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The 7 - Random - Roy Jones to give up heavyweight title Register and log in to post!
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JayJayDean
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#1 Posted on 12.9.03 1455.49
Reposted on: 12.9.10 1455.57
Jones to take on Tarver at light heavyweight

I wouldn't want to be Antonio Tarver on November 8.

(edited by JayJayDean on 12.9.03 1257)
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#2 Posted on 12.9.03 1500.08
Reposted on: 12.9.10 1500.41
This absolutely sucks. Oh joy, Roy's going to kill some other 175 pounder and show what we've known forever, that no one can beat Roy at Light Heavyweight. Antonio Tarver will get destroyed as everyone does at that weight against Jones. And then he can go back to beating on tomato cans instead of moving to unify the heavyweight title and cement a legacy as one of the greatest boxers of all time. Now he just goes back to being "the really good boxer who never fights anyone worth fighting." Way to go Roy....excuse me while we all forget about you again.
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#3 Posted on 12.9.03 1530.40
Reposted on: 12.9.10 1532.09
What a dumbass. How moronic is that?
JayJayDean
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#4 Posted on 12.9.03 1622.03
Reposted on: 12.9.10 1624.02
I think you guys are being way to harsh on Roy.

1. The fight against Tarver is Nov. 8. Not too far away. Plenty of time to go back to heavyweight or fight James Toney or whatever after that.

2. Tarver called ROY out. He *does* have two legit 175-lb. belts, so he's a step up from the guys Roy had been fighting before he fought Ruiz.

This will be basically the #1 vs. the #2 175-lb. fighters facing each other. It's not Roy's fault that Tarver is no Mosley or Forrest by comparison.
NickBockwinkelFan
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#5 Posted on 12.9.03 1706.34
Reposted on: 12.9.10 1710.32
Roy Jones is a tremendous fighter, possibly the best in the world right now, but he beat a complete joke of a paper champion in John Ruiz. He cannot unify the title without knocking out Lennox Lewis, who may not be exciting, but he has destroyed his oppenents and viciously avenged his only losses. Lennox may have a suspect chin, but Roy would have to stand on a stack of phone books to reach it. Plus, I don't think Jones has knocked anyone out since he went up from 168. The best fights for Roy are down in weight class with the great technicians at about 168, not running around the ring throwing jabs at heavyweights.
JayJayDean
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#6 Posted on 12.9.03 1803.07
Reposted on: 12.9.10 1804.22
Hasn't knocked anyone out since he left 168, huh? Let's see...(thanks to about.com for this list.)
   
1996
Nov. 22 -- Mike McCallum, Tampa, Florida, W 12
(Won interim WBC light heavyweight title)

1997
Mar. 21 -- Montell Griffin, Atlantic City, New Jersey, L DQ 9
(Lost WBC light heavyweight title)
Aug. 21 -- Montell Griffin, Ledyard, Connecticut, KO 1
(Regained WBC light heavyweight title)

1998
Apr. 25 -- Virgil Hill, Biloxi,Mississippi, KO 4
July 18 -- Lou Del Valle, New York, W 12
(Unified WBC and WBA light heavyweight titles)
Nov. 14 -- Otis Grant, Mashantucket, Connecticut, TKO 10
(Retained WBC and WBA light heavyweight titles)

1999
Jan. 9 -- Rick Frazier, Pensacola, Florida, KO 2
(Retained WBC and WBA light heavyweight titles)
June 5 -- Reggie Johnson, Biloxi, Mississippi, W 12
(Unifies WBA-WBC-IBF light heavyweight titles)

2000
Jan. 15 -- David Telesco, New York City, W 12
(Retained unified light heavyweight title)
May 13 -- Richard Hall, Indianapolis, Indiana, TKO 11
(Retained unified light heavyweight title)
Sept. 9 -- Eric Harding, New Orleans, Louisiana, TKO 10
(Retained unified light heavyweight title)

2001
Feb. 24 -- Derrick Harmon, Tampa, Florida, TKO 10
(Retained unified light heavyweight title)
July 28 -- Julio Gonzalez, Los Angeles, California, W 12
(Retained unified light heavyweight title)

2002
Feb. 2 -- Glenn Kelly, Miami, Florida, TKO 7
(Retained unified light heavyweight title)
Sept. 7 -- Clinton Woods, Portland, Oregon, TKO 6
(Retained unified light heavyweight title)

2003
March 1 -- John Ruiz, Las Vegas, Nevada, W 12
(Captured WBA heavyweight title)

That would be 15-1 (with the obviously BS DQ loss to Griffin avenged with a first-round KO), with 9 KOs, including the Ruiz fight.

Again, it's not Roy's fault no one has the guts to come fight him. All these guys you haven't heard of were good enough to be ranked #1 by someone and be a mandatory defense for Roy. Going into the Ruiz fight there were doubts Roy would win, and after he won easily they were immediately forgotten and Ruiz was (with the benefit of hindsight) labeled a mediocre fighter.

Hopkins could fight Roy but won't, Calzaghe could come to the USA and fight Roy but won't, Darius Michaleszeski (sp?) could come to the USA and fight Roy but won't. Guys stay at 168 rather than move up to 175 and become a mandatory for Roy. Anyone who could possibly Roy's foil isn't good enough to make a fight close with him, so Roy gets a rep for fighting "easy" fights, even though plenty of the guys he fought at 175 had zero losses or were undefeated before fighting Roy.
Big Bad
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#7 Posted on 12.9.03 1902.40
Reposted on: 12.9.10 1904.17
I thought in the case of Darius M, it was equally a case of Roy not wanting to go abroad to fight (fearing a repeat of the biased judging that cost him a gold medal).
NickBockwinkelFan
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#8 Posted on 13.9.03 0638.57
Reposted on: 13.9.10 0641.53
I should have specifically said "knocked out anyone reputable". There's no denying that Roy is one of the premier talents in boxing, if not the best, but amassing a series of 10th,11th and 12th round TKO's against a list of guys you couldn't pick out at the line at the unemployment office doesn't really get me that excited.

Roy's problem is that he feels he's the only attraction in boxing. After Hopkins unified the middleweight title beating Trinidad, Hopkins wanted Roy. But if you remember, Roy wouldn't play for less that 75% of the gate, as if he was the only reason anybody would watch. Roy's more interested in cockfighting than boxing these days anyhow.

Hopkins, De La Hoya, Joppy, Vargas and Mosley are all infinitely better opponents for Roy, but Roy seems to like being the only game in town at light heavy or at phantom heavy.

That list of oppenents since 1996 is an embarrassment, who's ducking who?
JayJayDean
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#9 Posted on 13.9.03 0944.56
Reposted on: 13.9.10 0946.08
    Originally posted by NickBockwinkelFan
    I should have specifically said "knocked out anyone reputable". There's no denying that Roy is one of the premier talents in boxing, if not the best, but amassing a series of 10th,11th and 12th round TKO's against a list of guys you couldn't pick out at the line at the unemployment office doesn't really get me that excited.


You have to admit they were late TKOs only because Roy was being mericful with guys he knew he could really hurt. But Montell Griffin was KOed in 1, and Virgil Hill, who would go on after the Jones fight to become cruiserweight champ, got KOed in 4 by a body shot. Richard Hall just lost a tough decision to Darius overseas, so he's proven to be not some "nobody" and Eric Harding just fought Antonio Tarver for the title. Glenn Kelly and Clinton Woods were both undefeated at the time Roy fought them and were deemed MANDATORY #1 challengers for the title. Again, that's not Roy's fault.

    Originally posted by NickBockwinkelFan
    After Hopkins unified the middleweight title beating Trinidad, Hopkins wanted Roy. But if you remember, Roy wouldn't play for less that 75% of the gate, as if he was the only reason anybody would watch.


Actually, it was a 60-40 split, and seeing as how (1) Roy ALREADY BEAT HOPKINS and therefore had nothing to gain by beating him again and (2) when you look at De La Hoya-Mosley, who I think are actually splitting their purse 75-25, in spite of the fact that Mosley is the one who WON the first fight, that seems fair enough to me.

    Originally posted by NickBockwinkelFan
    Hopkins, De La Hoya, Joppy, Vargas and Mosley are all infinitely better opponents for Roy, but Roy seems to like being the only game in town at light heavy or at phantom heavy.


That's just stupid. De La Hoya, Vargas, and Mosley all fight at 154. Roy is fighting at 175. Why not suggest he fight Floyd Maywether? Or Marco Antonio Barrera? And why would Roy fight Joppy, who got easily KOed by Trinidad? The guy is fighting the LEGITIMATE WORLD CHAMPION at 175 on November 8. Tarver is 22-1 with 17 KOs and was on the US Olympic team.

    Originally posted by NickBockwinkelFan
    That list of oppenents since 1996 is an embarrassment, who's ducking who?


I'll say it again, they were all mandatory challengers. While I agree the list is not impressive, I say that it is a combination of the sanctioning bodies having to find guys for him to fight and of guys looking to steer clear of the division so they wouldn't have to fight Roy. James Toney was the 168-lb. champ. Do I think it's a coincidence that he skipped the light-heavyweight division and went straight to cruiserweight and that Roy was light-heavyweight champ? No. Do I think it's a coincidence that Bernard Hopkins stays at 160 and makes a lot of noise about fighting Roy when he could've move up in weight (as Roy did) to 175 and EASILY been named Roy's mandatory challenger? No. So Roy went out and fought a guy who fights at 50 lbs. heavier that his typical fighting weight and beat him easily, giving up his 175-lb. belts to do so. Now he's fighting the guy who has two of the belts and that's not good enough?
NickBockwinkelFan
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#10 Posted on 15.9.03 1619.04
Reposted on: 15.9.10 1619.04
JayJay, it's obvious from your posts that you're student of the boxing game and have a love for the sport. But the vast corruption that infects the sport (namely the blatantly incestuous relationships between the promoters and sanctioning bodies) makes the "rankings" and the "manditory challenger" a joke.

Jack Newfield wrote an incredible article in the Nation in 2001 which simply skimmed the surface:
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20011112&s=newfield

My complaint is that I feel Roy is wasting the prime (albeit late prime) of his career fighting mainly bums and nobodys. He should be dedicated toward cementing his greatness in Great Fights against Great Opponents.

I never suggested Roy move down to 154, but that De La Hoya, Vargas and Mosley could move up to 160 or 168 to make great fights.

After Hopkins unified the middleweight title (in what I thought was an extremely exciting tournament), Roy showed total disinterest with his demeanor toward making a potentially huge fight. I am a fan of big fights and this would have been a blockbuster with a lot of history and real bad blood (including Roy's victory ten years ago), but it appeared that Roy would be more interested in his pitbulls and fighting cocks. The weight class was a non-issue and this fight was held up because of money (i.e. Roy's demand for a greater portion). Incidentally, I believe Roy would win this fight and it would be one of the best fights in years, but who knows if it'll happen now.

Tarver is an excellent opponent and it should be a good bout.

My feeling is that Roy doesn't truly prosper career-wise at 175 or as a heavyweight. His blinding speed and tiger like ferocity come to the fore when he isn't so bulked up. Also, he just doesn't have the power to knock out any legitimate heavyweights. Watching Roy outjab guys like John Ruiz 20-1 does not make for a great fight. Maybe he feels he cleaned out the divison 92-96 and that he doesn't want to go back, I don't know. I do know I'd love to watch him fight great middleweights and super-middleweights instead of racking up insane punch stat numbers against guys who weigh 50 lbs more than him.



(edited by NickBockwinkelFan on 15.9.03 1724)

(edited by NickBockwinkelFan on 15.9.03 1726)
JayJayDean
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#11 Posted on 15.9.03 1814.30
Reposted on: 15.9.10 1814.35
I know that the rankings are basically corrupt, but I also think it's a valid point that nobody in the area of 175 moved up to force a sanctioning body to make them a #1 contender over the various guys Roy fought in the late '90s.

Did you see the De La Hoya-Mosley fight? Roy commented that, like Bob Fitzsimmons, he'd like have won the light-heavyweight title, the heavyweight title, then go back and win the light-heavyweight title again, THEN go back up to heavyweight again and fight Mike Tyson. I think he'd easily beat Tyson, just as I think he'd easily have beaten Hopkins.

I seem to recall that Hopkins is the one who thought he, as undisputed middleweight champ, should be getting so much money that it killed the potential Roy fight. I personally think that Hopkins wanted nothing to do with Roy, so he priced himself out of the fight, but that's just my opinion.

I also believe that if Oscar De La Hoya showed one tiny speck of interest in fighting Roy at 160 or 168, Roy would take that fight in a SECOND, since that would HAVE to be the biggest potential payday out there for Roy besides Tyson or Lewis. I think Roy would easily KO Oscar unless he had a hard time making the agreed upon weight.
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#12 Posted on 18.9.03 1836.07
Reposted on: 18.9.10 1836.41
JayJay, I'm looking forward to watching the De La Hoya-Mosley fight on HBO Saturday night.

I've been reading a ton of about this fight and here's some of the interesting things:

1) To insure the re-match, Mosley had to win due to the distinct possibility of an immediate De La Hoya retirement cancelling a huge third fight payday

2) The majority of the "East-coast" writers fell in favor of Mosley, due to their hatred of Bob Arum, many writing similar stories to the ones the wrote after the first fight.

3) Punch Stat numbers were heavily in favor of De La Hoya 7 rounds to 3 rounds with 2 rounds even. In your opinion, did perceived "ring generalship" outweigh actual events in the ring?

4) HBO's ringside crew of Foreman, Merchant, Lampley and Lederman rarely agree and they were all stunned as was Costas who hosted the event.

5) Mosley's post fight demeanor was very quiet with gracious respect paid to his opponent. Maybe with his father telling him before the 12th round that he could only win the fight with a KO made him see the decision as a gift.

Your thoughts?



NEO
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#13 Posted on 19.9.03 0724.25
Reposted on: 19.9.10 0727.14
I think RJ put it best when he said "It ain't that I don't fight nobody, I just make them look like nobody." It's true cuz he has clowned every guy that steps in the ring with him. No matter what they are doing now, Roy whupped their ass when they fought him.

I used to be into the whole "Roycott" thing. But I've seen him give people opportunities and they didn't take it. He told Hopkins on HBO: "60/40 and I'll whip yo ass!". Hopkins acted like Roy was crazy. But he'll take a whole lot less to fight De La Hoya? That's another story.

Anyway, I don't blame Roy for fighting who ever he wants to now. I'm just glad to be able to see him on live TV. The last guy to beat him (Gerald McClennan at amatueur level) is unable to box anymore. So there really is nobody out there who can come close to beating him IMO. Fighting Lewis is unrealistic and unnecessary. Tyson...anyway.

It is my belief that anyone can get their ass kicked. But Roy seems to be an exception. P4P, he is untouchable. The only hope of keeping my belief true is maybe this tall-ass lanky fighter who has an ugly style to make an ugly fight. Kinda like Vernon Forrest. He may be the lucky snake to catch the mongoose. However the fact that Roy would fight him for a happy meal does not look good for Tarver.
JayJayDean
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#14 Posted on 19.9.03 0844.08
Reposted on: 19.9.10 0844.37
    Originally posted by NickBockwinkelFan
    JayJay, I'm looking forward to watching the De La Hoya-Mosley fight on HBO Saturday night.

    I've been reading a ton of about this fight and here's some of the interesting things:

    1) To insure the re-match, Mosley had to win due to the distinct possibility of an immediate De La Hoya retirement cancelling a huge third fight payday

    2) The majority of the "East-coast" writers fell in favor of Mosley, due to their hatred of Bob Arum, many writing similar stories to the ones the wrote after the first fight.

    3) Punch Stat numbers were heavily in favor of De La Hoya 7 rounds to 3 rounds with 2 rounds even. In your opinion, did perceived "ring generalship" outweigh actual events in the ring?

    4) HBO's ringside crew of Foreman, Merchant, Lampley and Lederman rarely agree and they were all stunned as was Costas who hosted the event.

    5) Mosley's post fight demeanor was very quiet with gracious respect paid to his opponent. Maybe with his father telling him before the 12th round that he could only win the fight with a KO made him see the decision as a gift.

    Your thoughts?






I pretty much made my thoughts on De La Hoya-Mosley known here.

I am definitely looking forward to watching the replay Saturday to see if I get a different opinion knowing ahead how the fight turned out. Oquendo-Byrd should he fairly entertaining as well.

(edited by JayJayDean on 19.9.03 0713)
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