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OlFuzzyBastard
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#21 Posted on 13.11.03 1159.26
Reposted on: 13.11.10 1201.35
    Originally posted by Tom Tomorrow
    From his blog:

    Gosh, have you ever seen so many panties in a wad?

    Look, the cartoons fair game, of course, and none of this is unexpectedyou make fun of a bunch of bloviators, youre going to get some bloviating. The only thing I really object to is the canard that it was attacking veterans. What it was attacking was pomposity; the self-important rhetoric of those who tell us in flowery language that the mounting death toll is a necessary and even a good thing. No rightie blogger was ever so callous, you say? Well, do you remember the "flypaper strategy"? The idea that the deaths of our troops are a good thing because as long as the terrorists are busy attacking them, they cant come after us?

    And I'm the one who doesn't "support the troops"?
Pool-Boy
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#22 Posted on 13.11.03 1214.20
Reposted on: 13.11.10 1217.37
If I recall correctly, the "Flypaper" strategy was that our presence in Iraq would draw the terrorists THERE to confront us. Not because "the deaths of our soldiers" is fine, because it keeps them from attacking us here, but rather it draws the bastards in the open so we can hunt and kill them.

Perhaps he is just missing the point. The terrorists declared war on us, and began by murdering our civilians at home. I have to ask- which is a better position for us to be in? Sitting here, waiting for another ambitious terrorist to fry 3000 more civilians, or having them engaging our MILITARY. Last time I checked, the point of the military was to defend this country, and its citizens from attack.

Maybe it is me who is just not getting the whole "defense" idea. To me, you put the soldiers in harms way to protect the civilians. So... the "flypaper" strategy is a sound one. Of course, if you listen to him, you would think that we are the only ones suffering losses, that the terrorists are attacking our troops with wreckless abandon, and escaping with no casualites.

After reading his "blog" entry, I have to either assume that the guy is either ignorant, or so partisan that he is willing to look past things like facts and common sense to support his ideology.

This is that line between "anti-war" and "anti-American" that has been hashed over time and time again. Tomorrow is willing to put his own politics over the safety of the country. Criticizing the government and open "debate" (this cartoon does not qualify as debate) about its actions is one thing (and a GOOD thing), but blind opposition to a course of action based on party and not the facts at hand are another thing entirely.

Makes me cherish the few anti-war folks I know who are CAPABLE of discussion in a dispassionate, open-minded manner...
eviljonhunt81
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#23 Posted on 13.11.03 1226.29
Reposted on: 13.11.10 1227.32
How is having our soldiers stand around waiting to be attacked protecting us at all? It isn't seeking to prevent any terrorist attacks, and there is no reason that terrorists can't attack civilians because we have troops in the open in a foreign country. They may be easier targets, but to somehow claim that it is at all preventing terrorist attacks at home is completely ludicrous.
Guru Zim
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#24 Posted on 13.11.03 1235.47
Reposted on: 13.11.10 1236.29
    Originally posted by eviljonhunt81
    How is having our soldiers stand around waiting to be attacked protecting us at all? It isn't seeking to prevent any terrorist attacks, and there is no reason that terrorists can't attack civilians because we have troops in the open in a foreign country. They may be easier targets, but to somehow claim that it is at all preventing terrorist attacks at home is completely ludicrous.


You say this like there is nothing happening in Iraq, other than the US parading a different set of soldiers up in front of a firing line with targets on them, waiting for the Iraqis to attack them.

So do you really believe that US Troops are just sitting around hoping to be attacked, or did you think that was just going to be accepted as the truth without being questioned?

I understand that they are at more risk there than they would be at home - but to dismiss everything that they are doing and ignore the massive changes that are taking place in Iraq is an insult to our military.

Yes, shifting an entire government, training a new army, and rebuilding infrastructure and industry requires massive change. That's why it's not done yet.
CRZ
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#25 Posted on 13.11.03 1333.59
Reposted on: 13.11.10 1335.27
    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
      Originally posted by Tom Tomorrow
      From his blog:

This really just reinforces every stereotype about bloggers I've ever believed.

(Look for the CRZblog SOON)
Jaguar
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#26 Posted on 13.11.03 1356.13
Reposted on: 13.11.10 1359.01
Wait, if you start a blog, does that mean you'll be running for Governor next spring when the new recall goes into effect?

-Jag
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#27 Posted on 13.11.03 1434.25
Reposted on: 13.11.10 1437.39
There's the Democrats for you...

Gray Davis was recalled for Gross Incompotence.

Arnold was elected, decisively, to replace him.

Democrats threated to recall him before he even takes office due to his party, without seeing if he is even going to do the job he was elected for well.

If there ever was a case of "putting acquisition of power before the good of the state/nation," this is it right here.

As to the whole "flytrap" idea, of course the soldiers are not just standing there waiting to be attacked. You can FIND stories about the work they are doin, but you have to hunt really, really hard.

And yes, I think it is effective. Every dollar and every bullet spend trying to engage us in Iraq is one less they can use to attempt something here. "Taking the fight to the enemy" is a perfectly sound strategy...

(edited by Pool-Boy on 13.11.03 1235)
eviljonhunt81
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#28 Posted on 13.11.03 1451.27
Reposted on: 13.11.10 1453.00
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    You say this like there is nothing happening in Iraq, other than the US parading a different set of soldiers up in front of a firing line with targets on them, waiting for the Iraqis to attack them.

    So do you really believe that US Troops are just sitting around hoping to be attacked, or did you think that was just going to be accepted as the truth without being questioned?

    I understand that they are at more risk there than they would be at home - but to dismiss everything that they are doing and ignore the massive changes that are taking place in Iraq is an insult to our military.

    Yes, shifting an entire government, training a new army, and rebuilding infrastructure and industry requires massive change. That's why it's not done yet.


I never said once that our soldiers aren't doing anything in Iraq. What I said is that the "Flytrap" theory is complete bull, as it does nothing to protect us from terrorism at all. There is absolutely no reason to believe that our troops' presence in Iraq is preventing terrorist attacks on the U.S.

(edited by eviljonhunt81 on 13.11.03 1709)
Leroy
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#29 Posted on 13.11.03 1513.53
Reposted on: 13.11.10 1518.24
    Originally posted by Pool-Boy
    There's the Democrats for you...

    Gray Davis was recalled for Gross Incompotence.

    Arnold was elected, decisively, to replace him.

    Democrats threated to recall him before he even takes office due to his party, without seeing if he is even going to do the job he was elected for well.


Jeez - I know you hate the Democrats, but can't you give them even a little credit. Arnold wouldn't have been elected if some Democrats hadn't voted for both the recall and him. I am not a big fan of Republicans, not at all - but even I can find something good to say about one or two of them.

And on a related note, I have yet see any united effort to recall Arnold by any group, much less the Democrats who couldn't get either of their guys elected in the last election. And while I personally think the recall was a horrible idea, no reasonable person I know would seriously suggest wasting even more money. I mean, really...

    Originally posted by Pool-Boy
    And yes, I think it is effective. Every dollar and every bullet spend trying to engage us in Iraq is one less they can use to attempt something here. "Taking the fight to the enemy" is a perfectly sound strategy...


You know, it is possible that they still could be planning to attack us at home (although I think it's delusional to assume they will) - and with all the resources and military occupied with Iraq, it could be said that we are even MORE vulnerable now than we were before 9-11.

Why would they choose to attack a military force when civilians would put up much less of a fight?


(edited by Leroy on 13.11.03 1316)
Pool-Boy
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#30 Posted on 13.11.03 1718.31
Reposted on: 13.11.10 1719.01
Well, when I refer to "Democrats" I am talking about their leadership. Of course some democrats voted for Arnold. But before the election was even held you heard rumblings from the California Democratic party that they were going tio IMMEDIATELY recall Arnold. The only reason that has not started yet is that I dont thing you can actually begin to recall a governor elect until he is sworn in...

And the terrorists... well, they would attack our military for several reasons. One, we are in their back yard- their turf. Secondly, they know that in recent history, the US has had the tendancy to tuck-tail and ruun when things got hairy. To drive us out of Iraq now would be a HUGE boost for them... "Join us, we routed the Great Satan out of Iraq!" And who could blame them? Look at the coverage here. If you went off the news alone, we are suffering massive casualties, while the Iraqis are losing no one. Are troops are standing their like sitting ducks. Instant reputation. "We should give in- the terrorists are unbeatable."

Finally, it is easier to attack an enemy that is right in front of you- cheaper too.

More on topic- I am afraid I have to retract my comment about Tom Toles. Though it is clear he is very left wing, this comic from today pretty well shows that he is willing to criticize his own party- and that is all I am really looking. It is fine to disagree- but when you encounter someone who truly believes their party can do no wrong, it is disturbing to me. Especially cartoons, when you have a cartoonist drawing strip after strip, day after day, ripping the opposite party a new one, ignoring the idiocy in their own camp. I thought they were supposed to make fun of the government, not campaign for a party...
eviljonhunt81
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#31 Posted on 13.11.03 2350.25
Reposted on: 13.11.10 2350.30
I never said that terrorists didn't attack the military either!!! Reading the news will tell you that happens every day. I said that our military over there is no detterant for terrorist attacks on America.
vsp
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#32 Posted on 14.11.03 0545.03
Reposted on: 14.11.10 0546.11
An entertaining summary of the whole Tom Tomorrow furor, with an ending we could all learn from:

Seriously, if you actually care about any of this bullshit, burn your computer.

The blogosphere disgusts me.
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