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13.12.11 1947
The 7 - Baseball - Jim Rice gets the call Register and log in to post!
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Brian P. Dermody
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#1 Posted on 12.1.09 1329.46
Reposted on: 12.1.16 1329.46
And Rickey Henderson too. (mlb.com)

Take a bow, sir. This is overdue.
Promote this thread!
Big Bad
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#2 Posted on 12.1.09 1426.50
Reposted on: 12.1.16 1426.52
Well, I guess Rice isn't one of the worst Hall of Famers....
Von Maestro
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#3 Posted on 12.1.09 1456.06
Reposted on: 12.1.16 1456.08
Jim Rice was a nice player for the Red Sox, but not a Hall of Famer. Keep in mind that he will be the 202nd Hall of Fame member, & I have a hard time believing that he is one of the top 202 players of all time.

When you look at traditional HoF hitting benchmarks (HRs, Hits, RBIs, etc...), Rice should not be getting a whiff of the Hall when comparing to current Hall members.

One of the special things about the baseball Hall of Fame is that it had always been much more selective in its membership & truly represents the greatest of all time. By allowing an above average player like Rice to get in, it has watered down the membership criteria & opened up arguments for many sub par players to be admitted.

I have nothing personal against Jim Rice, but his election hurts the overall prestige that once came with being elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame.
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#4 Posted on 12.1.09 1505.17
Reposted on: 12.1.16 1505.42
From the National Baseball Hall of Fame website:

Rice led all American Leaguers in homers and RBIs during his 16-year career. Another interesting nugget was that the only retired players with career average and home run totals as high as Rice were Hank Aaron, Jimmie Foxx, Lou Gehrig, Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays, Stan Musial, Mel Ott, Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, all of whom are Hall of Famers.
thecubsfan
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#5 Posted on 12.1.09 1510.25
Reposted on: 12.1.16 1510.42
It does, but it almost means Dawson will be (just as unswervingly) getting in a couple years and that'll be fun times.

I'm not saying you had to vote for Ricky Henderson, but if you're one of the 28 who didn't, you owe it to the public explain why. Those voting got to vote because there job is (or was) to inform the people on baseball, so obviously there's a story the public is not being informed with if Ricky is not a HOF-er in their eyes.

I'm not even asking for a good explanation - Corky Simpson's half explanation with a "how dare you internet question my judgment" message is perfectly fine. Better we know what's really going into the voting decisions so many people obsesses over.


    Another interesting nugget was that the only retired players with career average and home run totals as high as Rice were Hank Aaron, Jimmie Foxx, Lou Gehrig, Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays, Stan Musial, Mel Ott, Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, all of whom are Hall of Famers.


Fancy way of saying he's got the worst average and least home runs of anyone mentioned on that list. You'd think the BBHOF would find a better way to hype a guy as worthy than pointing out guys who are better than him.

(edited by thecubsfan on 12.1.09 1525)
BoromirMark
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#6 Posted on 12.1.09 1531.34
Reposted on: 12.1.16 1531.54
And once again deserving Detroit Tigers are screwed.

Though, hopefully at least Andre Dawson can escape some of the biased nonsense that swirls around in the HoF voting like the type that keeps Morris and Trammell (and booted Whitaker) down.

(edited by BoromirMark on 12.1.09 1632)
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#7 Posted on 12.1.09 1546.14
Reposted on: 12.1.16 1546.18
If Jim Rice gets in does that mean Dale Murphy should too? I don't like the idea that a guy gets in by a hair in his last year of eligibility. He's a nice player, but no HoFer.

No love for Jack Morris, damn.
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#8 Posted on 12.1.09 1729.18
Reposted on: 12.1.16 1729.19
Hated him as a fan of the Tribe but he is worthy, not just as flashy. God am I looking forward to Rickey's acceptance speech.
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#9 Posted on 12.1.09 1801.20
Reposted on: 12.1.16 1801.30
    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
    If Jim Rice gets in does that mean Dale Murphy should too? I don't like the idea that a guy gets in by a hair in his last year of eligibility. He's a nice player, but no HoFer.

    No love for Jack Morris, damn.


Posnanski has a blog entry today comparing Rice and Murphy.
kwik
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#10 Posted on 12.1.09 1842.37
Reposted on: 12.1.16 1842.50
The full results. 405 votes were needed for election, and 27 were needed to stay on the ballot:

Ricky Henderson- 511
Jim Rice- 412
Andre Dawson- 361
Bert Blyleven- 338
Lee Smith- 240
Jack Morris- 237
Tommy John- 171 (Final year of eligibility)
Tim Raines- 122
Mark McGwire- 118
Alan Tramell- 94
Dave Parker- 81
Don Mattingly- 64
Dale Murphy- 62
Harold Baines- 32
--------------------Eligibility Cutoff-------------
Mark Grace- 22
David Cone- 21
Matt Williams- 7
Mo Vaughn- 6
Jay Bell- 2
Jesse Orosco- 1
Ron Gant- 0
Dan Plesac- 0
Greg Vaughn- 0

Notable newcomers for 2010: Robbie Alomar, Barry Larkin, Fred McGriff, and Edgar Martinez.

Note that, aside from Henderson, all the other candidates in their first year of eligibility did not even hit the cutoff to stay on the ballot.

Peter The Hegemon
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#11 Posted on 12.1.09 2209.53
Reposted on: 12.1.16 2210.46
    Originally posted by thecubsfan


      Another interesting nugget was that the only retired players with career average and home run totals as high as Rice were Hank Aaron, Jimmie Foxx, Lou Gehrig, Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays, Stan Musial, Mel Ott, Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, all of whom are Hall of Famers.


    Fancy way of saying he's got the worst average and least home runs of anyone mentioned on that list. You'd think the BBHOF would find a better way to hype a guy as worthy than pointing out guys who are better than him.

    (edited by thecubsfan on 12.1.09 1525)


Well, do the math. That means he was higher in at least one of those two areas than, say, Ralph Kiner, Joe DiMaggio, Ty Cobb, George Brett, Mike Schmidt, Dave Winfield, Reggie Jackson, Willie McCovey, and numerous other guys who are in the Hall because of their hitting.

Jim Rice was among the very best offensive players of his time and I think he's deserving. The voters got it just right as far as I'm concerned. (Well, except the 6 who voted for Mo Vaughan...as a Met fan, that stings!)
supersalvadoran
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#12 Posted on 13.1.09 0359.19
Reposted on: 13.1.16 0359.43
    Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon

    Jim Rice was among the very best offensive players of his time and I think he's deserving. The voters got it just right as far as I'm concerned. (Well, except the 6 who voted for Mo Vaughan...as a Met fan, that stings!)


Preach on! The only HOF Mo Vaughn should be considered for is the 'fat asses who are big contract busts' one. He'll porbably be joined in a couple of years with Bartolo Colon in that HOF.

As for Rice and Henderson, congrats to both. I say they are both deserving. Henderson is pretty obvious, although having to deal with him while he was a Met make me realize he's a crappy person to make as a leader-type. He's a great individual, but not someone you want to have as a coach, which the Mets inexplictaly made a couple of years ago. Rice meanwhile was a great hitter for his time and if he were compariable to the players of today, I would say he that he would probably have similar stats to Manny or Sheffield, both future HOF'ers in my mind. If you don't believe he's in, then I guess you have to take out guys like Billy Williams and Duke Snider, according to the similar batters list on this (baseball-reference.com). It should also be noted that Rice HOf monitor is well ahead of the average HOF'er batting wise, according to the link. He's ahead of HOF'ers such as Ralph Kiner, Robin Yount, Willie McCovey, and Willie Stargell according to the list.

I would had liked to see Byelven in and I was a bit surprised that Dawson wasn't as close to getting in as would had hoped for (had him being at most just 20 votes shy so that he would have a good shot in next year, but I guess it may take longer then expected). Other than that, I think they got it right, though I'm with thecubsfan in wanting a better explanation from Corky Simpson. Actually, I found the whole thing funny, as he later admitted he should had voted for Rickey... for being on so many different teams (9). If that stupidity doesn't get his vote revoked, I don't know what will.
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#13 Posted on 13.1.09 0914.23
Reposted on: 13.1.16 0914.29
With Rickey babbling about wanting to play a few games this season for the A's, those who didn't vote for him now have cover, as they can claim they really didn't consider Rickey to be retired.
Glad to see Rice get in, as, outside of wartime, it provided the Red Sox with Hall of Famers playing left field for 50 years (Williams to Yaz to Rice). Doubt that Greenwell and O'Leary will continue that tradition, but Ramirez will renew it. Rice will also be one of the last of the players to get into the Hall of Fame while only playing for 1 organization for his entire career.

(edited by redsoxnation on 13.1.09 1015)
Joseph Ryder
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#14 Posted on 13.1.09 1145.37
Reposted on: 13.1.16 1145.51
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    Rice will also be one of the last of the players to get into the Hall of Fame while only playing for 1 organization for his entire career.

Vote Barry Larkin in 2010!
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#15 Posted on 13.1.09 1239.19
Reposted on: 13.1.16 1240.35
    Originally posted by Joseph Ryder
      Originally posted by redsoxnation
      Rice will also be one of the last of the players to get into the Hall of Fame while only playing for 1 organization for his entire career.

    Vote Barry Larkin in 2010!
...and Craig Biggio a couple of years after that (if you're a fan of Biggio, I suppose).
thecubsfan
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#16 Posted on 13.1.09 1252.16
Reposted on: 13.1.16 1252.39
I think Derek Jeter might stand a chance of both staying a Yankee forever and being in the HOF.
JayJayDean
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#17 Posted on 13.1.09 1341.14
Reposted on: 13.1.16 1341.38
    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    I think Derek Jeter might stand a chance of both staying a Yankee forever and being in the HOF.


Is it wrong that I was immediately giddy with the thought of Jeter finishing his career in an odd uniform, say, the Giants or something? (If so, I don't wanna be right.)
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#18 Posted on 14.1.09 1822.09
Reposted on: 14.1.16 1822.32
    Originally posted by kwik
    Notable newcomers for 2010: Robbie Alomar, Barry Larkin, Fred McGriff, and Edgar Martinez.





The long awaited Edgar Martinez DH debate is almost upon us. I'm a huge huge fan of Edgar. The man was a great hitter, but I think injuries are going to keep him from getting in. I'm thinking he falls into that Harold Baines class.
Peter The Hegemon
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#19 Posted on 15.1.09 0327.26
Reposted on: 15.1.16 0327.40
    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    I think Derek Jeter might stand a chance of both staying a Yankee forever and being in the HOF.


As might Mariano.

TheBucsFan
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#20 Posted on 15.1.09 0414.14
Reposted on: 15.1.16 0414.32
    Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon
      Originally posted by thecubsfan
      I think Derek Jeter might stand a chance of both staying a Yankee forever and being in the HOF.


    As might Mariano.




The Cardinals would be insane to ever let Albert Pujols get away. Maybe at the end of his career, but I could see him never leaving St Louis.
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