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27.11.07 1948
The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Pee-Cee hits UMASS
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Grimis
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#1 Posted on 12.5.03 0802.16
Reposted on: 12.5.10 0802.40
Just a minute! UMass mascot proposal irks some
By TRUDY TYNAN, ASSOCIATED PRESS

AMHERST, Mass. (AP) - In a shot at tradition heard 'round the state, the University of Massachusetts is considering mustering out its Minuteman mascot in favor of a gray wolf.
The central problem, said Ian McCaw, who took over as athletic director last fall, is the Minuteman hasn't been selling many sweat shirts and hats for the cash-strapped school, which eliminated seven varsity teams last year.
"We've verified with focus groups that people don't buy items with Minutemen on them," McCaw said.

The Minuteman is the depiction of the colonial soldiers who faced the British at Lexington and Concord in the opening battle of the Revolution.

There are also, McCaw said, "gender, firearms and ethnicity issues." And Phoenix Design, the firm hired by the university to spruce up its logos, found "it's difficult to illustrate a Minuteman."

Real Minutemen carried guns, although the student who dresses up in a homespun uniform and a tri-corner hat at home games was disarmed years ago.

Some alumni are up in arms about the proposed change.

"It stinks," protested Ed Struzziero of Wilbraham, a 1950 graduate whose class raised $100,000 and presented the school with a statue of a Minuteman last fall.

More than 900 of the 1,100 men and women in Struzziero's class were World War II veterans, and he said many felt the Minuteman was an appropriate symbol for the state university in the place where the American Revolution began. "Times change, but some things shouldn't be touched," he said.

Besides, Struzziero said, a gray wolf bears a suspicious resemblance to a husky, the mascot of the rival University of Connecticut.

McCaw and Lombardi said they planned to issue their decision on the Minuteman's future by the end of the month, but there were no items bearing a Minuteman logo in the school bookstore Wednesday.

A decade ago, one of Lombardi's predecessors also considered dumping the Minuteman, which has been the school's mascot since it dropped the Redmen in 1972, but retreated in the face of an outpouring of outrage.

However, since the early 1990s when the school's basketball and football teams were nationally ranked, revenues from souvenir sales have dropped from about $400,000 annually to $100,000, McCaw said.

Some women athletes said they wouldn't mind a more gender-neutral moniker. Others, including junior field hockey player Kristen Hopwood, who was a Minuteman in high school, supported the embattled symbol.

"I feel we don't have enough pride in what we are and where we came from," Hopwood said.

"The Minuteman is our most recognizable state symbol. Look at our quarter," said Pete Trovato, a sophomore hockey player from North Attleboro. The design for the state's quarter features a musket-toting Minuteman.

"If you want something fresh, just take the Minuteman and spice it up a bit," Trovato said. "If you have problems with the gun, put a hockey stick in his hand, or a basketball, or a football."
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redsoxnation
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#2 Posted on 12.5.03 0958.39
Reposted on: 12.5.10 0959.01
Here's the real reason why they want to change the nickname/mascot: Merchandise sales. By changing the nickname/mascots, the alumni/fans would then go purchase the new items, thus increasing revenues. Of course, the reason why the revenue has fallen the past few years might have to do with the basketball program going from a top (though corrupt and illegal) basketball program to a lower level program in the Atlantic 10. But, that would allow for logic to be used, and since the Corrupt Midget Billy Bulger is the President of that wonderful institution of education, logic never seems to be applied.
PalpatineW
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#3 Posted on 12.5.03 1648.05
Reposted on: 12.5.10 1649.10
The only thing that should hit UMass is a nuclear explosion.

They actually help up displaying that Minuteman statue for like two years, too, because people complained. It sat in the basement of Memorial Hall until this semester.
The Thrill
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#4 Posted on 13.5.03 0923.48
Reposted on: 13.5.10 0923.49
Can't UMass just follow the lead of the New England Patriots? They changed their logo and look significantly, but it's still a Revolutionary War-era dude in a tricorner hat, fighting for American freedom. And it certainly helped their merchandising revenue. (Of course, that whole Super Bowl post-9/11 thing might've lent a hand, too.)

PC'ers, don't sh*t on a symbol of the American Revolution, mmmkay?
astrobstrd
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#5 Posted on 13.5.03 0945.35
Reposted on: 13.5.10 0948.08
What the fuck? I could MAYBE understand picturing him without the gun (even that would be pretty ridiculous though), but changing him over "gender" and "ethnicity"? It's now a crime just to be a white male? God, as a dem, these ultra-pc assclowns make me feel the same way that republicans must feel whenever Pat Robertson opens his mouth.

To quote the Pixies song UMass: "Oh, kiss my ass."
Grimis
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#6 Posted on 13.5.03 1011.00
Reposted on: 13.5.10 1011.09

    Originally posted by astrobstrd
    God, as a dem, these ultra-pc assclowns make me feel the same way that republicans must feel whenever Pat Robertson opens his mouth.

Fell your pain on that...if they had just come out and say it was all about money without regarding to all of the other crap I wouldn't be offended, though the alums should rightfully be pissed.
MoeGates
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#7 Posted on 13.5.03 1054.17
Reposted on: 13.5.10 1054.59
I like how you take an article that's about how capitalism is detroying a venerated patriotic mascot, and make it about how it's really those P.C. folks.

Really, you guys have been using this P.C. strawman for at least 10 years now. Don't you think it's getting a little old?

Grimis
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#8 Posted on 13.5.03 1101.25
Reposted on: 13.5.10 1104.02
There are also, McCaw said, "gender, firearms and ethnicity issues."

Pretty self-explantory no?
messenoir
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#9 Posted on 13.5.03 1350.26
Reposted on: 13.5.10 1351.20
There were people other then white males involved in the fighting who never get mentioned (besides the making of the American flag. Sort of like the peanut story during Black History Month). Why don't they get mentioned and why is it so wrong to want a more inclusive image?

You are wrong about the PC thing. PC now means blasting anyone who makes a request for more inclusive landmarks and images.
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#10 Posted on 13.5.03 1402.36
Reposted on: 13.5.10 1402.46
The vast majority of minute-men were white. Why is is such a damned evil thing to portray a Minute-man mascot as being white?

And conversely, if someone wants to show a black Minute-man, who the hell cares there, either?

Damn it, it is a mascot. His race is irrelavant. UMASS was not trying to make a statement that only white people fought in the Revolutionary War. But with things as they were, if you were to go back in time and randomly pick a Minute-man, chances are, THE GUY WOULD BE WHITE! So a white mascot would be an accurate representation.

How someone could take this to mean that UMASS, or supporters of the mascot feel that only white men had a hand in the Revolutionary War is beyond me.

Damn, for people who are supposed to believe that all men are equal, and skin color is irrelavant, they sure damn notice what race people are a lot....
Grimis
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#11 Posted on 13.5.03 1448.25
Reposted on: 13.5.10 1459.01

    Originally posted by messenoir
    There were people other then white males involved in the fighting who never get mentioned (besides the making of the American flag. Sort of like the peanut story during Black History Month). Why don't they get mentioned and why is it so wrong to want a more inclusive image?

There were white folks who marched for civil rights in the south. I don't exactly see that portrayal often in memories and pictures. Obvious, the white man is being KEPT DOWN!!!!

See how ridiculous this sounds in reverse?
MoeGates
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#12 Posted on 13.5.03 1452.22
Reposted on: 13.5.10 1459.04
The central problem, said Ian McCaw, who took over as athletic director last fall, is the Minuteman hasn't been selling many sweat shirts and hats for the cash-strapped school

Key words: Central Problem. A little more self-explanitory.

You really should apply for a job with FoxNews though. This kind of spinning is right up their alley.

messenoir
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#13 Posted on 13.5.03 1531.43
Reposted on: 13.5.10 1536.32
I'm not saying I agree with this specific case. But everytime someone calls for more inclusiveness, accusations of evil PC police come from all directions. You make a racist joke which someone objects to, you can just label them PC and everyone joins your side.

There were white folks who marched for civil rights in the south. I don't exactly see that portrayal often in memories and pictures. Obvious, the white man is being KEPT DOWN!!!!


You're right, Grimis, there should be more white faces present when discussing the civil rights movement. And actually, if you look at much of the coverage of the time, white hippies are just as prevalent in the coverage as black people. Pictures of white and black arm in arm grace more then a few photos.

Regardless, inclusiveness isn't only about not being held down (and frankly, I've heard that held down phrase more from people like you making fun of black people then I ever have from black people). Inclusiveness is realizing how many different races and sexes and people have lent their strength to forming this country and including all of them in our national symbols.

For example, the image of the white frontierman bravely blazing a path across this country is quite prevalent. But how about the chinese person laboring to build the railroads? We're certainly fond of bringing up the Oriental when we talk about quik stores or about all those people who don't speak English, but the talk seems to end there.

The vast majority of minute-men were white. Why is is such a damned evil thing to portray a Minute-man mascot as being white?


What about the women? The men could have done nothing without the women (actually, this is true in most cases throughout history).

I'd also like a French person portrayed somewhere helping the minutemen, btw:-) (this last one was a joke, sort of).
calvinh0560
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#14 Posted on 13.5.03 1959.22
Reposted on: 13.5.10 1959.59

    Originally posted by MoeGates
    The central problem, said Ian McCaw, who took over as athletic director last fall, is the Minuteman hasn't been selling many sweat shirts and hats for the cash-strapped school

    Key words: Central Problem. A little more self-explanitory.

    You really should apply for a job with FoxNews though. This kind of spinning is right up their alley.




Or I could make up stories and get a job at the New York Times :)
Grimis
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#15 Posted on 14.5.03 0610.24
Reposted on: 14.5.10 0617.57

    Originally posted by messenoir
    Inclusiveness is realizing how many different races and sexes and people have lent their strength to forming this country and including all of them in our national symbols.

But at what price? How many schools have been renamed because they wee named after "evil white slaveholders"? How much history has been burned over because it was the white man did it? This goes back to the discussion we had a while back about the Black History Museum ; when are we going to stop pigeonholing everybody by race and when are we going to stop bowing at the alter of diversity for diversity's sake?

messenoir
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#16 Posted on 14.5.03 1557.54
Reposted on: 14.5.10 1557.59
When people stop telling me the Revolution was won by white, male "Americans" (another one of them Frenchie digs, yep). When people stop showing me those brave, white settlers and ignoring those brave, Chinese railroad workers.

When schools stop teaching that Columbus discovered America and the first brave few had to defend themselves against the evil Injuns. When the Indians are remembered neither as horrible, redskins or perfect, all-knowing spirtual leaders and as regular people who shaped this country just as much as anyone and are now suffering horribly.

When people start showing the integral role women have had in shaping this country. About how women were the people in the early 1900s who fought for better labor laws and who fought to get the factories cleaned up (ever read the Jungle?)

When people stop telling racist jokes and excusing it with "Well, I can't be racist, I have a black friend" or "Well, I'm not racist, but here's a funny joke." When that stops being accepted by everyone afraid of seeming, god forbid, PC.

The simple fact is, this country was built on many races, creeds, sexes and cultures. This country is made up of many different belief systems, cultures and creeds. There's a middle ground between pretending all the people in America are the same and only looking at the differences. The middle ground is studying how all these different groups have worked to shape this nation in their own ways and in similar ways.

The simple fact is the white, male Christian does enjoy certain privileges in this country. He adorns most of our monuments and most of our offices. These needs to change.



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#17 Posted on 14.5.03 1613.42
Reposted on: 14.5.10 1618.24
You have some good points, however my question is, why must we tear down everything good that white men DID accomplish, in order to set things right?

I am a white man. Yup! And I cannot display any pride in my heritage, lest I be labeled a racist. I cannot suggest that a child needs both a mother AND a father to have a healthy upbrining, else I am a sexist. I am a member of the only "race" in this nation where it is actually legal NOT to give me a job or a scholarship based on the color of my skin. As a straight white man, I have the MOST stringent group of "social rules" to follow out of any demographic, lest I be branded evil.

I don't pretend that I have it nearly as bad as slaves from 150 years ago, but it is racism, and it gets worse every single day that the PC movement gets more powerful.

I have no problem with equality between the races and sexes. In fact, you will not find a stronger proponant. I stand behind Dr. King's philosophy 100%- that all men are equal. So why is it necessary to tear DOWN the achievements and history of white men to achieve this?

The Minutemen were a PART of the American Revolution. Umass, having them as their mascot, is in NO WAY saying that they were the only ones responsible for or freedom. Regardless of whether or not they were primarily comprised of white men, they are still an important part of this nations history. Their image SHOULD be remembered fondly, and a school SHOULD be proud to have them as a mascot.

But as the PC crowd teaches, it is wrong to be proud of anywhing "white." And that is utter bullshit, and I am sick of it.

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#18 Posted on 14.5.03 1843.18
Reposted on: 14.5.10 1846.37

    Originally posted by Pool-Boy
    I am a white man. Yup! And I cannot display any pride in my heritage, lest I be labeled a racist. I cannot suggest that a child needs both a mother AND a father to have a healthy upbrining, else I am a sexist. I am a member of the only "race" in this nation where it is actually legal NOT to give me a job or a scholarship based on the color of my skin. As a straight white man, I have the MOST stringent group of "social rules" to follow out of any demographic, lest I be branded evil.


And yet despite all of these "social rules" that the white males must obide by, they still manage to hold most of the power and money in this country (if not the world, in which white males are a MINORITY). And I am still trying to figure out exactly what is white heritage, becuase I haven't a clue what that's supposed to mean....


    Originally posted by Pool-Boy

    I have no problem with equality between the races and sexes. In fact, you will not find a stronger proponant. I stand behind Dr. King's philosophy 100%- that all men are equal. So why is it necessary to tear DOWN the achievements and history of white men to achieve this?



The instutions that allowed this country to be successful were built at the expense of other minority groups. Look at the systemic racism that was rapant in the 50's and 60's - its not like this has all simply gone away because Jim Crow laws were lifted, or the civil right's movement made some gains... this was only half a lifetime ago. Are things better? Sure. Is there still institutionalized racism within our society? Absolutely. Because you are trying to undo 300+ years of ideology - and that ain't gonna happen in 40 years...


    Originally posted by Pool-Boy
    Regardless of whether or not they were primarily comprised of white men, they are still an important part of this nations history. Their image SHOULD be remembered fondly, and a school SHOULD be proud to have them as a mascot.

    But as the PC crowd teaches, it is wrong to be proud of anywhing "white." And that is utter bullshit, and I am sick of it.



I have yet to understand why my fellow white people get so defensive when minority groups want to be acknowledged. I have no sense of "white heritage" or "white pride" even mean. And what I am sick and tired of is rich white males complaining about how bad they have it - that's utter bullshit.


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#19 Posted on 14.5.03 2113.45
Reposted on: 14.5.10 2129.01
I have no trouble at all with "minorities" who want to be aknowleged. My problem stems from demonizing or ignoring everything that whites did to get that point across.

This Minuteman thing is a classic example. The fact that people would take issue with the fact that a typical American Revolutionary Minuteman was white amazes me to no end.

Why can't whites ever be credited with anything that is GOOD? I am so sick and tired of "the evil white man."
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#20 Posted on 14.5.03 2119.54
Reposted on: 14.5.10 2129.06

    Originally posted by Pool-Boy
    I have no trouble at all with "minorities" who want to be aknowleged. My problem stems from demonizing or ignoring everything that whites did to get that point across.

    This Minuteman thing is a classic example. The fact that people would take issue with the fact that a typical American Revolutionary Minuteman was white amazes me to no end.

    Why can't whites ever be credited with anything that is GOOD? I am so sick and tired of "the evil white man."

1. I'm tired of white men complaining about "the evil white man."

2. I REALLY think you're reaching when you ONLY talk about the "white" part of this story, and it doesn't make you or your arguments look that great. (Same thing for Grimis and the "PC" part) Please! This is about M-E-R-C-H-A-N-D-I-S-E.

3. They should bring back the Redmen! YEAH!
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