Grimis
Scrapple
Level: 129
   
Posts: 1725/4700
EXP: 24465075
For next: 584646
Since: 11.7.02
From: MD
Since last post: 2547 days
Last activity: 1002 days
|  #1 Posted on 9.7.03 0607.10
Reposted on: 9.7.10 0608.05 | Anybody care to wonder aloud why the PC police have not fried Dusty Baker for his racially charged comments from over the weekend.
God knows that if it were Joe Torre or Grady Little they would've been fired already or suspended by Bud Selig a la Al Campanis, John Rocker et al... | Promote this thread! |             | vsp
Andouille
Level: 90
Posts: 1205/2042
EXP: 7120037
For next: 68599
Since: 3.1.02
From: Philly
Since last post: 4311 days
Last activity: 566 days
| #2 Posted on 9.7.03 0806.43
Reposted on: 9.7.10 0807.24 | The usual rationale applies -- if you belong to a particular group (be it racial, ethnic, sexual preference, whatever), you can get away with describing or stereotyping your group in terms that would get non-members shredded. I can think of dozens of examples of this off the top of my head...
| PalpatineW
Lap cheong
Level: 80
Posts: 742/1528
EXP: 4609053
For next: 173936
Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy
Since last post: 4108 days
Last activity: 3950 days
| AIM: |  |
| | |
| #3 Posted on 9.7.03 0930.11
Reposted on: 9.7.10 0930.32 | vsp: He wasn't just describing his own race. He was describing us whiteys as being unable to stand the heat.
That being said, I don't think it was racist. It was, however, really stupid: there's no evidence that people of color perform better in the heat. Furthermore, I don't think the "brothers" were brought here because they can stand the heat. I seem to remember my history class saying something about slavery.
Further question: Is it racist to say black people make better basketball players? Because I would interpret Dusty's comments along those lines, minus the statistical evidence to support them. | Grimis
Scrapple
Level: 129
Posts: 1729/4700
EXP: 24465075
For next: 584646
Since: 11.7.02
From: MD
Since last post: 2547 days
Last activity: 1002 days
| #4 Posted on 9.7.03 0942.20
Reposted on: 9.7.10 0942.35 |
Originally posted by vsp
The usual rationale applies -- if you belong to a particular group (be it racial, ethnic, sexual preference, whatever), you can get away with describing or stereotyping your group in terms that would get non-members shredded. I can think of dozens of examples of this off the top of my head...
I know...that's the point. | redsoxnation
Scrapple
Level: 158
Posts: 2655/7534
EXP: 49595876
For next: 1090459
Since: 24.7.02
Since last post: 1757 days
Last activity: 1757 days
| #5 Posted on 9.7.03 1012.47
Reposted on: 9.7.10 1013.18 |
Originally posted by Grimis
Anybody care to wonder aloud why the PC police have not fried Dusty Baker for his racially charged comments from over the weekend.
God knows that if it were Joe Torre or Grady Little they would've been fired already or suspended by Bud Selig a la Al Campanis, John Rocker et al...
As always, why the hell didn't Grady say something like this (then again, even if he did, no one can understand what the hell Foghorn Leghorn on crack says anyway).
As for Dusty's comments: I guess now I understand why Barry Bonds struggled in the post season when he was with Pittsburgh. He wasn't equipped to deal with the cold October weather. Perhaps this should tell teams that want to make a push for a World Series title to have an all white team ready for the post season, as the white player will have the advantage because of the cold weather. Also, using Dusty's logic, all NFL teams that play in the northern portion of the country should be all white, as the cold November and December games can only be handled by white players. And, why is Dusty starting Kerry Woods and Mark Prior during the summer? They will be inferior pitchers due to the heat. | Pool-Boy
Lap cheong
Level: 84
Posts: 1344/1759
EXP: 5591023
For next: 70953
Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA
Since last post: 2593 days
Last activity: 12 days
| #6 Posted on 9.7.03 1046.43
Reposted on: 9.7.10 1046.44 | I was always under the impression that different skin pigments DID help you cope with the temperature better. This does not make me racist- it is the same as if I said taller people can reach higher things.
The guy may not have been fired, but he is sure getting blasted for it. Though, on the other hand, I am not sure the weather is ever a big enough issue in baseball where a manager would actually have to consider sending out more white people because it is too cold....
(edited by Pool-Boy on 9.7.03 0847) | DrOp
Frankfurter
Level: 62
Posts: 466/859
EXP: 1942815
For next: 41882
Since: 2.1.02
Since last post: 3512 days
Last activity: 2379 days
| #7 Posted on 9.7.03 1132.24
Reposted on: 9.7.10 1133.26 | Pool Boy said:
I was always under the impression that different skin pigments DID help you cope with the temperature better.
Higher amounts of melanin in your skin allow you to absorb more ultraviolet radiation and therefore not burn (as easily--I have been sunburned).
There is also research that speaks to hair type as either allowing sweat to evaporate (wooly hair) more readily or keeping water in more (locks like Zed's, for instance).
I would not take any of this and make the case for any one type of person being better suited to play in hot/cold weather. | Big Bad
Scrapple
Level: 154
Posts: 1664/7053
EXP: 45702477
For next: 659497
Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario
Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 6 hours
|  #8 Posted on 9.7.03 1708.16
Reposted on: 9.7.10 1708.43 |
That being said, I don't think it was racist. It was, however, really stupid: there's no evidence that people of color perform better in the heat.
No biological evidence, perhaps, but I think it's just natural that a ballplayer from the Dominican or somewhere down south (or a player from Texas, Florida, Arizona, etc.) is more used to playing in scorching temperatures than northern-born players. Race has nothing to do with it. You always hear on golf telecasts how Mike Weir "has the edge" in cold-weather tournaments because he's Canadian.
(edited by Big Bad on 9.7.03 1808) | PalpatineW
Lap cheong
Level: 80
Posts: 748/1528
EXP: 4609053
For next: 173936
Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy
Since last post: 4108 days
Last activity: 3950 days
| AIM: | |
| | |
| #9 Posted on 9.7.03 1719.12
Reposted on: 9.7.10 1722.29 |
Originally posted by Big Bad
That being said, I don't think it was racist. It was, however, really stupid: there's no evidence that people of color perform better in the heat.
No biological evidence, perhaps, but I think it's just natural that a ballplayer from the Dominican or somewhere down south (or a player from Texas, Florida, Arizona, etc.) is more used to playing in scorching temperatures than northern-born players. Race has nothing to do with it. You always hear on golf telecasts how Mike Weir "has the edge" in cold-weather tournaments because he's Canadian.
(edited by Big Bad on 9.7.03 1808)
I live in Massachusetts, and I have spied the occasional black man in the state. I'm sure some of them were even born here, i.e., they know as much about heat as I do. | Stefonics
Frankfurter
Level: 61
Posts: 189/825
EXP: 1817240
For next: 59367
Since: 17.3.02
From: New Jerusalem
Since last post: 230 days
Last activity: 15 days
| #10 Posted on 9.7.03 2108.06
Reposted on: 9.7.10 2109.41 | You're right Palpatine... Black people who were born in America know about as much as the heat/cold as you do. But there has to be an evolutionary/biological reason behind the fact that people born in warmer climates tend to have darker skin pigmentation. I don't know that reason because I have never been interested in it. People are people. Fat people sweat in the heat more than thin people. Thin people shiver more in the cold. That being said, I know for a fact that I have to apply a lot of lotion to my skin in the winter months because it takes on a grey pallor. Ahiness is common in Black people in cold environments. Since the skin is a living organism, and grey is never associated with healthiness, it stands to reason that people with darker skin pigmentation tend to be healthier in warmer climates. As far as performing better, that's a completely different story.
As for Baker not getting suspended as Rocker did, I think it has less to do with the fact that he's a minority than with the fact that he didn't phrase it like "Them honkies ain't good at performin in the heat. Why do you think they brought all them niggers over from the dark continent?"
VSP: you said you can think of dozens of examples of this type of behavior off of the top of your head... I just want to hear five. Five statements that are offensive as anything Rocker or any other racist mother said. I'm not doubting you, but I can't really think of more than two. | MoeGates
Boudin blanc
Level: 94
Posts: 1376/2272
EXP: 8353905
For next: 2783
Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY
Since last post: 26 days
Last activity: 11 hours
| #11 Posted on 9.7.03 2245.53
Reposted on: 9.7.10 2248.11 | No biological evidence, perhaps, but I think it's just natural that a ballplayer from the Dominican or somewhere down south (or a player from Texas, Florida, Arizona, etc.) is more used to playing in scorching temperatures than northern-born players. Race has nothing to do with it. You always hear on golf telecasts how Mike Weir "has the edge" in cold-weather tournaments because he's Canadian
Ah. But to what then do you perscribe Mississippi born and raised Brett Favre's wizardry in the frozen Tundra of Lambeau Field? | Jaguar
Knackwurst
Level: 111
Posts: 1587/3282
EXP: 14483357
For next: 385049
Since: 23.1.02
From: In a Blue State finally
Since last post: 445 days
Last activity: 248 days
| #12 Posted on 9.7.03 2358.07
Reposted on: 9.7.10 2359.01 | Satanism.
-Jag | Big Bad
Scrapple
Level: 154
Posts: 1684/7053
EXP: 45702477
For next: 659497
Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario
Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 6 hours
| #13 Posted on 10.7.03 0752.50
Reposted on: 10.7.10 0755.01 |
Ah. But to what then do you perscribe Mississippi born and raised Brett Favre's wizardry in the frozen Tundra of Lambeau Field?
Because he is your God and mine. Besides, most of those games are against the Bears, Vikings and Lions, and who couldn't beat those chumpstains?
I live in Massachusetts, and I have spied the occasional black man in the state. I'm sure some of them were even born here, i.e., they know as much about heat as I do.
You misunderstand me, Palpatine. I meant that ANY person born in a certain climate will be more used to playing a sport in said climate, whether the person is black, white or purple. Obviously, pure talent trumps this (i.e. Favre), but for the average athlete, it may play a factor.
| vsp
Andouille
Level: 90
Posts: 1207/2042
EXP: 7120037
For next: 68599
Since: 3.1.02
From: Philly
Since last post: 4311 days
Last activity: 566 days
| #14 Posted on 10.7.03 0956.40
Reposted on: 10.7.10 0957.00 |
Originally posted by Kidbrooklyn
VSP: you said you can think of dozens of examples of this type of behavior off of the top of your head... I just want to hear five. Five statements that are offensive as anything Rocker or any other racist mother said. I'm not doubting you, but I can't really think of more than two.
That's comparing apples to oranges, somewhat. I can think of lots of examples of ethnic celebrities, comedians, etc. using slurs or sensitive language for artistic, ironic or humorous purposes in ways that would get non-ethnic celebrities flogged. (Snoop Dogg and Marge Schott may use similar terminology, but that's where the similarities end.) I don't class Baker's comments as being anywhere near those of Rocker's, however.
The thing about Rocker is that while his statements in his infamous SI interview were prejudicial, stereotypical and ignorant, the sentiments expressed were hardly unique to Rocker. I've heard them all before, hundreds of times, from people who didn't happen to be rich, famous, or being interviewed by a national publication.
When I spent my college years in Raleigh, NC, the number of people who weren't shy AT ALL about disparaging non-white-male-Americans was a real eye-opener. (Not that I don't hear the same things now and then back home in Philly, of course; racism and prejudice are not strictly Southern institutions by any means... but Rocker, a Georgia boy, may have grown up in an environment where expressing those sentiments didn't cause as much backlash as it might've elsewhere.)
Does any of the above _excuse_ such comments (whether they came from Rocker or from some nobody) or the attitudes that spawned them? Not at all. Rocker was merely a wake-up call for anyone who believed America was entering some sort of enlightened age where attitudes like those were going away.
As you noted, the context is important, and Baker wasn't being openly disparaging towards any specific race (IMHO) in his comments. Compare this to Al Campanis (who suggested that many blacks lacked unspecified "necessities" to assume management or leadership positions) or Jimmy "The Greek" Snyder (who followed his infamous slave-breeding comments by noting that if blacks started getting coaching jobs, "there wouldn't be anything left for the white people.") Baker's phrasing sounded more like "hey, here's a fact that's relevant" than "get the white boys off the field," which is important. | PalpatineW
Lap cheong
Level: 80
Posts: 757/1528
EXP: 4609053
For next: 173936
Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy
Since last post: 4108 days
Last activity: 3950 days
| AIM: | |
| | |
| #15 Posted on 10.7.03 1158.52
Reposted on: 10.7.10 1159.04 |
Originally posted by vsp
Rocker was merely a wake-up call for anyone who believed America was entering some sort of enlightened age where attitudes like those were going away.
Rocker is one man. Just one man. You can't make conclusions about society at large using John Rocker as your only sample. | vsp
Andouille
Level: 90
Posts: 1211/2042
EXP: 7120037
For next: 68599
Since: 3.1.02
From: Philly
Since last post: 4311 days
Last activity: 566 days
| #16 Posted on 10.7.03 1222.38
Reposted on: 10.7.10 1223.37 |
Originally posted by PalpatineW
Rocker is one man. Just one man. You can't make conclusions about society at large using John Rocker as your only sample.
I've heard them all before, hundreds of times, from people who didn't happen to be rich, famous, or being interviewed by a national publication.
When I spent my college years in Raleigh, NC, the number of people who weren't shy AT ALL about disparaging non-white-male-Americans was a real eye-opener.
But I repeat myself.
| fuelinjected
Banger
Level: 101
Posts: 1265/2679
EXP: 10443383
For next: 274329
Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada
Since last post: 4540 days
Last activity: 4540 days
| #17 Posted on 12.7.03 1739.22
Reposted on: 12.7.10 1739.41 | I say Cool Runnings shoots this theory to hell. 
The only problem I could see from this is if the Florida Marlins trade away all their white players.
| Big Bad
Scrapple
Level: 154
Posts: 1718/7053
EXP: 45702477
For next: 659497
Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario
Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 6 hours
| #18 Posted on 13.7.03 0208.16
Reposted on: 13.7.10 0208.24 |
The only problem I could see from this is if the Florida Marlins trade away all their white players.
They could deal them all to Toronto to play for the "White Jays."
| | ALL ORIGINAL POSTS IN THIS THREAD ARE NOW AVAILABLE |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
