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cfgb
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#1 Posted on 19.10.03 2107.53
Reposted on: 19.10.10 2110.52
I started a thread upset that The Undertaker defeated John Cena back at Vengeance and my disappointment is not ending here.

What the HELL are they thinking???

I understand not wanting to job guys with titles (IE: the Lesnar job in April) - but Kurt Angle got NOTHING out of this win.

I'm growing greatly disheartened with their inability to show Cena the love. I don't know what's changed. Last summer, they were happy to push the shit out of him out of the gate, giving him a clean win over Chris Jericho at a PPV about 3 matches into his WWE career. Now, he can't find a win anywhere.

Yeah, the match was excellent, but once again the loss takes the wind out of my sails for the evening.

It's growing frustrating watching a guy you not only really dig, but know the FANS are crazy about lose time, and time, and time again. This isn't even a case where you can continue to justify a guy like Benoit losing, because Benoit isn't connecting to the audience like this guy is...

This is why I'm happy to continue spending $10 a week on TNA.

EDIT: And now I'm going to be a GREAT BIG HYPOCRITE and celebrate The Big Show defeating Guerrero.

(edited by cfgb on 19.10.03 2209)
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OMEGA
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#2 Posted on 19.10.03 2116.38
Reposted on: 19.10.10 2120.40
Yeah, I really thought Cena needed this win to be taken seriously as a main-eventer. Angle gained nothing from this, and putting over Cena as the next big star would have benefited WWE much more than the ending they chose.

However, I'm MUCH more upset over Big Show's win over Guerrero. Plus, this is NOT the time for Eddie to be feuding with Chavo. They need to shove this guy to the main event, and do it RIGHT NOW. Their window of oppertunity with Guerrero is closing. And it seems as if by the time they realize what they have with the guy, it's gonna' be locked shut.
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#3 Posted on 19.10.03 2119.15
Reposted on: 19.10.10 2122.30
I dunno. Great match, good moves by both parties in the match and an ending that made sense in the structure of the match. I had no problems with it, and I'm a big fan of Cena. He came off looking great and so did Angle.

To be honest, it's been a pretty decent little PPV so far. Heck, no matter what some fans would say, that audience was going nuts for the Vince-Stephanie match as well.

Jakegnosis
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#4 Posted on 19.10.03 2123.33
Reposted on: 19.10.10 2124.51
I'm fine with cena losing- I never really liked him, anyway, and I don't think he's main-event material at the moment.

But Eddie Guerrero losinf to the fucking Big Show just sucks. I'm so very pissed off about that.

At least Benoit made A-Train tap out. With the sharpshooter, no less.
Excalibur05
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#5 Posted on 19.10.03 2125.31
Reposted on: 19.10.10 2126.10
This match was for Cena what Edge/Cena was for Edge last year. An opening for him to prove that he can go with top level talent both to management and to the fans.

Yes, Cena has had feuds with both Brock and Taker, but in both those feuds he was obviously outmatched, now he's starting to hang with the top guys. In the next step he'll have to prove himself a topshelf guy (by showing the ability to carry a lesser guy), and then he'll start picking up the big wins. It's a whole process.
fuelinjected
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#6 Posted on 19.10.03 2131.50
Reposted on: 19.10.10 2131.50
    Originally posted by Excalibur05
    This match was for Cena what Edge/Cena was for Edge last year. An opening for him to prove that he can go with top level talent both to management and to the fans.

    Yes, Cena has had feuds with both Brock and Taker, but in both those feuds he was obviously outmatched, now he's starting to hang with the top guys. In the next step he'll have to prove himself a topshelf guy (by showing the ability to carry a lesser guy), and then he'll start picking up the big wins. It's a whole process.


I love this type of backwards justification of a guy not being pushed to the top because of his workrate and then when people say a great worker should get a big push, they're shot down because workrate isn't all that important.

This is just on par with everything WWE's done the past two years. Don't strike when a guy is hot and then wait until he's "ready" and can never be that breakout star because people have seen him lose for so long.
Spaceman Spiff
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#7 Posted on 19.10.03 2158.47
Reposted on: 19.10.10 2158.50
What people should be upset at is Gowan going over Hardy. Shannon Moore can beat Zach, but Hardy can't? When the hell are they going to do something w/ Matt?
j9479
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#8 Posted on 19.10.03 2201.44
Reposted on: 19.10.10 2202.24
maybe it's just because i'm in a down mood, but from what i can figure, Vince just doesn't get it.... (yeah, it's a moot point, but stick with me)

I was thinking about this a couple hours ago..... Vince McMahon is only able to make intelligent desicions when he is low on cash..... let's face it; in 1995/1996 he wasn't a billionare, there was another company who was signing away his top guys, and his company was in a rebuilding period so he signed some talent cheap and built the hell out of the talent he had....

now flash forward to the last 2 or so years.... Vince has cash, he's the only major game in town, so when his product is suffering, he is able to stupidly think that his worries can end if only he can get "wrestler X" signed to a contract, and he can cause he's able to match the dollar amount that "wrestler X" can offer. and if he gets this guy that supposedly the fans want to see, then happy days are here again.

And the sad part is that from the NWO/Hogan/Steiner/Goldberg deals Vince has still not realized that John Cena can be the next "Stone Cold" in terms of captivating charisma, and Eddy is super hot, and RVD has the crowd chanting for him even though they, in terms of storylines never should, and Matt Hardy's got a great gimmick, and Rey Mysterio can be all over the card, and Ultimo Dragon has a legendary background, and Benoit can be scripted as the modern day Bret Hart, and Jericho can almost be salvaged, and the company signs up these amazing talents like Paul London, Spanky, etc., and so on, and so on.

The main point is this: Vince has got so much, and amazingly he just doesn't know what to do with any of it.

This is why I root for someone, ANYONE to provide competition.
ShotGunShep
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#9 Posted on 19.10.03 2206.34
Reposted on: 19.10.10 2206.43
I thought Angle/Cena was a very good match. I was very impressed. Kurt took some sick bumps. And I didn't really know who was gonna win or when it was gonna end. That's wrestling.

The point was to show what Cena can do. Kurt will give him respect on the next SD! Maybe start teaming with him(which I started a thread on a while ago).

But it was easily the best match of the night.
Hogan's My Dad
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#10 Posted on 19.10.03 2219.07
Reposted on: 19.10.10 2220.19
I vehemently stand behind Kurt's win tonight. He just lost the title, for God's sake, does he have to lose every friggin' week? The more high-profile losses Angle suffers the worse he's going to look. He has to look out for himself. What good does it do Kurt to put Cena over, make him look like a million bucks, watch Cena move up, only to be no-sold into oblivion by the Undertaker? All that does is make Kurt look like crap. Kurt may not have "needed" the win tonight but he sure as shit doesn't need another loss, particularly to an unproven commodity he's expected to defeat. Now's not the time, and a babyface in his prime isn't the person that should be asked to do that favour.

For what it's worth, look at what Kurt gave Cena tonight. Cena got to look like a badass, he got to look aggressive and he got to look like he could hang. Contrast that with what 'Taker gave him at Vengeance, which is a big pile of absolutely nothing, undercutting him on several occasions. Putting Cena over doesn't mean Kurt has to lose. Cena is more and more over every week. This was Cena's Survivor Series '96 match, with Angle being Bret Hart to Cena's Stone Cold. This match more than any other has announced to the world that John can hang, and it didn't come off like he was being carried (as his earlier matches with Kurt did). So let him grow and improve some more, and then give him his Wrestlemania 13 later. It doesn't have to be now. He doesn't need to be main event right now. We don't need another green main eventer being squashed by Undertaker in every way that matters. John has all the time in the world.

As for Eddy losing, I don't know. Maybe he moves up. Creative is supposed to be high on Eddy. Is now the time to feud with Chavo? No. But maybe after that he moves up. All I can do is keep wondering if "maybe he moves up" because sooner or later, someone has to consider that possibility. But Eddy without the US title is Eddy without one more thing weighing him down in the mid-card. Plus, after that beating Show gave him on SD! it would be obscenely stupid to have had Eddy win tonight.

OMEGA
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#11 Posted on 19.10.03 2222.04
Reposted on: 19.10.10 2222.08
    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
    What people should be upset at is Gowan going over Hardy. Shannon Moore can beat Zach, but Hardy can't? When the hell are they going to do something w/ Matt?


I agree, but I'm just glad they FINALLY gave Gowen a win. I don't care what people say about credibility. This guy could have meant SOMETHING, and they've completely squashed it with him losing to everyone from Vince McMahon to Shannon Moore. At least tonight he looked like something more than a complete jobber. Just too bad it came to the expense of Matt Hardy.
fuelinjected
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#12 Posted on 19.10.03 2228.23
Reposted on: 19.10.10 2229.01
I can dig the argument that Cena shouldn't have beaten Angle because of booking, just not that he shouldn't have won because he's not "ready". I personally don't mind Angle winning in a great match and I'm willing to let it play out.

Now Eddy, on the other hand, should have beaten Big Show after getting destroyed on Smackdown. Why? Because it'd make Eddy this super tough giant killer and put him on his way to the Main Event. It'd make him look super strong and capable of dethroning Brock. Instead, ALL of his cheating, his Frog Splash, everything was ineffective and he lost his title. He just looks like a guy who's not good enough to win anything important.

Now where are they going from here? Vince vs Undertaker at Survivor Series is the plan. At least Steph will be off TV. Still it'll be Vince dominating the TV time, no surprise there. But we also seem to be heading back to Brock Lesnar versus Kurt Angle - AGAIN! Maybe not but who else is ready on Smackdown? Eddy would have been but he looked so weak against Big Show.
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#13 Posted on 19.10.03 2236.38
Reposted on: 19.10.10 2237.42
I'd bet on Lesnar-Benoit, which I bet will freaking rock the Lesnar-Angle matches.
Hogan's My Dad
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#14 Posted on 19.10.03 2245.44
Reposted on: 19.10.10 2245.47
    Originally posted by fuelinjected
    Now Eddy, on the other hand, should have beaten Big Show after getting destroyed on Smackdown. Why? Because it'd make Eddy this super tough giant killer and put him on his way to the Main Event. It'd make him look super strong and capable of dethroning Brock. Instead, ALL of his cheating, his Frog Splash, everything was ineffective and he lost his title.


How? How can you send a guy out there to beat Show when he's an eighth his size? It just would have looked stupid. Super tough isn't Eddy's gimmick, it's not the style he works and it never has been. Pushing everyone like Steve Austin is not the answer to WWE's problems.

Eddy outsmarting Show? Coulda worked. "Super tough" Eddy beating Show down would have looked stupid. My choice would have been never to book this feud in the first place.
fuelinjected
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#15 Posted on 19.10.03 2251.29
Reposted on: 19.10.10 2251.51
I agree that the feud should never have been booked in the first place for this very reason. Eddy is the one who is hot, Big Show isn't and to put Eddy over, Big Show has to look bad. That's a sacrifice I would make in an effort to get Guerrero to the Main Event.

By super tough, I mean resiliant, scrappy, the underdog who doesn't give up. Not a guy who CHEATS but CAN'T WIN!

Guerrero could have outwrestled Show, taken out his legs, something like that. Or sold the whole match, then Show makes a mistake and Guerrero outsmarts him. Or Guerrero cheats to win. Anything other then Eddy cheats the whole match and loses clean.
The Vile1
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#16 Posted on 19.10.03 2303.17
Reposted on: 19.10.10 2306.01
What's wrong with the prospect of a smaller guy like Eddy beating the big show when people like Benoit, Jericho, and even Zach Gowen have been put over the Big Show? I think it was stupid to have Eddy lose b/c it was clear he had tons of momentum and was really rising up. I think a win over the big show would've really cemented his current direction. Now, I dunno.
LotusMegami
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#17 Posted on 19.10.03 2308.16
Reposted on: 19.10.10 2308.54
In the real-world, it is quite possible for a smaller man to defeat a larger man, if he has superior skill. You don't have to be a dedicated fan to realize that.

In McMahon's universe, size and muscle count for everything. In the real universe, it turns out that Jericho (medium-sized) can take down Goldberg (extra large) in under half a minute with injury to no one.
I'm not approving of locker room brawls here, just using it as an example.

I'm a woman. I'm not very big. I'm not very strong. I have, however, studied jujitsu and kempo for 5 years. Trust me to know how much skill and wit can count for.

On a completely different topic: Has Benoit been given the shartshooter as a gift? Or is he just screaming to promotion: "Anybody remember a good way to book good technical wrestlers? How about now?"
Michrome
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#18 Posted on 19.10.03 2315.37
Reposted on: 19.10.10 2318.48
I saw it as kind of a tribute to the Hart Family. I marked out for that finish.
Shem the Penman
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#19 Posted on 19.10.03 2316.49
Reposted on: 19.10.10 2318.56
Lance Storm's used the Sharpshooter too in recent weeks. I guess it's now available to anyone who's Canadian and technical, now that the Rock isn't around to monopolize it any more.

Anyway, didn't see the show, and I won't comment on specifics. But Eddie jobbing to Show is indeed a Bad Thing, unless they go for a Survivor Series rematch (for which I am not holding my breath). Cena/Angle I can tolerate, especially because it doesn't sound like it was a total squash *cough*undertaker*cough*, but what's the point of putting the U.S. title on Show?
Big Bad
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#20 Posted on 19.10.03 2322.57
Reposted on: 19.10.10 2324.38

    This match was for Cena what Edge/Cena was for Edge last year. An opening for him to prove that he can go with top level talent both to management and to the fans.

    Yes, Cena has had feuds with both Brock and Taker, but in both those feuds he was obviously outmatched, now he's starting to hang with the top guys. In the next step he'll have to prove himself a topshelf guy (by showing the ability to carry a lesser guy), and then he'll start picking up the big wins. It's a whole process.


Bullshit. It's only a process for smaller guys, or guys that "can't work," according to geniuses like Triple H or Undertaker. You'll notice that Brock Lesnar was pushed to the goddamn moon before he could ever 'carry a lesser guy' to a good match. WWE reeks of hypocrisy.

In my imaginary world, Eddie cheats to beat Big Show at Survivor Series to win the US belt back, loses it to Big Show again thanks to Chavo-ference at the December pseudo-PPV on Smackdown, wins the Royal Rumble in a Flair-esque iron man performance, beats Big Show on a regular Smackdown non-title match to 'prove Eddie can do it,' fights Chavo at the February PPV (either wins or loses, doesn't matter because of the guaranteed shot) and then wins the Smackdown title at Wrestlemania by beating Lesnar.

Sorry for the fantasy booking, but even Vince has to realize what a hot commodity he has on his hands. Eddie losing the US belt could be the equivalent of Stone Cold losing the IC belt before Wrestlemania XIV.
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