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The 7 - Site Bashing - Stop Being So Snotty
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OlFuzzyBastard
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#1 Posted on 21.9.03 2158.50
Reposted on: 21.9.10 2159.01
So, I'm going back and forth - watching the Emmys and trying to follow the PPV on-line. Obviously, 411wrestling was down - and I can't deal with the Torch's insane pop-ups, so I'm reading the running results on the Wrestling Observer and, well, just look at these.
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Big Bad
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#2 Posted on 21.9.03 2256.25
Reposted on: 21.9.10 2257.41
Wow, I checked 411 for the PPV results at 11:20 and (get this) the site was actually up! I was figuring on having to wait until at least 1 AM.
Excalibur05
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#3 Posted on 22.9.03 1249.46
Reposted on: 22.9.10 1251.23
Dude, man, I fell asleep during RVD/Jericho/Christian, but it probably sucked anyway. The announcers are talking to ME, man. They're telling ME in their special Meltzer code that the match sucked and that I rule. I'm sleepy.
oldschoolhero
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#4 Posted on 22.9.03 1305.28
Reposted on: 22.9.10 1305.29
I'm also curious as to how Meltz thinks "H's ego got the best of him" in the main event. I cannot see any way in which this applies.
fuelinjected
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#5 Posted on 22.9.03 1315.44
Reposted on: 22.9.10 1316.10
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    I'm also curious as to how Meltz thinks "H's ego got the best of him" in the main event. I cannot see any way in which this applies.


Triple H thinks he's Ric Flair and always has to do long matches because he thinks, like Flair, he can carry anyone. The best thing to do would have been 8 hard hitting minutes of Goldberg's power offense that the fans love. Instead once it started going long and Goldberg started selling too much, the fans began to lose interest and there was little heat. Luckily, they didn't turn on Goldberg like they turned on Steiner.

Most of Goldberg's big WCW matches went around 7-10 minutes and that worked because that's what people want Goldberg to be. But instead of doing that, Triple H had to try and carry him to a long match, which he couldn't especially with an injured groin.

And JR does have little phrases he throws out when there's a stinker in the ring like "bowling shoe".
oldschoolhero
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#6 Posted on 22.9.03 1326.57
Reposted on: 22.9.10 1327.25
Oh, right, the nebulous "we know exactly what Hunter's thinking and who booked the match-tme" theorem. Had to know there'd be a way to tear into the guy somehow. Considering 'Berg's WWE debut against Rock went down much the same way-longer, in fact-don't you think it slightly more possible that this is a company decision rather than an HHH's-ego decision?

Sorry. That doesn't fit with the programme.
fuelinjected
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#7 Posted on 22.9.03 1351.38
Reposted on: 22.9.10 1352.43
Right, there's no evidence of Triple H going to long matches with bad opponents. Not even in the past year. Not even doing it on back to back PPV's with the same guy. Nope, none.

How did Goldberg's match turn out with Rock? Not very good so it was proven then that he shouldn't be doing long matches. Even with super worker Chris Jericho, the fans grew restless when Goldberg sold for too long.

It's not jumping leaps and bounds to see that Triple H likes to do long matches even when he shouldn't.
Jaguar
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#8 Posted on 22.9.03 1400.35
Reposted on: 22.9.10 1400.38
I think what oldschoolhero is saying is that Triple H didn't book the long match against The Rock, and he didn't book the long match against Jericho, so why is it that Triple H obviously booked the long match against himself?

When's the last time the WWE has had a short PPV main event? Maybe they're just sticking to a style that they like that caps off the PPV with a 20 minute main event.

-Jag
JustinShapiro
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#9 Posted on 22.9.03 1405.30
Reposted on: 22.9.10 1407.10
"Oh, right, the nebulous "we know exactly what Hunter's thinking and who booked the match-tme" theorem."

Hunter laid out the match as he does all his matches. It's not nebulous in the slightest. He always works long matches even if it's not in his (December vs. Michaels) or his opponent's (Steiner) best interest. If he absolutely can't work a long match, they change entire cards and planned world title changes (SummerSlam).

There's no reason to distinguish between "company decision" and "HHH decision" because it's the same thing. Hunter is essentially second or third in command.

(edited by JMShapiro on 22.9.03 1211)
smarkymcsmart
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#10 Posted on 22.9.03 1533.43
Reposted on: 22.9.10 1535.02

    There's no reason to distinguish between "company decision" and "HHH decision" because it's the same thing.


Oh, please. For all you know, HHH wanted an extra ten minutes. He's not the one who laid out Goldberg's match with the Rock, or Jericho, or the Christian match that ran way too long. Yet HHH gets the same time for a /main event world title match/ and it's because of his ego. It's a ridiculous statement and shows how selectively petty Meltzer is. He jumps on HHH for the match time, but imagine if HHH had undercut Goldberg before the show, turned the crowd on him, played into it despite being the heel, and then had to take more than one spear before finally going down. We would never hear the end of how HHH completely and entirely killed Goldberg off for good, yet we haven't heard a word about it since the Rock did those very things at Backlash.
fuelinjected
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#11 Posted on 22.9.03 1539.03
Reposted on: 22.9.10 1543.55
You would have if you read the Observer because he ripped Rock pretty hard for that match and that entire feud.
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#12 Posted on 22.9.03 1557.31
Reposted on: 22.9.10 1559.02
I've read what Meltzer wrote, but it was hardly a hard ripping. And has it been mentioned since? No, but you know perfectly well that from this point forward we'll always hear how HHH put himself in front of the business by not doing a quick squash and letting Goldberg be exposed.

(edited by smarkymcsmart on 22.9.03 1359)
King Of Crap
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#13 Posted on 22.9.03 1618.48
Reposted on: 22.9.10 1619.00
Goldberg is exposed any time his matches go longer than two minutes, no matter who he's in there with.
JustinShapiro
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#14 Posted on 22.9.03 1811.23
Reposted on: 22.9.10 1814.11
"He's not the one who laid out Goldberg's match with the Rock, or Jericho, or the Christian match that ran way too long."

No kidding. But none of that has anything to do with Hunter's history of wanting to do long matches when he shouldn't. If you want to be intentionally naive (hence the name, you show 'em!) and say OH BUTCHA CAN'T PROVE THIS, and not acknowledge that Vince McMahon's son-in-law has any say, then so be it.

"Yet HHH gets the same time for a /main event world title match/ and it's because of his ego."

It's his ego for doing a match that long when he was hurt. No one said "gosh Hunter, we know you're hurt but you have to do a 20 minute match no matter what." HHH lays out his own matches. Including matches with Shawn Michaels and Scott Steiner that stunk up the place because Hunter wanted to do a long match.

"[Rock match stuff snipped] I've read what Meltzer wrote, but it was hardly a hard ripping."

Speaking of selectively petty. "Rock as having upstaged Goldberg in NWO vs. WCW fashion, resulting in Goldberg being booed." "Goldberg pinned Rock but by every realistic sense, Rock 'won' the match." "His job was to put Goldberg over, and losing and putting someone over aren't the same thing."

(edited by JMShapiro on 22.9.03 1628)
Think of It As a Funnel
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#15 Posted on 22.9.03 1851.12
Reposted on: 22.9.10 1851.38
    Originally posted by King Of Crap
    Goldberg is exposed any time.


^I think that's a bit more fitting.
Torchslasher
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#16 Posted on 22.9.03 2300.59
Reposted on: 22.9.10 2302.44
    Originally posted by King Of Crap
    Goldberg is exposed any time his matches go longer than two minutes, no matter who he's in there with.


I disagree. You can look to the Halloween Havoc match with DDP and see a match that went long and was very good. Credit DDP if you want, but in any event Goldberg showed that with a good story and an opponent that can carry him, he can make a match worthwhile. I believe that Sting also had a good match with the G-Berg. So it appears obvious to me that Hunter is not the man to carry Goldberg to long matches and last night kinda proved it.
sayain zubas
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#17 Posted on 23.9.03 0035.19
Reposted on: 23.9.10 0037.05
(deleted by CRZ on 22.9.03 2307)
smarkymcsmart
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#18 Posted on 23.9.03 0036.35
Reposted on: 23.9.10 0037.40

    No kidding. But none of that has anything to do with


Yes, it does. Goldberg has been booked in matches over ten minutes before. Matches where his opponent was not HHH. Therefore, his being booked in a "long" match against HHH is not some freak anomaly where appeasing HHH's ego can be considered a reasonable explanation.

And what does any of that have to do with HHH having any say? Of course he does. He's selfish. He's always out for himself. That's not the issue. Nobody is saying that HHH is innocent of all charges being leveled against him, and he's actually a misunderstood defender of the midcarders. But that doesn't mean Meltzer is immune from making stupid comments about him, because this is just one of many.

I was responding to your earlier retort of there being no difference between a "company decision" and a "HHH decision", meaning that we may as well agree with Meltzer and blame HHH since he would have agreed with the company anyway. The company, as we have already covered, made the same decision more than once when HHH had nothing to do with it. There can't be disagreement on this. So to immediately put the blame on HHH's ego, knowing full well that the company had made the same call before, was dumb. There's plenty of things HHH could be blamed for, but this was a stupid comment.


    Hunter's history of wanting to do long matches when he shouldn't


The HBK point is pretty flimsy since it was a best two of three match in a PPV main event slot. It should go ten minutes? Not likely. I also seem to remember quite a lot of people liking that match.


    It's his ego for doing a match that long when he was hurt. No one said "gosh Hunter, we know you're hurt but you have to do a 20 minute match no matter what."


So that means that the company actually wanted a shorter match, but HHH refused and demanded to do a long one? How about this? How about the company, which, as we know, has previously booked Goldberg in these intense marathon matches, tells HHH that they'd like his main event championship match with Goldberg to go about fifteen minutes if he's up to it. To which he says "whatever you need, I'll get through it". My, that's a simple and reasonable interpretation of what could have occured.


    "Rock as having upstaged Goldberg in NWO vs. WCW fashion, resulting in Goldberg being booed." "Goldberg pinned Rock but by every realistic sense, Rock 'won' the match." "His job was to put Goldberg over, and losing and putting someone over aren't the same thing."


Ouch. Look at all of those jabs about the Rock's selfishness and his huge ego. Look where he rips the Rock apart for putting his own interests ahead of the business. "NWO vs. WCW fashion", that means Rock was so entertaining that the fans couldn't help booing him against the boring guy. Wow, he's ripping him apart with that one. Meltzer said worse things about HHH when he made a few jokes about Goldberg while doing commentary.

And, again, how many times has Meltzer brought this up since then? How many times have digs on what the Rock did found their way into his updates? How deeply has he explored the way the Rock buried him right out of the gate while writing about all the ways in which WWE mishandled Goldberg? Not at all, because he's too busy getting on kicks like this latest one about whether HHH's ego would allow them to write him out with an injury. First of all, considering all the real injuries he's been written out with, I don't know why it would hurt his ego any. Secondly, I don't remember Rock doing an injury angle any of the times he left. I don't remember Nash being written out with an injury after SummerSlam. HHH couldn't do a suspension angle? He couldn't just quietly slip away like Nash did? No, for some reason he damn sure has to do an injury angle, and if he doesn't, well then we'll sure know why. Petty, nah.
CRZ
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#19 Posted on 23.9.03 0110.27
Reposted on: 23.9.10 0110.56
Why sh/would Meltzer rip somebody who isn't on television, isn't part of the product, and doesn't figure into any of the current booking plans?
JustinShapiro
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#20 Posted on 23.9.03 0111.15
Reposted on: 23.9.10 0111.15
"Therefore, his being booked in a "long" match against HHH is not some freak anomaly where appeasing HHH's ego can be considered a reasonable explanation."

Hunter doing long matches when he or his opponent is too limited to do them is not an anomaly either. HHH works long matches even when it's against best interests. How is that untrue?

"The HBK point is pretty flimsy since it was a best two of three match in a PPV main event slot. It should go ten minutes? Not likely."

Should it go forty?

"So that means that the company actually wanted a shorter match, but HHH refused and demanded to do a long one?"

HHH is the one who books his matches. HHH is the one who decides how long they're going to be (e.g. hey I'm gonna do 25 minutes with Kevin Nash). Hence, when his matches aren't successful, who is there to blame but HHH? You can blame the other guy for being a bad worker, but whose idea was it to go 15-20 minutes?

"Look at all of those jabs about the Rock's selfishness and his huge ego."

Considering their respective reputations, historically, Rock comes off as just a tad less selfish. This could be why one of them is often getting ripped and the other rarely is, or it could all just be anti-HHH myth and perception.
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