redsoxnation
Scrapple
Level: 149
   
Posts: 3010/7527
EXP: 41058959
For next: 276276
Since: 24.7.02
Since last post: 13 days
Last activity: 8 hours
|  #1 Posted on 30.10.03 0846.28
Reposted on: 30.10.10 0847.00 | www.redsox.com
I know Manny can be a baby. I know he'll throw a temper tantrum at some point during the season. But, at minimum you're getting a .320 35 110 guy, who on a really good season can go .350 48 150. If you want to dump him, eat part of the salary and at least get something back for him instead of letting some team (gee, the Yankees need an outfielder), pick him up and place him in the middle of their line-up without giving up anything. | Promote this thread! |             | Grimis
Scrapple
Level: 122
Posts: 2399/4700
EXP: 20292626
For next: 345446
Since: 11.7.02
From: MD
Since last post: 748 days
Last activity: 545 days
| #2 Posted on 30.10.03 0940.48
Reposted on: 30.10.10 0945.25 | Or look at it from this perspective; Manny goes to New York and destroys any clubhouse chemistry the Yankees had. Manny was the guy George wanted all along, so maybe they'll take him. But may they don't want to get a Red Sox "retread" either.
I think this was a bold move by Epstein. They can't trade him, so if they can dump him and save $100 million over the next five years,then good for them. Besides, for 2004 you can get three good pitchers for the price of one Manny. And on top of that, it'll get George out of the Vlad sweepstakes to keep the price down for the Orioles to sign him.
(edited by Grimis on 30.10.03 1041) | redsoxnation
Scrapple
Level: 149
Posts: 3012/7527
EXP: 41058959
For next: 276276
Since: 24.7.02
Since last post: 13 days
Last activity: 8 hours
| #3 Posted on 30.10.03 0951.33
Reposted on: 30.10.10 0951.50 | Originally posted by Grimis
And on top of that, it'll get George out of the Vlad sweepstakes to keep the price down for the Orioles to sign him.
(edited by Grimis on 30.10.03 1041)
Ok, so that means the Red Sox give up their clean-up hitter so the Yankees can get another thumper in the line-up (who actually has plate discipline, which they sorely lacked this past season) and the Orioles can improve themselves. Perhaps we can send Lowe and Varitek to Tampa so they can improve themselves and Boston can finish in last, which is probably what Werner and Henry want anyway. Unless this is all being done to free up money to trade for A-Rod, this can only cause disaster; or worse, the resigning of No-Arm.
| calvinh0560
Boudin rouge
Level: 47
Posts: 410/518
EXP: 759943
For next: 6266
Since: 3.1.02
From: People's Republic of Massachusetts
Since last post: 39 days
Last activity: 6 hours
| #4 Posted on 30.10.03 1052.00
Reposted on: 30.10.10 1054.56 | This is a great idea. The problem is that no one will pick him up. There are only 5 teams that could afford him. And since really two of those Team (LA & NYM) are NL teams you can cross them off the list since he cant play the field for much longer. So that leave Baltimore, NYY and the White Sox as and outside chance. And none of those team will be better with Many taking up $20 million of their payroll. The Evil Empire could (and may) but I just don't see Manny doing anything in NY.
Plus 1 Manny = 1 #2 starter + 1 Closer, I like that deal. | Gugs
Bierwurst
Level: 82
Posts: 625/1856
EXP: 5037181
For next: 172068
Since: 9.7.02
From: Sleep (That's where I'm a viking)
Since last post: 530 days
Last activity: 22 hours
| AIM: |  |
| | | Y!: |  |
|
| #5 Posted on 30.10.03 1321.46
Reposted on: 30.10.10 1327.39 | If I'm not mistaken, aren't Vlad Guerrero and Kevin Millwood free agents? I still say that Nomar is the second best SS in the league, so if you can: picture this line-up:
CF Johnny Damon
SS Nomar Garciaparra/2B Not Todd Walker (Luis Castillo?)
2B Todd Walker/SS Nomar Garciaparra
LF Vladimir Guerrero
1B Kevin Millar
DH David Ortiz
RF Trot Nixon
3B Bill Mueller
C Jason Varitek
SP Pedro Martinez
SP Kevin Millwood
SP Derek Lowe
SP Tim Wakefield
SP John Burkett/Jeff Suppan/BK Kim/Bronson Arroyo/Casey Fossum
RP Mike Timlin
RP Scott Williamson
RP Alan Embree
Not bad, I'd say. Not bad at all. | redsoxnation
Scrapple
Level: 149
Posts: 3013/7527
EXP: 41058959
For next: 276276
Since: 24.7.02
Since last post: 13 days
Last activity: 8 hours
| #6 Posted on 30.10.03 1357.43
Reposted on: 30.10.10 1359.01 | Originally posted by gugs
If I'm not mistaken, aren't Vlad Guerrero and Kevin Millwood free agents? I still say that Nomar is the second best SS in the league, so if you can: picture this line-up:
CF Johnny Damon
SS Nomar Garciaparra/2B Not Todd Walker (Luis Castillo?)
2B Todd Walker/SS Nomar Garciaparra
LF Vladimir Guerrero
1B Kevin Millar
DH David Ortiz
RF Trot Nixon
3B Bill Mueller
C Jason Varitek
SP Pedro Martinez
SP Kevin Millwood
SP Derek Lowe
SP Tim Wakefield
SP John Burkett/Jeff Suppan/BK Kim/Bronson Arroyo/Casey Fossum
RP Mike Timlin
RP Scott Williamson
RP Alan Embree
Not bad, I'd say. Not bad at all.
Here are the flaws in that line-up:
The shortstop looked like Wade Boggs in his .259 '92 season the last 2 plus months, and might be like Valentin in that when he went off the juice, the went bad.
Millar, Ortiz and Millar had career seasons, depending on all 3 to do it again is risky.
Vlad Guerrero has had back problems. Not a positive for someone signed long term.
Kevin Milwood is a National League pitcher. Look at the National League pitchers the Red Sox picked up this season. Not that encouraging.
Suppan's gone, Burkett's retired, Arroyo could be a 4-A type pitcher, and Fossum for the 4th season will be looking for the mysterious 3rd pitch.
Ramirez is the one guy who could have a big time season next year and either cover-up guys who slip back to their career standards, or provide the protection in the line-up needed to make those hitters dangerous.
Plus, the Red Sox since the advent of free agency have signed 2 top quality free agents: Bill Campbell in '77 and Ramirez in '01. What makes it probable that they can sign multiple of these in one off-season? | PalpatineW
Lap cheong
Level: 76
Posts: 909/1528
EXP: 3850496
For next: 155583
Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy
Since last post: 2309 days
Last activity: 2152 days
| AIM: |  |
| | |
| #7 Posted on 31.10.03 0052.28
Reposted on: 31.10.10 0052.49 | I'm interested in how much of this is Manny's doing. It's no secret that he wants to play in New York. According to Gammons, Manny approached Theo at season's end and asked for a trade, or to somehow be sent to New York. And this way, if New York takes him, they spend (we hope) a large percentage of their free agent budget for next season. I personally wouldn't care if Manny went to NY, as I think it's a guarantee that NY will get a Manny caliber player no matter what. We might as well benefit from it somehow. Furthermore, I believe in this current management's ability to sign players.
For RSN - Who's the bigger name, Cliff Floyd or Bill Mueller? Who did more for the Sox? Epstein is the wizard of non-tenders, and will put together an excellent team next season just as he did this season. And this time Grady won't be there to crash the plane into the mountain. | Guru Zim
SQL Dejection
Administrator
Level: 135
Posts: 1862/5879
EXP: 29143269
For next: 191812
Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR
Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 day
| AIM: |  |
| | |
| #8 Posted on 31.10.03 0129.36
Reposted on: 31.10.10 0129.52 | This is a pretty bold move. I'm scratching my head here... but I had an interesting thought.
Isn't next year the year they start testing for Roids?
</evil musing> | Sec19Row53
Lap cheong
Level: 75
Posts: 322/1504
EXP: 3760261
For next: 66660
Since: 2.1.02
From: Oconomowoc, WI
Since last post: 15 days
Last activity: 26 min.
| | | Y!: |  |
|
| #9 Posted on 31.10.03 0845.58
Reposted on: 31.10.10 0846.05 | | They actually started steroid testing this year (gee, and nobody hit 50 dingers -- imagine that???). | evilwaldo
Lap cheong
Level: 77
Posts: 1225/1597
EXP: 4096583
For next: 94565
Since: 7.2.02
From: New York, NY
Since last post: 2887 days
Last activity: 2667 days
| AIM: |  |
| | |
| #10 Posted on 31.10.03 0918.52
Reposted on: 31.10.10 0921.49 | Originally posted by Guru Zim
This is a pretty bold move. I'm scratching my head here... but I had an interesting thought.
Isn't next year the year they start testing for Roids?
This year was the start but according to the labor agreement it was going to be in 'filled-out survey' form.
| Sec19Row53
Lap cheong
Level: 75
Posts: 323/1504
EXP: 3760261
For next: 66660
Since: 2.1.02
From: Oconomowoc, WI
Since last post: 15 days
Last activity: 26 min.
| | | Y!: | |
|
| #11 Posted on 31.10.03 0940.15
Reposted on: 31.10.10 0948.57 | Originally posted by evilwaldo
Originally posted by Guru Zim
This is a pretty bold move. I'm scratching my head here... but I had an interesting thought.
Isn't next year the year they start testing for Roids?
This year was the start but according to the labor agreement it was going to be in 'filled-out survey' form.
Not according to how it's been reported on ESPN Radio. I can't vouch for how accurate that is, but it was more than just paper surveys.
Also, it was widely reported in Chicago that early in the season the Chicago White Sox were all going to *not* fill their little sample bottles, thereby failing, and making it more likely that the minimum failure rate would be met. That would in turn have made it more likely to have a higher percentage of testing occur in the 2004 feason. | DrDirt
Banger
Level: 94
Posts: 73/2661
EXP: 8135033
For next: 221655
Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country
Since last post: 9 days
Last activity: 11 min.
| #12 Posted on 31.10.03 1503.20
Reposted on: 31.10.10 1503.28 | Originally posted by Guru Zim
This is a pretty bold move. I'm scratching my head here... but I had an interesting thought.
Isn't next year the year they start testing for Roids?
Manny's contact is for five more years at 20+ million per year. He wasn't picked up but if he were, it would free up big money to address the BoSox shortcomings, especially pitching which will get worse as Pedro, while good, seem to be on the downside of his career. Sounds like they are looking to trade him for little or nothing for those reasons. While his numbers are good, he can be replaced by a better defensive player with respectable numbers. Even the Tejas rangers are shopping A Rod and Manny isn't A Rod.
And yeah, you sort of wonder about the 'roids, especially whith the latest designer drug scandal. Barry and Giambi may be very nervous. | | ALL ORIGINAL POSTS IN THIS THREAD ARE NOW AVAILABLE |
| | | | | | | | | | | | |
