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21.12.07 0653
The 7 - Pro Wrestling - A few things I think I think.....
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rockdotcom_2.0
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#1 Posted on 18.2.02 0645.49
Reposted on: 18.2.09 0652.40
Much respect to CNNSI.com and Sports Illustrated mag NFL writer Peter King whose column I never miss during the saeson....

1. I think that history was made last night and maybe no one noticed it. Think about it, we watched a wrestling show where Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, The Rock, and Stone Cold Steve Austin all appeared on. These are the four men that have defined wrestling over the past 25 years. Throw in Vincent Mcmahon as the owner, and Jim Ross on commentary and thats something pretty special, to me anyway.

2. I think thats its going to be hard for me to hate Hogan. The smark in me is saying that I should, but the 10 year old kid who loved Hogan wont let me. I mean if you were a kid in 1986 you LOVED Hulk Hogan, period. I dont know how hated Hogan really is inside the Locker Room or whatever but I know this. The wrestling biz is what it is today because of him. 90% of wrestling fans in my age range (Im 26) are fans because of him. Sure we got smarter in our old age and we found out about his backstage politics or whatever and we blamed him for this or that, but hes still a legend and he deserves the same grand finish to his career that were all hoping Flair will get.

Ill keep the next ones short....

3. If Nash and Hogan were both sitting on their asses collecting checks from AOLTW and Hall was working in Japan, why did Hall have the biggest gut?

4. I think the best match(to me) from last night was Goldust and RVD. But if RVD REALLY wants to get over hes going to have to learn to throw a better punch then he does.

5. I think that Tazz and Spike could really have legs as a team but they got to keep the 7 footers away from them.

6. I think that Albert is going to regret the day he agreed to be called the "hip-hop hippo."

6a. I think he already does.

7. Maven has a definite long term future in the WWF. He already sells like a champ, and he has a grip on psychology. Probably a better grip than RVD does. The good part about Maven is he wont have to unlearn any dumb habits that the WWF doesnt like. All is training has been in the WWF style. Then again that could hurt him in the long run.

8. I think that its not how long that Jericho holds the titles, to me its how close he stays to the title mix when he eventually drops them. Jericho can very easily get forgotten in the glut of main eventer that the WWF now has.

8a. I think Jericho knows this all to well.

8b. I think that Jerico is now BEGGING Steph to join his side to keep him relevant.

9. Lastly I think that if you need Steph to keep your heat thats a BAD thing...lol.
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WTF13
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#2 Posted on 18.2.02 0710.50
Reposted on: 18.2.09 0717.08
I'm proud to say that I always hated Hogan, even during the Eighties. Not because of backsatage politics--I knew nothing about that back then, nor did anyone else. I just hated him because he never lost, and his style of wrestling was boring. Any time Hogan got beaten up, or on the rare occasions he lost, I marked out like crazy. I remember that match with Bad News Brown where I really thought Hogan was gonna lose--I got pissed when Brown called for the mic so he could insult Hogan, because I knew that meant he wasn't going to get the win. The same thing for Hercules Hernandez when he couldn't get Hogan to submit to the backbreaker, but took several seconds to figure out he could PIN hogan after putting him in the move. "PIN HIM YOU IDIOT!" By then of course it was too late.

So I really hope they don't try and turn him face and give him one last run, though they will if they think there will be money in it. And I guess there probably is, because most fans are like you and have fond memories of Hulkamania. And there's nothing wrong with that, just that if they go in that direction it will probably make me less likely to watch.
cfgb
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#3 Posted on 18.2.02 0712.26
Reposted on: 18.2.09 0717.09
I think thats its going to be hard for me to hate Hogan. The smark in me is saying that I should, but the 10 year old kid who loved Hogan wont let me.

I think the reasons to hate Hogan in the past were simply due to his political clout in the backstage - but now that he has none people just need excuses to hate him, or have forgotten what their problem was with him in the past.

The only problem I forsee with Hulk, is that when he does get himself into a feud, we're going to have smarks crying every freakin' time he scores a pinfall. "WHY DIDN'T HE PUT OVER STEVE AUSTIN IN THAT MATCH? IT WAS A GREAT CHANCE TO PASS THE TORCH AND HE DIDN'T DO IT!" Of course forgetting the point that every feud has give and take, and sooner or later Austin WILL get his win...

If you really need a reason to whine about Hogan, you'll find a way. As it stands, with Vince in charge, I'm more than willing to give him one last go-around before he calls it quits, and be optimistic that when I see him score big wins, it's because he's going to return those down the line.

Can't say I was impressed by the nWo's debut at No Way Out (simply ruining the main event) but I'll give it time to build. I suspect we're in for a wild night on RAW - or at least pray the WWF has a semblance of a clue how to use these guys to the full extent.
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#4 Posted on 18.2.02 0724.52
Reposted on: 18.2.09 0729.03
No Way Out -- that sums up how I felt watching it. What an awful show! And to witness those three "dangerous" nWo idiots standing in the ring at the end, huffing and puffing after their completely lame run-in and beatdown on Austin ... puh-leeze. They were out of breath after one minute of work!
Whoever's responsible for writing/booking the nWo's debut should hand back their paycheck.
TheBucsFan
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#5 Posted on 18.2.02 0731.35
Reposted on: 18.2.09 0732.29

    Originally posted by WTF13
    I'm proud to say that I always hated Hogan, even during the Eighties. Not because of backsatage politics--I knew nothing about that back then, nor did anyone else. I just hated him because he never lost, and his style of wrestling was boring. Any time Hogan got beaten up, or on the rare occasions he lost, I marked out like crazy. I remember that match with Bad News Brown where I really thought Hogan was gonna lose--I got pissed when Brown called for the mic so he could insult Hogan, because I knew that meant he wasn't going to get the win. The same thing for Hercules Hernandez when he couldn't get Hogan to submit to the backbreaker, but took several seconds to figure out he could PIN hogan after putting him in the move. "PIN HIM YOU IDIOT!" By then of course it was too late.


Never mind that I don't believe a word of this, but even if it were true, I'm not sure I would be "proud to say" it.
SirBubNorm
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#6 Posted on 18.2.02 0745.28
Reposted on: 18.2.09 0750.41
    Originally posted by cfgb
    I think thats its going to be hard for me to hate Hogan. The smark in me is saying that I should, but the 10 year old kid who loved Hogan wont let me.

    I think the reasons to hate Hogan in the past were simply due to his political clout in the backstage - but now that he has none people just need excuses to hate him, or have forgotten what their problem was with him in the past.

    ...

    If you really need a reason to whine about Hogan, you'll find a way. As it stands, with Vince in charge, I'm more than willing to give him one last go-around before he calls it quits, and be optimistic that when I see him score big wins, it's because he's going to return those down the line.



I don't know. I'm only 2 years older than mr. rocket, but I hated Hogan in 1988 already (that was the year of WM IV wasn't it?). I hated seeing the Hulk hulk up. I hated the "prayers and demandmants" speech. I hated it when his buddy Mr. T, lost the boxing match to Roddy Piper at WM II and everyone still though T was so great. I hated it when he lost to Andre at WM III and they never really explained (that I can remember) why there wasn't a hold up of the title at least. I hated it a year later when it did appear (in storylines) as though he had a fondness for Elizabeth, and yet when Savage accused him of having lust in eyes for her, everyone "believed" Hogan. I hated it that he kicked out of everyone else's finishers (to the point of completely no selling it (Savage and the elbow drop again come immediately to mind)) yet no one kicked out of a stupid leg drop. And how ackward did the big boot set up before it look? :p And when he did lose a match because of count out or screwjob (remember the double Hefners) all I could think was "What a whiner".

And then a couple of years later, I found out how much power he had backstage and then I really learned to hate him.


(edited by SirBubNorm on 18.2.02 0748)
WTF13
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#7 Posted on 18.2.02 0846.33
Reposted on: 18.2.09 0859.03
I would be skeptical toward what I said were I to hear it from someone else, I suppose, but I grew up watching Mid-South Wrestling, and that show had a very heavy anti-WWF vibe, with Bill Watts badmouthing McMahon and Hogan every chance he got. The general impression of the WWF for fans growing up in the Mid-South area during the Eighties is that it was "crap from New York." And as I said in another thread, the WWF programming that you saw in television was very dull back then.

I guess "proud" is probably the wrong word. Just that even though I was a total mark back then, I knew that the heels were the ones worth watching, though I would always mark out for my favorites even if they turned face, like Jake Roberts.
jimimium
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#8 Posted on 18.2.02 0849.19
Reposted on: 18.2.09 0859.04
I've been a heel mark since day one (BAD IS GOOD! DOWN WITH GOVERNMENT!) and even as a wee lad I wasn't that keen on the Hulkster.. I was a Roddy Piper/Million Dollar Man mark as a kid.. imagine the fights that got me in on the playground.. *grins*

Anyway.. the only babyface that really sucked me in in the Rock 'n Wrestling era was the Macho Man.. Randy Savage was simply the man..

And I did have that period of marking for the Warrior.. but I blame that on cough syrup.
TheBucsFan
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#9 Posted on 18.2.02 0850.09
Reposted on: 18.2.09 0859.05
    Originally posted by WTF13
    I would be skeptical toward what I said were I to hear it from someone else, I suppose, but I grew up watching Mid-South Wrestling, and that show had a very heavy anti-WWF vibe, with Bill Watts badmouthing McMahon and Hogan every chance he got. The general impression of the WWF for fans growing up in the Mid-South area during the Eighties is that it was "crap from New York." And as I said in another thread, the WWF programming that you saw in television was very dull back then.

    I guess "proud" is probably the wrong word. Just that even though I was a total mark back then, I knew that the heels were the ones worth watching, though I would always mark out for my favorites even if they turned face, like Jake Roberts.



Now this makes more sense. The other person was saying he watched the WWF (we've all heard the old lemming/sheep comments before) but hated Hogan anyway, which I find hard to believe.

Edit: Whoops, the "other guy" was you. he he. OK then.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 18.2.02 0954)
jimimium
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#10 Posted on 18.2.02 0851.57
Reposted on: 18.2.09 0859.06
Seriously man, I have pictured of myself at age 7 with a decapitated Hogan toy if you want me to try to dig them up to scan.. Skeletor owned his ass.
WTF13
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#11 Posted on 18.2.02 0914.03
Reposted on: 18.2.09 0921.44
I watched the WWF mainly for Piper's Pit. When Savage came along, things got a little more exciting, because even his squash matches were entertaining. I was a big mark for almost anyone who had come from the Mid-South area, so I was a big DiBiase and Jake Roberts fan. However, this didn't translate to Hacksaw Jim Duggan. He was great in the Mid-South, but forever became a joke after entering the WWF.

At first, I really dug the heel Hogan, but that didn't last because it had the same problems as the old Hogan did--boring matches, with no suspense as to who would win.

Anyway, after thinking about it, I would be willing to accept a final run with Hogan as a face, but only if it didn't last too long, and if they were willing to play with it a little bit to make it interesting.

Back to the original point of the thread, I guess No Way Out was sort of historical, but it was in sort of a too little too late sort of way---kind of like when Flair and Hogan went at it during the mid-Nineties, about five years too late to have it be worth watching [and with a lousy booking team behind it.] Now it's more of a novelty.
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#12 Posted on 18.2.02 1817.27
Reposted on: 18.2.09 1822.42

    Originally posted by TheBucsFan


    Now this makes more sense. The other person was saying he watched the WWF (we've all heard the old lemming/sheep comments before) but hated Hogan anyway, which I find hard to believe.

    Edit: Whoops, the "other guy" was you. he he. OK then.

    (edited by TheBucsFan on 18.2.02 0954)



Actually in this case, I'm not sure what lemmings or sheep have to do with anything. I watched the AWA occasionally, would have loved to have watched the NWA but didn't get the appropriate channels so I couldn't, so I watched the WWF. I didn't get PPV. It was rough waiting the week to find out the results. Sometimes I got lucky and the local paper gave the results in the sports section.

And as I said by 1987-1988, I had pretty much gotten around to disliking Hogan. You can only see him Hulk up after getting hit by a finisher from someone else you like so many times before you begin not liking the guy.

Remind me again of one enjoyable thing he did around that time again? (And please don't tell me the PileDriver video )
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#13 Posted on 18.2.02 1842.54
Reposted on: 18.2.09 1845.42
Right around 1988 I really didnt start disliking Hogan as much as I was outgrowing him. I became immersed in NWA with the Flair-Sting-Lex Luger-Steamboat battles. I remember being drawn to these guys because Hogan was never on TV actually wrestling, But these guys put on the goods every week on TBS tv.
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#14 Posted on 18.2.02 1843.41
Reposted on: 18.2.09 1849.54
It may be kind of sick and all, but I honestly kind of liked Subruban Commando.. it was stupid enough that Hogan's overacting worked out reasonably in it.. same goes for Mr. Nanny (or whatever the one with him doing ballet was).. neither are particularly great, or even 'good' movies, but both can be reasonably entertaining.. and if you're in the right mood, they're hilarious.
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#15 Posted on 18.2.02 1856.25
Reposted on: 18.2.09 1859.03

    Originally posted by SirBubNorm

      Originally posted by TheBucsFan


      Now this makes more sense. The other person was saying he watched the WWF (we've all heard the old lemming/sheep comments before) but hated Hogan anyway, which I find hard to believe.

      Edit: Whoops, the "other guy" was you. he he. OK then.

      (edited by TheBucsFan on 18.2.02 0954)



    Actually in this case, I'm not sure what lemmings or sheep have to do with anything. I watched the AWA occasionally, would have loved to have watched the NWA but didn't get the appropriate channels so I couldn't, so I watched the WWF. I didn't get PPV. It was rough waiting the week to find out the results. Sometimes I got lucky and the local paper gave the results in the sports section.

    And as I said by 1987-1988, I had pretty much gotten around to disliking Hogan. You can only see him Hulk up after getting hit by a finisher from someone else you like so many times before you begin not liking the guy.

    Remind me again of one enjoyable thing he did around that time again? (And please don't tell me the PileDriver video )



Actually, that comment didn't make sense. I said it when I thought I was talking about two different people, one who just watched the WWF but still said he hated Hogan, and one who watched Mid-South and hated Hogan. As it turned out, I was wrong and I was just talking to the Mid-South viewer.
DMC
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#16 Posted on 20.2.02 1546.31
Reposted on: 20.2.09 1548.21
Hey I liked the Flair-Hogan feud in the mid-90s. As an old-timer casual fan, it gave me something to get excited about again after having not watched wrestling closely for years. I think many like me in their late 20s kind of outgrew wrestling while in high school in the late 80s and early 90s. Hogan going to the NWA/WCW was something interesting to watch again and brought me back to wrestling in the 90s.

DMC
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#17 Posted on 20.2.02 1603.21
Reposted on: 20.2.09 1610.54
I never liked Hogan AND I was a big WWF watcher in the 80s. However, I was a Stampede watcher from the 70s, so I liked the Harts and Bulldogs style. I never liked the standard Hogan fare of shaking, pointing, leg drop. I didn't like that he could never be beaten. I very much liked that the Undertaker beat him (I really liked UT when he appeared, with his flying clothesline, walking ropes, etc.)

I will say I liked Hogan a lot more than the Warrior, which to me was Hogan's flaws magnified.
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#18 Posted on 21.2.02 1137.23
Reposted on: 21.2.09 1138.31
I was 11 years old in 1986 when I started getting into the WWF. I was a sorta fan, and it was Savage vs Steamboat on Superstars (When Savage "Crushed" Steamboat's Throat with the Bell) for the IC belt that really pulled me in.
I was a huge mark, I cheered all the faces, hated the Heels, and there was no Face bigger than Hogan. Of course Steamboat was my favorite, although I hated the fact that when he fought, even jobbers looked like they could beat the guy. Of course now I just see it as great in ring work, and selling, but I was a stupid kid then (As opposed to a stupid Adult).

Yes, as I look back on it, I am ashamed to admit, that I WAS A HULKAMANIAC!
I also marked out for Warrior when he first started hitting the scene (I first recall seeing him in a 10 man battle royal on Superstars that Bam Bam Bigelo won. I had no clue who the Warrior was at the time, but soon after, I found out)

Now over the years, my wrestling tastes changed, but when the late Yokozuna crushed Hogan, (1993?) I was outwardly happy to see him go, but a part of me, the 12 year old Mark that was still there, was sad.

Of course My tastes now are for wrestlers with good skill in the ring, and decent mic skills (of course if I had to choose, no contest I want someone who can wrestle well, let him get a manager to do the Mic work)
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#19 Posted on 21.2.02 1154.56
Reposted on: 21.2.09 1155.55
I don't know why people find it so hard to believe someone could not like Hulk Hogan back in the 80's. Growing up I watched tons of wrestling, the first thing that hooked me were the WCCW broadcasts with the Von Erichs. And then I watched all the rest of the stuff. I remember going to the UIC pavillion at 9 years old and cheering for Ric Flair and the Midnight Express. I remember being so annoyed when Hulk Hogan won at WM3 and telling anyone who would listen that the ref really counted three at the beginning of the match. I just never dug Hulk Hogan, though I will admit for a time I was just a full-on Ultimate Warrior mark. I just thought growing up that it would be much cooler to grow up to be Ric Flair than it would to be Hulk Hogan.
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