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Grimis
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#1 Posted on 3.12.03 1335.11
Reposted on: 3.12.10 1338.17
Mark Shields of CNN makes a very compelling case that NY Attorney General Elliot Spitzer should get the nod. Frankly, I agree with his reasoning. It would certainly bring a level of gravitas to the ticket.

Of course, I doubt Spitzer would take it.

* * * * * * * * *
The inevitable vice presidential nominee
Tuesday, December 2, 2003 Posted: 11:51 AM EST (1651 GMT)

WASHINGTON (Creators Syndicate) -- To hear the wise words of Democratic pollster Peter D. Hart is to understand why American voters on the eve of 2004 distrust, mistrust and scorn so many major American institutions.

"Begin with scandals at the United Way and the Red Cross; mismanagement of both the peoples' money and their blood," he says. "Then the Olympics, where winners are always decided -- even at the 1936 games in Munich under Hitler's shadow -- on the field of competition, we discover that at Salt Lake City the results were rigged."

Add to those: sexual abuse of children by Catholic priests; prestigious stock brokers urging their customers to buy stocks that the brokers' own analysts privately ridicule; respected accountants cooking the books of big clients; The New York Times admitting that its news stories were hoaxes; Tyco, WorldCom, Enron, the list goes on.

The present skepticism has been, sadly, earned. The pervasive suspicion, a reporter encounters repeatedly, that those with power and privilege, as a matter of course, do not play by the same rules and that they cheat the rest of us who are powerless.

In this grim environment, Democrats in the next few months will choose a candidate to oppose President George W. Bush. That Democratic nominee will then practice either micro-politics or macro-politics in choosing a running mate.

In micro-politics, the nominee focuses on a major state or constituency in naming a number two, such as a governor who could "deliver" his battleground home state.

The macro approach would be to choose for vice president an individual who helps politically beyond a home state and the selection of whom sends a positive message about the presidential nominee, himself.

In 1980, Ronald Reagan certified his self-confidence by asking his principal opponent for the nomination -- just as John Kennedy had dared to do in 1960 -- to join his ticket.

If the Democratic presidential nominee in 2004 dares to go macro, then his running mate could be the one public man who has shown the guts, the brains and the will to take on the Class War Criminals who have fleeced millions of Mom and Pop investors.

He has exposed the secretive and sleazy practices of Wall Street investment houses and the sleazy and secretive practices of major mutual fund companies. With manifest courage, he has time and again taken on the richest, the most influential and the most politically connected white men in America.

It could be said of him, as Gen. Edward Bragg said in nominating President Grover Cleveland, " (T)hey love him most for the enemies he has made."

To run for national leadership, you should first have a compelling personal story to tell. New York State Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, 44, has one great story.

He has been the lone cop on the beat, the Sheriff of Wall Street. He and the exceptional staff he leads went through nearly 95,000 pages of Merrill Lynch emails to document the phony recommendations the brokerage's analysts were foisting on unsuspecting customers to buy a company's stocks so that the brokerage house could keep the company's lucrative investment banking. Merrill Lynch paid $100 million in fines.

There are 95 million Americans who invest in mutual funds, a $ 7 trillion industry. Eliot Spitzer and Massachusetts Secretary Of State William Galvin have blown the whistle on the outrageous practice of mutual funds allowing big, favored clients to buy, after the market's 4 p.m. closing, a company's stock at a lower price.

This, in spite of the fact that the company after the 4 p.m. closing had issued a favorable earnings report that guaranteed that the stock's price would climb the next day, thus guaranteeing the insiders a windfall profit at the expense of the 95 million ordinary folks.

Critics have faulted him for letting Merrill Lynch -- which had profits totaling $7 billion in the three preceding years -- off too easily. Nobody went to jail. Detractors criticize him for grandstanding.

Conservatives who have ardently endorsed the transfer of power from Washington to the states now accuse Spitzer of poaching on federal jurisdiction -- choosing to ignore the absence of enforcement from the Bush Securities and Exchange Commission or Department of Justice. But his office's case against 12 investment banks produced $1.4 billion in fines.

Spitzer has hit Wall Street malefactors where they hurt the most -- in the pocketbook and the press. You can be confident that if there were any scandals in Spitzer's background, his well-heeled enemies would have used their considerable resources to find and reveal them by now.

To convince ordinary Americans that they are really on their side, committed to fighting for them, Democrats can name Eliot Spitzer their vice presidential nominee.

Promote this thread!
MoeGates
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#2 Posted on 3.12.03 1900.40
Reposted on: 3.12.10 1902.42
This guy obviously doesn't live in New York.

1) Spitzer's running for Governor. And it's a pretty big step from State Attorney General to V.P. anyway.

2) Spitzer's the kind of guy that does good in New York. He's bald, nebbishy, sarcastic, he's a little like a younger version of Ed Koch or Al D'Amato. These people do not do well in Presidential Politics. Nor fo they do anything like ad "gravitas."

3) As for the Wall Street scandle stuff, he does that more to make a name for himself and an issue to run on than because he's "looking out for the little guy" or anything. He's a politician, so it's normal. And already you're seeing a ton of oppo research being done on that stuff. The fact is, in New York, and in general, you are going to be able to find something (no matter what) that can be made to make it look like the guy gave someone a break when he didn't give it to someone else, let a friend off the hook when he shouldn't have, took money from an unsavory character, that sort of thing. If he gets nominated for Veep on this issue the GOP oppo research team will eat him alive in a month - as they would do to most anyone who a New York politician. The game here is different from the rest of America, and what flies here does not in Peoria.
Grimis
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#3 Posted on 4.12.03 0602.49
Reposted on: 4.12.10 0603.27
All interesting points Moe. I knew Spitzer was running for Gov. and that's why he wouldn't take the slot. It hurts him to run for Governor if he's 2nd mate on the Titanic in 2004.

Incidentally, I had dinner with a Democratic friend of mine last night and even she was fascinated with the thought of Spitzer being on the ticket.
DrDirt
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#4 Posted on 4.12.03 0839.28
Reposted on: 4.12.10 0840.24
Let's say that Dean is the nominee. Typically the Dem's select a VP who will help them in a region of a country that the Pres. nominee is weak in or that shores up a part of the party uncomfortable with the Pres. nominee. Spitzer may help with the later but does a NE ticket help the Dem's. I would think it would hurt in battleground states in the midwest.
redsoxnation
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#5 Posted on 4.12.03 0852.52
Reposted on: 4.12.10 0853.41
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    Let's say that Dean is the nominee. Typically the Dem's select a VP who will help them in a region of a country that the Pres. nominee is weak in or that shores up a part of the party uncomfortable with the Pres. nominee. Spitzer may help with the later but does a NE ticket help the Dem's. I would think it would hurt in battleground states in the midwest.






The only reason they would go to Spitzer is if the Democrats were scared that New York could be put in play by the Jewish vote bailing out on (not our)Dean due to his Israeli/Palestinian policies. I think all of us can agree if the Democrats even have to put up a fight for New York, they are screwed, so Spitzer being the VP would be a signal that the Democrats are running a Goldwater '64 suicide mission, but don't want to risk a necessary state during the kamikaze mission.
As for Democratic VP candidates who could help in a close race, they need a Rust Belt Democrat who could help them secure Michigan/Illinois/Pennsylvania and force Bush to have to fight for Indiana and Ohio. With 270 as the magic number, the Republican's can't afford to lose Ohio (or even have to spend resources and time there), much as the Democrats can't afford to lose Illinois.
DrDirt
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#6 Posted on 4.12.03 1015.15
Reposted on: 4.12.10 1017.02
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
      Originally posted by DrDirt
      Let's say that Dean is the nominee. Typically the Dem's select a VP who will help them in a region of a country that the Pres. nominee is weak in or that shores up a part of the party uncomfortable with the Pres. nominee. Spitzer may help with the later but does a NE ticket help the Dem's. I would think it would hurt in battleground states in the midwest.






    The only reason they would go to Spitzer is if the Democrats were scared that New York could be put in play by the Jewish vote bailing out on (not our)Dean due to his Israeli/Palestinian policies. I think all of us can agree if the Democrats even have to put up a fight for New York, they are screwed, so Spitzer being the VP would be a signal that the Democrats are running a Goldwater '64 suicide mission, but don't want to risk a necessary state during the kamikaze mission.
    As for Democratic VP candidates who could help in a close race, they need a Rust Belt Democrat who could help them secure Michigan/Illinois/Pennsylvania and force Bush to have to fight for Indiana and Ohio. With 270 as the magic number, the Republican's can't afford to lose Ohio (or even have to spend resources and time there), much as the Democrats can't afford to lose Illinois.



Agreed about New York. Who is the Rust Belt pol out there who would fit here and help the ticket? Ou here in Kansas no name springs to mind. I know people have said Clark would work with his military background, but that only makes sense as long as he doesn't open his mouth. Plus his military buds don't seem to have muh love for him.
Grimis
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#7 Posted on 4.12.03 1054.45
Reposted on: 4.12.10 1056.12
Rust Belt names to consider(and remember, these are going to be very ambitious people who can afford the loss and want to take one for the team):

Rep. Marcy Kaptur(OH)
Rep. Bobby Rush(IL)
Rep. Janice Schawkowsky(IL)
Sen. Debbie Stabenow(MI)


Remember this too: Discounting VPs running for reelection, The last time Democrats did not pick a sitting US Senator was 1984(Ferraro); the last time they did not pick a member of Congress was 1972(Sargent Shriver, after they picked Sen. Thomas Eagleton), and the last time they won without a sitting US Senator was Herny Wallace(SecAg) for FDRs 3rd term(1940)(incidentally, also the last time they did not have a member of congress at all)

The picks
2000: Lieberman
1996, 92: Gore
1998: Bentsen
1984: Ferraro
1980: 76: Mondale
1972: Eagleton, then Shriver
1968: Muskie
1964: Humphrey
1960: Johnson
1956, 52: Kefauver
1948: Barkley
1944: Truman
1940: Wallace
1936, 32: Garner
spf
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#8 Posted on 4.12.03 1126.10
Reposted on: 4.12.10 1126.43
The Dems will NEVER EVER EVER nominate Bobby Rush for the VP nomination, not even if every other Dem in elective office died simultaneously. The man was a Black Panther. Unless the new electoral strategy is "we never want to win another election in anyone's lifetimes."

Schakowsky would be an interesting pick, but not likely as she's fairly to the left of the party, and my hunch is that they will want a conservative leaning person to balance should Dean win the nomination. If he hadn't had such an ugly first year I would say they might have tried to give Gov. Rod Blagojevich of IL the monster push to the VP, but he can't even get along with the Sec. of State of his own party.

Personally if I'm the Dems, I go with Bob Graham. The Dean campaign is already making gestures of friendliness to him, so it wouldn't surprise me in the least.
Grimis
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#9 Posted on 4.12.03 1130.36
Reposted on: 4.12.10 1132.34
Fair enough on Rush, I wasn't familiar with his past.

Incidentally, NYT is reporting that Clark is considering Spitzer for some roles.

Of course, Clark won't make it that far.
DrDirt
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#10 Posted on 4.12.03 1225.10
Reposted on: 4.12.10 1226.41
    Originally posted by Grimis
    Fair enough on Rush, I wasn't familiar with his past.

    Incidentally, NYT is reporting that Clark is considering Spitzer for some roles.

    Of course, Clark won't make it that far.


Grimis, what about someone form further west? I don't know if the Dem's can win back flyover country in any form but maybe somebody from Iowa, Missouri. Or try to make a dent in the south. With the changing demographics, pairing Dean with a pol from GA or NC. Maybe even Tennessee (no NOT Gore). Occassionally, you pick a candidate that you beat for the nomination but none of them would seem to help and seem to have no support.
redsoxnation
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#11 Posted on 4.12.03 1521.03
Reposted on: 4.12.10 1525.36
    Originally posted by DrDirt
      Originally posted by Grimis
      Fair enough on Rush, I wasn't familiar with his past.

      Incidentally, NYT is reporting that Clark is considering Spitzer for some roles.

      Of course, Clark won't make it that far.


    Grimis, what about someone form further west? I don't know if the Dem's can win back flyover country in any form but maybe somebody from Iowa, Missouri. Or try to make a dent in the south. With the changing demographics, pairing Dean with a pol from GA or NC. Maybe even Tennessee (no NOT Gore). Occassionally, you pick a candidate that you beat for the nomination but none of them would seem to help and seem to have no support.





The problem with those states are:
Only name in Iowa I can think of is Harkin, and he's way to far to the left to help balance the ticket.
Gephardt is always a possibility, but I still don't discount him stealing the top spot on the ticket with the super delegates he already has in his back pocket.
North Carolina they are going to have trouble retaining Edwards Senate seat, so its doubtful they'd throw a possible Senate saver into the VP mix.
Georgia is trending Republican. Most of the name Democrats have either been from the far left and thus worthless nationally, or to conservative for the Democratic Party to stomach.
If Ford was a couple of years older, he would be a possibility from Tennessee.
The general election is going to come down to these states (at least as of now): Michigan, Missouri, Florida, Oregon, Pennsylvania, New Mexico, Minnesota, Arkansas, Tennessee, Wisconsin. Those are the 10 key 'in play' states that things will come down to in November '04. If either side wins 7 of those states, they'd really have to screw up their core states in order not to win the White House.
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#12 Posted on 4.12.03 1640.44
Reposted on: 4.12.10 1641.30
    Originally posted by redsoxnation





      The problem with those states are:
      Only name in Iowa I can think of is Harkin, and he's way to far to the left to help balance the ticket.
      Gephardt is always a possibility, but I still don't discount him stealing the top spot on the ticket with the super delegates he already has in his back pocket.
      North Carolina they are going to have trouble retaining Edwards Senate seat, so its doubtful they'd throw a possible Senate saver into the VP mix.
      Georgia is trending Republican. Most of the name Democrats have either been from the far left and thus worthless nationally, or to conservative for the Democratic Party to stomach.
      If Ford was a couple of years older, he would be a possibility from Tennessee.
      The general election is going to come down to these states (at least as of now): Michigan, Missouri, Florida, Oregon, Pennsylvania, New Mexico, Minnesota, Arkansas, Tennessee, Wisconsin. Those are the 10 key 'in play' states that things will come down to in November '04. If either side wins 7 of those states, they'd really have to screw up their core states in order not to win the White House.


    Thanks for the names. When I lived in Ohio we saw every candidate during the primaries and afterwards were bombarded with ads and visits until the election. Hell my high Political science class got to meet candiates for national office. Now living in Kansas, we don't exist at the national level. We even cancelled the presidential primary because the Republican controlled legislature thought it was a waste of money. The sad thing is they were probabley right.

    Why can't either party think outside the box and go after area they think untouchable? Really, if a Dem's in office people in areas like where I live are screwed because we never vote Dem. And if a Republican s elected were still pretty screwed becasue they know we vote Rep. no matter what. There has got to be a better way to get the candidates and the public in touch with each other so people feel more empowered to give a crap.

    These threads are interesting, even stimulating but maybe too esoteric.
Grimis
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#13 Posted on 4.12.03 1944.03
Reposted on: 4.12.10 1947.30
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    These threads are interesting, even stimulating but maybe too esoteric.
Probably. Hell, I had dinner with friends last night and we talked about this and who would run for Governor of Maryland in 2010.

Of course, we are all political insider types, so that's probably why.
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#14 Posted on 4.12.10 2243.20
    Originally posted by MoeGates

    3) As for the Wall Street scandle stuff, he does that more to make a name for himself and an issue to run on than because he's "looking out for the little guy" or anything. He's a politician, so it's normal. And already you're seeing a ton of oppo research being done on that stuff. The fact is, in New York, and in general, you are going to be able to find something (no matter what) that can be made to make it look like the guy gave someone a break when he didn't give it to someone else, let a friend off the hook when he shouldn't have, took money from an unsavory character, that sort of thing. If he gets nominated for Veep on this issue the GOP oppo research team will eat him alive in a month - as they would do to most anyone who a New York politician. The game here is different from the rest of America, and what flies here does not in Peoria.


Not too shabby. You didn't quite name the scandal, but you did get "hook" in there. Foreshadowing? B^)

Of course, the guy they did pick has had some impressive work in that field, too. And the Senate streak Grimis outlined is still alive.
MoeGates
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#15 Posted on 5.12.03 1931.53
Reposted on: 5.12.10 1931.54
Some insights into the "Spitzer/Jewish/New York" thing.

a) Dean's position - even with the comments - are well within the mainsteam of American Jews. Maybe even to the right. Don't mistake the professional political Jewish establishment with the Jewish vote. We're talking about a group that in the last presidential voted more Democratic than every other major demographic group except blacks, and I think they only beat us by 8%.

b) The more right-wing Jews are the non-costal ones. There's the folks guys like Foxman, et. al. are talking about (don't even get me started on these guys). Republican Presidential Candidates - and every GOP political guy I know here agrees with me - wil never get more than 30% of the New York Jewish vote. And that's if Arlen Spectre's running against Cynthia McKinney

d) to insinuate that the Jews will automatically vote for the Jewish guy is insulting. And untrue. Look at Lieberman's numbers.

I agree the electoral key
for the Dems is the Industrial Midwest and Appilacia. Marcy Kaptur's a very interesting choice. An Old-School blue-coller, union Democrat is the best choice. I still don't think the Dems have a hope in hell in Ohio though.
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#16 Posted on 5.12.03 2101.44
Reposted on: 5.12.10 2108.07
    Originally posted by MoeGates
    d) to insinuate that the Jews will automatically vote for the Jewish guy is insulting. And untrue. Look at Lieberman's numbers.

    br>







I wasn't even looking at Spitzer being Jewish. I was focusing more on the fact that as an elected statewide official in New York, he'd probably be able to maintain the Democratic base within the state if the Democrats went into kamikaze mode. Unless Hillary is considered, there are no other plausible statewide New York Democrats, as demonstrated by the farce Gubernatorial campaign between McCall and Cuomo in '02 against a tepid Pataki.
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#17 Posted on 7.12.03 2119.55
Reposted on: 7.12.10 2120.24
There are two previously unmentioned candidates who would be excellent choices. The first is Evan Bayh, two-term Indiana governor and current U.S. Senator - a moderate and principled Democrat that might help to carry some of the "Rust Belt" states. He probably still couldn't get Indiana for the Dems, and he has publicly acknowledged his lack of desire for a national race, and if the candidate ends up being a member of Congress and not Dean he probably wouldn't be an outstanding choice (two Washington insiders on the same ticket - bleh), but he has remained one of my favoite Democrats as a typically conservative political junkie. Another would be Jay Rockefeller from West Virginia, a state Democrats must carry in 2004, and one of a few states that cost Al Gore the presidency. If Rockefeller were going to run for a national office by now, he probably would have, but it's a thought.

It's a shame that only natural-born citizens can serve (which will prevent Ahhhnold from any future Cabinet or VP spot), because another excellent outsider would be Gov. Jennifer Granholm of Michigan.

I wonder if Zell Miller would be available? :-)

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#18 Posted on 8.12.03 0459.36
Reposted on: 8.12.10 0459.45
Bayh has too much potential to take the slot. He could be a legit presidential candidate, and like I said previously he doesn't want to be 2nd mate on the Titanic.

After Memogate, Rockefeller is damaged goods.
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#19 Posted on 8.12.03 0646.36
Reposted on: 8.12.10 0646.43
Good Morning America is reporting that Hillary Clinton may play a factor in the race. I think she'd be better suited to run in 2008.
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#20 Posted on 10.12.03 0812.33
Reposted on: 10.12.10 0812.35
    Originally posted by revike3
    It's a shame that only natural-born citizens can serve (which will prevent Ahhhnold from any future Cabinet or VP spot),









      Foreigners can be in the Cabinet. Albright was foreign born, yet secretary of state. The thing that happens though is they are skipped over in the line of succession.
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