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20.4.07 0106
The 7 - Pro Wrestling - Raw 9-22-03
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reddragon
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#21 Posted on 23.9.03 0706.14
Reposted on: 23.9.10 0708.29
i thought trips was going off to go the movie Blade 3 soon. yes another superstar is off to make a movie
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#22 Posted on 23.9.03 0800.08
Reposted on: 23.9.10 0801.22
Raw was watchable, I'll give it that. Still not as good as your typical Smackdown, but after weeks of terrible Raw's, I'll take what I can get. Aside from Henry/Dreamer, none of the matches outright sucked.

I'm glad they didn't have Snow & Coach go out there and imitate JR & Lawler for 2 hours. A nice break from JR/Lawler, but I doubt they'll keep them there for too long. JR & Lawler will be back in under a month.

Highlight of the night - Helms/Rosey breaking out a 3-Count move (The Countdown, that Neckbreaker/Samoan Drop combo). Haven't seen that since Helms was tagging w/ Shannon on Smackdown.

As for HHH's "You need me more than I need you" line - does that mean he's just going to disappear w/out any other explanation? That's pretty weak.
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#23 Posted on 23.9.03 0929.02
Reposted on: 23.9.10 0929.13
    Originally posted by fuelinjected
    Pretty good RAW overall.

    It's been mentioned before but they should compromise with Jim Ross & Al Snow as the announce team. The whole dynamic of a heel announce team must throw casual fans for a loop especially if they haven't been watching regularly.

    Triple H's little promo about us needing him foreshadows his babyface return. This is gonna be like the most force fed babyface run in the history of Monday Nitro (Thanks Tony)!


::ponders the quote:: Oh, let him do it, I'm full already.

;-)
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#24 Posted on 23.9.03 0943.17
Reposted on: 23.9.10 0943.33
A few thoughts:

After getting squashed by Mark Henry is less than a minute, perhaps Tommy Dreamer should be sending an updated resume to Dutch Mantell for when the next budget cuts occur.
Its disgraceful to have Ric Flair have to look bad for one of the Tough Enough Bunch. Jindrak and Cade, fine, but not Maven. And, I thought the Trip comment at the end was more directed for when he dumps Flair, as he believes Flair needs him more than he needs Flair. And, it would probably help DVD sales in November if Flair was a face at the time.
Seeing Bradshaw at the news conference brought forth one thought: Was he there to exchange notes on differring methods of prison sex?
Al Snow, when he's not sucking up to Tough Enough or having to do impressions, does show some potential. Coachman is still worthless.
Last McMahon to get beaten up in a hospital won the World Title less than a year later.
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#25 Posted on 23.9.03 0950.43
Reposted on: 23.9.10 0951.28
What a great show tonight. For the last month I was hoping that Raw will regroup after the PPV and they sure did tonight. Best Raw in a month... Coach and Snow are totally working for me as well! (Note SHG: You have Molly playing for both teams in your report, I'm sure the Molly fanatics here will have no doubt that Molly can carry a tag team with Gail AND Lita in the same match! LoL)

-Goldberg/Austin/Bischoff interview- I was looking after my nephews for the first 15 minutes and he looked at Goldberg and Austin and said, "They both look the same" LoL. Yes it is AustinBerg!... DeadCowWalking finally makes his return leaving the TruckStopClothing in the closet where it belongs. I like Eric taking credit for creating Goldberg NOT VINCE! World Champion Goldberg first order of business, do an unsafe spear on Bischoff which I'm shocked he didn't get seriously injured. Who's Next! I ain't volunteering.

-RVD vs. Christian- I enjoyed this match a lot more then the you guys seem to have. Last night was a embarrassing for all 3 involved. Tonight both seemed on their game. RVD had most of the offense and looked very crisp in there. They kept it under 5 minutes (probably to be on the safe side). But RVD spots seemed to be on tonight... I was ready to rant over another BELT HIT TO THE HEAD DQ finish, but unlike usual lazy booking this had meaning setting up a ladder match which says "Hey Christian you want to use the belt, climb up and get it." Nice splash from the ladder by Christian.

-Evolution interview- Team Generic(sorry but well they kinda are LoL) came out in their red tights but Evolution knocked them down and get in the ring to talk. Okay SHG I admit to snickering at HHH saying "He beat himself last night" Yes I'm more immature then my nephews, By the way, I wonder where they ran off to?

-Henry vs. Dreamer- If you want to re-start Mark Henry's career, give him a finisher with a bit more substance then picking a guy up and dropping him down. Gimmie a break, give Rodney Mack the heart punch and they can be known as "Team we can't think of anything good to finish our opponents with so we came up with this these lame finishers" T.W.C.T.O.A.G.T.F.O.O.W.S.W.C.U.W.T.T.L.F... Catchy isn't it, Long team name worked for the Self-Proclaimed World's Greatest Tag Team LoL

-Lita/Trish v. Gail/Molly-Negatives out of the way first. I would have booked this different(SEE Raw Preview thread). Also Lita was going into Superwoman mode & seemed like she could have beaten the heels 2-1. Would have like Trish to get the tag in, I mean she did job to these girls 2 months in a row some pinning revenge would be nice. But that's a minor point... Match was great, Trish with the matrix which if not impressive enough add a handstand carana to it! Trish goes flying when knocked off the apron, does her feet touch the mat when she wants the tag LoL. Molly was fantastic tonite, worked Lita's neck, broke out the Curt Hennig snap! Molly suplex Lita up & held her up there Lita escaped landed on her feet & hit an inverted DDT. Also really like that Russian leg sweep Lita gave. I haven't seen Lita this motivated since, forever. Molly and Gail worked the heel double team very well

-Shane/Kane hospital- So much goodness here. First when the heck did Kane become a comedian LoL He was saying stuff like "You want some blood Shane" and "Put your seatbelt on Shane", I was like WTF! When did Kane add sarcastic smartass to his monster persona LoL... And the Extra's on here were fantastically BAD. What was with that nurse giving cheesy smile reaction to everything Shane said HAHA. And that security one guard is challenging Trish for the most over-the-top back bump selling of a punch. What's better Trish flying off the apron when Gail punched her off or this security guy flying off Kane's fist onto the hospital floor. Classic seeing the other security guard just give a "Holy Sh*t" look and took off. He should have thrown his weapon at Kane first then took off! 5 STAR SEGMENT, 5 STARS!! Best out of arena segment of the year. All we needed more was Kane to break out the dentist drill.

-Hurricane/Rosey vs. Conway/Dupree- The heels look like broken taped up action figures. Why is it the one guy that isn't bandaged up not wrestling for the frenches LoL. I was on cloud nine after the last segment so they can put anything here and it would be okay. Dupree prance is my favorite taunt in the WW. When did the French flag become offensive but the Confederate flag is okay (that's another rant for another time LoL). Odd hearing the Military guy telling Grener to pick up his flag and it shouldn't be on the floor. Decent match went under 4 minutes.

-Evolution vs. Maven/Cade/Jindrak- Can the faces be called "Team Green" I love that name for a team. I think Flair is older then all the faces and Orton combined, okay maybe not but it's close LoL. Flair is fantastic, dammit Maven you MFer (not Maven follower) sell Flair's chops!! HA Flair winds up his punch a bunch but gets knock down boooo. Hey Team Green is actually holding pretty well in this 7-minute melee. All heck breaks loose Maven is in control of Flair but gets the poke in the eye (the brow couldn't deflected this time). Orton outside with a chair but Hebner grabs it off him and stumbles to the outside. Maven gets control of Flair hits the missal dropkick but HHH is there to save Flair and pedigree Maven to give Flair the win. Much better then expected.

-Rock in Hollywood- Rock was cool. Mark Lloyd was awesome, he reminds me of so many kiss-ass entertainment reports with his stupid questions. Then signing off saying "Run down this weekend to go see the Rundown" Cheeeesy! Rock came back and called him out on it. Funny Stuff

-Goldberg v. Y2J-Not much time given which can be a good thing in this case. Goldberg talks to Bischoff on the outside & Y2J runs right into Bischoff without Goldberg even moving. Goldberg picks up Jericho & drops him uncomfortably on to the top rope(ouch). Goldberg sets up a spear at the outside ohhh there's stairs behind Y2J MOVE Y2J! He does & Goldberg crashes into the steps, Goldberg crashing into things is my fav. Goldberg move. Goldberg is actually selling well, for a little while. Then Y2J got caught in Goldberg’s press slam, Goldberg pins but Bischoff pulls the ref off. Goldberg yells at Bischoff allowing Y2J to hit a low blow & lionsault. 1.2 quick kick out, no one in the arena bought that including Goldberg. Austin comes out & punches Bischoff, unproved! Y2J distracted by Austin turns around & gets speak/jackhammer. Announcers upset over Goldberg’s actions & apologizes to the military LoL

-Other Stuff- Trish & Lita walking the halls and we are informed that "Camera 6 is your worst case scenario". Man they seem really worried having Lita & Gail in the ring at the same time LoL... Jericho & Christian got their priorities straight & are checking out the girls until Austin shows up. Makes a JR vs. Coach match for next week (boo) and calls Christian a CLB "Christian Likes Blondes" HA love Jericho's laugh. Austin laughs along but informs everyone it's "Creepy Little Bastard" (Hate to agree with Austin but Christian does have beety eyes, he is kinda creepy) Jericho disagrees and states "He knows creepy and Christian Ain't it"... Why does Test need his bags if he's not wrestling tonight?

-Line of the Night: Mysterious Voice "Camera 6 is your worse case scenario" Now that's creepy.
-Sign of the Night: Fire Austin
-3Stars of the Night: 1)Christian. 2)Molly. 3)Jericho. - Sometimes it's very difficult to come up with 3 (last week 2 out of 3 were on looks alone). But this week there' over half a dozen possibilities. Including RVD, Lita and Flair and of course security guard 1 and 2.

This was the best Raw in months. With the exception of Henry/Dreamer, I didn't mind any segment. You had real good matches (IC Title, women tag). Matches that were over expectations (6-man, World Title). You had fun over-the-top moments like the hospital, Rock's interview and Jericho/Christian/Austin backstage. It had a perfect mix of everything... The announcers were a breath of fresh air. Hopefully it's not over next week with the Ross match. Maybe Jericho can find a loophole in the contract after Austin punched Bischoff to make his stipulations for next week Ross/Coach match null and void (of course only comes out after the match). Crosses fingers.

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#26 Posted on 23.9.03 1049.49
Reposted on: 23.9.10 1051.36
Ummm...CLB?

Camera 6?

I caught half of Raw, but I barely paid any attention to that. Can anyone explain these to me?

One thing I do find funny...a strong Raw equates to a weak Smackdown...at least, that's what I gather...

Evil, though...no Lance Storm. Bad, bad move, in my eyes.
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#27 Posted on 23.9.03 1056.06
Reposted on: 23.9.10 1056.17
RAW thoughts:

Missed the first two segments....Evolution interview seemed to be just a setup for the tag match as Trips didn't have much to say, tho Trips saying he believes the hype was a bit surprising....The Secretary of Defense v.s Tommy Dreamer was a wash, since I like Dreamer and the Long stable. Teddy Long for President!....I'll give the women's tag match some dap, that was the best I've seen in a while from them....The most brutal part of the Shane/Kane segment (other than having to watch it) was seeing the security guy take a flat-back bump on that floor. Ouch!....
The Frenchies v.s Superheroes was okay, some more cheap heat on La Resistance, I guess....
Evolution v.s Jindrak/Cade/Maven would've been okay if the crowd would've cared....Gotta love The Rock....Steve Austin/Christian/Jericho's backstage segment was entertaining....Did the Test/Steiner feud really need a video/music recap?....Jericho v.s Goldberg was a pretty good match. Decent enough for RAW, anyway....Nice touch with the segments with the soldiers, IMO.

(edited by geemoney on 23.9.03 0856)
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#28 Posted on 23.9.03 1101.46
Reposted on: 23.9.10 1102.17
Clear something up for me re: Austin.

If I remember Linda's stipulations correctly, Austin couldn't attack the *wrestlers* without provocation. Nothing about Bischoff (who is not a contracted wrestler). Hence, wouldn't Austin's actions last night technically be tacitally permittable and result in no changes for next week?

Pretty good show - great women's match, Hurricane & Rosey are showing tons of potential as a tag team (but La Res in the form of Dupree and Conway have to get the titles back first before the superheroes can get a shot) and I had a glimmer of hope for a minute that Vince would do the right thing and put the belt on Jericho. Hopefully, he'll follow through come SurSer...
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#29 Posted on 23.9.03 1103.16
Reposted on: 23.9.10 1104.10
Austin's taken to calling Christian "CLB" (Creepy Little Bastard).
And when Lita and Trish were "walking" there was no sound, then some fizzing and popping and they must have hooked in the wrong feed because you could hear someone (floor director?) saying "Camera 6, you are worst case scenario" (which I assume is no sound).

I rather enjoyed the RAW, and Gail Kim looks to be doing better every week. She works much better as a heel.
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#30 Posted on 23.9.03 1115.13
Reposted on: 23.9.10 1118.00
The women were on fire tonight. My only (and I mean only) complaint there was that Lita's still using the Twist of Fate. It's more identified with Matt and he's a heel on the other show. Not that with her neck I'd want to see her busting out the moonsault on a weekly basis, but one or the other of them should probably drop it. Very pleasantly suprised by Trish's new variant on the Matrix. Lita's counter of the surfboard into a russian legsweep was great too. Easily my match of the night.

If only Flair able to work with *every* green guy on the roster... He made Maven look like a million bucks there. Maven is still a little too "vanilla" in his offense, but he's coming along. No signs of a heel turn yet (which almost necessitates a new heelish moveset).

Mark Henry's at least got his "intense" look down. His offense makes Hogan look like Owen Hart, though. Teddy Long saves the segment for me. I was halfway expecting Jindrak and Cade to be their opposition after the Evolution beatdown, but that's okay. Tommy needs his monthly squash.

I'm also very happy to see that Shane was wearing pajama bottoms under his gown. That would not have been a pleasant visual.

I agree with NHS though. Why do you have Grenier with no visible effects from the tables match when he's the guy on the outside not wrestling with his normal partner?

Lastly, I thought Coach and Snow did a bang-up job. No over-the-top mockery and they were more even-handed in their treatment of both heels and faces than I've seen from Ross and Lawler in years. And the only time "puppies" was mentioned was to say you wouldn't hear it from these guys again. Well done!
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#31 Posted on 23.9.03 1130.21
Reposted on: 23.9.10 1132.18
    Originally posted by SOK
    Evil, though...no Lance Storm. Bad, bad move, in my eyes.


He's out hurt, thanks to Mark Henry.
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#32 Posted on 23.9.03 1221.24
Reposted on: 23.9.10 1226.43
Teddy Long running for President so he can "change the laws" could be the greatest angle of all time.

Is it just me, or were Coach and Al Snow reminiscent of Jesse Ventura on commentary last night? No no, not in terms of quality, but in presentation. They weren't 100% behind the heels in everything they did/said, despite taking the heel side on a number of things. Ventura's strength for me was that he was a straight-man announcer, but just saw things through the eyes of a heel. For example, an all-out heel announcer probably would have taken up for La Résistance when they came out, yet Coach and Al took the American slant - almost the way you would expect them to act if they were honestly responding to them rather than playing an over-the-top heel announcer. I can't help but think that, say, Mark Madden would have been falling all over himself trying to speak French in that segment. Through their reservedness (is that a word?) Al and Coach had more of an impact when they actually did try and take up for a heel.
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#33 Posted on 23.9.03 1244.34
Reposted on: 23.9.10 1247.15
Lance is hurt? Son of a bitch. I just figured I would see him on Heat this Sunday. That's terrible news, and just one more reason to despise Mark Henry.

Does anyone know how bad he's injured, or when he is scheduled to return?

(edited by Jakegnosis on 23.9.03 1147)
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#34 Posted on 23.9.03 1256.14
Reposted on: 23.9.10 1256.20
    Originally posted by Jakegnosis
    Lance is hurt? Son of a bitch. I just figured I would see him on Heat this Sunday. That's terrible news, and just one more reason to despise Mark Henry.

    Does anyone know how bad he's injured, or when he is scheduled to return?


Someone asked Lance if Mark Henry worked as rough as it looked like he did. Lance responded with "I'm out injured this week, you do the math."

I presume (though, it's just a presumption) that it means he's only out for the week and is expected back next week. He didn't specify what the injury was but he also didn't say anything about being out for any length of time.

He did specifically state that he would be appearing at various upcoming house shows that people were asking him about, so at the worst, he couldn't be out more than a couple of week.
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#35 Posted on 23.9.03 1307.43
Reposted on: 23.9.10 1308.28
That's not SO bad, then.

Thanks for the info.
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#36 Posted on 23.9.03 1830.15
Reposted on: 23.9.10 1832.54
    Originally posted by HairRaiser
    The women were on fire tonight. My only (and I mean only) complaint there was that Lita's still using the Twist of Fate. It's more identified with Matt and he's a heel on the other show. Not that with her neck I'd want to see her busting out the moonsault on a weekly basis, but one or the other of them should probably drop it. Very pleasantly suprised by Trish's new variant on the Matrix. Lita's counter of the surfboard into a russian legsweep was great too. Easily my match of the night.


It wasn't the Old School Expulsion/Burning Sword last night like at Unforgiven?
Her offense is much improved but she still has to work on the defensive side.
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#37 Posted on 23.9.03 1846.13
Reposted on: 23.9.10 1850.22
New here.. my thoughts on Raw:

Goldberg's glorious entry as new Titleholder. Congrats, Bill. Crowd wants to love him but has trouble reacting to his mic work, judging by the lukewarm reaction to his big tagline "Believe the hype." I think it had it's place but now he's the champ it doesn't work as a "I'll yell this at the end of my little speech here and the crowd will love it" line.... Timing was weak on the speak but Bischoff took it nicely.. Flying into the ropes was nice.

Rob and Christian. Not a big fan of the match but I won't complain night after a PPV. I never paid much attention to RVD in the ring before but he seemed to be going through the motions a lot in this one. Prepping for the next move a little early in a lot of the exchanges, etc. Christian's frog splash at the end was impressive given the height, but... eh. In my mind no frog splash compares to the D-Lo Brown frog splash from 3-4 years ago. I think Christian would have done well to push Nick Patrick out of the ring, knock him out. As it was Patrick looked like a doofus yelling at him up on the ladder, and it's not out of character for Christian to give a ref a nice punch in the face.

I enjoyed Theo Long's mic work tonight. I don't mind him but like most people here have found Mack to be nothing special and Mark Henry's performances leaving something to be desired ever since his return. The first "finishing body slam" he laid in his first match back (I forget the opponent) I enjoyed, but to really work as a finisher it has to be done just right. And either it hasn't since or I'm just used to it.

I missed the "Worst Case Scenario" segment but agree - a tag team NEEDS to be called this... :>

Women's match - Stunned at how much I enjoyed it. Ballsy of them to let a women's match go as long as it did (usually, and with good reason, they like to wrap them up pretty quickly lest the natives get restless). But they let it develop and I'll be damned if it didn't work. Lita looks a lot better. I don't mind the Twist of Fate being used by both Matt and Lita, though it worked better with Matt (as face) because he had this innate timing with the crowd on the preliminary yell. It makes the move.

Andrew/Stacy/Scott video. I really wanted to see this. Okay, I didn't. It was a long video that only illustrated how long this stupid thing has been going on. I don't know if it was the required weekly dosage of Stacy viewing or maybe Storm's injury caused them to bump a segement with him and Goldie leading to an extended Andrew/Stacy/Steiner montage.

A lot has been made of the "undisclosed location" that was revealed to be "Harrisburg, PA" but if I recall correctly they said it was an "undisclosed medical facility" which means it's not a big deal that they said it was in Harrisburgh. I didn't watch this closely because "Serious Shane" is about as intolerable for me to watch as "Sobbing Stephanie". Came back to see to my surprise a bare-chested Kane throwing down. Don't know if that's a make-up for the "Shane Rulez" display that apparently happened at the PPV and NOW Shane goes back to his office, or an extendstion of the rivalry. I don't mind Shane much but I hope it's the former because I've about had it with Kane v. Shane.

La Res vs. The Heroes.. Not much to say here other than noting like most others about the serviceman yelling at them that their flag was touching the ground. Sounded to me like he was yelling at the characters (taunting as a fan) rather than yelling at them (as a serviceman) for letting the flag touch the ground.

Evolution vs. The Upstarts and Maven - I haven't seen much of Jindrak and Cade but.. I was impressed. Like SHG said, the match had a nice feel to it. I really like Jindrak but only saw him in 1 non-tag match and that was a while ago on heat and I didn't pay much attention.

HHH's little promo.. Whatever. I'm not sure what the deal is but I would have liked to have seen him demand a rematch sometime. Sure I don't want it to actually happen but given that Jericho had a title shot that night, you could rebuff him with no problem. Him just saying "I beat myself" and then pretty much getting all "You need me" seemed a bit...not right.

Rock on the Red Carpet - Good to seem him. You can always tell when he's a little out of practice...starts repeating things over and over again until he can get the next bunch of words onto the tip of his toungue.. "The Rock says this, the Rock says this, the Rock says THIS: yadda yadda yadda". "You better not bleep The Rock, you CAN say 'bunghole,' it's a very funny word" was priceless.

Title match was no big suprise Jericho pretty much asked for a title shot by default. "What, I wasn't mixed in some scrub feud this week? What, no highlight reel segement? Ok, might as well ask for a title shot."

That said, the crowd wants nothing more, it seems, than to get behind Jericho and I don't see Goldberg staying face for an extended period of time.


Finally...The announce team. I agree, a nice change of pace but Coach and Snow are far from ideal and are barely satisfactory. Coach seemed to totally lose steam and forgot that he was calling a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH early in the main event. So much so that they went outside the ring, Goldberg freaking SPEARS the steel steps and Coachman is silent, leaving Al to call out "Goldberg tried the spear and flew into the steel steps!!" despite the fact that play-by-play is, you know, COACHMAN'S JOB. The heel announce team is alright though.. made me pine for the days when Lawler was the hell color man and JR the face pbp-er. Oh well.

That was kind of long.. My first post - sorry for being so long-winded.

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