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The 7 - Baseball - NL Wild Card Register and log in to post!
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BigVitoMark
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#1 Posted on 29.8.03 1314.49
Reposted on: 29.8.10 1315.15
Kinda hard to badmouth the wild card with a race like this. You could make the argument that it's a race only because none of the five teams currently tied for first is good enough to run away with it, but even if you agree with it's hard to say there's no drama in five teams basically starting from scratch with a game or two on two others and playing one month for one spot in the playoffs.

So who wins?

The Cubs have the best pitching of the bunch, but they can't hit. Their offense is, however better than the Dodgers, so LA is out. Arizona made their move when Johnson and Schilling went down but haven't been anything special since they came back. If they had another run in them we'd have seen it by now. They're out. The Phillies are imploding already so forget them and the Marlins, who have been very ordinary since getting to the top of the standings, not to mention the fact that Dontrelle Willis has proven to be human after all.

I would love to see the Expos win it and play the playoff games in Puerto Rico just to stick it to the Montreal fans who don't deserve a playoff team, but I have to go with a team from the Central. They still have a division title to play for, so I'd say the three potential playoff teams in that division will be the most motivated. Houston takes the division and St. Louis wins out in the wild card because they're managed by Tony LaRussa and the Cubs, well, are the Cubs and they choke.
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#2 Posted on 29.8.03 1326.23
Reposted on: 29.8.10 1326.29
As badly as the Wild Card teams are playing I say the Brewers and Mets win the Central and wild card. Of course the Padres and Pirates will catch up too and only fall one game short.

(edited by Quezzy on 29.8.03 1127)
Bullitt
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#3 Posted on 29.8.03 1811.28
Reposted on: 29.8.10 1811.43
    Originally posted by BigVitoMark
    I would love to see the Expos win it and play the playoff games in Puerto Rico


If the 'Spos do win the wild card (and let's ALL pray that they do) any playoff games will be played in Montreal.
BigVitoMark
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#4 Posted on 29.8.03 2316.38
Reposted on: 29.8.10 2318.40
Yeah, I know they'll be played in Montreal, but come on, do those people really deserve it? I can't think of a sports franchise anywhere in any sport that counts that gets less fan support, let alone one that's competitive and consistently turns out exciting young players. I mean, the XFL averaged more fans a game than the Montreal Expos. And that town could be rewarded with playoff baseball over Chicago, St. Louis, or Philadelphia? That's absurd.
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#5 Posted on 29.8.03 2331.05
Reposted on: 29.8.10 2332.05
    Originally posted by BigVitoMark
    Yeah, I know they'll be played in Montreal, but come on, do those people really deserve it? I can't think of a sports franchise anywhere in any sport that counts that gets less fan support, let alone one that's competitive and consistently turns out exciting young players. I mean, the XFL averaged more fans a game than the Montreal Expos. And that town could be rewarded with playoff baseball over Chicago, St. Louis, or Philadelphia? That's absurd.


Keep in mind they had to put up with Loria pulling the scorched-earth routine for years. This might build enough goodwill that attendance won't be embarrassingly low, but they still should probably get out if they can't get a new stadium.
Big Bad
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#6 Posted on 30.8.03 0000.18
Reposted on: 30.8.10 0002.56
Speaking as someone who's been to more than a few Expos games and seen the kind of hardcore baseball fans that still populate the Big O, it's impossible to say that Montreal "doesn't deserve" baseball. Twenty-five years ago, Montreal was one of the best markets in the sport, and that was even with fans sitting in frigid temperatures before the Big O was converted. It was baseball that failed Montreal, not Montreal that failed MLB.
Bullitt
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#7 Posted on 30.8.03 0029.43
Reposted on: 30.8.10 0030.31
    Originally posted by BigVitoMark
    And that town could be rewarded with playoff baseball over Chicago, St. Louis, or Philadelphia? That's absurd.


That sentence is absurd...

So the CITY deserves the playoffs over the TEAM that actually, ya know, goes out a qualifies for them?

If Chicago, St Louis, or Philly want playoff baseball, go out and earn it...don't expect it simply because "we're a better baseball town than Montreal." Geez...
TheCow
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#8 Posted on 30.8.03 1055.00
Reposted on: 30.8.10 1056.36
*sigh*

Okay.

'94 - awesome team, strike year. Team dismantled before '95 season.
Pedro leaves.
Loria guts the team, then leaves.
Contraction talks.
Playing home games 3,000 miles away from home.
Their retractable roof doesn't retract.

The least Montreal deserves is a playoff atmosphere. The fact that fans still show up to the games is a testament to their resolve. To say otherwise would be crazy; over the last 10 years, they're hands-down the most neglected team, fan-wise, in baseball.
spf
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#9 Posted on 30.8.03 1208.32
Reposted on: 30.8.10 1211.30
How embarassing would it be to MLB to have a playoff game held in a half-empty stadium, which just at first glance I would guess to be likely if Montreal makes the playoffs. Maybe the Montreal area-wieners would know better, would they actually draw a full house for a Divisional playoff series game?
BigVitoMark
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#10 Posted on 30.8.03 1302.25
Reposted on: 30.8.10 1310.09
    Originally posted by Bullitt
      Originally posted by BigVitoMark
      And that town could be rewarded with playoff baseball over Chicago, St. Louis, or Philadelphia? That's absurd.


    That sentence is absurd...

    So the CITY deserves the playoffs over the TEAM that actually, ya know, goes out a qualifies for them?

    If Chicago, St Louis, or Philly want playoff baseball, go out and earn it...don't expect it simply because "we're a better baseball town than Montreal." Geez...


I don't think I've ever said that the EXPOS shouldn't be in the playoffs because their fans suck. My point was that the city of MONTREAL doesn't deserve playoff baseball. The figures speak for themselves. The team is a game out of a playoff spot and they're averaging 12 thousand and change for home games. Even back in 1994 when everyone thought they were a World Series calibre team they still averaged under 25, 000. If you have a World Series favourite playing in your town and less than 25, 000 people are going to the games, you don't deserve to watch a winner. If you've got Vladimir Guerrero, Jose Vidro, Orlando Cabrera, and Javier Vasquez driving your team towards the playoffs and you can't bring 13, 000 people out to watch them, your city doesn't deserve a winner. More power to the Expos if they do make it, hopefully that will get them closer to getting out of Montreal and into a city that will appreciate good baseball.
Big Bad
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#11 Posted on 30.8.03 1840.42
Reposted on: 30.8.10 1841.45
Oakland doesn't draw flies either, and that's after four years of having a playoff-caliber team.
Bullitt
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#12 Posted on 30.8.03 2258.24
Reposted on: 30.8.10 2259.01
    Originally posted by BigVitoMark
    If you've got Vladimir Guerrero, Jose Vidro, Orlando Cabrera, and Javier Vasquez driving your team towards the playoffs and you can't bring 13, 000 people out to watch them, your city doesn't deserve a winner.


Then could you please explain the 20,000 per game that showed up at the Big O for the four games of the Philly series earlier this week...
darkdragoon
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#13 Posted on 30.8.03 2336.55
Reposted on: 30.8.10 2339.26
wasn't it Hot Dog night or something?

d'backs are far from out, a streak of actually scoring runs should do it, the pitching is more than adequate.
BigVitoMark
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#14 Posted on 31.8.03 0018.00
Reposted on: 31.8.10 0018.39
    Originally posted by Bullitt
      Originally posted by BigVitoMark
      If you've got Vladimir Guerrero, Jose Vidro, Orlando Cabrera, and Javier Vasquez driving your team towards the playoffs and you can't bring 13, 000 people out to watch them, your city doesn't deserve a winner.


    Then could you please explain the 20,000 per game that showed up at the Big O for the four games of the Philly series earlier this week...


I think the fact that, on the season, the Expos are drawing 7,000 fans per game less than the Detroit Tigers is much more indicative of the value the club has to the community in Montreal than the fact that they drew well for a couple of games against a contender at the end of August. When the worst team in the history of baseball is outdrawing you by a wide margin, you're playing in a city that doesn't care and doesn't deserve you.

And in response to Big Bad, the A's at their lowest point in the mid-90s still drew more on average than the Expos have this year. For 2003 the A's have them more than doubled on a per game basis, and that's with another first place team just across the bridge. I don't see what that has to do with whether Montreal as a city deserves the Expos and their success.

(edited by BigVitoMark on 30.8.03 2221)
Bullitt
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#15 Posted on 31.8.03 1209.22
Reposted on: 31.8.10 1210.33
    Originally posted by BigVitoMark
      Originally posted by Bullitt
        Originally posted by BigVitoMark
        If you've got Vladimir Guerrero, Jose Vidro, Orlando Cabrera, and Javier Vasquez driving your team towards the playoffs and you can't bring 13, 000 people out to watch them, your city doesn't deserve a winner.


      Then could you please explain the 20,000 per game that showed up at the Big O for the four games of the Philly series earlier this week...


    I think the fact that, on the season, the Expos are drawing 7,000 fans per game less than the Detroit Tigers is much more indicative of the value the club has to the community in Montreal than the fact that they drew well for a couple of games against a contender at the end of August. When the worst team in the history of baseball is outdrawing you by a wide margin, you're playing in a city that doesn't care and doesn't deserve you.


But the whole point of your arguement was "if you've got Guerrero, Vidro, Cabrera, and Vasquez leading you to the playoffs and you can't get 13,000 to the games then Montreal doesn't deserve a winner."

Well those four HAVE been leading Montreal in a playoff run, and they HAVE been drawing 20,000 to home games. That seems to meet your own definition...outdrawing a number you created yourself to determine worthiness.

Why SHOULD the fans of Montreal continue to support the Expos? It's obvious they're a lame-duck franchise, of course. Are fans still pissed off at the "What If?" of '94? Who knows, but those who do show up are obviously diehard Expo fans, and there are millions of other diehard Expo fans across the country, including me (and Big Bad and El Nastio)...so who are you to tell us we "don't deserve a winner?"

I'm 32. I remember a time when the Expos were the ONLY team we had in Canada. And growing up on the East Coast meant you were a HUGE Expos fan as a kid. I know I was...and I still am. Losing the Expos will suck...it'll happen, unless someone who has been under the radar decides he/she wants to "buy something" and keep them in town. Doubtful, but a guy can dream.

My guess...you're a disgruntled Blue Jays fan upset that the Expos have a better record (again this year!) and you're getting tired of some positive press for the Expos after years of nothing but Jay love in this conutry. :)

(edited by CRZ on 31.8.03 1146)
BigVitoMark
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#16 Posted on 31.8.03 1324.49
Reposted on: 31.8.10 1325.17
Disgruntled Jays fan? Hardly. No one could be happier that me at the poor fortunes that have hit that club in the last ten years.

Why should the fans continue to support the Expos? It may well be too late now, but if they had supported the team over the past ten years or so they probably wouldn't be a lame duck franchise the way they are now. There's no doubt that Montreal has good people in the personnel department, and the A's (my team, by the way) have shown that with good people in the right places small market teams can survive. And supporting a team for a week when things are going good isn't support, it's following a fad. If you can put 20, 000 in the Big O per game over the course of a season for a year or two, that might be a sign that the city actually cares.

I'm not saying that the Expos don't have any supporters. I know they do, and I feel bad for them that they're going to lose their team. But it's hard to justify keeping a franchise in a place where the community cleary doesn't want it.
J.T. Dutch
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#17 Posted on 3.9.03 0832.34
Reposted on: 3.9.10 0833.01
BigVitoMark: "The Cubs have the best pitching of the bunch"

... Now THAT'S funny.

I suppose that the fact that the Dodgers' ERA is around 80 points lower than the Cubs' doesn't count for anything.

O-K.
Whitebacon
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#18 Posted on 3.9.03 1832.00
Reposted on: 3.9.10 1840.00
The Dodgers benefit greatly from Chavez Ravine.

Kevin Brown: Home- 2.25
Road- 2.29

Odalis Perez: Home- 2.73
Road- 5.82

Hideo Nomo: Home- 3.32
Road- 2.43

Kaz Ishii: Home- 2.57
Road- 4.02

Wilson Alvarez Home- 0.85
Road- 4.31

Darren Dreifort Home- 2.25
Road- 7.52

Andy Ashby Home- 5.54
Road- 4.76

The interesting guy here is Nomo, his ERA actually goes down once he leaves his home yard. Brown's splits don't surprise me much, when he's healthy he's always nails. Ashby has just been bad whereever he pitches.
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