The W
Views: 99027907
Main | FAQ | Search: Y! / G | Color chart | Log in for more!
19.9.07 0305
The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Upswing in the Economy? Register and log in to post!
Pages: 1 2 Next(1197 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
User
Post (35 total)
ThreepMe
2-time W of the Day!
Level: 53

Posts: 360/641
EXP: 1100503
For next: 56623

Since: 15.2.02
From: Dallas

Since last post: 3667 days
Last activity: 3326 days
#1 Posted on 25.11.03 1002.02
Reposted on: 25.11.10 1002.16
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news? tmpl=story&ncid=&e=3& u=/ap/20031125/ap_on_bi_go_ec_fi/economy_5

I know we have many debates about who claims credit for upswings/downswings in the economy. This report gives credit to the "Bush Administration." But then again, this is a positive report, so I would try to claim credit on it as well.

In a sick way, I'm almost hoping that the economy doesn't get better before next November. That way people think it's Bush's fault for all the recession.

At this point I would rather have a retarded monkey in the Oval Office than Bush. (not that anyone would notice the difference)
Promote this thread!
Grimis
Scrapple
Level: 124

Posts: 2503/4700
EXP: 21501149
For next: 335513

Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1235 days
Last activity: 1032 days
#2 Posted on 25.11.03 1010.03
Reposted on: 25.11.10 1010.15
    Originally posted by ThreepMe
    In a sick way, I'm almost hoping that the economy doesn't get better before next November. That way people think it's Bush's fault for all the recession.
Wow, there's a way to show caring for your fellow American. "Hey I hope you stayed unemployed so we can win the election."

Not as bad as some of these assholes but still.
ThreepMe
2-time W of the Day!
Level: 53

Posts: 361/641
EXP: 1100503
For next: 56623

Since: 15.2.02
From: Dallas

Since last post: 3667 days
Last activity: 3326 days
#3 Posted on 25.11.03 1026.21
Reposted on: 25.11.10 1026.35
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by ThreepMe
      In a sick way, I'm almost hoping that the economy doesn't get better before next November. That way people think it's Bush's fault for all the recession.
    Wow, there's a way to show caring for your fellow American. "Hey I hope you stayed unemployed so we can win the election."

    Not as bad as some of these assholes but still.


Please note the "almost" part. Then note the joke following. Some might say it was a "setup."

But I guess if you have to explain the joke it wasn't that funny to begin with.

Come on Grimis, have some semblance of a sense of humor. :)
Mawngo the CHango
Cotto
Level: 15

Posts: 25/38
EXP: 14968
For next: 1416

Since: 15.7.03
From: Beverly Hills, CA

Since last post: 3942 days
Last activity: 3942 days
#4 Posted on 25.11.03 1028.37
Reposted on: 25.11.10 1028.47



Money matters gettin a little better for a few weeks ain't jack yo. Even here in BH where money is mad fly, still doesn't mean anything. Get the shrubbage out and move the blazij in.

Watch droppin that Ahole word homie. Fowl language isn't goodie.
spf
Scrapple
Level: 132

Posts: 2516/5402
EXP: 27051808
For next: 80196

Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 50 days
Last activity: 1 day
AIM:  
#5 Posted on 25.11.03 1042.15
Reposted on: 25.11.10 1042.35
    Originally posted by Mawngo the CHango



    Money matters gettin a little better for a few weeks ain't jack yo. Even here in BH where money is mad fly, still doesn't mean anything. Get the shrubbage out and move the blazij in.

    Watch droppin that Ahole word homie. Fowl language isn't goodie.


What in the blue hell did you just say? Seriously, I feel like I'm looking at a Charles Bernstein poem, all the letters look familiar, but they don't seem to mean anything. Can you please translate this?
redsoxnation
Scrapple
Level: 152

Posts: 3094/7534
EXP: 43572781
For next: 728981

Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 445 days
Last activity: 445 days
#6 Posted on 25.11.03 1046.23
Reposted on: 25.11.10 1046.30
    Originally posted by spf2119
      Originally posted by Mawngo the CHango



      Money matters gettin a little better for a few weeks ain't jack yo. Even here in BH where money is mad fly, still doesn't mean anything. Get the shrubbage out and move the blazij in.

      Watch droppin that Ahole word homie. Fowl language isn't goodie.


    What in the blue hell did you just say? Seriously, I feel like I'm looking at a Charles Bernstein poem, all the letters look familiar, but they don't seem to mean anything. Can you please translate this?






spf and I don't agree on much in the Politics folder, but I have to say I agree with him 100% here.
Mawngo the CHango
Cotto
Level: 15

Posts: 27/38
EXP: 14968
For next: 1416

Since: 15.7.03
From: Beverly Hills, CA

Since last post: 3942 days
Last activity: 3942 days
#7 Posted on 25.11.03 1224.38
Reposted on: 25.11.10 1227.27
(deleted by CRZ on 25.11.03 1203)
RYDER FAKIN
Six Degrees of Me
Level: 63

Posts: 158/960
EXP: 2015662
For next: 81501

Since: 21.2.02
From: ORLANDO

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 8 days
AIM:  
#8 Posted on 25.11.03 1313.50
Reposted on: 25.11.10 1315.57
Money matters gettin a little better for a few weeks ain't jack yo. Even here in BH where money is mad fly, still doesn't mean anything. Get the shrubbage out and move the blazij in.

Far be it from me to feed the birds, but this relates to something that I usually bring up when a dicussion of the economy, specifically the unemployment rate, is mentioned...

I think the unemployment rate is perfect at about 5 or 5.5%. There is a certain segment of society that just * shouldn't * hold jobs or be in any kind of position of paid responsibility. Prime example is the late 90's when EVERYONE seemed to be working -

FLEA (ordering a pizza): "Large 2 toppings, Pepperoni and Green Peppers."

One of the 5% that should have been doing something else:
"Chill and hit a dobey, and stop huggin the nuzzles. Peace late."

FLEA: "say what?"

One of the 5% that should have been doing something else:
"Chill and hit a dobey, and stop huggin the nuzzles. Peace late."

FLEA: "thank GOD a recession is coming. Click"

Looks like a majority of society wants to "feel better" and / or get elected on the basis of everyone being employed. I ain't one of them. Money can be made and the country will survive just fine without paying $8 an hour to someone barely coherent enough to pump gas without getting it in their shoe or on your car.

The only bad thing about a good economy is everyone is going to be looking the other way when Ashcroft and his gang comes to get them. People making money, for the most part, go blind to what's happening around them, until it's too late.

FLEA
JoshMann
Andouille
Level: 87

Posts: 48/2159
EXP: 6311804
For next: 80995

Since: 17.11.03
From: Tallahassee, FL

Since last post: 2258 days
Last activity: 2255 days
AIM:  
Y!:
#9 Posted on 25.11.03 1345.32
Reposted on: 25.11.10 1346.24
    Originally posted by RYDER FAKIN
    I think the unemployment rate is perfect at about 5 or 5.5%. There is a certain segment of society that just * shouldn't * hold jobs or be in any kind of position of paid responsibility.



Actually the real red herring in the unemployment numbers is that while the unemployment rate has gone down, it has gone down roughly to the tune of the number of people's unemployment claims that have just RUN OUT.

JoshMann
Andouille
Level: 87

Posts: 48/2159
EXP: 6311804
For next: 80995

Since: 17.11.03
From: Tallahassee, FL

Since last post: 2258 days
Last activity: 2255 days
AIM:  
Y!:
#10 Posted on 25.11.03 1345.32
Reposted on: 25.11.10 1346.24
    Originally posted by RYDER FAKIN
    I think the unemployment rate is perfect at about 5 or 5.5%. There is a certain segment of society that just * shouldn't * hold jobs or be in any kind of position of paid responsibility.



Actually the real red herring in the unemployment numbers is that while the unemployment rate has gone down, it has gone down roughly to the tune of the number of people's unemployment claims that have just RUN OUT.

DrDirt
Banger
Level: 96

Posts: 195/2698
EXP: 8861838
For next: 126981

Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 11 hours
#11 Posted on 25.11.03 1407.29
Reposted on: 25.11.10 1416.55
Flea, we do need a certain level of unemployment and a true 5% would be about right. But the unemployment rate as with so many other government indicies has been tweaked to the point so as to be misleading. Blanket is correct in that when you quit looking for work or you benefits have run out, the government no longer considers you unemployed. The other thing not well reported is what the person makes at their new job as compared to their old job.
JoshMann
Andouille
Level: 87

Posts: 49/2159
EXP: 6311804
For next: 80995

Since: 17.11.03
From: Tallahassee, FL

Since last post: 2258 days
Last activity: 2255 days
AIM:  
Y!:
#12 Posted on 25.11.03 1416.59
Reposted on: 25.11.10 1419.45
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    Flea, we do need a certain level of unemployment and a true 5% would be about right. But the unemployment rate as with so many other government indicies has been tweaked to the point so as to be misleading. Blanket is correct in that when you quit looking for work or you benefits have run out, the government no longer considers you unemployed. The other thing not well reported is what the person makes at their new job as compared to their old job.


Or I'll do you one better, Doc...the jobs that are claimed to be created in the last quarter. Where do they compare to the jobs that have been taken away?

CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator
Level: 213

Posts: 3295/16218
EXP: 141086375
For next: 2280532

Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 4 hours
Last activity: 2 hours
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#13 Posted on 25.11.03 1421.52
Reposted on: 25.11.10 1422.08
    Originally posted by ThreepMe
    In a sick way, I'm almost hoping that the economy doesn't get better before next November. That way people think it's Bush's fault for all the recession.
Perhaps instead of hoping for the worst and also thinking the worst of everybody, there is a more productive tack you could take? Seems like almost anything would be better...

    At this point I would rather have a retarded monkey in the Oval Office than Bush. (not that anyone would notice the difference)
This is outta line...even if you try to wave it away with "whoa, whoa, just a joke, folks" later in the thread because, geez, it ain't even funny so that doesn't really fly.
ThreepMe
2-time W of the Day!
Level: 53

Posts: 363/641
EXP: 1100503
For next: 56623

Since: 15.2.02
From: Dallas

Since last post: 3667 days
Last activity: 3326 days
#14 Posted on 25.11.03 1511.03
Reposted on: 25.11.10 1514.20
    Originally posted by CRZ
      Originally posted by ThreepMe
      In a sick way, I'm almost hoping that the economy doesn't get better before next November. That way people think it's Bush's fault for all the recession.
    Perhaps instead of hoping for the worst and also thinking the worst of everybody, there is a more productive tack you could take? Seems like almost anything would be better...

      At this point I would rather have a retarded monkey in the Oval Office than Bush. (not that anyone would notice the difference)
    This is outta line...even if you try to wave it away with "whoa, whoa, just a joke, folks" later in the thread because, geez, it ain't even funny so that doesn't really fly.


No offense or anything Zed...

Productive? There is nothing truely productive ever going on here. We just debate issues, nothing actually "happens." Therefore there is no productivity. I just stated my opinion in the matter (albeit in a facetious and somewhat humorus way, even if you didn't find it funny).

I don't see what's out of line. I made a comparison between Bush and a retarded monkey. I guess I could make it less facetious by saying that: I find his leadership and administration sub-par and I think his political smokescreens are almost insulting to the populace. I find his inability to give speeches in English histerical. Or, I think that he's been trained to do what his father wants him to do, not unlike a trained monkey.

Or I could just wrap it all up in a simple comparison.

And personally, if you put a picture of a retarded monkey and a picture of Bush next to each other, with those ears poking out, it would be damn funny.

And I'm not thinking the worst of people. I was just referencing the fact that many people blame/give credit to the President for the state of the economy. So...If the economy is bad, then a good portion of the populace will, by default, think its Bush's fault. One more thing against him (IF it turned out that way, not that I ACTUALLY want a bad economy). I just don't like the way he runs things.

And I'm not actually hoping for the worst. That's just plain stupid. That's why I said "almost." Yes people, I actually wish for our economy to be shit for as long as it gets Bush out of office. Come on. A strong economy only helps me and everyone else. Remember, I don't like Bush. I don't dislike the American population. Even if I don't like Bush, I'm, not so stupid to cut off my nose to spite my face.

Geeze, people taking a facetious statement WAY too seriously.
DrDirt
Banger
Level: 96

Posts: 197/2698
EXP: 8861838
For next: 126981

Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 11 hours
#15 Posted on 26.11.03 0824.41
Reposted on: 26.11.10 0824.47
Threep, the White House, no matter who is President gets way too much credit or the economy period. The only way the President affects the economy IMO is as follows. Getting the Congress to pass legislation , proposing a budget that normally bears little resemblance to what they proposed when it is done, appointing the Fed chair, and most importantly to me setting a tone and an example. People might not give the President the blame if he wasn't so quick to take credit when things are good.

Our economy i just too large for any one group or individual to drastically change it, especially in the short term.
StaggerLee
Scrapple
Level: 140

Posts: 648/6293
EXP: 32995071
For next: 291416

Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 2 hours
Last activity: 1 hour
#16 Posted on 26.11.03 1013.16
Reposted on: 26.11.10 1014.55
We are experiencing the largest economic growth since Ronald Regan was in office. Most people would agree that it is because of the Tax Cuts that Bush had pushed through.

Like it or not, there are jobs being created, less new jobless claims, and the GDP is up.

Economy is strong, and projected to grow next year.

Sounds good to me, no matter who is in office, or who can take "credit" for it.
ThreepMe
2-time W of the Day!
Level: 53

Posts: 365/641
EXP: 1100503
For next: 56623

Since: 15.2.02
From: Dallas

Since last post: 3667 days
Last activity: 3326 days
#17 Posted on 26.11.03 1052.54
Reposted on: 26.11.10 1053.58
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    We are experiencing the largest economic growth since Ronald Regan was in office. Most people would agree that it is because of the Tax Cuts that Bush had pushed through.

    Like it or not, there are jobs being created, less new jobless claims, and the GDP is up.

    Economy is strong, and projected to grow next year.

    Sounds good to me, no matter who is in office, or who can take "credit" for it.


The economy isn't stong yet. It's growing...currently.

Granted, it has been showing signs of a strong recovery. Which is good! But we all know how fickle the economy has been lately (as in the last 4 years). We had a tech boom that really boosted us out of the early 90's recession.

I'm hoping that the economy will just grow on its own without assistance of some short term boom. But I think without a steady growing market(s) we will be poised for another cycle of recession.

Hopefully I'm wrong.

Oh, and Dr. Dirt, you're right, the Pres really has little to do with the economy. But since he's our "leader" then, by default, everything is on his shoulders. Good or bad.
DrDirt
Banger
Level: 96

Posts: 202/2698
EXP: 8861838
For next: 126981

Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 11 hours
#18 Posted on 26.11.03 1200.26
Reposted on: 26.11.10 1201.18
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    We are experiencing the largest economic growth since Ronald Regan was in office. Most people would agree that it is because of the Tax Cuts that Bush had pushed through.

    Like it or not, there are jobs being created, less new jobless claims, and the GDP is up.

    Economy is strong, and projected to grow next year.

    Sounds good to me, no matter who is in office, or who can take "credit" for it.


While I might agree that the tax cuts, especially the checks in the mail, provided a short term bump, I don't see how they provide for the "strong" economic growth. IMO, the low fed rates account for alot of it in terms of construction etc. Are there any stuides or articles that prove you assumption? Since alot of the tax cuts passed are just now taking effect or will over the next few years, how have they stimulated the economy?
Corajudo
Frankfurter
Level: 58

Posts: 196/810
EXP: 1517539
For next: 60016

Since: 7.11.02
From: Dallas, TX

Since last post: 72 days
Last activity: 2 days
#19 Posted on 26.11.03 1342.54
Reposted on: 26.11.10 1345.55
    Originally posted by Blanket Jackson
      Originally posted by DrDirt
      Flea, we do need a certain level of unemployment and a true 5% would be about right. But the unemployment rate as with so many other government indicies has been tweaked to the point so as to be misleading. Blanket is correct in that when you quit looking for work or you benefits have run out, the government no longer considers you unemployed. The other thing not well reported is what the person makes at their new job as compared to their old job.


    Or I'll do you one better, Doc...the jobs that are claimed to be created in the last quarter. Where do they compare to the jobs that have been taken away?



First off, with economic data, the indicators (or indices) have not been tweaked so as to be misleading. Much like anything else, it is misleading to simply look at one piece of data or one report and jump to any broad conclusions based on that one piece of data.

Therefore, if you want to get a complete picture of the labor market, you cannot simply look at the unemployment rate, for the reasons stated by Blanket and drdirt. There are three main economic reports that, taken together, will give a pretty nice overview of the labor market. And, if you are only looking at one data series from any one report, then your analysis will be fundamentally flawed. The reports are as follows:

1. The Department of Labor (www.dol.gov) releases the Initial Jobless Claims report weekly, with data available on the following Wednesday. This gives data on new claims for unemployment insurance, so this is where you can find your jobs lost data.

2. The Department of Labor releases the Employment Situation report monthly on the first Friday of the following month. This is where you can find unemployment rate data (currently at 6.0%) and payroll data, which includes employment data (where you can find your jobs created number) and estimates for discouraged workers (people who are not counted as unemployed for reasons I could go into if anyone is interested), which will help further round out whats going on the labor market. This report also contains data on weekly and hourly wages, so we can get an idea of the quality of jobs being created (or not being created), at least in terms of salary.

3. The Department of Commerce (www.doc.gov) releases the Personal Income and Outlays report monthly, around four weeks after the end of the month. This report summarizes total personal income and consumption expenditures. Additionally, it includes data on disposable income so we get a better idea of households true income.

I was going to talk about the folly of looking at any one, good unemployment rate, but this post is long and boring enough as is. If the thread or anyones interest warrants it, then Id be happy to do so.
DrDirt
Banger
Level: 96

Posts: 203/2698
EXP: 8861838
For next: 126981

Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 11 hours
#20 Posted on 26.11.03 1654.36
Reposted on: 26.11.10 1656.10
    Originally posted by Corajudo
      Originally posted by Blanket Jackson
        Originally posted by DrDirt
        Flea, we do need a certain level of unemployment and a true 5% would be about right. But the unemployment rate as with so many other government indicies has been tweaked to the point so as to be misleading. Blanket is correct in that when you quit looking for work or you benefits have run out, the government no longer considers you unemployed. The other thing not well reported is what the person makes at their new job as compared to their old job.


      Or I'll do you one better, Doc...the jobs that are claimed to be created in the last quarter. Where do they compare to the jobs that have been taken away?



    First off, with economic data, the indicators (or indices) have not been tweaked so as to be misleading. Much like anything else, it is misleading to simply look at one piece of data or one report and jump to any broad conclusions based on that one piece of data.

    Therefore, if you want to get a complete picture of the labor market, you cannot simply look at the unemployment rate, for the reasons stated by Blanket and drdirt. There are three main economic reports that, taken together, will give a pretty nice overview of the labor market. And, if you are only looking at one data series from any one report, then your analysis will be fundamentally flawed. The reports are as follows:

    1. The Department of Labor (www.dol.gov) releases the Initial Jobless Claims report weekly, with data available on the following Wednesday. This gives data on new claims for unemployment insurance, so this is where you can find your jobs lost data.

    2. The Department of Labor releases the Employment Situation report monthly on the first Friday of the following month. This is where you can find unemployment rate data (currently at 6.0%) and payroll data, which includes employment data (where you can find your jobs created number) and estimates for discouraged workers (people who are not counted as unemployed for reasons I could go into if anyone is interested), which will help further round out whats going on the labor market. This report also contains data on weekly and hourly wages, so we can get an idea of the quality of jobs being created (or not being created), at least in terms of salary.

    3. The Department of Commerce (www.doc.gov) releases the Personal Income and Outlays report monthly, around four weeks after the end of the month. This report summarizes total personal income and consumption expenditures. Additionally, it includes data on disposable income so we get a better idea of households true income.

    I was going to talk about the folly of looking at any one, good unemployment rate, but this post is long and boring enough as is. If the thread or anyones interest warrants it, then Id be happy to do so.



Well, I was thinking about how we have played with the inflation rate specifically by taking those items out that fluctuate quickly or whatever. In therms of the unemplayment rate, I believe we exclude farm jobs due to their seaonality. Those are the kinds of things I am talking about. The data is out there bt not well reported because we want dramatic 30 second reports instead of the facts.

I guess my premise is that we are losing better paying manufacturing jobs as we move to a more service oriented economy where pay and benefits tend to be less. I am also thinking of the Walmart type jobs where out here, they make sure almost no employees are "full time" to skirt benefits. I have no problem with movng away form an industrial economy, except that I fear we will become too dependent on overseas manufacturing. I also think we need to be concerned abhout older workers who are dumped after a long time in their job. They need rescholed and/or trained to take on newer higher paying jobs. I think our workforce will continue to have problems and hiccups until we start doing a better job educating at the primary level and get all those able and willing into post-primary training or college. As a society we must come to terms with the fact that the economic world is changing and the days of 30+ years at the Ford plant or whatever wiht big benefits and 6 weeks vacation are gone forever.

On the plus side there are amazing opportunities for us as a workforce if we aren't afraid to step off the precipice and stretch ourselves intellectually.
Pages: 1 2 NextThread ahead: New Zogby NH Poll
Next thread: Rumsfled wins an award!
Previous thread: EU body shelves report on anti-semitism
(1197 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Upswing in the Economy?Register and log in to post!

The W™ message board - 7 year recycle

ZimBoard
©2001-2014 Brothers Zim
This old hunk of junk rendered your page in 0.294 seconds.