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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - This just in: Vince is greedy
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Big Bad
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#1 Posted on 12.8.03 1819.29
Reposted on: 12.8.10 1822.40
From the Torch.....

USA Today published a story today on greedy CEOs who take enormous compensation packages despite the performance of their companies sagging and the oblivious boards who allow it to happen. The article said:

"Shares of the pro wrestling marketer tumbled 37% to $9.08. But Chairman Vince McMahon's salary rose 8.5% to $1.1 million, and he received $850,000 for "talent fees" that the company says include personal appearances and developing plot lines for shows."

The story did not add that McMahon is taking a whopping $8,764,833 in stock dividends this coming year, all while wrestlers are being encouraged to share hotel rooms and rental cars and stay at budget hotels and drive smaller cars to cut back on expenses to make ends meet during these tough economic times for WWE business.


The personal appearance fees are particularly offensive, I think. Vince is making enough as it is; his WrestleMania payoff, for example, should've been split up amongst the other main eventers (Angle, Brock, Booker, HHH, Rock, Austin and Hogan).
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Chico Santana
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#2 Posted on 12.8.03 1832.48
Reposted on: 12.8.10 1833.05
Vince isn't paid enough. Look at how he has pushed the XFL to heights the NFL and their little SuperBowl game have never reached. Ok bad joke and low blow, but how can this Assclown justify a raise when his company goes down 37%? And then he takes away spots on PPV's where people with actual wrestling talent could be used. I don't pay to see Vince, hell I would rather watch two fat kids fight for a ice cream bar! Hunter get away from this family now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#3 Posted on 12.8.03 1844.30
Reposted on: 12.8.10 1848.02
Say what you will about Vince, but how many of the other CEOs in the article have flown off the side of a steel cage and through a table?
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#4 Posted on 12.8.03 1924.00
Reposted on: 12.8.10 1926.08
A couple of things I notice missing from that article:

1. No mention of how much of Vince's salary increase was a real raise and how much was an allowance for inflation. I don't have the figures for recent years in front of me, but I think 2-3% is a reasonable estimate for annual inflation. Vince's pay raise would then be, in real terms, around 5%.

2. CEOs of most companies the size of WWE are guaranteed predetermined increases in salary as a percentage of earnings. A 5% pay raise isn't all that out of line for a man in Vince's position.

3. The stock dividend Vince is receiving is a result of him holding so many shares in the company. I don't know the exact number he holds but if he owns 80% of the company (I seem to remember reading that at one time) and at a dividend of $0.02 per share - what was declared for Class A common shareholders earlier this year - then that number sounds about right. And before anyone points out that it the McMahons had a pretty big say in declaring that dividend in the first place, let me also point out that when your stock price is falling you need to do something to tangible to appease your shareholders...like pay a dividend, which has to go to all shareholders as a matter of law.

4. There is no comparison showing what other top talents received as "talent fees". Whether you like the fact that Vince is a prominent character or not, he is exactly that. I don't think you can begrudge him accepting a second salary for it since it is a second job. A lot of people don't like HHH being on top, but he is there and his salary should reflect that position. Same with McMahon. If he earned $850GR in "talent fees" while a Kurt Angle received half that we'd have something to talk about. But with no comparison, I don't think you can evaluate the fairness of that number.

5. The article fails to mention that none of the McMahons received bonuses this year.

This is what happens when people try to report news they don't fully understand. The Torch saw here a piece of news related to Vince McMahon and cast him in a pretty negative light, apparently without understanding what they were talking about. I don't claim to be an expert on contracts or the stock market by any stretch, but right there you've got five sizeable holes in their story off the top of my head. Hopefully the USA Today didn't make the same mistakes.
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#5 Posted on 13.8.03 1344.44
Reposted on: 13.8.10 1346.04
You can pull out all the expert financial testimony in the world that could be found, but the simple fact is getting a pay raise while your business is down is is completely ludicrous. And it's shit like that, that make corporations a joke.

(edited by Chico Santana on 13.8.03 1145)
Reverend J Shaft
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#6 Posted on 13.8.03 1411.10
Reposted on: 13.8.10 1415.33
I agree. Vince receiving any kind of pay raise is hilarious, considering where the WWE is right now.

That said, it's not like the talent and stockholders don't have any recourse. Talent can leave and go to NWA or the indies if they don't like it and Vince's company will suffer. Stockholders can sell back their stock and Vince's stock price will plummet.

The guy owned the company outright until 4 years ago and no one complained (or knew) how much he made then. The only difference now is that he has to categorize his earnings (pay raise, bonus, appearance fee, etc.). Vince is no more of a greedy S.O.B. than any other company owner out there. The only difference is: Everyone around Vince puts up with it.

That's what you'd call capitalism...
BigVitoMark
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#7 Posted on 13.8.03 1414.38
Reposted on: 13.8.10 1421.43
Here's another simple fact: if you don't include such clauses as scheduled pay raises into your contract, you won't be able to attract the best of the best to run your company because they'll look for work elsewhere. Should McMahon be penalized because he's running a company he created rather than one built by others?

This is a fact of life in the business world. The number of people actually qualified to fill CEO-type positions is miniscule as a percentage of the population at large, and if a given company doesn't offer something basic like guaranteed pay raises, they don't get to pick their top people they get who is left over at the end.

The fact that Vince got a raise despite business being down is to be expected. It's part of doing business and does not, as you suggest, make corporations a joke. There are things to consider beyond whether salaries or profits went up or down.

(edited by BigVitoMark on 13.8.03 1215)
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#8 Posted on 13.8.03 1420.18
Reposted on: 13.8.10 1425.42
From all accounts, the man's life is World Wrestling Entertainment 24/7. (and has been for quite some time) He is essentially responsible for EVERYTHING in that company. I'm sure if you broke down that raise to an actual hourly rate, I don't think it would be that outrageous at all.
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#9 Posted on 13.8.03 1543.15
Reposted on: 13.8.10 1543.45
Well taking in only his talent and CEO money, even if he was somehow working 24 hours per day he's making $225 an hour roughly. Add in his dividend intake, and he's pulling down just over $1200/hr. Think about that next time you're watching Stacy "wrestling" against Jackie Gayda ;)
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#10 Posted on 13.8.03 1605.33
Reposted on: 13.8.10 1610.02

    Originally posted by spf2119
    Add in his dividend intake, and he's pulling down just over $1200/hr.


Except that dividends do NOT create extra wealth.
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#11 Posted on 13.8.03 1734.19
Reposted on: 13.8.10 1742.32
I don't think we have enough information to come to a fair conclusion here. Are any WWE workers recieving reasonable raises within that same percentage or are they making about the same, or even taking paycuts?

If everyone around Vince is taking paycuts and he's giving himself a million dollar raise or whatever, then maybe he is being an asshole when the people below him, the ones he wants to "stop playing Nintendo" and "turn the company around" are supposed to do just that. But, if he isn't giving them the money they deserve, he shouldn't expect much output from them either.

Either way, whatever Vince makes goes back into trying to make WWE the best damn wrestling league it can possibly be, so long as Vince makes the money he deserves as top headliner.

(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 13.8.03 1535)
fuelinjected
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#12 Posted on 13.8.03 1744.40
Reposted on: 13.8.10 1746.37
According to Figure 4 Weekly (Alvarez), next year, Jim Ross' base salary will be cut from $318,333 to $165,000 and Kevin Dunn from $497,917 to $260,000. Nearly everyone in the company will be taking these type of cuts except Vince and Linda.
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#13 Posted on 13.8.03 1808.57
Reposted on: 13.8.10 1809.48
Just to play devil's advocate here, JR will have fewer responsibilities next year since he's delegating more and more to Johnny Ace. Dunno about Dunn.
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#14 Posted on 13.8.03 1919.20
Reposted on: 13.8.10 1925.54

    Originally posted by BigVitoMark
    Here's another simple fact: if you don't include such clauses as scheduled pay raises into your contract, you won't be able to attract the best of the best to run your company because they'll look for work elsewhere.


...and, thanks to an incredibly remarkable coincidence, the best of the best that World Wrestling Entertainment has attracted to run its company all seem to have the same last name!

Having said that, allow me to state that, quite frankly, I couldn't care less how much the McMahon family milks from WWE. As pointed out above



    Originally posted by Reverend J Shaft
    It's not like the talent and stockholders don't have any recourse. Talent can leave and go to NWA or the indies if they don't like it and Vince's company will suffer. Stockholders can sell back their stock and Vince's stock price will plummet.


...and, since I am neither talent nor stockholder, Vince's take home pay isn't any skin off my apple, and therefore not anything I care to get too worked up over. Finally, as to what it says about the man, I think Rev Shaft said it best:


    Originally posted by Reverend J Shaft
    Vince is no more of a greedy S.O.B. than any other company owner out there.


My sentiments exactly.
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#15 Posted on 13.8.03 2049.45
Reposted on: 13.8.10 2049.51

    Originally posted by BigVitoMark
    Here's another simple fact: if you don't include such clauses as scheduled pay raises into your contract, you won't be able to attract the best of the best to run your company because they'll look for work elsewhere. Should McMahon be penalized because he's running a company he created rather than one built by others?
That doesnt wash. Name me ONE other publicly traded company that would be interested in having Vince McMahon as their Chairman.
    Originally posted by Mr Shh
    Except that dividends do NOT create extra wealth.
But it DOES create a bundle of cash...which was probably the idea.
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#16 Posted on 13.8.03 2119.25
Reposted on: 13.8.10 2122.52
I have to agree there. A large company that needs a solid leader, someone who can deal with day to day issues just as calmly as major crises, would be MURDERED by their shareholders if they ever named a Vince McMahon type to lead their firm. He's not in demand anywhere else.

And it's Vince's company; if he doesn't get paid what he wants, what's he going to do -- quit?
BigVitoMark
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#17 Posted on 13.8.03 2258.56
Reposted on: 13.8.10 2259.01
Considering Vince McMahon's entire professional experience (as far as we know) has been in the wrestling business, he probably isn't qualified to be the CEO of any other publicly traded company.

Name me one person in the world better suited to be the head of World Wrestling Entertainment than Vince McMahon.
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#18 Posted on 14.8.03 0008.43
Reposted on: 14.8.10 0008.54

    Originally posted by BigVitoMark
    Considering Vince McMahon's entire professional experience (as far as we know) has been in the wrestling business, he probably isn't qualified to be the CEO of any other publicly traded company.

    Name me one person in the world better suited to be the head of World Wrestling Entertainment than Vince McMahon.



I'm going for an easy one here: Shane McMahon

Even if you don't count another McMahon, there's plenty of people out there that could do what Vince does. WCW was doing better than the WWE for a good couple of years there, and if they were a seperate company (away from the umbrella of Ted Turner's money) they would have had to run the ship a lot tighter to keep it afloat, therefore stopping the types of problems that they had due to being left alone with Turner's company paying for their negligent mistakes.

People have been wrestling promoters for decades, Vince has just kept the WWE alive because his successes came at the right time to make up for all his failures. The world won't run out of wrestling promoters just because Vince dies one day.


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#19 Posted on 14.8.03 0453.18
Reposted on: 14.8.10 0454.23
    Originally posted by Tribal Prophet

      Originally posted by BigVitoMark
      Considering Vince McMahon's entire professional experience (as far as we know) has been in the wrestling business, he probably isn't qualified to be the CEO of any other publicly traded company.

      Name me one person in the world better suited to be the head of World Wrestling Entertainment than Vince McMahon.



    I'm going for an easy one here: Shane McMahon




    Tribal Prophet



Based on what? What has Shane, in his life, ever done to make anyone think he's qualified to run anything other than a lemonade stand, or the WWE equivalent of a lemonade stand "new media"? People who ostracize themselves from the higher-ups of a corporation, disappear, clash with the boss on a number of issues, and generally help sow into the company soil the idea that their younger sister is better suited to inherit the reins are not people who are "better suited".

Do you honestly think if Shane was even remotely competent, Vince wouldn't prefer to give him the proverbial cape and crown over Steph? A chick? Vince is a guy who figures women getting down on their knees and barking like dogs is "entertainment". This is a guy who brags about past infidelities and then recreates them on TV in front of his wife. You think he doesn't want a chip off the ol' block, with a dick, to run shit the way he would? Steph has a brain, she knows how to pander to VKM and for that reason she'll reap serious-ass benefits. If Shane were smart he'd do like Vinny, anyway. Kiss his pappy's ass, wait for him to die, and then do whatever he wants.

Vince has reputation going for him, and he has the respect of the roster. No one questions the fact that Vince is the boss-man. Vince can convinced Undertaker to put people over, Vince can lure legends out of hiding for one more big run, Vince can seduce young women who dream of stardom into making the sacrfice of letting him tickle their bullseyes. Shane will have a lot to prove to a lot of people, including his parents, before he gets a sniff of running the show.




(edited by Hogan's My Dad on 14.8.03 0258)

(edited by Hogan's My Dad on 14.8.03 0300)
BigVitoMark
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#20 Posted on 14.8.03 1105.02
Reposted on: 14.8.10 1108.49
Forget about whether Shane is qualified, but if here were interested in being the head guy some day he would already be doing more than running the new media division. McMahons get the jobs they want in that company, and if that's really as high as Shane's aspirations go at this point I don't see him ever wanting to be the #1 guy and having all the responsibilities that come with that. I don't think we'll ever see Shane as more than a storyline owner of a wrestling company.
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