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The 7 - Current Events & Politics - That wacky Patriot Act.. Register and log in to post!
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IsaacYankem
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#1 Posted on 9.4.03 1159.30
Reposted on: 9.4.10 1159.32
This is from "The Oregonian"

a palpable chill ran down my spine when I read about the Gestapo-style arrest of U.S. citizen Maher "Mike" Hawash. Two weeks ago, police took the 38-year-old Intel software contractor from his Hillsboro home and put him in solitary confinement (according to his wife) in a federal prison. No charges have been filed against him, and his attorneys reportedly are forbidden to discuss the case. What is happening to our country?

I already had heard on National Public Radio a New Jersey attorney's account of having been appointed as counsel for Jose Padilla, the U.S. citizen arrested in Chicago nearly a year ago for supposedly planning to concoct a "dirty bomb" -- radioactive materials packed around a conventional explosive. After only one or two brief meetings, she was abruptly denied access to her client, who was transferred to a brig somewhere in South Carolina, where he remains in solitary confinement to this day, unindicted for any crime and unable to see or speak with his lawyer. Can this really be happening in the United States?

A few weeks ago a professor in the University of Idaho School of Law reported that FBI agents staged a predawn raid -- in full SWAT team regalia -- on the apartment of a Saudi doctoral candidate in computer science, dragging him away from his terrified wife and children and astonished neighbors.

The Washington Post has reported that around the country "at least 44 people" were being held, like Mike Hawash, under the same distorted and unprecedented interpretation of the "material witness" law, designed for grand jury participants. This is clearly an outright suspension of habeas corpus, the 700-year-old cornerstone of individual civil rights in Western jurisprudence, which protects us from arbitrary arrest and imprisonment.
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redsoxnation
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#2 Posted on 9.4.03 1211.28
Reposted on: 9.4.10 1212.06
    Originally posted by IsaacYankem
    This is clearly an outright suspension of habeas corpus, the 700-year-old cornerstone of individual civil rights in Western jurisprudence, which protects us from arbitrary arrest and imprisonment.







Remember, Lincoln used to suspend Habeas Corpus left and right during the War of Northern Aggression.




edit: If you can't break out the old Granny Clampett name for the Civil War here, where can you?

(edited by redsoxnation on 9.4.03 1312)
Jaguar
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#3 Posted on 9.4.03 1226.20
Reposted on: 9.4.10 1226.38
Well, uh, it was wrong then and it's wrong now?

Yeah, that about sums it up.

-Jag

Oh and I know people who still call it that. Most of them because they think it's funny, but a few who really believe it. Of course, I know a man who's convinced that not only is the south chafing under the rule of the Yankee's but that America never lost the Vietnam War.

Edit/ By 'call it that' I'm talking about the War of Northern Agression. Just thought I should clarify.

(edited by Jaguar on 9.4.03 1327)
AWArulz
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#4 Posted on 9.4.03 1226.27
Reposted on: 9.4.10 1227.16

    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    War of Northern Aggression


We think of that as "The troubles" and as "The Cease-Fire"

Suspension of habeas corpus, in fact or in actuality has been done several times during our history, usually because of armed insurrection, but sometimes because of suspected linkage to an enemy group. We all know Japanese had their write of habeas corpus suspended during the days after Dec 7, 1941. Lincoln suspedned it on March 3, 1861 during the Civil war, as aforementioned. Massachusetts suspended the privilege of the writ from November 1786 to July 1787, on the occasion of Shays' Rebellion. And other states have done so from time to time, including the confederate state of Texas, during said war, regarding rebels (or, as we southerners call 'em, carperbaggers.).
Grimis
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#5 Posted on 9.4.03 1227.00
Reposted on: 9.4.10 1227.26
Uh, as much as I hate most of the Patriot Act, nowehere in your post does it even mention the Act. Of course, only seeing part of the article out of context is part of the problem.
IsaacYankem
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#6 Posted on 9.4.03 1245.30
Reposted on: 9.4.10 1248.07
(deleted by IsaacYankem on 9.4.03 1046)
ThreepMe
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#7 Posted on 9.4.03 1811.56
Reposted on: 9.4.10 1811.59

    Originally posted by AWArulz

      Originally posted by redsoxnation
      War of Northern Aggression


    We think of that as "The troubles" and as "The Cease-Fire"

    Suspension of habeas corpus, in fact or in actuality has been done several times during our history, usually because of armed insurrection, but sometimes because of suspected linkage to an enemy group. We all know Japanese had their write of habeas corpus suspended during the days after Dec 7, 1941. Lincoln suspedned it on March 3, 1861 during the Civil war, as aforementioned. Massachusetts suspended the privilege of the writ from November 1786 to July 1787, on the occasion of Shays' Rebellion. And other states have done so from time to time, including the confederate state of Texas, during said war, regarding rebels (or, as we southerners call 'em, carperbaggers.).



So are you saying that it's ok to do this?

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety" - Benjamin Franklin
ManiacalClown
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#8 Posted on 9.4.03 1819.21
Reposted on: 9.4.10 1819.41
It's ok if Congress decrees the Writ of Habeus Corpus to be suspended, if you go by the Constitution.
ThreepMe
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#9 Posted on 9.4.03 1827.50
Reposted on: 9.4.10 1828.44

    Originally posted by ManiacalClown
    It's ok if Congress decrees the Writ of Habeus Corpus to be suspended, if you go by the Constitution.


Welcome to McCarthy-ism 21st Century style!

Anyone want to caravan to Canada? They still have Habeus Corpus right?
godking
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#10 Posted on 9.4.03 2208.53
Reposted on: 9.4.10 2217.01
It's worth pointing out that the Republican are lobbying to remove the sunset clause on the Patriot Act.
ManiacalClown
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#11 Posted on 9.4.03 2325.23
Reposted on: 9.4.10 2325.33
The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.
--Article I, Section 9

If I had said "at certain times" in my first post as I had originally intended, I would've made a lot more sense. Oh well.

BUT ANYWAY, what that says is that if there is open rebellion or the country is being invaded, Congress (since it's in Article I) has the power to suspend the Writ of Habeas Corpus.

The current times do not meet either of those criteria.
AWArulz
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#12 Posted on 10.4.03 1230.50
Reposted on: 10.4.10 1231.07

    Originally posted by ThreepMe

      Originally posted by AWArulz

        Originally posted by redsoxnation
        War of Northern Aggression


      We think of that as "The troubles" and as "The Cease-Fire"

      Suspension of habeas corpus, in fact or in actuality has been done several times during our history, usually because of armed insurrection, but sometimes because of suspected linkage to an enemy group. We all know Japanese had their write of habeas corpus suspended during the days after Dec 7, 1941. Lincoln suspedned it on March 3, 1861 during the Civil war, as aforementioned. Massachusetts suspended the privilege of the writ from November 1786 to July 1787, on the occasion of Shays' Rebellion. And other states have done so from time to time, including the confederate state of Texas, during said war, regarding rebels (or, as we southerners call 'em, carperbaggers.).



    So are you saying that it's ok to do this?

    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety" - Benjamin Franklin



I wasn't saying that at all. More like laying a historical backgroud. I am sure that there is a time and place for a writ of Habeas Corpus should be suspended. I don't personally believe this is it. I think the previous post quoted the article. You might interpret an "invasion" as many ifiltrators coming into the country and feel justified in suspending the right to a speedy trial while we clean it all up, but I would be against that.

Not that we have particularly speedy trials now...

drjayphd
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#13 Posted on 10.4.03 2007.30
Reposted on: 10.4.10 2008.35



Oh, fucking hell... Do these Republicans (not all, it should be noted) even LIVE in the US? Have they any clue what they're DOING?
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