pants when they can, you know, actually help a people.

Nate, I agree. He was our boy for a long time against Iran. He was a rat bastard but he was our rat bastard. Our inability to try and understand the dynamics at play in that part of the world never ceases to amaze me.
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#6 Posted on 17.12.03 2057.20
Reposted on: 17.12.10 2058.13
The real question here is: How long will the Iraqi people tolerate being a puppet state? How many more US ass kissing sessions will the Iraqi foreign minister be able to deliver before his people are up in arms again? This is a fine line we tread, and I hope GW and company make some wise decisions regarding it. Nobody likes being the pawn, and we're working in an area where people blow themselves up just to show you how much they don't like you.

-Jag
Nate The Snake
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#7 Posted on 17.12.03 2359.54
Reposted on: 18.12.10 0000.10
    Originally posted by Jaguar
    The real question here is: How long will the Iraqi people tolerate being a puppet state? How many more US ass kissing sessions will the Iraqi foreign minister be able to deliver before his people are up in arms again? This is a fine line we tread, and I hope GW and company make some wise decisions regarding it. Nobody likes being the pawn, and we're working in an area where people blow themselves up just to show you how much they don't like you.

    -Jag


Exactly, Jag... sooner or later, someone's going to remember that being under our oh-so-benevolent umbrella isn't exactly a new thing, nor is it necessarily a good thing. They're going to have to do some fancy slight-of-word to keep people convinced that golly gee, no, this time we really, really, honestly do have your best interests in mind.

And I have serious doubts that the current administration can be that subtle, considering the way they've operated so far.
PalpatineW
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#8 Posted on 18.12.03 0400.32
Reposted on: 18.12.10 0400.58
    Originally posted by Nate The Snake
      Originally posted by Jaguar
      The real question here is: How long will the Iraqi people tolerate being a puppet state? How many more US ass kissing sessions will the Iraqi foreign minister be able to deliver before his people are up in arms again? This is a fine line we tread, and I hope GW and company make some wise decisions regarding it. Nobody likes being the pawn, and we're working in an area where people blow themselves up just to show you how much they don't like you.

      -Jag


    Exactly, Jag... sooner or later, someone's going to remember that being under our oh-so-benevolent umbrella isn't exactly a new thing, nor is it necessarily a good thing. They're going to have to do some fancy slight-of-word to keep people convinced that golly gee, no, this time we really, really, honestly do have your best interests in mind.

    And I have serious doubts that the current administration can be that subtle, considering the way they've operated so far.


You, sir, are an idiot.

The difference between Hussein and not-Hussein is so bloody vast that I think the Iraqi people are going to notice. They'll notice that there aren't any mass graves anymore. No more state-sponsored rape.

Your argument seems to boil down to: "Well, we did bad things in the past, therefore any good we do now is irrelevant." Or maybe just, "I hate Bush, so I'm going to look for whatever drawback I can to the deposition of a brutal tyrant."

Edit: Here's a helpful analogy for you. It's like before, we were paying people to torture poor Iraq. But now we're sending Iraq boatloads of Thai hookers. There's no fucking subtlety involved.

(edited by PalpatineW on 18.12.03 0501)
DrDirt
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#9 Posted on 18.12.03 0851.05
Reposted on: 18.12.10 0852.12
    Originally posted by Jaguar
    The real question here is: How long will the Iraqi people tolerate being a puppet state? How many more US ass kissing sessions will the Iraqi foreign minister be able to deliver before his people are up in arms again? This is a fine line we tread, and I hope GW and company make some wise decisions regarding it. Nobody likes being the pawn, and we're working in an area where people blow themselves up just to show you how much they don't like you.

    -Jag


The best way to keep moving forward is to rebuild the infrastructure ASAP, plentiful food cheap, and get a constitution and government up and running ASAP. And as soon as practical, start minimizing our presence, at least make it less obvious. This is a minefield where one wong step and boom. There will always be those fanatics, no matter what we do, who will go immediately to violence to expel the infedel and their puppets.

And palp, you may not agree with Nate, but he isn't an idiot. We must stop ascribing our sensibilities to other peoples. We may think that way. It doesn't mean they do.
Nate The Snake
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#10 Posted on 19.12.03 1459.45
Reposted on: 19.12.10 1459.52
    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    You, sir, are an idiot.


Classy.

    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    The difference between Hussein and not-Hussein is so bloody vast that I think the Iraqi people are going to notice. They'll notice that there aren't any mass graves anymore. No more state-sponsored rape.

    Your argument seems to boil down to: "Well, we did bad things in the past, therefore any good we do now is irrelevant." Or maybe just, "I hate Bush, so I'm going to look for whatever drawback I can to the deposition of a brutal tyrant."

    Edit: Here's a helpful analogy for you. It's like before, we were paying people to torture poor Iraq. But now we're sending Iraq boatloads of Thai hookers. There's no fucking subtlety involved.

    (edited by PalpatineW on 18.12.03 0501)


I won't sink down to your level here, so I'll just say this: stop putting words in my mouth, and try actually reading my post.

My statement was basically "we did bad things in the past, therefore they may not be terribly inclined to trust us once the flush of victory wears off." As DrDirt said, the best thing we can do is make things as stable as possible and back the fuck off, to show them that we intend to, you know, GIVE THEM THEIR COUNTRY BACK.

I'll try explaining this simply. Once they do get a stable government in place, it's quite possible that the Iraqi people will start being concerned that all we've done is install one puppet to take the place of the old one that didn't turn out like we wanted it to. The "fucking subtlety" comes in convincing the people of the state we liberated and continue to have a military presence in that no, this is your country, we're just keeping the peace until you can do it on your own, then we'll be on our way. And given the iffy way that the current administration has handled matters of diplomacy so far, I have grave doubts that they'll be able to manage that.
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