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Mr Heel II
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#1 Posted on 20.5.02 2210.28
Reposted on: 20.5.09 2211.46

I don’t know why Vince felt it necessary to bring up that Bulldog’s “career was cut short by his (I think Stephanie said in her post "tumultuous") problems outside the ring”. He could have done his entire eulogy without that sentence. Still, it was a good piece.

Did Taker run-in during RVD’s intro so we wouldn’t have to listen to his sucky new music?

JR during Taker’s run-in interview: “Hogan is not expected to be here tonight.” Why WOULD he be there? He’s a Smackdown brand wrestler, and unless he won the Women’s championship between the pay-per-view and now, he CAN’T be on Raw. But HOLY CRAP did RVD get a push out of that segment. 8:13pm and Raw was already about ten times more interesting than I expected the whole night to be.

Lesnar and Dudley. That could be good. That could also be a squash, which would suck.

Okay so I haven’t played the video game, but based on the commercials, are Heyman and Lesnar basically Jax and Dexter?

The Lawler-Raven thing was going along pretty well until Raven walked. What was the point in THAT

Nash shoots! Is he burying the nWo, or trying to revive it? Aw nuts, he's reviving it...

Can Austin sing every week? What? No? That’s a relief.

How do you do a bar segment without Bradshaw.

Raw felt like a whole new show. They needed to do some serious changes and new storylines, and they did so. It was entertaining and unpredictable. Good show.

(edited by Mr Heel II on 20.5.02 2115)
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The Goon
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#2 Posted on 20.5.02 2215.23
Reposted on: 20.5.09 2216.46
Any of us who have been dragged into a karaoke bar can understand why Eddy did what he did.
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#3 Posted on 20.5.02 2217.56
Reposted on: 20.5.09 2218.27
Why doesn't Trish have a locker room? I mean, she IS the Women's Champ and all; you think they'd give her a place to do her stretching.

Austin in bar = bathroom break. I really should've been drinking more 'cuz there were plenty of break opportunities. But, honestly, the "benching" makes total sense; if he's off TV, he CAN'T do any damage (right?).

Booker, nWo, Goldust - who'd have ever thought they'd have something to do with each other? I see potential here.
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#4 Posted on 20.5.02 2220.04
Reposted on: 20.5.09 2220.34
I have done a complete 180 on this product. Now sure, I've got to be cautious, but I tell you what if they can keep going in this direction then they're onto something. I don't care if I KNEW that RVD decision was getting overturned I still pumped my fist when he won. As soon as Taker ran down on RVD's entrance I got that "special night" feeling and they damn sure gave it to me. Eddie getting to feud with Austin!? All for it! I just hope it lasts. Can't wait until Booker saves Goldust from that nWo beatdown! They need to establish Goldust as a face in the next couple of weeks, build to that moment though. Hell, I even marked out for Nash cause I'm ignorant and forgot he existed. Bubba-Lesnar? Tons of potential, finally a real opponent for the Next Big Thing. What a night. If for one night only, the WWF/E is back.

Now if we can make it through Smackdown without HHH squashing my Taker-RVD KotR dreams, I'll really be happy!

Oh and the line of the night:
"Who does this guy think he is!? Julio Iglesias...or somebody else!?"

Laughed all through the commercial break on that mug.

Oh, and although it's not as big a deal to me as some people, props to them for the Bulldog video.
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#5 Posted on 20.5.02 2221.55
Reposted on: 20.5.09 2222.52
Top to Bottom, the best RAW since Hogan laid the smackdown on Rock's crippled ass.

- British Bulldog's tribute was done with the utmost class.

- Undertaker ruled the opening promo, and having RVD come back until he finally got Taker was a nice touch.

- Goldust was as hilarious as he's been the last few weeks.

- RVD as champ, even if only for a minute or so, was still a mark out moment.

Plus, that nWo segment was one of the most thought out and well put together of the past year. Nash bringing up X-Pac's history and talking like he was Mel Gibson in Braveheart was something we haven't seen since old WCW. Plus, HUGE kudos to Booker for selling the fact that he is depressed by the sad look at his hand. It's like he knows he'll be stabbed in the back by these nWo people, but still can't turn them down. In five seconds, Booker T had more character then he's had since stepping into the WWE. SUBTLETY AND FORESHADOWING AT IT'S FINEST HERE.
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#6 Posted on 20.5.02 2225.20
Reposted on: 20.5.09 2228.39
I thought the show as a whole was fucking rad. I didn't listen to the big long flair speach in the middle (damned biography for bein' interesting) though.

The bulldog tribute was fairly classy.

RVD getting the shit kicked out of him then 10 minutes later getting up to jump the undertaker was great.

Golddust as Elvis ruled, the whole "what the fuck is that elivs impersonator doing in the ring" look everyone had on their faces when he jumped in was rad (or at least I couldn't figure out WHY they'd have an elvis impersonator in the ring, unless they were bringin back the honky tonk man).

Heyman was creepily perverted, or just a creepy pervert... Trish's reaction to Lesnar going for her was damned good too.

All the NWO stuff was entertaining/interesting (to me anyway).

Raven was rad, and entertained.

I really really really liked the main event, and call me a moron, but I was actually somewhat suprised when flair came out (I turned off my brain, baby).

I was thouroughly entertained by raw tonight. 4.275697 happy little trees out of 5.

*edit*Oh, and I think the best line of the night was "At least I can get laid, sucka!" or whatever it actually was, but it was something like that. It was funny 'cause it's true.*/edit*

(edited by Fuzzy Logic on 21.5.02 0028)
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#7 Posted on 20.5.02 2228.12
Reposted on: 20.5.09 2229.01
There were things which could be good, but I have no faith anymore in the WWF to turn things around. I'd like to think RVD/UT is the start of something, but I have a hunch it will be forgotten in a week or two in order to push HHH/UT. I'd like to see Eddy/Austin be exciting, but it just smacks of someone for Austin to squash until they figure out what to do with him. I just feel like I have been burned too much every time I've had hope in the WWF lately, and I am not going to get my hopes up this time.

I did enjoy the Booker T/NWO stuff, and actually find myself wondering how that will play out. And it was nice to see them acknowledge the DBS tragedy in a relatively classy way.
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#8 Posted on 20.5.02 2244.47
Reposted on: 20.5.09 2244.47
Overall, this was a good show... I rarely concentrate on the negative, but a few things bothered me:

Hardyz wrestle TWICE? Wow... that RAW roster needs some more talent... Of course we saw very few of the old ECW guys, but any combination Richards, Dreamer (Isn't Barbicide Toxic?), Credible, Spike or even Crash or Stasiak would have been a suitable team.

(And D'Lo had better be headlining Heat if they didn't use him on this show)

Also, the karaoke skits were agonizingly long. These are the sorts of things that can be pre-taped and SHOULD be. There was no direction in that skit, and I was on EDDIE'S side when he finally ended the misery (not the desire of the writing team, I assume)

Notice how much FILLER there was? Why show the Judgement Day opening package? It already happened. Crap like this (and Austin's second song) should have been cut with more time given to matches.

Everything else (and there was a lot of other stuff) was good. Nash may have saved nWo, Brock may have a meaningful fued, Trish and Jackie put on a good match and Arn got some mic time. The good stuff was really good; let's just hope they can tighten the show up in the future.
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#9 Posted on 20.5.02 2247.11
Reposted on: 20.5.09 2247.30
Top story:

My eyes were a little blurry tonight because I know the WWF didn't just show a replay of Chris Jericho's title "win" over Triple H and the D-X "split" tonight.

Oh was RVD and The Undertaker and the NWO. My bad.

Of course, that's looking at the glass half-empty. The upside...RVD looked good, and judging from Chris Jericho's two years, RVD will finally win the title for real. Shoot...I'm being cynical again.

Kevin Nash got a really nice pop...but how about that hair?? I really like this NWO group. Obviously, Booker T. is not long for it, but playing the reluctant member will only serve to get him over as a babyface. Anyway, I think bringing back little things that got the NWO over...the wolf symbol, some catchphrases...that helped the phenomenon is a good thing. I'm not saying that bringing back "4 Life" and "too sweeeet" are going to equal ratings or turn the NWO into big money draws, but the problem with the NWO version WWF was that they were just heels with nothing but reputation separating them from any other heel the WWF has had. So a direction is good for them. Heels are good. Good heels make better babyfaces.

In other news:

1)Brock vs. Bubba. I like it.

2)I really really hope this Raven vs. Lawler wasn't a one-night Memphis crowd popper. The countout leads me to believe that it won't be. Obviously, Raven was right on the money in his allegations about Lawler's commentary, but Raven seemed to get a little tongue-tied and didn't do anything to make himself look much better. The Heat viewers know Raven is good, but obviously, most people don't watch Heat. The whole segment came off like when I trashtalk a friend during a game of "Horse" after he misses a shot and then I miss my own shot. You gotta be able to back up the talk. If they keep the angle going, and give Raven a shot--go with a three-man team for awhile, Raven will be able to shine.

3)The WWF better watch out...Goldust might actually get over.

4)What the hell was that abortion of a segment with Steve Austin and Eddy Guerrero? What the hell is Steve Austin now? I used to be glued to my TV during a Steve Austin segment, now I almost cringe...and then when the What's start, I change the channel. Taking Austin out of the lineup is an interesting twist, but I don't see a way to pull it off.

I don't know if it would bomb like banning the powerbomb did in WCW, but I think if Ric Flair banned the Stunner and sent Austin on a DQ-losing streak, then Austin comes up with a new finisher, wins some matches...then Flair bans Austin from cutting promos. And so on...Flair just strips away little pieces of Stone Cold...then maybe in a few months, Austin will be rejuvinated and weaned from the "What" promo style, he can start talking again and not feed into the "What" insanity.

Overall, a pretty entertaining show. Aside from the Austin in the bar crap, I was interested in the goings-on of the entire show.

PS: I didn't see Bradshaw--and that's a good thing. There's such a huge difference when he's there and when he's not. He really turns the annoying factor up. Hopefully the WWF realizes this.


(edited by BDC on 20.5.02 2054)
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#10 Posted on 20.5.02 2257.59
Reposted on: 20.5.09 2259.01
To think, a year ago I was screaming for the Undertaker to retire. Now he is the best heel in the WWE, Chris Jericho a close second. He actually made RVD watchable! Here's hoping for a long reign for the Dead Man.

Did anyone else think that Flair was going to trade Austin to Smackdown? I sure did! I was hoping for Benoit to run out and punk out Austin, then join up with Flair and Anderson!

Goldust is still gold. Now, get Booka T out of the nWo!
A Fan
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#11 Posted on 20.5.02 2311.03
Reposted on: 20.5.09 2311.52
Good Raw even with the screw job ending. Looks like someone has a good arm in Memphis Flair got that coke cup right in the face. I didn't like the ending since I know Taker/HHH is coming, but it did show that RVD has champ got a major pop, so there is hope. Speaking of hope who thought all hope was lost on the NWO. Wow, they can really suck the air out of arena can't they. Just let it die, Vince.

All in all, a good show I like the Austin bar thing as well as the Bubba/Brock fued. Its good to see the Hardies get some wins now how about a tag team division.

A Fan- Damn Political Correct is gone, but ABC keeps their regular line-up. Whats up with that?
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#12 Posted on 20.5.02 2315.34
Reposted on: 20.5.09 2316.01
Arn Anderson speaks!!!!! When he told SCSA that he got Flair's back, Austin backed away at first like he didn't want to get beat down again by the Man with the one useful arm.

X-Pac is a soul-sucking jerk. Kick him out and put Golddust into nWo. Then they can kick Austin's ass all night and get cheered for it.

Eddy was insulted by Austin. Austin was lucky that the bottle was all he got.

UT/RVD segments were excellent. The tease win was kind of repetitive, but effective. Did you notice that Linda Garcia said, when UT finally won last night, that he is the new champion?

What was supposed to be accomplished by Brock Lesnar beating up women? I was hoping that Jackie would whack Lesnar and Paul E from behind with a chair, and she and Trish would play Nickontrol on the two.

Good show. Still, the the WWE needs The Rock, The Sock and The Wolverine back.

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#13 Posted on 21.5.02 0102.09
Reposted on: 21.5.09 0103.11
I think they are making another huge mistake by having Austin feud with Eddy. They need to get the belt back around Stone Cold's waist. I say this because I went to a local bar to watch the PPV. The crowd was about as small as I've seen. After Austin's match, the place thinned out enough for there to be several open tables and booths. I've never seen that before for a WWF/WWE PPV.

They gotta have Austin's match be last, at least until some other people on the card can draw. Austin is it.
Net Hack Slasher
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#14 Posted on 21.5.02 0124.58
Reposted on: 21.5.09 0125.13
First off real classy tribute, the Fed went over and beyond what I expected.

This show hit on some aspects and missed. But for the first time in a while, I was interested at what was going on when the clock hit 11 est.

-opening - what is with Taker's generic music... nasty gash over RVD's eye... Nice guy who won't stay down segment... I LOVED Undertaker backstage with Flair, wanting a match with RVD and Flair said "fine I'll make a title match". And Taker wanting to say no I didn't mean that but had too much pride to say that so he's just grunting :"Errrrrr"...LOL

-Hardyz v. Show/Pac - This match didn't suck as bad as I thought it would... Liked Elvis dust a lot... Backstage was funny loved them accusing Booker that he's friends with Dust and Booker brushed that off and Goldust adds "hes my personal companion" Book looks at hims like "what?". Book likes Dust but only as friends I could see it sucka

-Trish v. Jackie - I *heart* the women division much ... They used ring psychology for goodness sake, 3 lock ups and all 3 times the vet outwrestled Trish, Trish gets up and kind of calms herself down, regroups & does a different strategy, very cute... OMG that missed chic kick to leg sweep was perfectly timed... Great forarms by Trish (yes I'm lookin at her forarms), Regal is the only other person that does it regulary and Trish's looks just as good (Lita while you are at home, please take note)... also noticed the nice scared to death face expression Trish did.

-Regal v. Bubba - I'm still like Molly w/Regal. I think they could do good things together... Well this match question from the opening second was "what is Brock going to do". I thought Trish is going to feel some damage backstage but I was wrong he went after Bubba with a pretty forgettable attack... Forgettable match as well... What's with Heymans ponytail, on Judgement day I swore he didn't have it and tonight it's there?

-Flair inring interview - Is he saying Stone Cold is suspended or kicked out for the night?

-Bookdust v. Hardyz( them again errr)- literally 1 minute, just enough for Raven to start bitching Lawler out...AFTERMATH - I'm so tired of the nWo in any form I want it to let it sleep already, Nash's i"t was great once it could be again" speech is what's wrong with the WWE in the first place.

-Raven v. King - Raven said everything I feel... Raven as a commenator has my vote for r.s.p-w vote for colour guy of the year

-Eddie/Austin - Eddie singing was painful, and not in a good heel way, in a gosh when is this over way... Austin singing is easily better then Austin whating... I've said for a while Austin rises up or drops to his oppenents level, hopefull a few matches with Eddie kick starts his ass.. but having Eddie as IC champ is confusing then if Austin is in a match with him?

-RVD v. Undertaker - Finally a main event that grabs me... Not as good as there match a few months ago for Takers #1 contendership... Fans took a while to heat up but did eventually... I wanted RVD to win badly but the ending was okay, RVD got a lot of offence in and looked good... I'm still not crazy at all of having Taker on both shows... I actually thought RVD could have very well won tonight.

Who in the blue hell is Linda Garcia, that pretty lady's name is Lilian (with one "L" in the middle) jerkie, LOL... Plus Lawler did say something to the effect of Undertaker winning the title twice in 24 hours. Will they count that as an RVD title victory, I think Lil might have messed up but Lawler said twice in 24 hours so who knows.

What's with Bradshaw, He comes from B' level shows goes right threw the mid-card and main events with Austin and now goes right down and not even on the A'show anymore... Well I'm more then happy not to see this guy.

Line of the night Goldust calling Booker "his personal companion"

Edit in : also had to laugh for Raven messing up and saying "a horseless head, I mean a headless horse" poor Raven, even though I like him a lot

Sign of the night "Vince got screwed by the panda"

(edited by Net Hack Slasher on 21.5.02 0233)
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#15 Posted on 21.5.02 0226.54
Reposted on: 21.5.09 0228.29
    Originally posted by Net Hack Slasher
    "Vince got screwed by the panda"

Damn straight!!

The women's divison IS awesome...and for one simple reason. Fit Finlay. That's right dammit, Fit is the women's agent. You've gotta love that. Fit quote of the day: "No!!! I cannot possibly suck! I'm not American!!" Ahhh, Fit rules.

(edited by PandaMask on 21.5.02 0027)

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#16 Posted on 21.5.02 0358.57
Reposted on: 21.5.09 0359.01
(shakes head)

If you look at the reader reaction on the Torch it's ALL negative.

I just don't understand it.


Oh well, I'm over it now. Losers.
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#17 Posted on 21.5.02 0428.41
Reposted on: 21.5.09 0429.01
I can understand it. They put on a poor show with an ending that just left an awful taste in almost everyone's mouths. The Austin sketches dragged on forever. The NWO thing was met with apathy. And in the end instead of a glorious ascendance of a new star, we get the UT triumphant most likely leading towards a KOTR main event with one of the HHH's, or maybe even both. Gee, why that show didn't get 10's all around is beyond me.
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#18 Posted on 21.5.02 0446.49
Reposted on: 21.5.09 0448.29
Was anybody else waiting for Nash to go "Wash that crap off your face Dustin and we'll get you a shirt" instead of glaring him out?
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#19 Posted on 21.5.02 0622.25
Reposted on: 21.5.09 0622.41

    Originally posted by spf2119
    I can understand it. They put on a poor show with an ending that just left an awful taste in almost everyone's mouths. The Austin sketches dragged on forever. The NWO thing was met with apathy. And in the end instead of a glorious ascendance of a new star, we get the UT triumphant most likely leading towards a KOTR main event with one of the HHH's, or maybe even both. Gee, why that show didn't get 10's all around is beyond me.

I just love how many of the Torchers who made excuses for Jericho's loss and subsequent burial two years ago are now up in arms when it happens to their "boy" RVD. Nobody does jobs in this company unless their hand is obviously forced, except for the second-tier talent like Jericho, Angle and RVD, which causes these guys to do what seems like an excessive amount of jobs. Doing an ending like they did will do nothing to enrich the product, only further drive audiences away.
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#20 Posted on 21.5.02 0630.06
Reposted on: 21.5.09 0631.29
"I can understand it. They put on a poor show with an ending that just left an awful taste in almost everyone's mouths. The Austin sketches dragged on forever. The NWO thing was met with apathy. And in the end instead of a glorious ascendance of a new star, we get the UT triumphant most likely leading towards a KOTR main event with one of the HHH's, or maybe even both. Gee, why that show didn't get 10's all around is beyond me."

A show Eddie AND RVD being moved up the card, an interesting new twist being put on the nWo, and an Undertaker title reign that's ALREADY better than Hogan's. See how you can look at things from both a completely POSITIVE standpoint as opposed to your completely negative standpoint? Try being a fan for once. I've been away from the 'net for a while, and I have to tell you it's got a whole lot easier to enjoy the WWF/E product.
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