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17.9.07 1039
The 7 - Football - Rush "The Greek" Limbaugh
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Pool-Boy
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#41 Posted on 2.10.03 1329.20
Reposted on: 2.10.10 1331.55
    Originally posted by kgriffey79
    I will hijack this thread if I may. Do you guys think that if a WHITE starting tailback got into the NFL, he would be overhyped? kinda the same thing, ya know?


Doesn't make it any less wrong or racist. If they started hyping a white starting tailback because they really wanted whites to succeed in the position, I would call that racist too.

Heck, so would the rest of the world- nothing wrong with acknowledging and pointing out when whites benefit from racism... only every other race.
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#42 Posted on 2.10.03 1334.37
Reposted on: 2.10.10 1335.11
    Originally posted by Pool-Boy
      Originally posted by kgriffey79
      I will hijack this thread if I may. Do you guys think that if a WHITE starting tailback got into the NFL, he would be overhyped? kinda the same thing, ya know?


    Doesn't make it any less wrong or racist. If they started hyping a white starting tailback because they really wanted whites to succeed in the position, I would call that racist too.

    Heck, so would the rest of the world- nothing wrong with acknowledging and pointing out when whites benefit from racism... only every other race.

GRRRR, please read posts carefully. I didn't say if it was more or less wrong than McNabb. I said WOULD IT HAPPEN. Great white hype style.
And Alstott is a FULLBACK, not a tailback.
sigh...
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#43 Posted on 2.10.03 1350.52
Reposted on: 2.10.10 1351.24
    Originally posted by kgriffey79
    GRRRR, please read posts carefully.


LOL, ROTFLMAO

You went into flipped out fanboy mode when I wrote a sarcastic post trying to defend Limbaugh, so maybe you shouldn't be too hard on others? :)
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#44 Posted on 2.10.03 1613.56
Reposted on: 2.10.10 1616.57
    Originally posted by RYDER FAKIN
    The funniest thing about this - the media *has* pimped McNabb like the second coming of Unitas. Just look at the revisionist history happening as we speak - the following is from just about every columnist and paper I have read...

    "McNabb carried his team to the last two NFC Championships..."

    McNabb BROKE HIS ANKLE last year and didn't play the last six games of last season. The incomparable duo of Koy Detmer and AJ Feely won 5 of the last six games - thanks to what the Philly papers used to call a "stiffling defense". The strong finish gave The Eagles a first round bye and then a Home Game against a very inexperienced Atlanta team. The Eagles won easy, thanks to the DEFENSE nearly pitching a shutout against Vick. This was the game where McNabb returned, to get warmed up for the REAL test the following week against Tampa Bay:

    The Bucs came to Philly and kicked their teeth out. McNabb looked like an amatuer, which, at the time, was blamed on his "rustiness". He could have been 100% and it wouldn't have made a difference. As as matter of fact, the Eagles BEAT Tampa at the Vet earlier that year - thanks to the DEFENSE, who stiffled Tampa. McNabb was 100% and had a totally horrendous game that nearly got him heckled out of Philly. But enough of that...

    My point is - since Rush's comments, McNabb has become an even BETTER Quaterback! *carrying his team* to victory, despite not even playing. And the people saying that are the same people that have blasted Rush - the sports media. It seems to be okay to rewrite history for the benefit of proving a point, which appears to be that Limbaugh is a "racist". That's a heavy word to throw around, especially if you are the type of columnist or talking head who forgets to feign disgust and use the "finger quotes in the air" when saying the word "nigger" on National Sports Television. Rush took the high road on this and resigned -and good riddance...we damn sure can't have any intelligent points of view on Sunday Pregames to get in the way of the genius that is Bradshaw and the up and coming Michael Irvin, who can't go 2 segments without reminding the viewer that he is black - or as he says "a brotha". But that's okay...Irvin was never overrated and didn't need a defense to carry him. He had Troy...

    FLEA




What about the year before, when he was voted 2nd in the MVP race? What about the fact that he has Todd Pinkston and James Thrash as his receivers? What about the fact that Tampa went on and beat the Oakland Raiders last year (so I guess Rich Gannon, Jerry Rice et all are all overated) worse than the Eagles? How about the 36-20 record he has as a starter? And does Jeff Garcia suck now? Is he overrated? And what high road did he take? He resigned because "he felt bad about the pressure and media attention that his collegues at ESPN were getting. He was worried that STEVE YOUNG and MICHAEL FREAKIN' IRVIN couldn't handle media pressure? And this media that wants a black QB to do well, aren't they the same ones who will never let the public forget what a terrible guy Deion Sanders was and Randy Moss is? And why did Philly sign him long term if they had Feeley right there? And hey, McNabb stunk in those two games, and guess what? The Eagles played bad. I wonder if that means that when he plays good, they play well?

Limbaugh made a judgement about a guy after 2 games. 2 games. And then the team goes into Buffalo and beats them. Without Bobby Taylor, Brian Dawkins and Troy Vincent hurt. Limbaugh just proved that he didn't know that much about the game.

In Canada, we have Don Cherry, who says a LOT of things about foreign players far worse than Limbaugh, but he coach the game, played it forever, took the Bruins to a Stanley Cup Final and actually ADDS to the hockey broadcast.

Hey, I'm black, so maybe I'm a little too sensitive about this, but the two most disturbing things about this is that Limbaugh will get more pub out of this and that as McNabb said "I thought this stuff was over with."

(edited by DirtyMikeSeaver on 2.10.03 1415)
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#45 Posted on 2.10.03 1858.53
Reposted on: 2.10.10 1859.01
I'm sure the painkiller stuff is just Rush researching an ESPN piece on Brett Favre.

McNabb gets a lot of hype because he...

a) Plays in a high-profile market
b) Plays the highest profile position in the game
c) Was a #2 draft pick
d) Has had a lot of success thus far in his career

I think his skin colour is a long way down that list.
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#46 Posted on 2.10.03 2030.03
Reposted on: 2.10.10 2031.41
I think that THIS is much more offensive and more on-target with the whole "racially motivated comments about black athletes" than Limbaugh:
http://www.boston.com/dailynews/275/region/Talk_show_host_under_fire_for_:.shtml

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#47 Posted on 2.10.03 2106.31
Reposted on: 2.10.10 2109.21
Cripes....thee is a difference between out and out racism(this clown) and trying to have a logical conversation about race(what most of us try to do in political settings and to an extent what Rush was trying to do)
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#48 Posted on 3.10.03 0258.25
Reposted on: 3.10.10 0259.01
I think it's more of an east coast bias than anything, really. If Jeremy Shockey played for, say, New Orleans and had made comments about, say, Dave McGinnis, calling him a homo, would it have been as big of news? I don't think it would. I think McNabb has been overrated since he first put on an Eagles jersey.

With that said, I wish Limbaugh hadn't made these comments the week before he played the Redskins. He'll probably be all fired up and throw 5 or 6 touchdowns.

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#49 Posted on 3.10.03 0837.41
Reposted on: 3.10.10 0839.30
The only thing suprising here is that it took Limbaugh an entire month to say something ignorant.

I mean, let's take a quick look back at some of the greatest hits...

"Take that bone out of your nose and call me back.", to a black caller disagreeing with him

"Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?"

"The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice robberies."

"They are 12 percent of the population. Who the hell cares?"

From F.A.I.R.:
When Carol Moseley-Braun (D-IL) was in the U.S. Senate, the first black woman ever elected to that body, Limbaugh would play the "Movin' On Up" theme song from TV's "Jeffersons" when he mentioned her. Limbaugh sometimes still uses mock dialect -- substituting "ax" for "ask"-- when discussing black leaders.

Such quotes and antics -- many compiled by Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting (FAIR) for our 1995 book -- offer a whiff of Limbaugh's racial sensibility. So does his claim that racism in America "is fueled primarily by the rantings and ravings" of people like Jesse Jackson. Or his ugly reference two years ago to the father of Madonna's first child, a Latino, as "a gang-member type guy" -- an individual with no gang background.

In 1994, Limbaugh mocked St. Louis for building a rail line to East St. Louis "where nobody goes." East St. Louis is home to roughly 40,000 residents -- 98 percent of whom are African-Americans. One of its 40,000 "nobodies" is star NFL linebacker Bryan Cox.


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#50 Posted on 3.10.03 1113.38
Reposted on: 3.10.10 1115.19
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    I'm sure the painkiller stuff is just Rush researching an ESPN piece on Brett Favre.

    McNabb gets a lot of hype because he...

    a) Plays in a high-profile market
    b) Plays the highest profile position in the game
    c) Was a #2 draft pick
    d) Has had a lot of success thus far in his career

    I think his skin colour is a long way down that list.


My take (as a Philadelphian) is that while a through d are all true,

e) PLAYS FOR A WINNING TEAM

trumps all of the above.

McNabb is far from being a _bad_ QB. His accuracy is often questionable, but his great mobility forces defenses to adjust, and he fits well enough into the Eagles' conservative, no-deep-threats, dink-and-dunk-with-short-passes offensive scheme.

McNabb doesn't win games with big offensive plays; he plays a straightforward, minimize-mistakes scheme that lets the killer defense keep them in games. He has a stud kicker who can get three points out of many drives where other teams would punt. Andy Reid likes to throw in a gadget play about once a week, but apart from that his offensive playbook is pretty simplistic.

So why is McNabb The Next Big Thing[tm]? Because his team has had double-digit wins several years in a row, and went to the NFC Championship game twice. That's how the NFL works -- if your team is going 12-4 and winning playoff games, you're the king of the hill, but if you go 6-10, your national endorsements disappear like cockroaches when the kitchen light snaps on.

He's performed well with a minimal supporting cast; the running game is pedestrian at best (and going by-committee at the moment), the receivers are mediocre, and the offensive line isn't bad. In Reid's system, McNabb doesn't _have_ to do much to prosper, and his speed and running ability complement it well by adding at least one meaningful threat to the arsenal.

Note that when McNabb went down, Detmer looked good in the next game (until HE went down, and Feeley looked good in the next five). Why? They were running almost exactly the same system that McNabb did. Neither Detmer nor Feeley can run like McNabb can... but they didn't need to in that context.

McNabb is still very young, and quite capable of maturing into a truly dangerous package. If he improves his accuracy, gets some better threats to throw to and stays healthy, he has a huge amount of potential, and when he's playing well, he's always fun to watch.

But McNabb could be white, black, brown, blue or purple and all of the above would still be true.
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#51 Posted on 3.10.03 1255.01
Reposted on: 3.10.10 1255.52
Dirty Mike Seaver (in italics

What about the year before, when he was voted 2nd in the MVP race?

I don't know why that matters or why anyone brings that up...second place might as well be 10th place. He didn't win.

What about the fact that he has Todd Pinkston and James Thrash as his receivers?

Marino made a career out of not having anyone really competent to catch his passes. (Anytime after the Duper / Clayton years). Making soup out of shit was the term back then - that's what separates the great ones from QB's like (insert name here)

What about the fact that Tampa went on and beat the Oakland Raiders last year (so I guess Rich Gannon, Jerry Rice et all are all overated) worse than the Eagles?

Yes, Oakland was overrated...all it took was a top notch defense to expose them. I think the Eagles would have stomped Oakland too- because of DEFENSE, not Donovan McNabb. Although, the way Oakland's defense folded to the Bucs (of all teams), McNabb probably would have had Doug Williams type day.

How about the 36-20 record he has as a starter?

That's nice, but he hasn't won anything (i.e. a Super Bowl)...there is some 2nd string 3rd rate quarterback that's been around for years and has an incredible record when he starts (I can't think of who it is at the moment - damn...), but it's a neat stat that most fans (and QB's) would trade for a ring. Hassleback? No...that ain't him...damn.

And does Jeff Garcia suck now? Is he overrated?

Not sure what that has to do with anything. Garcia is mediocre - along the same lines as a Johnson or Dilfer. When he's on, he plays really good...but most of the time he is smart enough not to fuck up, which goes further these days than having an arm like a cannon.

And what high road did he take? He resigned because "he felt bad about the pressure and media attention that his collegues at ESPN were getting. He was worried that STEVE YOUNG and MICHAEL FREAKIN' IRVIN couldn't handle media pressure?

Yeah, you're right.I wrote the post before I heard Rush's lame ass excuse. I figured he would leave and just keep his mouth shut. Steve Young has won Super Bowls and dealt with living in Montana's shadow...Irvin has fought the law and won. I think that trumps a few days of "media attention".

And this media that wants a black QB to do well, aren't they the same ones who will never let the public forget what a terrible guy Deion Sanders was and Randy Moss is?

Good point - that's why the majority of the Sports Media is a bunch of self-serving pricks. I've been a Deion fan since his FSU days and love when the sports press tries to bust his balls - Deion is bulletproof. The whole Moss thing, I have never understood - it seems every year we get 3 "Moss has conquered the demons of his past" stories and then 4 Sunday morning features about how he is more selfish than Keyshawn and more of a cancer that Owens. I wish they would make up their minds.

And why did Philly sign him long term if they had Feeley right there?

There is no question that McNabb is the future of the Eagles, I think the question is *how* much better he is than a Feely or Detmer. I think that remains to be seen. Which is the whole crux of what Rush said.

And hey, McNabb stunk in those two games, and guess what? The Eagles played bad. I wonder if that means that when he plays good, they play well?

I'm looking foward to the Birds / Redskins game this weekend. If the Eagles don't win this one, their playoff hopes will be a choice between Slim and None and Slim just left town. And yes indeed, the Philly sports media (and most likely everyone else) will point the finger DIRECTLY at McNabb - but most likely let him off the hook because of the "terrible strain" of having to deal with "this issue". I should just go ahead and write the article myself, they are always the same.

Limbaugh made a judgement about a guy after 2 games. 2 games. And then the team goes into Buffalo and beats them. Without Bobby Taylor, Brian Dawkins and Troy Vincent hurt. Limbaugh just proved that he didn't know that much about the game.

Speaking of overrated - see the Bufallo Bills. Would you trust Drew Bledsoe? Not me. Rush's point was about the media hype for McNabb, which, at it's high point, was on par with Vick's, but nowhere near the Lebron or Tiger level. I don't think it's a mystery that the Sports Media *does* encourage the promotion of Black Athletes in positions (stereotypically) "white only" (quarterback, golfer, etc.)...I don't like hearing it and think it's hypocritcal bullshit when they (Sports Media and Media in general) jump down Limbaugh's throat for something they have been guilty of forever. I remember vividly the hype and hoopla surrounding Randall Cunningham - who I rated (and still do) higher than Michael Vick, when Randall was in his prime. I also remember the fabled story about someone asking Doug Williams "How does it feel to be a Black Quaterback?". So what Limbaugh tried to express was the bullshit the Sports Media shovels on Joe Fan. And he was right. The sad thing is, if that idiot Kornheiser had said it, or even worse, Lupica had vainly pronouced "Death to Anyone Who Points Out That Dude Is Black" it would have fallen under the radar. And it has. I've watched ESPN's Sports Reporters since the fisrt show and have heard worse comments from retarted sports writers than Rush could ever dream of. But they never carried the alabatross of prior racial "insensitivity" that OFB mentions above.

Hey, I'm black, so maybe I'm a little too sensitive about this, but the two most disturbing things about this is that Limbaugh will get more pub out of this and that as McNabb said "I thought this stuff was over with."

Agreed. But the Sports Media will beat this horse into the ground, getting as much mileage out of "the Race Card" as possible. And that's the real disturbing thing and really the point of all of this. Instead of talking about "How will McNabb handle the rejuvinated Washington Defense?" or "How will the Eagles handle the new Steve Spurrier Ground Attack Offensive Plan?", the focus will be on Rush vs. McNabb. That's what sells papers and keeps the Unwashed Sports Media employed.

vsp: But McNabb could be white, black, brown, blue or purple and all of the above would still be true.

Damn straight. But, unfortunately that won't change the fact that the Sports Media will always say "and he's a Black Quarterback too!"

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#52 Posted on 3.10.03 1307.23
Reposted on: 3.10.10 1308.08
    Originally posted by RYDER FAKIN
    Marino made a career out of not having anyone really competent to catch his passes. (Anytime after the Duper / Clayton years). Making soup out of shit was the term back then - that's what separates the great ones from QB's like (insert name here)

    That's nice, but he hasn't won anything (i.e. a Super Bowl)...there is some 2nd string 3rd rate quarterback that's been around for years and has an incredible record when he starts (I can't think of who it is at the moment - damn...), but it's a neat stat that most fans (and QB's) would trade for a ring.


I'm not sure I'm reading these correctly, but there seems to be some minor contradiction at work here. Marino = great QB in one statement, but then in statement 2 it seems to say in order to be a great QB you need to win something. Considering Marino made exactly one Super Bowl where his team got crushed I'm not sure these jibe together very well.
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#53 Posted on 3.10.03 1407.35
Reposted on: 3.10.10 1410.48
spf2119: I'm not sure I'm reading these correctly, but there seems to be some minor contradiction at work here. Marino = great QB in one statement, but then in statement 2 it seems to say in order to be a great QB you need to win something. Considering Marino made exactly one Super Bowl where his team got crushed I'm not sure these jibe together very well

no, you read it right...Marino is one of the great mysteries (and bummer situations) in the history of the NFL. In my opinion, he's the greatest QB ever, but he'll always be 2nd behind Montana (or maybe 3rd if you count Unitas and winning before SB) in the eyes of QB history...undoubtedly, on paper, the best, but he never won, so he'll never be "great" or the "greatest" when the the final score is posted. Marino's 1984, in the stats, is probably the best you'll ever see a QB play - but he didn't win the Big Game, so who cares? And Marino's albatross? He never had a DEFENSE (until it was too late to matter) to help him. McNabb does.

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#54 Posted on 3.10.03 1421.15
Reposted on: 3.10.10 1421.15
    Originally posted by Ryder Fakin
    There is no question that McNabb is the future of the Eagles, I think the question is *how* much better he is than a Feely or Detmer. I think that remains to be seen. Which is the whole crux of what Rush said.


But what does McNabb's skin color have to do with anything? That is why this raised cackles. If he stops at McNabb is overrated, and backs it up with the defense carrying the team and whatever, that's fine. But bringing his skin color into play was ignorant and stupid. I didn't think "The Media" was that powerful. They sure did a job turnin Charlie Batch, Andre Ware, Akili Smith, and Jarious Jackson into perennial MVP candidates. I attribute McNabbs struggles from the end of last year and the beginning of this year as much to his questionable supporting staff as I would his recovery from his BROKEN LEG he suffered last year.

    Originally posted by kgriffey79
    And Alstott is a FULLBACK, not a tailback.
    sigh...


Alstott frequently lines up as a tailback in one and two back sets. I think that qualifies, myself.

(edited by Whitebacon on 3.10.03 1222)
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#55 Posted on 3.10.03 1449.19
Reposted on: 3.10.10 1449.45
    Originally posted by RYDER FAKIN
    Marino's 1984, in the stats, is probably the best you'll ever see a QB play - but he didn't win the Big Game, so who cares?


I'd let this slip under the radar if you hadn't said this earlier:

    Originally posted by RYDER FAKIN
    That's nice, but (McNabb) hasn't won anything (i.e. a Super Bowl)...


Of course, that was in response to McNabb's record as a starter after 56 games.

(edited by Broncolanche on 3.10.03 1349)
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#56 Posted on 3.10.03 1551.44
Reposted on: 3.10.10 1554.40
**Not sure what that has to do with anything. Garcia is mediocre - along the same lines as a Johnson or Dilfer. When he's on, he plays really good...but most of the time he is smart enough not to fuck up, which goes further these days than having an arm like a cannon.**

I was just trying to say that critizing a guy after a few bad games, and especially introducing race in it, isn't fair. Garcia hasn't played well this season, but it doesn't invalidate what he's done in seasons before, nor does that mean he's going to stink the rest of the year. Believe me, if Tom Jackson had said that Garcia has been the "Great White Hype", IMO, it would have been just as dumb as what Limbaugh said.

**Marino made a career out of not having anyone really competent to catch his passes. (Anytime after the Duper / Clayton years). Making soup out of shit was the term back then - that's what separates the great ones from QB's like (insert name here)**

Dan Marino is the best passer I've ever seen. It's unfair to compare him to McNabb, who's a very good QB who career has just started. There are very few people who could make recievers better than they were. I've only really seen 2 (Marino and Favre, who the best QB I've ever seen).

Flea, I understand you point. Perhaps there IS a racial bias for black QBs and coaches to do well (eg. Ray Rhodes, Michael Bishop, Kordell Stewart) just like I think anytime in basketball an American white player comes along, he's seen as the greatest thing (eg. Keith Van Horn, Shawn Bradley, Christian Laettner.) I just wish that Limbaugh could have been smarter than this and brought it up in a thougthful way, and it could have been a real good talking point on the media and the race relations between them, both black and white. But Limbaugh, IMO, just saw it as a way to be controversial and get his name in the papers and quite frankly, it backfired.


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#57 Posted on 3.10.03 1623.17
Reposted on: 3.10.10 1628.58
Just to be fair, I've listen to Limbaugh's radio show over the years, and from time to time football has come up. Limbaugh's position on McNabb is not new, in as far as he thinks he is overrated. I've heard him say that several times over the last couple of years. Now I don't recall him making the media statement about this, but he may or may not have. But I definately heard him call McNabb overrated before, this is not a new view of his after just the first couple of games.
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#58 Posted on 3.10.03 1703.00
Reposted on: 3.10.10 1703.26
http://slate.msn.com/id/2089193/

Good Read.
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#59 Posted on 3.10.03 1722.13
Reposted on: 3.10.10 1722.26
    Originally posted by DirtyMikeSeaver
    Perhaps there IS a racial bias for black QBs and coaches to do well (eg. Ray Rhodes, Michael Bishop, Kordell Stewart)


MICHAEL BISHOP?! Could you not hink of a black QB who at least PLAYED in the league? Michael Bishop never did anything on an NFL field that didn't involve a clipboard.

Why do *I* think we're past the need to pimp the virtues of black quarterbacks in the NFL? Five simple words: Kordell Stewart, retread black quarterback. If there were still an anti-black-QB bias in the NFL, Kordell would've been back at receiver for the last three years.

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#60 Posted on 3.10.03 2338.46
Reposted on: 3.10.10 2349.04
And also...an Oxy junkie? Man, when they are out to get you, no road is too low to take...

FLEA

(edited by RYDER FAKIN on 4.10.03 1047)
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