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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - Rob Van Dam complaints
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IsaacYankem
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#1 Posted on 24.4.03 0858.44
Reposted on: 24.4.10 0859.01
I've always really liked RVD, from waay back in ECW when he was teamed with Sabu, and I'm glad that while he's not really setting the WWE on fire, he is at least pretty over with the fans. I often come across some pretty unfavorable commentary on the man, however and I'm not sure it's really justified. I will admit that he repeats the same spots a lot and that his moveset could really use an expansion, but what are some other complaints about RVD that you have?
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#2 Posted on 24.4.03 0910.50
Reposted on: 24.4.10 0911.35
My only complaint is that he doesn't sell injuries to one part of the body very well for the duration of a match - but since many of his moves would probably require that his whole body is working well it's really more of a match booking problem than anything else. They should use the fact that he needs to roll around/jump a lot/etc to set up so-and-so working the leg to prevent a 5-star or other such scenarios. This lack of psychology is problematic everywhere though.

I'm sure booking a match that appeals to the OOH LOOK WHATTA MOVE crowd and the OH MY GOD HE'S USING 500 DIFFERENT SUBMISSION HOLDS TO WORK VARIOUS BODY PARTS crowd and the LOOK AT THOSE TITTIES crowd all at the same time is a real challenge though.
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#3 Posted on 24.4.03 0931.41
Reposted on: 24.4.10 0932.34
I don't think hes that bad, its just thath he does have a fair few serious flaws in his make-up.

1. Can't sell for chocolate. The number of times he'll be worked over and then pop up to do the thrilling rolling thunder spot like a jovial spring lamb isnt even funny. Course he sells his own 5* like a king but that doesnt really count.

2. Mic work pretty much sucks. That being said I think he could come off pretty well as a cocky heel as long as they didnt expose him by asking him to do endless promos every week.

3. Still liable to blow the odd spot, though given his more unorthodox move set thats maybe not too surprising.

4. Matches often turn into spot fests meaning we get the same old same old every week. Putting him in tag matches was IMO one way of partly combating that.

5. His offense just doesnt look too believable. The rolling thunder? Puh-lease. Some of it just doesnt look in the slightest bit painful.

6. Character is now getting stale. Not necassarily his fault but theres really only so long you can play the laid back stoner before people stop caring. Again a heel turn, or even just the revealing of another side to his character could help here.

Bottom line I think he's a good upper-mid carder but right now thats as far as it goes. He has potential but pushing him now before some of those flaws are addressed would only expose him and could damage him in the long run.
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#4 Posted on 24.4.03 0955.41
Reposted on: 24.4.10 0958.55
My biggest problem is that he doesn't seem to take anything seriously. I know that's his character, but I just don't think it works. It played great in ECW, where Rob was a cocky heel and didn't care about anything because he kept winning and didn't think anyone would come close to him. But as an underdog face, it doesn't play. I forget who said it on this board, but he treated his world title match with HHH like he was facing fucking Nova in a dark match on Heat. Being that laid back only works when you're on top.
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#5 Posted on 24.4.03 1111.48
Reposted on: 24.4.10 1115.20

    Originally posted by Tenken347
    My biggest problem is that he doesn't seem to take anything seriously. I know that's his character, but I just don't think it works.


I don't think it's just his character. He did a radio interview not very long ago where he didn't even know who the general manager of Raw was...
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#6 Posted on 24.4.03 1234.07
Reposted on: 24.4.10 1234.09
I think the main problem with RVD is his awful mic work. He hasn't had a good promo in a while. I do like most of his matches, though.

He does need to turn heel.

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#7 Posted on 24.4.03 1306.01
Reposted on: 24.4.10 1314.00
1) He doesn't sell well.
1.5) He makes certian moves (german suplex, half nelson suplex, DDT), look like death.

2) He's a spot fest.
2.5) The crowd pops for spots they know and like.

3) None of his moves look like they'd hurt.
3.5) A martial arts background gives Van Dam a wide assortment of unique kicks that look cool and look painful.

4) He can't talk on the mic.
4.5) Give the man lines that fit his character, he'll do them well.

5) His character is awful.
5.5) His character is set, people know what it is (Go with the flow, oblivous to what others think of him, arrogent enough to annoy others but NOT enough to make people hate him).




Seems to me like he breaks out even.
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#8 Posted on 24.4.03 1316.50
Reposted on: 24.4.10 1322.26
As the number one RVD hata here, I had to chime in.

RVD needs to work on his basic moves. His kicks, punches and forearms look very fake and weak and don't do anything to get him over. Compare the way the Rock throws a punch or kick and you'll see what I mean. Also, a lot of his flippy stuff doesn't look believable either. That spot he does with the back kick off the second turnbuckle looks awful.

RVD doesn't sell for others very well. A few moves he'll sell, like Morley's DDT, but often, like other have said, he'll sell for a second, then pop up like he wasn't hurt at all. He's not the Undertaker!

RVD seems only interested in getting in his own moves, like the Rolling Thunder. This might be the management saying for him to get in the good crowd-popping moves, but he gets stale really quick.

I dislike his overselling of the 5-Star too. I have a hard time buying the move hurt him when everything else thrown at him doesn't hurt at all. And Eddy's froggy splash never hurt him, so why does RVDs?
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#9 Posted on 24.4.03 1332.44
Reposted on: 24.4.10 1333.28
He connects with the audience and that's probably the most important part of wrestling. If you can connect with the fans, they're willing to overlook your short comings.

Rob Van Dam's strongest point is that he's unique. WWE tries to make everyone look the same, wrestle the same and act the same. When RVD first entered WWE, he was over right away because he was unique. Since then they've tried to force him into working WWE style and cutting WWE style promos and vignettes, which has hampered his ability to be unique.

It's too late now for Van Dam, they missed the chance to make him into a draw. If he was going to get a serious push as a top guy, he would have gotten it by now so hopefully he's happy doing what he's doing.
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#10 Posted on 24.4.03 1401.20
Reposted on: 24.4.10 1401.22
How about we not complain and say we did
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#11 Posted on 24.4.03 1404.22
Reposted on: 24.4.10 1408.33

    Originally posted by StampedeFan23
    As the number one RVD hata here, I had to chime in.

    RVD needs to work on his basic moves. His kicks, punches and forearms look very fake and weak and don't do anything to get him over. Compare the way the Rock throws a punch or kick and you'll see what I mean. Also, a lot of his flippy stuff doesn't look believable either. That spot he does with the back kick off the second turnbuckle looks awful.

    RVD doesn't sell for others very well. A few moves he'll sell, like Morley's DDT, but often, like other have said, he'll sell for a second, then pop up like he wasn't hurt at all. He's not the Undertaker!

    RVD seems only interested in getting in his own moves, like the Rolling Thunder. This might be the management saying for him to get in the good crowd-popping moves, but he gets stale really quick.

    I dislike his overselling of the 5-Star too. I have a hard time buying the move hurt him when everything else thrown at him doesn't hurt at all. And Eddy's froggy splash never hurt him, so why does RVDs?



Isn't this just nitpicking, though? I mean, yeah, these are RVD's faults, but I don't see how this gets in the way of WWE making money. He has an exciting enough offense to hide the weaknesses that he may have in selling and all of that crap. Either way, it's just ringwork. There's other facets that make a star in wrestling.

Going into the ringwork, while RVD's fancy flippy kicks and jumping leg stretch things are unrealistic, I don't the fans don't come to see wrestling shows for realism. If they did, Hogan wouldn't have ever been popular. That's just my opinion on what the fans want, though.

Granted, he did almost kill HHH at Survivor Series and I do see why they cooled off RVD's push. The fact of the matter is that you don't want someone working reckless and putting everyone else in danger. However, training and discipline is the solution to that problem and, hopefully, RVD has since learned how to control his offense better and now knows when to hold back. I'm hoping they're ready to give him another chance like they did with Goldberg.

RVD is arguably one of WWE's most popular stars, even though he's saddled in the worthless tag division, and people buy into his character. What more does WWE want? RVD could probably even be more versatile if they had creative writers.

Maybe the easy-going, free will of RVD is the defining hero for the next decade. It's really hard to tell.
OMEGA
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#12 Posted on 24.4.03 1459.25
Reposted on: 24.4.10 1500.46

    Originally posted by StampedeFan23
    As the number one RVD hata here, I had to chime in.

    RVD needs to work on his basic moves. His kicks, punches and forearms look very fake and weak and don't do anything to get him over. Compare the way the Rock throws a punch or kick and you'll see what I mean. Also, a lot of his flippy stuff doesn't look believable either. That spot he does with the back kick off the second turnbuckle looks awful.

    RVD doesn't sell for others very well. A few moves he'll sell, like Morley's DDT, but often, like other have said, he'll sell for a second, then pop up like he wasn't hurt at all. He's not the Undertaker!

    RVD seems only interested in getting in his own moves, like the Rolling Thunder. This might be the management saying for him to get in the good crowd-popping moves, but he gets stale really quick.

    I dislike his overselling of the 5-Star too. I have a hard time buying the move hurt him when everything else thrown at him doesn't hurt at all. And Eddy's froggy splash never hurt him, so why does RVDs?



The thing is, is that RVD had these SAME flaws back in 2001, and he was the third most over guy in the company (right behind Rock and Austin). And though he still has these flaws, he's still WAY over. Sure, not as over as he once was, but getting pushed to the top, only to be dropped right back down to the bottom will make the fans get less behind anyone, i.e. Booker T.

Sure his punches look week, but he solves that by mostly relying on kicks. And if RVD's kicks are weak and fake-looking, then we must be talking about different Rob Van Dam's, because the one I watch every Monday night has some pretty damn good looking kicks.

"He's not the Undertaker!"
So, it's okay for Undertaker to no-sell? Personally, I think RVD, even though he doesn't sell well, is a MUCH better seller than Undertaker is. And I'd much rather have an excuse of "RVD is so resilient. His flexability allows him to take so much punishment and keep coming back", than I would have them take the Undertaker route by saying "RVD was killed in a horrible accident years ago. But that wouldn't keep him down, as Van Dam dies on his terms! So he now roams the hallways of WWE. And because of his half-death, HE DOESN'T FEEL ANY PAIN!!!"

As far as his moveset goes, it's over with the crowd. If Triple H putting someone in the sleeper hold elicited a pop from the crowd, maybe people wouldn't complain about it so much. Maybe RVD's cartwheel-into-a-standing-moonsault doesn't look realistic, but, from what I see, the fans still seem to like it.

And RVD sells his frogsplash because of the amount of height and impact he gets on it, so it'd probably hurt once he hits the mat. I'm sure if he hit the frog-splash, and then popped right up, you'd be complaining that "RVD doesn't sell any moves. Not even his own!"

Overall, however, the fans like RVD. And that's all that matters. I don't think any of the fans in the audience are saying to themselves "That RVD's pretty cool, but his moveset is too fakey, his selling is horrible, and he can't cut a good promo. Oh, and he hasn't paid his dues either. I sure hope Triple H beats the shit out of him!" The people have voiced their opinions and they want Rob Van Dam. Nit-picking his flaws is the exact same mistake WWE has done with Booker T, Chris Jericho, and several others. It's the thing that keeps the new generation from getting their chance to shine. So there.
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#13 Posted on 24.4.03 1607.20
Reposted on: 24.4.10 1608.25
Ok, so:

--RVD doesn't sell..well...then sometimes he sells really well, but he doesn't sell THAT for very long--

I won't disagree with the assertion that he doesn't sell, or that he sells really well. He has his moments. I think everybody in the WWE could work on this, even some of the guys who are pretty good at it.

--RVD has a fakey looking moveset--

Yup. He does. But most fans are willing to look past that if the at least some of the fakey moves are impressive or if the guy's character is strong enough. Some of RVD's moves ARE impressive, so he's fairly safe in this reguard.

--RVD is unique--

That's not enough. Is he unique? Yes. Is that what made him over? Yes. Is that enough to put him in the main event? No way.

Wrestling angles tell stories, and its the job of the main event guys to tell the biggest stories in the company. It's not just matches. If it were, I think RVD and Benoit would be multiple time World Champions at this point. It's about the build to the match, too. RVD got a shot to prove himself against HHH. I don't care if he was going to lose that first match, he had a shot to take his push and make something of it and leave a lasting impression on WWE fans. What he did was make a cute joke (the highlight of his performance in the feud, by the way) and wrestle the same match at the PPV that he would have wrestling Stevie Richards at a house show. THAT is what is wrong with RVD.

I have no problem with his style of wrestling, nor do I have a problem with his "everything is cool" character, but he has never endevoured to "bring up his game" as it were. He's the very definition of the guys HHH was talking about who just sit around backstage and wait to get pushed. You may say that the WWE missed their opportunity to push RVD, but I'd say RVD missed his opportunity to make himself a star. There's no denying he's over, but that doesn't make him a main eventer.

Fans may like him, but that is not enough. He needs to learn how to get fans to care about him, his situation, and his opponent. If he's going to treat a PPV main event like shit, then I think you've got your answer as to whether or not he can. He's got to learn that a few whitty "2 kewl 4 skewl" comments and ok matches aren't enough to be the top guy. A guy near the top? Sure. THE top? No way.
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#14 Posted on 24.4.03 1621.35
Reposted on: 24.4.10 1622.14
Alls I can say is, when I took a first look at RVD's work, back around 2000, 2001 or so(and was a little more markish), I was practically blown away. I'm pretty sure tons of other fans who were seeing him for the first time were feeling the same way, hence his practically overnight momentum. Hence the fact that the fans continue to pop major for him to this day. For all his faults(lack of selling, poor mic work, funny looking move set) and all his 'hatas', he's been definitely doing something right, and something many other performers whom possess his particular flaws haven't quite caught on to. The guy is OVER and always will be.
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#15 Posted on 24.4.03 1828.06
Reposted on: 24.4.10 1829.01
You should take into account that according to the wrestlers (Austin in particular), guys aren't allowed to do their own promos anymore. Everything is scripted for them. So if Rob Van Dam was given shitty material for his big promo against Triple H, isn't the blame a bit misplaced? When he was allowed to be himself in ECW, he was delivering quality promos all the time.

And there were two people in that match at Unforgiven, one of whom had two good matches in 2002, both with Shawn Michaels. If they wanted Rob Van Dam to be a Main Eventer, they would have laid out a match that highlighted Van Dam's strengths.

I don't know if he could carry the ball as "the man" but he sure deserved a better shot to run with it. If he doesn't work out, then you write it off but to not take a chance with a guy that over was just a bad business move by WWE. But hey, who needs try to establish Rob Van Dam as a Main Eventer when you've got Kevin Nash to go to.
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#16 Posted on 24.4.03 1837.40
Reposted on: 24.4.10 1841.54
I'm a big RVD fan, and while I can see his flaws, I don't think they're crippling to him as a main-eventer.

His mic work isn't stellar, true, but he's leaps and bounds better than a lot of people in the upper card (Brock, HBK and Benoit come to mind- they're awful on the mic), and just as good as many (Triple H is just rambling and boring, Undertaker is just as one-dimensional as RVD).

Some of his moves are unrealistic, but come on, it's pro wrestling, for crying out loud. Internet darling Chris Benoit's flying headbutt is just as ridiculous as the Rolling Thunder, but I've never heard anyone complain about it.

His selling is on-and-off, true, but I could write that off to his super-yoga flexibility. The Rock, another internet darling, sells everything like it fuckin' KILLED him or not at all. And RVD takes great bumps, whether he pops right back up or not.
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#17 Posted on 24.4.03 2133.34
Reposted on: 24.4.10 2136.15
Can bump, but not always sell.

Vast majority of his 'good' matches are versus proven carriers or guys that are even spottier than he is.
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#18 Posted on 24.4.03 2213.20
Reposted on: 24.4.10 2218.43
I have no compliants for Rob. I loved his work in ECW and enjoy now. I do think the WWE has done everything in their power to make into their type of wrestler. They bust out the Vandamnatoir less, I don't think that's spelled right. He is more kick and punch or elbow in his case their martial arts bad ass. They just cut him down to fit their style which to be honest is bland. I think his busting up on Angel and some other guys was the reason for it, yet I still say getting injuried is a fifty game.

He doesn't sell well, but when he does its sick. His character's attitude has been the same for awhile, but when he is the ring, the fans see he cares and will go the mile to get it done. Rob has the unique ability that Stone and Rock have which is to get the crowd into it. The more time you give Rob, the better the results. He is a spot fest and God love him for it, because no one else on the card is anymore.

The WWE has waisted RVD. There is really no question about it. He was ready to carry the ball in the Fall and I am sure the matches he would have put on would have sold out a ton of arenas. RVD/Booker T, RVD/Jericho, RVD/HBK and RVD/Rock.

A Fan- Yet, another victuim to fate.
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#19 Posted on 24.4.03 2253.23
Reposted on: 24.4.10 2258.09
I'll give RVD his due. He does connect with the crowd, and it's a shame that the bookers don't pay more attention to that. He could be a huge star, but I feel he doesn't have all the equipment to get there.

On the plus side, I did enjoy his match with Chris Benoit when I saw WWE live last August. He is entertaining. I just can't like him though...
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#20 Posted on 25.4.03 0433.27
Reposted on: 25.4.10 0441.05
I'll give RVD his due, he's improved tremendously since his ECW days, back when "Points To Self" wasn't just a nickname, it was part of his moveset akin to any other wrestler throwing a punch. I literally had several people screaming "Stop pointing at yourself and DO something, jackass!" when they performed here once, because he spent six or seven minutes out of a ten minute match doing just that. I haven't been that irritated at a wrestling match since Giant Gonzales wrestled Macho Man and had him in a chokehold for five straight minutes...

Unfortunately, he seems to have leveled out at the "upper-midcard" performance stage. Personally? I think he's right where he should be, flirting now and then with the big names and performing in tag matches that cover up the weak spots in his repetoire.
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