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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - The Torrie monster push!
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DMC
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#1 Posted on 12.7.02 1839.22
Reposted on: 12.7.09 1840.37
Is it me, or has Torrie Wilson been getting a major push as of late? She wins the lingere deal, she beats Stacey the next week, puts on a good match with Molly, is featured on Confidential. Did someone in the back say Torrie needs more exposure, or do you think Torrie got sick (or scared) of being simple girly-girl(as Madusa once called her) eye candy and pushed herself to develop as a performer?

Whatever the case, I think this is good. Smackdown has too many useless "valets" (who don't actually escort anyone to the ring) as it is. Plus, another competitor who can put on decent wrestling AND look as good as Torrie does would be just gold. If she can continue to work on her in-ring stuff AND work on promo ability sometime in the near future, I would be DYING to see a Trish-Torrie team-up: THE FIT DIVAS, or TEAM FITNESS. Marv Albert says it best: "YES!!"

DMC

(edited by DMC on 12.7.02 1640)
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MollyFan2K2
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#2 Posted on 12.7.02 1858.18
Reposted on: 12.7.09 1859.01
I agree. It seems as if Vince just got up one day and said "hey, I have Torrie Wilson under contract, why not give her more exposure." and when the news reached Torrie she said "hell yeah, I want to have a big role and actually wrestle."
She has gone from "oh, that girl who walks down to the ring with Tajiri" to "hey, it's Torrie Wilson". She used to be involved in storylines that were about the men around her (ie: Tajiri and Kidman fighting over her.) to actually being the focus of her storylines (ie: working hard on her own terms to get recognized for her physical and wrestling attributes.)

I have to say that I was not the least bit interested in Torrie's storyline until I saw her match against Molly last night. Damn, Torrie can put on an entertaining match now, props to her. It kind of embarasses everyone involed in Tough Enough that someone who is hyped up all throughout the program to have learned how to wrestle pretty damn good is put to shame by someone dismissed by "smart" fans as eye candy.

If Jackie G., Stacy, Torrie, and Linda get enough experience to be up there with Trish, Molly, Jazz, and the rest, then we will have a pretty exciting division with over ten workers. (I know it seems small, but when was the last time anyone saw the WWE women's division contain over ten great workers?)

Now if only Spice showed up in WWE. Probably won't happen. *sighs*

(edited by MollyFan2K2 on 12.7.02 2000)
tomvejada
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#3 Posted on 12.7.02 1901.30
Reposted on: 12.7.09 1910.12
Torrie is one of the hottest women in the WWE right now. Last night's match with Torrie was shockingly good. I hope she keeps up the good work.
deadbeater
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#4 Posted on 12.7.02 1953.08
Reposted on: 12.7.09 1959.07
I for one am not to shocked by her performance. She progressed very well in WCW, constantly working in a program with Molly there. We just haven't seen it here because she was forced to carry Stacey to ridiculous b+p matches. Stacey needs the Molly touch and not Vince's to get her on track.
Mild Mannered Madman
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#5 Posted on 12.7.02 2026.33
Reposted on: 12.7.09 2028.34
Jazz joining and Fit Finlay handling the women's training appears to have done wonders. The women are the best, quality-wise, that the WWE has had since they used the Japanese women in the late 80's.
VK Wallstreet
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#6 Posted on 12.7.02 2042.18
Reposted on: 12.7.09 2047.38

    Originally posted by DMC
    If she can continue to work on her in-ring stuff AND work on promo ability sometime in the near future, I would be DYING to see a Trish-Torrie team-up: THE FIT DIVAS, or TEAM FITNESS.
The only possible name for this team is Bodydonnas 2000.

Torrie looks very, VERY good -- and I'm usually not so sweet on the "gorgeous" ladies of wrestling -- but why the obsession with seeing her wrestle? Just because she's there? The timekeeper (what's his name?) is there, too, but that doesn't mean he should be stepping into the ring.
MollyFan2K2
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#7 Posted on 12.7.02 2218.11
Reposted on: 12.7.09 2221.34
The timekeeper's job is to time the match, not to wrestle. It's not really a fair comparison. Torrie is there to be involved in storylines and entertain the people. On a wrestling show, this usually involves wrestling. Now I know that there are plenty of characters that do not wrestle, but why not have Torrie wrestle. It is either that, or walk down to the ring with Tajiri or Maven or anyone and do nothing the entire match, or constantly be fondled by Vince McMahon, or not be on tv at all. As long as she has no real direction, would you be so against seeing her wrestle. If she has some skill, which it looks like she does based on her last match, than she can help deepen the women's roster which does need to be deepened too. I guess I just feel this way because I like to watch wrestling and I don't like seeing a whole bunch of T&A angles.
VK Wallstreet
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#8 Posted on 12.7.02 2259.08
Reposted on: 12.7.09 2305.08
Well, I think it's a plenty fair comparison. Torrie's job isn't to wrestle, either. It's to look pretty. Personally, I think it's silly to have people in wrestling with that job, but that's her job nonetheless.

Here's a better example. Take Paul Heyman. His job is to be involved in storylines and entertain the people, too. And I think he does that very well. But nobody wants to see him wrestle, even though he's on a wrestling show. Occasionally, you want to see him get what's coming to him, and there's arguably a time and a place for novelty matches like that Hardy thing. Likewise, there's occasion for Torrie to participate in the occasional mixed tag or bra-and-panties fiasco. But you can't really call what she'd do in either of those situations "wrestling."

I would be against seeing her wrestle because I'm interested in seeing wrestlers wrestle. That's why I watch wrestling. I don't want to see eye candy wrestle. (Well, not on a wrestling show, anyway.) In all fairness, I didn't see that match, so I can't vouch for how much potential she displayed. But there are probably a lot of women out there who can already wrestle and would kill to be signed to a WWE contract. Torrie may already be there, but it'll take work. And that's not what she signed up for, anyway. Look at the also quite attractive Stacy Keibler -- she got into the business by winning a dance contest, for God's sake, and now they're bent on making her a wrestler, too. Geez, as bad as Jackie Gayda and Linda Miles are right now, at least they won a wrestling contest.

Listen, I hate T&A angles, too. But they're going to keep doing them whether the T&A wrestles or not -- it's something I accepted a long time ago. And despite all the praise the women's division has been getting lately, I'm still not a fan of women's wrestling. I will admit it's a lot better than it was a couple years ago, but I'd still rather it not be there at all. I enjoy watching Molly, and that's about it. Ivory is also plenty good, but you don't see much of her.

Here's the thing. If you pick someone at random off the street, what's the chance he'll make a WWE-quality wrestler? One in 1,000? What's the chance she'll be a WWE-quality wrestler? One in 5,000? (I'm an ardent feminist, but the truth is women in general don't have as much aptitude for that stuff as men.) Well, Torrie is essentially someone picked randomly off the street. So you'll excuse me if I'm unconvinced.
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#9 Posted on 12.7.02 2338.13
Reposted on: 12.7.09 2338.30
Except that Torrie has the benefits of being 1) already in pretty damn good shape physically and 2) surrounded by people who actually know what they're talking about and can help her improve. It's the same with Trish. Who honestly thought that she'd end up being a talented female wrestler when she first appeared as the valet for T&A?
MollyFan2K2
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#10 Posted on 12.7.02 2353.55
Reposted on: 12.7.09 2355.30
I still can't see why, if a person has the choice to wrestle or just stand there and they have potential and some skill, they would choose to do nothing. Phantom brings up a good point with Trish. Two years ago, we could have had this same conversation subbing Trish's name in for Torrie. You never know what might happen if you take a chance.
Net Hack Slasher
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#11 Posted on 13.7.02 0422.42
Reposted on: 13.7.09 0424.08
I think that's shortchanging Trish. I'm hearing a lot of if Trish could do it *insert name* could do it... Trish from day one came in and wanted to take a physical role in wrestling even when she didn't have to. She come prepared to make the sacrafice of busting your body with aches and pains. Torrie/Stacy didn't. Torrie actually been in wrestling longer and was more then happy being fluff girl, but WCW saw the popularity of Lita and thought "ohh the fans want the girls to get in there" so the encouraged them to do it.

I see a difference in the two. I mean Trish seemed like having a great head on her shoulders and knows what she'd be willing to put her body through to be a wrestler and wanted to make an impact as an athlete more then anything from day one. While Torrie/STacy is asked and getting basic training. But I think it is fair to question if they have it in them. If they are willing to put there bodies on the line and bruise there arms and go to bed aching and hurting when they got into the business in the first place mostly just to be on Cable TV. Heck we are already having reports of Stacy claiming "burn out" and she's off the House shows this weekend.

As for the match. The match was good. The planned a safe match. Torrie remembered all her spots and didn't mess up. I don't nesessary see her bringing much into the match. The only move that looked like it was risky and need skill timing was the neckbreaker. Torrie selling still seems like amature night. But Torrie did a decent job and didn't screw up, you want to applaud her for that fine... I do get a feeling that some are talking like when Terri slowly did a top rope hurricarna on Molly and some (not here but on other boards) talked about "where is Terri hiding this skill". And the answer was Well Terri did one move that Molly did most of the work. Terri has very little wrestling skill. I felt the same way for Torrie, she did a good job and didn't mess up, Good for her.

I do believe that wrestling skill is becoming a real important aspect to make your character more interesting and more dimensional(therefore more TV time). I mean if Trish didn't have the attitude she had she'd be doing backstage reporting ala Terri. Or be directionless like Torrie was most of her WWE career. Well maybe not Trish does bring some decent charasma to the table but she wouldn't be in the postition she's been in for the 9 months.

BobHollySTILLRules
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#12 Posted on 13.7.02 1020.44
Reposted on: 13.7.09 1021.33
I feel it neccessary to point out that none of us in here know what Torrie Wilson is doing in terms of training. No one in here knows how she feels about stepping into the ring. She showed shades of potential on Smackdown, if she keeps wrestling, she's going to get better, if she doesn't, she won't. To say that she doesn't want to wrestle or she's against it is ignorant because you don't know. Have you asked Torrie how she feels about stepping into the ring. Maybe she didn't wrestle in WCW, so what? 90% of that roster didn't wrestle. We don't know if she was asked to, we don't know what kind of serious training she got. Something tells me if she's asked to do something she's going to do it or she's going to quit or be fired. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen one thing about Torrie complaining, and even if I did, we still wouldn't know how true it was. You can speculate about her potential skill, but you can't speculate about her heart or want to do it because you don't know. I, for one, happen to be a fan of Torrie, but I don't know what runs through her head, the only way to find out is to keep watching, see if she keeps wrestling, see if she keeps getting better, then we'll know the answers to these questions, until then all you guys are doing is ripping the character of someone you don't know. As for the comparisons to Stacy, they are two different people, you know that right?
m2k_2002
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#13 Posted on 13.7.02 1103.54
Reposted on: 13.7.09 1107.41
I would be nice to see Torrie Wilson as an actual wrestler aside from a diva. Torrie would make a nice womens champion with some wrestling ability.
DMC
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#14 Posted on 13.7.02 1120.27
Reposted on: 13.7.09 1121.18
BobHollyRules is right, we can't get inside the girl's head and know if she *really* wants to be taking on more of a wrestling role or not. Maybe she does, maybe she doens't. To me personally, her body language seems to say "I really don't want to be doing this, but I'll do the best job I can right now to save my skin." I guess we'll just find out in the coming weeks and months what shes been doing and if it has been forced on her or not.

As far as calling Torrie Wilson someone "off the street," I do think that is a bit unfair. Again she does have the fitness model background. Yes, fitness *model*, but that at least means she's in some kind of shape to be athletic, and just as important it means she knows a little bit about "acting", or at least posing and showing off for a camera. That has to count for something beyond being your average person on the corner.

DMC
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#15 Posted on 13.7.02 1145.14
Reposted on: 13.7.09 1150.58
I think that it is sad to think that the WWE writers, and even most of the people on this board, only really see two options for a female persona in the WWE. Either the female is a wrestler, or else she is just fluff and T&A.

It is possible to give a woman a strong role without her being a wrestler, it just doesn't seem to happen very often. The prime example of this is Stephanie with angles like the one during Invasion. Without discussing Stephanie's faults, or the faults of the Invasion angle, at least she was portrayed as a woman in control who didn't have to prove herself by competing in the ring.

There is nothing wrong with Torrie wanting to train to become a better wrestler, and I hope she succeeds. What I do think is wrong, is the notion that if she doesn't succeed, all that is left for her is to go back to hanging off Maven's arm.

It annoys me even more to watch Stacy's angle. The WWE had the chance to make Stacy into a powerful woman who uses her looks and her brains to achieve her goals, maybe even using Vince to become the hidden power behind the WWE. Instead you have her using her looks to become Vince's plaything, obviously the pinnacle of every woman's hopes and dreams.

At one point she was portrayed as both physically attractive and also ambitious. You could have had her get the job as Vince's "personal assistant" and then proceed to quietly and gradually influence his decision making. Instead, now her only purpose is to be with Vince when Jericho and Angle enter his office and interrupt him, and her only feud is with a woman who wants to take her place as Vince's plaything. Disappointing, if you ask me.

WyldeWolf1
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#16 Posted on 13.7.02 1504.18
Reposted on: 13.7.09 1505.40
"It is possible to give a woman a strong role without her being a wrestler, it just doesn't seem to happen very often."

I agree wholeheartedly. In fact, I think that is the BEST role for women in the fed. Why?

1) I think the women should be more than just eye-candy (though Torrie is VERY good at that). If they're on my TV they should matter to storylines.

2) As good as Trish and Molly may be, they're not as good as other individuals who could be on my telivision (think Justin Credible, Raven, Dreamer, etc.). I applaud their improvement and dedication to their work, but it follows the same priniciple as the WNBA: they're good, but not up to the standard I'm used to seeing, and in my own humble opinion, that greatly detracts from their entertainment value. Imagine the time devoted to a women's match being used to lengthen a Chris Benoit match...see my point? You can trade a short women's match for more time to build psychology, credibility, etc to another match.
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#17 Posted on 13.7.02 1748.03
Reposted on: 13.7.09 1752.16
I enjoy watching the women's matches. In fact, I would rather watch a good women's match than a match that includes Dreamer, Raven, Justin Credible, etc. I would definitely rather watch, say a Trish-Molly-Jazz Triple Threat for the title than an extra five minutes of a Benoit match. I think that women's wrestling is important to the product because it offers something different. Like say would you rather go to a store that just sells hamburgers, or one that sells hamburgers, salads, pizza, and chicken. Variety is good, no matter what buisness you are in. But that is just my opinion. Heck, the women were one of the only things that kept me watching Raw a month ago. Well, them and Book-Dust.
deadbeater
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#18 Posted on 13.7.02 1749.17
Reposted on: 13.7.09 1759.01
I've seen Justin Credible work, and...no, I don't want to see him more often, if at all. He's like Raven without the skills, wit or charm.

I know that some people (myself included) in the IWC want to see a show dedicated to Benoit's working through five 20-minute matches in one card. However, due to his impaired condition, it's not going to happen anymore. Sigh.

Maybe Stacey is biding her time to do her great betrayal angle we all are waiting for. The only thing that should be on Vince's groin is her knee.

Torrie will have to work a bit harder to do a credible title win over Molly. So do all the other women not named Jazz.
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#19 Posted on 13.7.02 2117.16
Reposted on: 13.7.09 2122.52

    Originally posted by deadbeater
    Torrie will have to work a bit harder to do a credible title win over Molly. So do all the other women not named Jazz.


I don't think too many people would complain if she lost to Trish or Ivory.

Especially since she WILL lose it to Trish sooner or later.
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#20 Posted on 15.7.02 0003.54
Reposted on: 15.7.09 0004.06
Unfortunately I still think some (and the numbers thankfully are dropping) think of Trish still as the best of the fluff girls. Which I think was a compliment 9 months ago, but now I totally think she should be considered an equal and not as an upset win (I really think the night Trish got Dq'ed after going nuts on Jazz and not letting go of a move really made her an equal). Molly is probably a better wrestler then Trish, I don't think it necessary means Trish isn't credible in beating her. Just like Benoit might be better inring then Jericho but Jericho is credible enough to beat Benoit.

Let me backpaddle a little on Torrie (but not taking anything back, yet) If Torrie does become a good wrestler, I'll take it all back. As a diva wrestling fan I'm rooting for her, the division can't have enough hotties that could go in there and put on a great match... Saying that I still go with my original statement, I think men and women that happen to come into the industry by chance or encouraged by someone else usually doesn't have the desire and the love to really make an impact or overachieve our expectations (ie Goldberg). Of course there are some exceptions like Kurt Angle who's just a wrestling freak and picked it up on day one without even liking it. Trish from day one said "I want to be a wrestler". Torrie came in by knowing people by chance and was pretty happy being on TV in any capacity. For that reason I kinda give Trish more of the benefit of the doubt then Torrie. Is Torrie training to be a wrestler to save her skin or did she's really become impressed and motivated seeing other girls wrestle, if it's second reason she might have a chance. Like I said I hope she proves me wrong, and makes it.

As for Benoit or any other male with main event dreams, if WWE see's him as a main eventer and feel like he is worth the time to get over, I am sure they will find the time in a 2 hour show with a split roster. Molly/ Trish/ Jazz and others diva's aren't HHHoging up a third of a show by being on for 40 minutes. I'm sure in a 2 hour show, 7 minutes from 10:15 to 10:22 and maybe if they are lucky get a 2 minute backstage skit is not going to break someone's main event push and if it does there is something seriously wrong with the writers or the wrestler himself.

The group of men that seemed to be more effected by a diva division push is guys like Stasiak, Bradshaw, Mark Henry or Albert. And look if you rather see the guys, there is nothing I could say to change your mind. For me if a real good diva match = an average male match (and saying that I still think that's short changing the girls. I really think a great match put on by divas is just as good as an above average men's match in my eyes) saying that I'd rather have the real good women match. I personally care about most of the girls more then most of the mid-carders, and seeing the crowd reaction when the women are booked right they seem to be into a lot more then most mid/lower-card men matches.

Eww hope my last sentence makes sense. Well I guess I'm saying a great mens match the women can't compete. But an average mens match or even a just above average mens match (which I find a lot of mid-card matches are lucky if they are average especially with the men I listed in the previous paragraph) and the women match hit right on (which they have done many times) the women is much more enjoyable.



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