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21.5.11 0023
The 7 - Pro Wrestling - Heidenreich/Edge/Booker
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#1 Posted on 3.12.03 2129.03
Reposted on: 3.12.10 2129.33
So the new big dude has worked a bit sloppy and injuried poor Stevie Richards.

But people seem to forget that Edge injured some dude (for the life of me, I don't remember who) on his television debut and Booker T injured Austin on his WWF debut. I don't recall anybody demanding their release after these incidents. So my question is, why aren't people choose to wait a few months before forming an opinion?
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Lap cheong
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#2 Posted on 3.12.03 2141.59
Reposted on: 3.12.10 2142.18
Because it's well known from people who've seen OVW that the guy isn't ready. Plus, this man has injured the same man twice in a row, in a matter of a few weeks. I'm not sure about Edge, but people knew what type of worker Booker T was when he debuted. And the injury he caused was from a stupid spot, as he had to throw Austin into a table with moniters and other equipment on it, which he wasn't able to clear because of the nature of the run-in. So he threw Austin beyond the moniters, which just happened to be too far. He injured him while trying to protect him. That was a stupid spot. Heidenreich has injured someone from basic wrestling moves, which he obviously hadn't learned to perfect executing.

I'm not saying that Heidenreich doesn't deserve a chance to prove himself in the ring. However, I can see why people would jump on the guy over it.
Dave Gagnon
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#3 Posted on 3.12.03 2142.18
Reposted on: 3.12.10 2142.35
Because smarks are full of shit?

And, by the way, from what I remember, a LOT of people demanded the release of Edge when he injured one of the Boricuas.

(edited by Dave Gagnon on 3.12.03 1943)
Boudin blanc
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#4 Posted on 3.12.03 2143.07
Reposted on: 3.12.10 2146.29
If I remember correctly, Edge's opponent (a member of Los Boriquas, I don't know which) got injured when he hit the floor after going over the top rope, so I'm not sure that it was due to any negligence on Edge's part.

In regards to Booker T and Austin, that was certainly Booker's fault (and he's said so himself) but it wasn't due to Booker T being sloppy, he just got overhyped and through Austin a little too far. Not to mention, it was an announce table spot, I believe, which is just begging for injuries to begin with. Not to mention that Booker T had already more than proved that he wasn't the sort of person who would put someone at risk due to his own laziness.

In Heidenreich's case, he already had the proverbial heat with the IWC due to this general lack of ability and Stevie having a lot of sympathy due to the fact that he busts his ass for the company and generally gets shat on in return. Had Heidenreich injured some random jobber, it's unlikely it would have gotten nearly as much a response.
Head cheese
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#5 Posted on 3.12.03 2201.10
Reposted on: 3.12.10 2203.13
John Heidenwhatever sucks. Its that simple. He isnt a wrestler, but hes big and blonde and if there is one thing Vinny Mac loves its big dumb blonde guys...BROTHER!!!
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#6 Posted on 3.12.03 2206.54
Reposted on: 3.12.10 2207.25
I clearly remember Edge's debut. In fact, in a sick way, my roomate found it funny that one of the Boricuas got injured by the Johnny Come Lately Edge.

Edge was executing a Somersault Plancha, when he fully rotated, his leg came down on Boricua Jose Estrada Jr.'s head. Right on top of it. If you played it in slo-mo (and yes, we watched it in slo-mo), you could see his neck compress and tilt to one side.

In the little wrestling circle I hung out in at the time, we were calling Edge, "Crippler."

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#7 Posted on 3.12.03 2301.57
Reposted on: 3.12.10 2302.35
My only prob with this guys is he boreing and I think he needs to fine something better and maybe drop the last name.
Boudin blanc
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#8 Posted on 3.12.03 2338.52
Reposted on: 3.12.10 2341.28
    Originally posted by ThreepMe
    Edge was executing a Somersault Plancha, when he fully rotated, his leg came down on Boricua Jose Estrada Jr.'s head.

Well, I wasn't entirely wrong. SOMEBODY went over the top rope! I do remember thinking it would be neat if there was someone who won all their matches by count out. Later, I read about the Berzerker and realized that I was wrong.
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#9 Posted on 3.12.03 2342.27
Reposted on: 3.12.10 2342.52
If he drops Hnnrnnr, then he'll just be John. Maybe Big Johnny?

The IWC knows that shit happens. You get in the ring, you take your chances. It's the people involved that makes this meaningful. I still have no idea why Stevie is stuck where he is.
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#10 Posted on 4.12.03 0457.58
Reposted on: 4.12.10 0458.11
Heidenreich sucks I dont know why vinni signed him
there is nothing in him that says he is wwe material, he sloppy in the ring got 0 charisma and will go no where,
they get a guy like Heidenreich but they tell Buff that he is not wwe material... what's up with that?
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#11 Posted on 4.12.03 0552.04
Reposted on: 4.12.10 0553.48
Buff didn't just work a bad match, he had a real bad backstage attitude. Still does, from what I hear.
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#12 Posted on 4.12.03 1053.54
Reposted on: 4.12.10 1054.43
Unlike Heidenreich, Booker had worked in another company for years without major incidents of hurting someone through bad work. So people were willing to give him a break (unless he forgot to tell them he was sorry for breaking their back.)

Edge, after doing that tope and huring Jesus Castillo*, did not have a TV match for a month. IOW, they did not bring him back a week or so later and have him do the same match with Jesus with the same risky spots and pray that last time was a fluke. Edge, to my immediate recollection, has not done a tope or a tope like move (though maybe a much safer pesacdo) since then.

The other thing is that Edge (through build up vignette and direct Sting/Raven rip off sitting in the stands bits) and Booker were actually over (or close to it) when they debuted, so there was reason to keep putting them on TV despite their early mistakes (though Edge went back into the crowd and for run-ins.) They could've easily taken Jon off TV for a month - and maybe off the road - and not suffered the slightest hint of damage.

The way I'm thinking about it, it's not as much a problem that Heidenreich wrestled again, it's that they did spots that have a legitimate amount of danger if not performed right, with a guy who didn't perform right previously. You can do a fine match without an electric chair suplex.

The whole match was to show how strong Jon is, but at the same time, no one's built Stronger than Mark Henry on the roster, and he only does one move that seems very risky (the running sit on the ropes, which has little to do with strengh).

They could've done the whole thing safer (or not at all!), but instead they went for a big spot to try to get attention (on HEAT! What a pointless idea) and it blew up in their faces and I'm sorry if I think everyone involved is stupid for being involved, but I do.

* - being the son of (one of the) Hurrican Castillo's, you'd think Jesus would know the responibility on the dive is for him to make sure everyone ends up safe - even on the fastest scariest looking Topes Of Death I've seen, it's always the guy who's getting hit who's trying to catch the guy hitting him so he doesn't land bad, while trying to make the impact look neat.

The actual problem might have been that the WWF ringside area just wasn't big enough for that kind of move. Ringside didn't have padding then, just the big metal guardrails and not really a lot of room for flying around (which seemed to cause some problems in the TAKA/Sasuke match the year before) unless you're aiming up the ramp, which is why 99% of the dives head that way. Often, lucha shows have no barrier between the seats and ringside, so you have more room to work with and seats (and people) don't hurt as much as steel barriers that aren't moving. I think here, neither guy just realized what the situation was, and so the problem was less in the excution of the move and more in the planning.
Lap cheong
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#13 Posted on 4.12.03 1118.46
Reposted on: 4.12.10 1120.06
Injuries if they happen because the guy it way to green I could see why people would get upset. I like the reference to Vader and Mick Foley in Mick's first book. The match where Vader accidently tore his ear off. It wasn't Vaders fault the ropes were to tight. Yet Vader still cried about it. From what I heard that was the last time he cried about someone being injured though. Yet the best advice I ever reiceved from my trainer when I was in wrestling school was, "Don't try anything you don't know". I've learned that's how most times you get hurt in the ring. I agree with thecubsfan it was probably pointless.
Nate The Snake
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#14 Posted on 4.12.03 1424.59
Reposted on: 4.12.10 1425.01
The Edge thing seems like more of a case of people being just that much out of position... if Jose'd been a few inches to one side he wouldn't have gotten hit like he did. Reminds me of the accident in the Shane/Test match a few weeks ago.

Gotta agree with cubs, here. It was a pointless risk taken with a guy far too green to be taking those kinds of risks. Maybe the big lug doesn't realize his own strength, maybe he's just a klutz... whatever the reason, the first time was one time too many, especially with a guy who's had neck problems before.
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#15 Posted on 4.12.03 2302.42
Reposted on: 4.12.10 2302.56
I think the backlash has mostly to do with the general unreasonable expectation of the hardcore fan. There are tons of movie fans who crap on anything not new and/or Kubrick, and the wrestling fans are exactly the same. Yes, they'd make excuses for another wrestler making those mistakes, but that said, it is completely unacceptable to be injuring the same guy in consecutive matches. I can't remember the last time I heard of anyone doing that. That alone is justification for demotion.
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#16 Posted on 5.12.03 0041.33
Reposted on: 5.12.10 0045.12
When it comes down to it there no need to do all these high spots. Years ago we was glued to the TV watching the story told in the ring. We would sit there watching Bret,Shawn,Austin,Mick, and Undertaker (to name a few) tell great story in the ring with out all this big spots. I know it's old school, but it is something that I think is missing so much from wrestling today.

Now someone said why is Stevie stuck where he is this is what I think, Vinni is blind right now. He see them dollars signs so much that he doesn't see that it slipping away and he thinks that he is king of the hill which he is , but it's a hill getting smaller. There a ton of guys that a good in the WWE, but if you notice all the good guy (beside Brock, Angle, and Cena) are guys from other companies. Brock came from no where and is a champ, but what about Benoit if there was one man that should be champ it is him. It took Jericho how long before he was a champ and it's been how long sence? WWE has problems and someday they be fix sorry I went on a rant.
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#17 Posted on 5.12.03 0401.35
Reposted on: 5.12.10 0403.32
because trolls like to bring up crap like this along with the IWC or smark buzzword?

austin's table spot= very dangerous.
somersault suicide dive= not just a cute name and edge dropped it after that match.

the electric chair can be dangerous, and moreso because John didn't fall back with stevie. I really doubt anyone's going to call buhbuh and d'von careful/cautious/lowrisk but they know that for the Dudley device.

Doesn't help that he reportedly got a new deal either...

Pike, there was just as much dangerous stuff, only it was more outside the ring stuff. the lack of transition/just using things to burn time doesn't offset getting suplexed a bunch of times.

(edited by darkdragoon on 5.12.03 0224)
It's False
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#18 Posted on 5.12.03 0416.43
Reposted on: 5.12.10 0417.23
I remember the night Edge nearly killed Jose Estrada on that somersault plancha. But notice that Edge never used the move again since. You can't say the same thing about John Heidenreich, who's STILL using the electric chair drop in his arsenal. And as one of his finishers, no less!
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