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Grimis
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#1 Posted on 20.10.03 0708.24
Reposted on: 20.10.10 0710.36
Just remember folks; a gun will never defend you from anything(at least listening to a gun grabber)

* * * * * * * * *

Robber's fake gun doesn't fool manager
By AMY WOLFFORD, Staff Writer
News & Record

GREENSBORO -- Ron Simpson knows guns -- and instantly knew the one in front of him Wednesday night was a phony.

Sure, the gun in the hands of the would-be robber at Action Video at 1058 Alamance Church Road had the look of a 9 mm, but Simpson, the manager, said he was "95 percent sure" the muzzle was too small to project a bullet.

"That is not a real gun," Simpson told the robber. "This is a real gun," he said, pulling a .25-caliber derringer from his front-right jeans pocket.

Seconds earlier, the robber had thrown a paper bag on the counter and pulled his version of a gun from his waistband. When Simpson threatened to shoot, the man pulled a rack of gummy bears in front of him for protection.

"Like that's going to stop the bullet," said Simpson, a Vietnam veteran and gun aficionado who carries a concealed-gun permit.

Simpson picked up a cordless phone, dialed 911 and followed the robber outside. The fearful criminal stayed about a minute and ran before police arrived.

Simpson described the robber as a 200-pound black man who appeared to be in his 40s. He was wearing sunglasses, a blue toboggan, dark pants and a gray velour sweat shirt that zipped at the neck. He was last seen running south behind businesses on Liberty Road. Greensboro police continue to investigate.

Simpson carries the gun for protection and admits he's told employees not to risk their lives by fighting robbers. But to him, it was personal.

"Police don't suggest this, I know. But this is me. I'd do it again," he said.
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A-MOL
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#2 Posted on 20.10.03 0734.17
Reposted on: 20.10.10 0735.23
Hmmm...


    Bullet Tooth Tony: So, you are obviously the big dick. The men on the side of ya are your balls. There are two types of balls. There are big brave balls, and there are little mincey faggot balls.

    Vinny: These are your last words, so make them a prayer.

    Bullet Tooth Tony: Now, dicks have drive and clarity of vision, but they are not clever. They smell pussy and they want a piece of the action. And you thought you smelled some good old pussy, and have brought your two small mincey faggot balls along for a good old time. But you've got your parties mangled up. There's no pussy here, just a dose that'll make you wish you were born a woman. Like a prick, you are having second thoughts. You are shrinking, and your two little balls are shrinking with ya. The fact that you've got "Replica" written down the side of your gun. (withdraws his gun) And the fact that I've got "Desert Eagle point five O" written on the side of mine, should precipitate your balls into shrinking, along with your presence. Now... Fuck off!


That's from the film Snatch. And that is pretty much a Crocodile Dundee quote in the story. Sounds a little suspicious to me.
Nate The Snake
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#3 Posted on 20.10.03 0836.41
Reposted on: 20.10.10 0837.37
Wow. That's a great story. I'm going to go out right now and buy a gun. (:

If that story's true, having a gun didn't stop that robbery. His knowledge of guns did. Once it was established, anything from a pointed stick to a knife to a thrown heavy object would've given Shopkeeper Ron an advantage against the robber, who obviously wasn't interested enough in hurting anyone to put up a fight (or he'd have gotten himself an actual weapon.)

Thus your point is somewhat... well, pointless.
Bizzle Izzle
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#4 Posted on 20.10.03 0940.26
Reposted on: 20.10.10 0942.03
    Originally posted by Nate The Snake
    Wow. That's a great story. I'm going to go out right now and buy a gun. (:

    If that story's true, having a gun didn't stop that robbery. His knowledge of guns did. Once it was established, anything from a pointed stick to a knife to a thrown heavy object would've given Shopkeeper Ron an advantage against the robber, who obviously wasn't interested enough in hurting anyone to put up a fight (or he'd have gotten himself an actual weapon.)

    Thus your point is somewhat... well, pointless.


So... the shopkeeper's knowledge of guns kept the robber from assaulting him? Or was it his derringer that kept the robber from assaulting him? You don't know that the robber had no intention of hurting the shopkeeper. Once the shopkeeper refused to submit to the fake gun the robber could have simply started throwing punches. But luckily for Shopkeeper Ron he had his trusty .25 and avoided any kind of physical harm. The 2nd Amendment is such a beautiful thing. Stories like this make me proud to carry my NRA membership card.
Grimis
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#5 Posted on 20.10.03 0942.40
Reposted on: 20.10.10 0944.15
    Originally posted by Nate The Snake
    Thus your point is somewhat... well, pointless.

Ah, but it's not.

The point is the fact that the robber though he could get away with robbing a place with a fake gun. Let's face it, if you were unarmed and couldn't tell the difference, would you have resited? The guy figured that the teller was unarmed and would put up no resistance and get away with it.

Now, imagine the thoughts of the criminal in a completely disarmed country. Wait a minute, they call that England:

Gun crime rises to record level with 200 incidents every week
By Jason Bennetto, Crime Correspondent
17 October 2003

Gun crime in England and Wales rose to record levels in the past year, with nearly 200 incidents every week.

There were 10,250 incidents, including 80 murders, involving firearms in the year to April, 276 (about 3 per cent) more than the previous year and double the number recorded five years ago.

Overall crime has dropped in the past few months, Home Office statistics show, but there is a continuing rise in the number of violent offences recorded by the police.

Public alarm over gun crime has been raised in recent months by a spate of high-profile murders, including a seven-year-old girl shot in the back in London and a shopkeeper killed during a robbery in Nottingham. Police and ministers stress, however, that Britain is still one of the safest places in the world, with one of the lowest levels of gun crime. There were 0.15 gun deaths in England and Wales per 100,000 population in the past year, compared with 3.6 per 100,000 in the US.

Two-thirds of the offences in England and Wales involved the firearm being used as a threat, but in about 17 per cent the weapon was fired causing injury. About two out of three firearms offences took place in three police force areas: the Metropolitan; Greater Manchester and West Midlands.

Yesterday's crime figures sent a mixed message on the subject of violence. Offences recorded by police in England and Wales rose by 9 per cent, or 27,800, in the three months from April to June, but the British Crime Survey, which was also published yesterday and is considered to be a more accurate, indicated that violent crime has fallen by 5 per cent in the same period.
A-MOL
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#6 Posted on 20.10.03 0955.58
Reposted on: 20.10.10 0959.01
...and ask the English and we say 'No guns, thanks'. People in the UK feel safer without everyone having a gun in the houe 'just in case' and that will not change. The rise is due to the hardly any gun crime of a few years ago to a few incidents of now. You'll notice the article also calls us one of the safest countries in the world, so what was the point of posting that article?
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#7 Posted on 20.10.03 1031.44
Reposted on: 20.10.10 1032.41
    Originally posted by Grimis
    Simpson described the robber as a 200-pound black man who appeared to be in his 40s. He was wearing sunglasses, a blue toboggan, dark pants and a gray velour sweat shirt that zipped at the neck.



A blue toboggan? In my neck of the woods, a tobaggan is a big sled for sliding down a hill in the wintertime.
Sec19Row53
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#8 Posted on 20.10.03 1053.09
Reposted on: 20.10.10 1053.15
    Originally posted by pieman
      Originally posted by Grimis
      Simpson described the robber as a 200-pound black man who appeared to be in his 40s. He was wearing sunglasses, a blue toboggan, dark pants and a gray velour sweat shirt that zipped at the neck.



    A blue toboggan? In my neck of the woods, a tobaggan is a big sled for sliding down a hill in the wintertime.

Thanks, pieman. I was going to say the same.

What the hell is a toboggan, if it isn't for sliding on snow and ice?
Grimis
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#9 Posted on 20.10.03 1058.51
Reposted on: 20.10.10 1059.01
    Originally posted by A-MOL
    ...and ask the English and we say 'No guns, thanks'. People in the UK feel safer without everyone having a gun in the houe 'just in case' and that will not change.

Empirical evidence be damned!

    Originally posted by A-MOL
    The rise is due to the hardly any gun crime of a few years ago to a few incidents of now.

That statistics also indicate that outside of Dunblane gun crime was rare before the 1996 ban. And let's face it, an unarmed citizenry means that a Dunblane(or worse) could sprout up at any time.

    Originally posted by A-MOL
    You'll notice the article also calls us one of the safest countries in the world, so what was the point of posting that article?

No, the police and ministers said that. They have to say that lest they lose their phony-baloney jobs and have people realize how dangerous a world without guns is.
Joseph Ryder
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#10 Posted on 20.10.03 1108.13
Reposted on: 20.10.10 1108.32
    Originally posted by Grimis
    ...and have people realize how dangerous a world without guns is.


hahahahahahahaha
Nate The Snake
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#11 Posted on 20.10.03 1113.24
Reposted on: 20.10.10 1113.59
    Originally posted by Grimis
    The point is the fact that the robber though he could get away with robbing a place with a fake gun. Let's face it, if you were unarmed and couldn't tell the difference, would you have resited?


Thus, the shopkeeper's knowledge of what a gun looked like (therefore knowing that the robber was effectively unarmed) was what stopped that robbery. Thank you for reiterating my point.

That still doesn't make your posting of this article make any more sense. Are you arguing for less gun control, so that the poor, foolish robber would have had easier access to a real gun?

    Originally posted by Bizzle Izzle
    So... the shopkeeper's knowledge of guns kept the robber from assaulting him? Or was it his derringer that kept the robber from assaulting him?


The fact that the shopkeeper had a gun makes no difference... he could have had any weapon and still had the advantage here. He could've shouted and had a fairly clear advantage, since the robber was obviously more interested in using the appearance of a threat to get what he wanted. His reaction and a little basic psychology makes that pretty clear.
Grimis
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#12 Posted on 20.10.03 1132.16
Reposted on: 20.10.10 1133.39
    Originally posted by Nate The Snake
    Are you arguing for less gun control, so that the poor, foolish robber would have had easier access to a real gun?

No, I'm arguing for less gun control so the robber might think twice about pulling this kind of shit again.

    Originally posted by Nate The Snake
    The fact that the shopkeeper had a gun makes no difference...
In this case yes. But if it was a real gun and the victim were unarmed, then what? The victim has no chance. Want to talk about psychology? Would you want to rob somebody if there was a 50/50 chance that they had a piece?
ThreepMe
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#13 Posted on 20.10.03 1250.25
Reposted on: 20.10.10 1250.35
    Originally posted by Grimis
    No, the police and ministers said that. They have to say that lest they lose their phony-baloney jobs and have people realize how dangerous a world without guns is.


    Originally posted by Grimis
    There were 0.15 gun deaths in England and Wales per 100,000 population in the past year, compared with 3.6 per 100,000 in the US.


If it wasn't for lack of context...

And BTW, a world without guns would be extremely safe. It's only the fact that guns exist on the scale they do that makes people feel like the need them.

It's called a paranoia induced paradox.

    Originally posted by Grimis
    Originally posted by Nate The Snake
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The fact that the shopkeeper had a gun makes no difference...
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In this case yes. But if it was a real gun and the victim were unarmed, then what? The victim has no chance. Want to talk about psychology? Would you want to rob somebody if there was a 50/50 chance that they had a piece?


If I had the draw on them, yes.

Having a gun doesn't stop others from pulling one on you first. By the time you draw your weapon you're dead.

The only thing you would be worried about (if you're the assailant) is if someone else that you can't see draws their weapon on you. Effectively making it a Mexican standoff.

Unless the other person just opens up and drops that assailant. Then it's effective.

Let's remember, everyone being armed does not stop shootings, armed robberies or other crimes involving guns. Don't believe me, go to your local high crime ghetto. In the ghetto that I grew up in, all the gang members were armed, but they still shot each other. Often actually.

Shop keeps were armed, but that didn't stop armed robberies.

Having everyone know you were armed didn't stop anyone from just pulling out their gun and shooting you in the street.

This one situation just happened to have the right mix of knowledge and foresight to not only know that the gun was fake, but also have a weapon to fight back in a VERY effective way.

This will not always work. It was all just circumstancial.





(edited by ThreepMe on 20.10.03 1108)
Pool-Boy
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#14 Posted on 20.10.03 1428.42
Reposted on: 20.10.10 1429.01
Gun bans, in my opinion, are just stupid. It is a statistical fact that the vast majority of crimes committed with guns are commited by people who obtained their's illegally. No number of bans on guns is going to stop the criminals from getting them- as Grimis's UK story shows.

All a gun ban does is take the weapons out of the hands of law-abiding citizens. Why there is such a rush to punish innocent people is beyond me...
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#15 Posted on 20.10.03 1533.46
Reposted on: 20.10.10 1533.46
    Originally posted by Pool-Boy
    Gun bans, in my opinion, are just stupid. It is a statistical fact that the vast majority of crimes committed with guns are commited by people who obtained their's illegally. No number of bans on guns is going to stop the criminals from getting them- as Grimis's UK story shows.

    All a gun ban does is take the weapons out of the hands of law-abiding citizens. Why there is such a rush to punish innocent people is beyond me...


You're right, banning guns wont work. I am more in favor of banning ammunition. Seriously, most criminals do obtain their guns illegally. My concern is the use of guns in the heat of a given moment. Something most people would take back if theycould. We must come to the realization that we were, are and will be a violent society. It's who we are, both good and bad.

A good way to decrease gun violence and violence in general is to decrease population density. Those of us in flyover country are armed to the teeth with handguns, shotguns, and hunting rifles at a much higher per capita number than those in metropolitan areas and beleive me we have a lot of lower income or no income people. But you don't see the violence.

By the way, I don't own any firearms. I feel safer without them.
Grimis
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#16 Posted on 20.10.03 1549.48
Reposted on: 20.10.10 1550.02
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    You're right, banning guns wont work. I am more in favor of banning ammunition. Seriously, most criminals do obtain their guns illegally.

What makes you so certain that criminals obtaining guns illegally won't obtain ammunition illegally? Ammunitation can easily be made with a chemistry set.
Nate The Snake
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#17 Posted on 20.10.03 1601.52
Reposted on: 20.10.10 1605.01
    Originally posted by Grimis
    No, I'm arguing for less gun control so the robber might think twice about pulling this kind of shit again.


Only problem is, there's no reason to believe that arming shopkeepers would make any difference. It'll stop the cowardly type like this guy was, but the more determined robbers'll be a hell of a lot more likely to just pop the guy behind the counter instead of hold them up if they know they're likely to be armed. It may lower the number of holdups but it'll likely increase the number of actual gunshots.
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#18 Posted on 20.10.03 1605.21
Reposted on: 20.10.10 1605.27
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by DrDirt
      You're right, banning guns wont work. I am more in favor of banning ammunition. Seriously, most criminals do obtain their guns illegally.

    What makes you so certain that criminals obtaining guns illegally won't obtain ammunition illegally? Ammunitation can easily be made with a chemistry set.


It's true. I have an uncle who makes his own ammo. It's actually pretty easy once you know how.

The scary part about that is, if you force criminals to make ammo, they will start getting good at it. Then it will only be a matter time before they start making some high end ammo like teflon coated (body armor piercers), mercury tipped (poison), or shredder rounds (flesh ripping).

Between the lesser of 2 evils, I choose the lazy, less lethal method (buying standard rounds in stores).
TheCow
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#19 Posted on 20.10.03 1613.16
Reposted on: 20.10.10 1614.07
    Originally posted by Grimis
    What makes you so certain that criminals obtaining guns illegally won't obtain ammunition illegally? Ammunitation can easily be made with a chemistry set.


First off, I do agree with Dirt. Secondly, you do have a point. What banning ammo would do is eliminate a lot of "lazy crime" (your story would be a good example); people using guns because they're there. If someone's got to spend a lot of time to either 1) make their own ammo or 2) find illegal sources of ammo, they won't do it unless they really, really want to.

Now, this won't stop hardcore crime; people that will do something, no matter what. I'm not even going to say it will. However, what it COULD do is save a lot of not-serious serious crime from happening. (Once again, this would be robbing a 7-11, etc., etc.)
A-MOL
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#20 Posted on 21.10.03 0419.00
Reposted on: 21.10.10 0419.04
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by A-MOL
      ...and ask the English and we say 'No guns, thanks'. People in the UK feel safer without everyone having a gun in the houe 'just in case' and that will not change.

    Empirical evidence be damned!

      Originally posted by A-MOL
      The rise is due to the hardly any gun crime of a few years ago to a few incidents of now.

    That statistics also indicate that outside of Dunblane gun crime was rare before the 1996 ban. And let's face it, an unarmed citizenry means that a Dunblane(or worse) could sprout up at any time.

      Originally posted by A-MOL
      You'll notice the article also calls us one of the safest countries in the world, so what was the point of posting that article?

    No, the police and ministers said that. They have to say that lest they lose their phony-baloney jobs and have people realize how dangerous a world without guns is.


Dunblane? Our one school shooting, carried out by a sociopath compared to the number of shooting at schools in the totally safe US of A?

I noticed an armed citizenry didn't stop Columbine, but indeed allowed the kids easier access to weapons. Plus, I would rather that four year olds and the people teaching them were not armed, thanks.
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