Mayhem
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| #21 Posted on 10.7.03 1228.34 Reposted on: 10.7.10 1229.02 | I personally like Orton as a smarta**, cocky heel ... he seems better suited for that role ... it they turn him face, it'll just cheese him out (see Brock Lesnar & Kurt Angle)... but hey it's Vince, so it wouldn't surprise me. | PostModernBoy
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| #22 Posted on 10.7.03 1406.29 Reposted on: 10.7.10 1407.37 | Yes, Orton has that smartass vibe. As long as he is booked to back that up in the ring, he makes for a good heel.
He's young and still a bit green, so you don't want to give him the main event push prematurely. Yet, that he will be given every opportunity to earn that push. With his look and wrestling pedigree, he's a perfect fit for a main event picture. All he has to do is perform, especially on the stick.
For now, he and Flair serve as stepping stones to a match with Triple H. Eventually, Orton can team with Flair or with a new Evolution member for a tag title reign. After that, Orton can be pushed into an IC feud.
And he should go no higher. Unless....
The only reason to push Orton higher than that in the next 18 months or so is if he gets sufficiently over that he gets a face pop while a heel.
In which case you rely on the old stand-by of master vs. student. Since Triple H works better as a heel, I think, this would involve Orton thinking that he's good enough to take on the champ. Then, maybe he wins a battle royal or even the Royal Rumble for a shot at the belt. He's told to step aside, but eventually refuses, taking pride in his ability. Maybe Flair turns face with him. Maybe Flair goes with Orton, then turns on him.
But you do this only if the fans turn Orton face. Which I can see happening if he has a good verbal feud with Mick Foley and show that he can carry a verbal feud with his next opponent.
| oldschoolhero
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| #23 Posted on 10.7.03 1514.32 Reposted on: 10.7.10 1519.40 | ....or he could just ascend by becoming ridiculously over as a heel. That's something we haven't seen in months-Hell, maybe even years. | KevinKellyisFNHardcore
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| #24 Posted on 10.7.03 1624.40 Reposted on: 10.7.10 1629.01 |
Originally posted by Kevintripod Would people have kept on seeing all those Rocky movies if they knew Rocky was going to take a "great beating" and lose everytime ? Would the Star Wars series have been a big hit if Vader and the Empire crushed the rebellion in every film ?
All I'm saying is that you have to let the underdog win at least occasionally for the fans to keep coming back.
You are right. The underdog has to win sometimes and Mick has won before. He's a three-time WWF champion, but frankly, if he HAS to come back to wrestle (which I do not want to see), then it should be in service of putting over a new star, which is what WWE needs badly right now. What they don't need is more part-time old-timers clogging up the upper card. Foley's an old man whose best drawing days are behind him. What he did for Hunter was great back in 2000 because the WWF needed a new heel and Hunter was a good choice at the time. Foley doesn't need to win any more matches to solidify his reputation and right now, they need him to use his magic on a guy like Orton. | JustinShapiro
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| #25 Posted on 10.7.03 1635.20 Reposted on: 10.7.10 1635.31 | I think Randy's delivery is awesome/hilarious.
"[Rock has] a limited moveset."
With 11 seconds of thought ...
Rock Bottom People's Elbow spinebuster sharpshooter DDT floatover DDT flyin' clothesline belly-to-belly throw spit~! punch~!
If you came up with a list for Kurt Angle, would it be that much bigger? "Movesets" are more than a little overrated, especially when the great WWE matches are built around hitting, countering, and/or reversing the signature spots in glorious, dramatic fashion. He has incredible exchanges with those moves. Plus what's it matter so long as his timing and comebacks are so ridiculously great? | Tenken347
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| #26 Posted on 10.7.03 1740.39 Reposted on: 10.7.10 1741.37 | Again, Randy's got about a year's experience in the WWE. In that extrememly limited amount of time, he's been even more hampered by back-to-back injuries. In spite of that, the guy's clearly worked his ass off to improve both on the mic and in the ring. Does anyone else remember when he was rescuing JR's cowboy hat? How bad that was? Randy's come a long way in a short time, and while only time will tell if he's gonna get better than he is now, if he continues to improve at this rate he really will be the next generation of wrestling. That said, is he ready for the main event right now? No. But I think the steady push that they've put him on is the right direction. | darkmatcher
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| #27 Posted on 10.7.03 1748.41 Reposted on: 10.7.10 1752.33 |
Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad Personally I don't get the whole "Orton's great" sentiment around here. His interviews aren't funny or original. I'm not saying they're bad, but there's nothing great about them. He's never taken the stick and made me interested, or made me even crack a smile. His RNN update was a net darling gimmick, but it was essentially the exact same promo with the percentage of healing changed, so I don't think he deserves be be lauded for it. His wrestling is even less spectacular, he's got about five moves, and like Jeb Lund said, "sadly, breaking his foot is one of them". He stole his finisher from Diamond Dallas Page of all people.
I concur. He seems just another generic heel, nothing special or original. RNN was the only thing that ever interested me, and I tried to give him a chance but he hasn't proven himself beyond it.
He's got kind of the same problem of La Resistance, and is just barely better overall(Randy that is, La Resistance are the big black hole of suck in the WWE). | SKLOKAZOID
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| #28 Posted on 10.7.03 1756.03 Reposted on: 10.7.10 1759.04 | Randy Orton has a long ways to go before he can get to the point of being "held back." The RNN stuff was funny, and there were a lot of little things that he did that really enhanced him as a character.
There's also another part of me that can't help thinking about Buff Bagwell every time I see Randy Orton. There was a time when people thought Buff was a star of the future. Buff was charismatic, could think of a million different things that rhymed with "Buff," and had an actual following at one point. Then, he was doing that 3/4 years later and nobody cared. He never developed.
Granted, Buff Bagwell's backstage behavior had a lot to do with why he wasn't a success, but it just seems like he got to a certain point then didn't go any further. Randy Orton is at that point right now, but time will tell if he goes beyond what he is now. Vince McMahon has a history of helping people like that, but I don't think he's done that for a few years now.
He definitely has potential, and talent, but he needs more time. | KevinKellyisFNHardcore
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| #29 Posted on 10.7.03 1814.22 Reposted on: 10.7.10 1815.56 |
Originally posted by JMShapiro I think Randy's delivery is awesome/hilarious.
"[Rock has] a limited moveset."
With 11 seconds of thought ...
Rock Bottom People's Elbow spinebuster sharpshooter DDT floatover DDT flyin' clothesline belly-to-belly throw spit~! punch~!
If you came up with a list for Kurt Angle, would it be that much bigger? "Movesets" are more than a little overrated, especially when the great WWE matches are built around hitting, countering, and/or reversing the signature spots in glorious, dramatic fashion. He has incredible exchanges with those moves. Plus what's it matter so long as his timing and comebacks are so ridiculously great?
Definitely agree with you here. Too many people slag Rocky because he's not a luchadore who can do fifty-million flipyflop moves. That's why I don't necessarily buy into that X-Division stuff TNA has going. Some of those guys wouldn't know a transition if it fell from the sky. Just because you know a move and are able to pull it off without killing yourself or the other worker doesn't mean it is effective in the course of a match. Triple H, a guy people give shit to for working bad matches, was praised as being "the next Ric Flair" during his run in 1999 and 2000. Funny, but he was doing the same shtick he does today, it's just that his matches lack heat because instead of giving to his opponent, he takes. He didn't learn a bunch of crazy planchas and shit in 2000 and then forget them in 2002.
By the way, does Rock still do the Samoan Drop? I don't think I've seen him do that in forever. | Jakegnosis
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| #30 Posted on 10.7.03 2349.10 Reposted on: 10.7.10 2350.11 | I think Orton is pretty bland, personally. His moves are vanilla, and while he can form complete sentences without sounding forced, he's no Rocky on the mic. He has the generic "arrogant" gimmick, which reeks of a lack of imagination from creative. I don't hate the guy, I just find him terminally boring, in and out of the ring. | SKLOKAZOID
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| #31 Posted on 11.7.03 1032.10 Reposted on: 11.7.10 1033.30 |
Originally posted by KevinKellyisFNHardcore The underdog has to win sometimes and Mick has won before. He's a three-time WWF champion, but frankly, if he HAS to come back to wrestle (which I do not want to see), then it should be in service of putting over a new star, which is what WWE needs badly right now. What they don't need is more part-time old-timers clogging up the upper card. Foley's an old man whose best drawing days are behind him. What he did for Hunter was great back in 2000 because the WWF needed a new heel and Hunter was a good choice at the time. Foley doesn't need to win any more matches to solidify his reputation and right now, they need him to use his magic on a guy like Orton.
Foley doesn't have to lose to put Orton over. The Rock was pretty much solidified as a main event star every time he lost to Steve Austin. Foley got mega-over every time he lost to the Undertaker and Steve Austin. Steve Austin lost every match to Bret Hart.
Really, what it comes down to, is who plays the face and who plays the heel and which outcome tells the story best. "Putting someone over" doesn't always mean "jobbing." | rlbehan
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| #32 Posted on 11.7.03 1057.20 Reposted on: 11.7.10 1058.33 | I am not seeing the same Randy Orton that everyone else is, I guess. I look at where he is in a year, and where Kurt Angle was at a year, and Orton is a joke in comparison. Yes, Orton has been hurt, but I am not seeing him generate the kind of heat that many here seem to think he has. Maybe he should put a cast and cowboy hat on, and bring the old man back for a tag team. | ALL ORIGINAL POSTS IN THIS THREAD ARE NOW AVAILABLE |
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