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23.11.07 0008
The 7 - Current Events & Politics - IL Bans Ephedra
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spf
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#1 Posted on 26.5.03 1230.46
Reposted on: 26.5.10 1232.04
In a move that really annoys me, IL Gov. Rod Blagojevich has signed a bill to ban the sale of ephedra-based products in the state of Illinois. (story.news.yahoo.com)

The part of the story that gets me is "The drive for a ban in Illinois began last September with the death of 16-year-old Sean Riggins of Lincoln, whose father said he was taking the supplement to help make the first-string football team.... Riggins' parents, Debbie and Kevin Riggins, are working with Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Illinois, in seeking a nationwide ban from the Food and Drug Administration."

The fact that the parents knew the motivation of why the kid was taking it leads me to believe that they knew he WAS taking it. So rather than look in the mirror and say "gee we sure did a craptastic parenting job by letting our kid take a dangerous supplement to try and make his high school first-string" instead they go on a crusade to dictate what 300 million Americans can put in their body. And the fact that my former employer Sen. Durbin is going to support this makes me really annoyed and want to call his office with much venom and anger.
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fuelinjected
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#2 Posted on 26.5.03 1341.00
Reposted on: 26.5.10 1350.16
I have and will continue to use ephedra based products because I'm a responsible adult.

I don't think the sale of said products should be banned because we don't ban Tylenol if a kid takes too many? We don't ban Nyquil if someone drinks too much?

The only possible movement I would support is nto letting anyone under the age of 18 purchase Ephedra based products. But to outright ban them is just plain ignorance on the part of the state of Illinois.
-proletarian-
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#3 Posted on 26.5.03 1454.23
Reposted on: 26.5.10 1459.02
"The fact that the parents knew the motivation of why the kid was taking it leads me to believe that they knew he WAS taking it. So rather than look in the mirror and say "gee we sure did a craptastic parenting job by letting our kid take a dangerous supplement to try and make his high school first-string" instead they go on a crusade to dictate what 300 million Americans can put in their body."


Exactly. But it's just so much easier for bad parents to play the victim and blame evil corporations who make the stuff, instead of admitting that they fucked up raising their kid. It's the (new) American way. Sadly.
Eddie Famous
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#4 Posted on 26.5.03 1646.14
Reposted on: 26.5.10 1647.25

    Originally posted by -proletarian-
    "The fact that the parents knew the motivation of why the kid was taking it leads me to believe that they knew he WAS taking it. So rather than look in the mirror and say "gee we sure did a craptastic parenting job by letting our kid take a dangerous supplement to try and make his high school first-string" instead they go on a crusade to dictate what 300 million Americans can put in their body."


    Exactly. But it's just so much easier for bad parents to play the victim and blame evil corporations who make the stuff, instead of admitting that they fucked up raising their kid. It's the (new) American way. Sadly.



Or maybe, just MAYBE, the stuff is bad for you and should've been banned in the first place. Sometimes it does happen that way....and just because you're idiotic enough to use it doesn't make it safe.
fuelinjected
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#5 Posted on 26.5.03 1807.42
Reposted on: 26.5.10 1829.01
Pretty much everything over the counter can be "BAD FOR YOU" if it's used incorrectly. Just because the media likes to demonize something, doesn't make it so. I don't think it should be sold to minors because they are less likely to follow directions. But if an adult doesn't follow or disregards directions, its not the fault of the product. If you swallow 10 aspirin's instead of 2 and die, they don't ban aspirin.
Eddie Famous
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#6 Posted on 26.5.03 1845.33
Reposted on: 26.5.10 1848.39

    Originally posted by fuelinjected
    Pretty much everything over the counter can be "BAD FOR YOU" if it's used incorrectly. Just because the media likes to demonize something, doesn't make it so. I don't think it should be sold to minors because they are less likely to follow directions. But if an adult doesn't follow or disregards directions, its not the fault of the product. If you swallow 10 aspirin's instead of 2 and die, they don't ban aspirin.


This is a hilarious arguement. "You know, I could very easily break this plastic spoon, fall on it just so, and, there you go, severed jugular!" "I don't see the media hyping up the danger of plastic spoons!"

You can go ahead and hype yourself up with that crap: just don't do it in Illinois. For once, our state got one right.
fuelinjected
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#7 Posted on 26.5.03 1951.55
Reposted on: 26.5.10 1959.02
I'm not seeing any argument from you other then, "It's bad." Says you? Because Corey Stringer and Steve Belcher were idiots?
Eddie Famous
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#8 Posted on 26.5.03 2015.53
Reposted on: 26.5.10 2018.43

    Originally posted by fuelinjected
    I'm not seeing any argument from you other then, "It's bad." Says you? Because Corey Stringer and Steve Belcher were idiots?


Not my argument at all. My argument is that it possibly IS bad, and that just because YOU use it doesn't mean it's good. It obviously wouldn't matter if I had a sheaf of medical information with everything that's wrong with the product...you as a user will turn up your nose...it's the classic non-argument argument...it hasn't happened to ME therefore it must be OK. Maybe you are wrong this time. Maybe those people died because the stuff is bad for you...IT WON'T MATTER! SO, keep it up. I hope for your sake you are right. In Illinois, we evidently are going to try not to take any more chances with idiot parents or idiot adults who don't know any better. Good luck!
fuelinjected
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#9 Posted on 26.5.03 2030.48
Reposted on: 26.5.10 2041.41
"I hope for your sake you are right. In Illinois, we evidently are going to try not to take any more chances with idiot parents or idiot adults who don't know any better. Good luck!"

Before I decide to take any supplements or medications, I research about them. Why is the state's responsibility all of a sudden to guard against people that don't read directions?

Ephedra based diet products ARE banned here in Canada mainly because of the way it was marketed. That being said, you can still buy Ephedrine because it is a cold medicine.

It's not for everyone and is potentially dangerous but to outright ban it sets a scary precedent.
RYDER FAKIN
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#10 Posted on 26.5.03 2158.09
Reposted on: 26.5.10 2159.01
Damn, I need a cigarette...

FLEA
spf
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#11 Posted on 26.5.03 2250.39
Reposted on: 26.5.10 2251.15
Eddie, I agree with the idea that it's bad for you. Yet IL does still allow the sale of guns, cigarettes, alcohol, and numerous other herbal supplements which could be dangerous. To me the issue isn't whether this is bad for me. The issue is should Rod Blagojevich be the one hovering over my life saying "this is too bad for you to use" or not. I'd rather let the idiots take their chances I guess.


    Originally posted by Eddie Famous

      Originally posted by fuelinjected
      I'm not seeing any argument from you other then, "It's bad." Says you? Because Corey Stringer and Steve Belcher were idiots?


    Not my argument at all. My argument is that it possibly IS bad, and that just because YOU use it doesn't mean it's good. It obviously wouldn't matter if I had a sheaf of medical information with everything that's wrong with the product...you as a user will turn up your nose...it's the classic non-argument argument...it hasn't happened to ME therefore it must be OK. Maybe you are wrong this time. Maybe those people died because the stuff is bad for you...IT WON'T MATTER! SO, keep it up. I hope for your sake you are right. In Illinois, we evidently are going to try not to take any more chances with idiot parents or idiot adults who don't know any better. Good luck!

Eddie Famous
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#12 Posted on 26.5.03 2307.53
Reposted on: 26.5.10 2308.49

    Originally posted by spf2119
    Eddie, I agree with the idea that it's bad for you. Yet IL does still allow the sale of guns, cigarettes, alcohol, and numerous other herbal supplements which could be dangerous.


Sorry, but I don't buy this either...."These bad things are legal so this other bad thing should be legal."


    Originally posted by spf2119
    To me the issue isn't whether this is bad for me. The issue is should Rod Blagojevich be the one hovering over my life saying "this is too bad for you to use" or not. I'd rather let the idiots take their chances I guess


What if the idiot in question is a high school football coach putting pressure on a kid to "amp up" his game, with his idiot parents helping along....happens more than you'd think. I'd like there to be some charges to file against them.

spf
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#13 Posted on 26.5.03 2336.24
Reposted on: 26.5.10 2340.31
To respond to Eddie's points:

1. The question though is what is the logic then in banning this substance. No one has yet presented to me a compelling case for what makes Ephedra that much more damaging than anything else which society allows people to purchase. I can understand, if not always agree, with the logic that there are some things so devoid of merit that no one in the society should be able to buy them. I just want someone to tell me why Ephedra is worse than the things we have chosen to accept.

2. There are better ways around this than a blanket ban. The IHSA could put rules in place against Ephedra usage. The NCAA could put rules in against it. IL could say no one under 18 can be trusted to make a properly informed decision about the usage of this substance and thus cannot be permitted to take it. Through any of these means the coach in question could be punished if the will to prosecute is there. If the will to prosecute is not there then this law they passed will be no more helpful than anything else they could put on the books. This is going after a fly with a shotgun by imposing a blanket ban on the entire state's population.
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#14 Posted on 26.5.03 2336.53
Reposted on: 26.5.10 2342.38

    Originally posted by Eddie Famous

    >What if the idiot in question is a high school football coach putting pressure on a kid to "amp up" his game, with his idiot parents helping along....happens more than you'd think. I'd like there to be some charges to file against them.




I'm surprised there hasn't been more amateur wrestling ephedra related things. Some of these guys are constantly cutting and cutting weight, and not taking in ANY food whatsoever.
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#15 Posted on 27.5.03 0743.43
Reposted on: 27.5.10 0745.02

    Originally posted by spf2119
    The NCAA could put rules in against it.


I could be wrong...but isn't ephedra already prohibited by the NCAA, NHL, NBA, and Major League Baseball?
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#16 Posted on 27.5.03 1500.20
Reposted on: 27.5.10 1501.29
Not the MLB, only in the minors. And I'm not sure about the NBA. It is banned in the NFL and the NCAA for sure. In the NFL it is an automatic four game suspension if you're caught with it.
MoeGates
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#17 Posted on 29.5.03 2139.05
Reposted on: 29.5.10 2141.15
I'm surprised there hasn't been more amateur wrestling ephedra related things. Some of these guys are constantly cutting and cutting weight, and not taking in ANY food whatsoever.

That's the one sport I'll never allow my kids to do, and as far as I'm concerned, I think they should outlaw High School Wrestling altogether. Any sport that involves teenagers not eating has something seriously wrong with it.
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#18 Posted on 30.5.03 0511.46
Reposted on: 30.5.10 0511.47

    Originally posted by MoeGates
    I'm surprised there hasn't been more amateur wrestling ephedra related things. Some of these guys are constantly cutting and cutting weight, and not taking in ANY food whatsoever.

    That's the one sport I'll never allow my kids to do, and as far as I'm concerned, I think they should outlaw High School Wrestling altogether. Any sport that involves teenagers not eating has something seriously wrong with it.



i wrestled, and those who choose to not eat to cut weight did so of their own choice. Coach always recommened jogging a few miles, or sweating it out in full sweat suit in a steamy showery bathroom, or in general just exercising more and cutting back the fat.

our recommended diet was boiled chicken and steamed greens...if spiced a little, and no sauses, it was good enough to keep our weights down, but give us the protein we needed...

there wasn't a 220 weight when i wrestled, but i was 218 and put into the heavyweight class and had to wrestle dudes upto the 275 lb weight limit, and coach actually recommended that i actually bulk up, to stand a fighting chance...

i didn't and went 2-2 (plus 7 wins by forfit due to lack of other heavyweights in the county)

after 1 freshman JV season, i hung up my tights and got a night job sophmore year...
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