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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - E&C and the Hardyz - Hindsight is 20/20
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Wpob
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#1 Posted on 5.6.03 0700.33
Reposted on: 5.6.10 0702.36
A few years ago, when these guys (along with the Dudleys) were the most dominate tag teams the WWE had seen in a long time, there were numerous debates over when they went the singles route, who would be the HBK and who would be the Marty Jannety.

The funny thing is, I would have to say about 99% of the wrestling community pegged Edge and Jeff Hardy as the breakout superstars. Jeff was being compared to HBK and Edge was being touted and the next great WWE Champion. As for Matt and Christian, jobberhood awaited.

The breakup starts and Edge and Jeff are catapulted as fan favorites and put in high profile matches. Christian and Matt are relegated to Heat and dark matches with no real future ahead of them.

As time passed, we watched Jeff get sloppier and sloppier in the ring and Edge seemed to only have real good matches with guys who could carry him a bit (see Angle). By this time, Christian was fine tuning his dickish heel character and Matt was starting up Mattitude.

Present day, Jeff is out of wreslting (at least WWE-wise) and Edge is out for another nine months with a neck injury and the biggest recent angle he had was teaming with Hogan. Christian had the tag belts with Jericho and has gotten a huge rub from the Rock and is now entering a feud as the Intercontinental Champion with Booker T while Matt has transformed into Matt Hardy V1.0 and has loyal followers of Mattitude. He was the Cruiserweight champion and will now feud with Mysterio and he has fought, and looked good, against Angle and Lesnar.

My point is this, has the IWC or anyone ever been so wrong about four wrestlers before? I mean, no one could have predicted this. Maybe you were a Christian fan or a Matt fan, but not both. Now, Christian has his peeps, Matt has his Mattitude followers while Jeff has lost the deisre and Edge has, in my eyes (although this could change upon his return), has become a better writer/commentator than he was a wreslter prior to getting hurt.

(Don't get me wrong, I love Edge. I still think he can be a ME player. But, prior to his injury, I did find his work a little boring and his matches were getting predicitable. Also, his mic work, while still real good, needed to be freshened up. I do hope he comes back better than ever though).

it just goes to show you that you never know with wrestlers as to who could be the breakout star and who could be the mid carder. Hell, maybe even one day, down the road, we will be saying the same thing about Chavo and Eddie or Shelton and Charlie.



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Grimis
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#2 Posted on 5.6.03 0741.44
Reposted on: 5.6.10 0741.56
Your point is well taken, because I remember when Edge was supposed to the be the second coming when he came. Then again, Tazz was going to run amok in the WWF and Mike Awesome was going to be a huge star...
StaggerLee
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#3 Posted on 5.6.03 0750.55
Reposted on: 5.6.10 0751.26
Well, Awesome did get HUGE. But a star? Nope!
Spaceman Spiff
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#4 Posted on 5.6.03 0821.27
Reposted on: 5.6.10 0822.08
re: Edge/Christian - Sure, Edge isn't anything great wrestling-wise, but neither is Christian. And aren't we forgetting the Christian who would throw temper-tantrums in the ring, and was pretty much a jobber? He had a nice tag-title run w/ Jericho, but he was kinda in limbo after that. He won the IC Title by cheating, and has jobbed cleanly the last 2 weeks. Other than his mic work & interaction w/ Rock, his IC Title run so far has been pretty unremarkable (which is in turn going to hurt Booker). Edge got to look good teaming w/ Hogan & participating in awesome matches on SD, while Christian was treading water on Raw.

I think Edge will end up the bigger star of the 2, if only because the WWE wants it to be that way. They're really high on Edge, not so w/ Christian.

(FYI, I like Christian more than Edge.)
tasslex
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#5 Posted on 5.6.03 0846.16
Reposted on: 5.6.10 0849.00
I always thought all four guys would be very successful, and I still do. Hopefully Jeff will defeat his personal demons and be back in WWE fairly soon, because as sloppy as he got he was still more entertaining than a lot of guys on the roster.
Tenken347
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#6 Posted on 5.6.03 0855.18
Reposted on: 5.6.10 0856.14
Here are my thoughts on Edge and Christian. I think both are equally competent in the ring, although neither is particularly awesome. On the mic, both are great, but in my opinion Edge is just a little bit better than Christian. What really separates the two, however, is that Edge really has a lot more stage presence than Christian. He's just got that "big-time feel" that you need to make it to the top. So I see a big, and possibly very good, world title run in the future for Edge. Christian may work a main-event program at some point in his career, but I don't think he'll ever hold the strap.
vsp
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#7 Posted on 5.6.03 0858.26
Reposted on: 5.6.10 0859.02
Christian's current push strikes me as more of a throw-it-at-the-wall-and-see-if-it-sticks tactic than something long planned. You know, one of those "We ought to do _something_ with this guy" deals. He's been booked as a second-banana forever (long-term with Edge, then the goofy DDP-tantrum period, then with Jericho), and someone seems to have finally said "Well, he's been consistently funny with what we've given him to do so far; let's give him a push and see where it leads."

See also: Goldust.

Not that I'm complaining that either Goldust or Christian are rising to the top of the midcard, mind you -- but they're not going beyond that.

As has been noted by others, Edge (when he's healthy) will rise as far as the McMahons want him to rise.

Matt Hardy was panned by many back in the day for one simple reason -- he was horribly bland on the mic. He's improved on that. The reason people focused on Jeff (crazy highspots) didn't improve.
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#8 Posted on 5.6.03 0916.59
Reposted on: 5.6.10 0923.05
I think Edge will be the better long-term bet. If they give him the `Triple H' push he got after his surgery (not that I'm saying they WILL, but if they do) he could very well be their next big star... Christian is talented, no doubt, and he's always been the funnier of the two. The act he has going now where he tries to get the crowd on his side and fails miserably is hilarious! But there's no doubt in my mind that Edge has the star look, ability, charisma, etc. to have a run at the top eventually.
As for Matt Hardy -- yeah, that was a surprise. Jeff was -- and probably still is -- the better bump-taker, but for whatever reasons, Matt is far more dedicated to the business and it shows in his consistency and the way he plays his gimmick.
Wpob
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#9 Posted on 5.6.03 1038.29
Reposted on: 5.6.10 1052.19
I agree about Edge having better long term potential than Christian. He is bigger than Christian and is a crowd favorite. However, I would not be surprised if Christian has the better career. I can see Christian being a mainstay in the WWE a lot longer than Edge. I think Christian is funnier than Edge and is better on the mic, not that Edge is bad. Also, Christian takes the better bump and Edge has even said in his column that he will not do the crazy bumps when he gets back.

Christian will always do well as a heel and as a tag team partner. I can also see Christian getting over (for a short time) as a face, even though he is better as a heel. I do not think Edge could do the heel schtick and be believable.

As for Matt, I am still stunned over his success. It just goes to show what hard work and desire can go a long way into turning a solid wrestler into a great wrestler. Good for him.

As for Jeff, sad to say I do not think we will ever see him in a WWE ring again. I think his best days are behind him and once you lose that desire, it is tough to get it back.
fuelinjected
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#10 Posted on 5.6.03 1118.09
Reposted on: 5.6.10 1118.50
Edge just comes across as more of a superstar then Christian to me. Christian just screams career midcarder with the way he wrestles and carries himself. There's nothing wrong with that at all because he'll have a long, great career and can be very valuable. He reminds me of an Arn Anderson, in that he's a really good supporting character.

Edge stepped up his in-ring game enough where he could have amazing matches with good to great wrestlers and decent matches with bad ones. He's got his faults but so do most wrestlers and guys that end up Main Eventing. They need to let him get his natural personality across more because if you've seen him interviewed or read his columns, he's got personality.

Matt Hardy should really get a push as a heavyweight because he continues to work hard to improve in the ring and on the microphone. You can tell he wants it so bad. Give him a real shot not the goofy "I'm not a Cruiserweight" thing and I'm positive he'll make it work because he's got that passion in him.

Jeff seemed to love the idea of being a wrestler but rarely did anything to improve in the ring or on the microphone. I give him credit for realizing his heart wasn't in it and wanting to get out.

Big Bad
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#11 Posted on 5.6.03 1315.00
Reposted on: 5.6.10 1315.04
I think I heard a quote about the Hardys once......Matt loved being a pro wrestler, whereas Jeff loved the idea of being a pro wrestler. Quite the difference.
Galidor
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#12 Posted on 5.6.03 1347.24
Reposted on: 5.6.10 1348.12
Funny thing, i picked Matt, and Christian.

Both are more well rounded, and less reliant on flashiness than Jeff or Edge.

Matt and christian are true superstars.
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#13 Posted on 5.6.03 1402.40
Reposted on: 5.6.10 1411.15
I think it is way too early to say for sure what will happen. They all are good performers. Even Matt has grown on me with the new gimmick and whatnot
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#14 Posted on 5.6.03 1425.34
Reposted on: 5.6.10 1429.03
Not that Matt and Christian aren't doing a good job, but let's not overestimate their successes. Runs with the Cruiserweight and Intercontintental titles don't make them HBK just yet. I personally think Matt is on the right track, but he still has a looooong way to go, in terms of mic skills. Here's hoping that he makes it. With his work ethic, it wouldn't surprise me.

Christian is a little different. I think the comparison to Goldust is accurate. He simply doesn't have the look to become a main event guy. Edge does. They're about equal in everything else. Guess who gets the push?
BigVitoMark
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#15 Posted on 5.6.03 1520.18
Reposted on: 5.6.10 1529.03
On the Hardys...

Over all the years when everyone was swooning over how great Jeff Hardy was going to be, I think I only recall hearing a handful of people say they thought Matt Hardy had more long term upside. Even then, it was always explained as being because they thought the bumps would wipe Jeff out in a couple of years and Matt would beat him out by default. Honestly, until Jeff fell apart, I had Matt pegged as the next Marty Jannetty and don't mind admitting how far off base I was with that.

I think it's terrible how much they dropped the ball on Mattitude's run with the CW title. Imagine this: Matt has his two flunkies, Shannon and Crash. Instead of being job-fodder on Velocity, though, Shannon and Crash act as Jr. Horsemen, protecting Matt's title at any cost against the Mysterio's and Tajiri's and Noble's of the world. This gives you:

a.) a number of interchangeable possibilities in terms of tag team matches to work into programs, providing entertaining ringwork to satisfy the marks

b.) elevation of the CW title as it would be portrayed as something of value not only to the challenger but also to the champion

c.) a storyline everyone (marks and smarts alike) with faces chasing the vulnerable heel champion

d.) the elevation of whoever finally does unseat the vulnerable heel champion

e.) elevation of Matt Hardy once he is defeated as a result of being featured in a main angle as a champion for an extended period

f.) elevation by association of Shannon and Crash

Then again, I'm thinking way too hard about an angle that doesn't involve either a McMahon or 300+ pound guys, so let me just conclude by asking if I'm the only person who remembers 15 years ago when Marty Jannetty was supposed to be the breakout star of The Rockers and move on...

On Edge & Christian...

Quite simply, Christian is a comedic sidekick and not a whole lot more. I'm a big fan, but he just doesn't have either the look or the personality that makes me a top stand-alone guy. Aside from that, he's been so inconsistently booked since E&C broke up that I think it would be real hard for the majority of fans to take him seriously any higher up the card than he already is. And while that's the writers doing more than it is Christian's own fault, that's still the way it is.

Before Edge was hurt he was cast almost as an equal with Brock, Benoit, and Angle on Smackdown and people believed it. He's got more of the presence (as someone else has already noted), even though his promos are pretty by-the-books and clichéd most of the time. And besides, unlike Christian, Edge was brought in with the pretext that he was going to be a star, and we know that the WWE doesn't like to be wrong about those things.
OMEGA
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#16 Posted on 5.6.03 1545.38
Reposted on: 5.6.10 1548.45
I always thought the breakout stars would be Matt and Edge. Well, it seems I was right about both. YAY!

I really think Christian deserves to be at the top more than Edge. Don't get me wrong. I love Edge. But I don't see anything that makes him stand out. Christian has that natural charisma, that I don't think Edge will ever get. But, Christain is small, so I fear that the little push he's getting now might be the biggest one he'll receive in his WWE career.

Edge will probably be the next main eventer (when he comes back), because Vince LOVES Edge. But I think that he'll fall into the Shawn Michaels category, where the female fans love him, and the male fans couldn't care less about him.

As for Matt: I think Matt will always be a midcarder. Should he be a main eventer? Damn straight he should. But he won't, because Vince has pegged him as a mid carder, and won't let him rise above that. It's sad, as I thought Matt could have turned into a real superstar, last fall. But, Vince seems determined to not let that happen.

I guess pushing Albert was more important. *sigh*
Pool-Boy
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#17 Posted on 5.6.03 1606.18
Reposted on: 5.6.10 1610.13
I definitly like Matt a lot more now than I did before the Hardyz break-up... but, as much as I like Christian.. I don't think he OR Edge are much good without each other. Edge bores the hell out of me on his own, and Christian, while entertaining, I am completely unable to take seriously as a potential serious contender.

Together on the other hand... probably among the best tag teams ever. If not THE best. I could legitimatly believe those two beating anyone. I just don't think either one of them are well suited for the single's game.
ScreamingHeadGuy
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#18 Posted on 5.6.03 1709.39
Reposted on: 5.6.10 1712.40
Christian, ever since the break-up, has been a heel. Mattitude has been a heel, now, for for over half a year. Edge has been a face since his break-up. Jeff had flip-flopped for a while.

The reason for that little rundown is this: it's easier to be a heel than a face. It isn't too tough to make people dislike you - heck, people can dislike you for little things you do. But getting lots of people to like you is tough (which is why Edge may not seem that successful).

I'd say wait another year (or wait 'til all their careers are over to be sure) before we call who has the greater success.
Net Hack Slasher
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#19 Posted on 7.6.03 0502.44
Reposted on: 7.6.10 0502.44
Nice and interesting topic. Those 4 names certainly are certainly are interesting in reflecting how their careers changed in 3 years. It amazing sometimes how much things perception of people do change, from certain announcers to certain women to main event guys over a span of a few years... This is really one of the great things about wrestling, I love it when someone totally overachieves and surprises me and you think "Wow I didn't know they had the in them", with that also the downside of some that look like "can't miss" potential and we are still looking at our watches and thinking "When is he/she going to reach it". On to the topic.

Jeff Hardy: I'm a Jeff fan still, but yeah I admit totally it was some major wasted potential here. He had that certain something that connected with fans, no matter what. But his character was never able to grow, don't know how much of it was Jeff unable to do or his wanting to do it or his hardcore fans not allowing it. But he became very stagnant. You can just tell his heart wasn't into it as much, he became sloppy and uncaring at times...This is no excuse but I could see why this happened, his popularity was huge and his major pushes were kept giving the Go/Stop treatment, and I think he kind of threw his hands up and say "Why bother", and I really don't think he's the only one on the roster. He's certainly the more dramatic case. One plus side on Jeff that you can't take away from him is that he sold merchandise like few men can, main eventers would give anything to sell the crap he sold with his image.

Matt Hardy: Many people change for the better over time, gradually becoming more comfortable with their character and confidence with themselves. This was NOT the case with Matt, nothing gradual about his case. It happened overnight, he was his normal lame self and then jumps to SD and he's a new man... Matt was lame as lame can be, without a doubt in my mind he was the 5th wheel of Team Xtreme. Jeff had a unique charisma daredevil. Lita was this funky chick that gets attention. Matt was the other guy, boring dark hair and his personality consist of saying "auhhh" and hitting a second rope leg drop. The brand split did wonders for Matt, he needed truly to get on his own, away from his brother and yes away from his girlfriend and be his unique persona.

I don't think it's as simple as heels being easier to do, he did go heel in Team Xtreme attempted breakup a while back and he was horrible in it. He didn't change that much, he still talks kind of funny, still does those finger signals but it just fits her current character so well. I thought it was clever how some viewed him as riding the coattails of his brother and girlfriend and now he's the leader of his little group of MFers... He could have done so much more with the CW title if given more focus, I think he could have done for the title what Jericho did for it half a decade ago. But WWE didn't really allow him to become a major part of the show with this title run. Whatever the case, Matt's certainly in better position now then he was a year ago. But it will be interesting when or if Lita reunites with her boyfriend.

Edge:Don't understand where some are seeing Edge as a failure. Early this year he was "right there" for the big push, it was either him or Brock. They decided to go with Brock, but if the rookie stumbled, I think they'd go with Edge strong then. He has had good matches with great wrestler, but Edge was in there as well & kept up with them to have memorable matches for him & them, so I don't see how that takes away from Edge's role in main eventing. The unfortunate thing is that a few years ago WWE had pride in who they put in their mainevent and they had good to great wrestlers which Edge shouldn't need not worry to carry a bag of bricks but nowadays it's different but it shouldn't... As been said, Edge has a great distinct look. The Look that he goes into a room of non-wrestling fans and people turn their head, he has star written all over him. If he shaved his head, he'll look psycho-scary heel.

Christian: I really don't see him measuring up to Edge. He can be a solid player, at best a nice upper-midcarder, great tag wrestler who can flirt with the main event scene (maybe). But he just doesn't have the make up for a main guy, I just can't see the guy being a top 4 superstar even with a brand split. He's a fun character and a good wrestler and I like him but I never looked at him as a marquee guy... Even this week I enjoyed his interaction with The Rock, when Jericho came out to confront The Rock then I thought "Okay here we go, couple of main guys now going at it".
Notorious F.A.B.
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#20 Posted on 7.6.03 1458.12
Reposted on: 7.6.10 1459.02
I mostly agree with Net Hack Slasher.

I can see Christian being a top heel in five years' time though. Bulk him up, give him more of an edge and he can instigate the crowd cheering for his bloody murder.
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