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CRZ
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#1 Posted on 14.5.06 1648.08
Reposted on: 14.5.13 1648.35
Then again...

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/417653p-352779c.html


    Knicks buying out Larry?

    Dolan may be mulling move


    BY FRANK ISOLA
    DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER


    Garden chairman James Dolan apparently has started the process of ending Larry Brown's dream job after one season.

    According to sources, Dolan, upset over Brown's record and the coach's public criticism of his players, is considering buying out the final four years of Brown's contract, worth at least $40 million.

    The Knicks declined to comment, and would neither confirm nor deny one published report that already is naming Knicks president Isiah Thomas as Brown's successor. Brown has indicated that he will not resign, but if Thomas takes over, the Knicks would avoid having to pay another coach upwards of $5 million annually.

    Thomas, who coached the Pacers from 2000-2003 but never got them out of the first round of the playoffs, is said to be amenable to coaching the Knicks, one source told the Daily News.

    [MORE]
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It's False
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#2 Posted on 14.5.06 1735.15
Reposted on: 14.5.13 1735.16
If this was anybody but Larry Brown, I'd have a little sympathy. If this story is true, though, no one deserves this fate more than he does after the living soap opera he put Detroit through last year. Have fun on the unemployment line!

As for the Knicks, is this story turns out to be true, is there ANYBODY who would coach this team?

Anyone NOT named Isaiah?
redsoxnation
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#3 Posted on 14.5.06 1752.38
Reposted on: 14.5.13 1753.03
Front page of the Sunday New York Post www.nypost.com has Vecsey claiming that the Knicks are planning to dump Brown in order to install Isiah as their coach. With 82 public train wrecks in a season, the Bulls must really be salivating over the opportunity to flip #1 picks in the '07 draft due to the 'brilliant' Curry deal orchestrated by Isiah, especially if the next great center only goes to Ohio State for one year.
As for Larry Brown: He got a multi-million dollar buyout from the Pistons, and, even if the Knicks only pay him 50 cents on the dollar for the last 4 seasons, it means he would make $30 million for one disasterous season with the Knicks. Can't wait to hear Larry weep about how it has been his dream since childhood to coach in Sacramento, Utah etc., etc.
And, after the wonderful job Isiah has done assembling the team, bringing great P.R. to the Garden by being sued for sexual harrassment and being rewarded with the opportunity to coach the team as well, one really has to wonder how many copies of the pictures of Dolan performing unnatural acts with a chimpanzee are in the possession of Isiah.
And, as long as Dolan owns a team and Isiah has possession of those photos, Danny Ainge doesn't have to worry about becoming the worst executive in the NBA.

(edited by redsoxnation on 14.5.06 1855)
Guru Zim
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#4 Posted on 14.5.06 1824.23
Reposted on: 14.5.13 1824.23
I'm only asking this because I don't get it.

Is there anyone out there - anyone at all - saying that Isiah is doing a good job?

I'd love to read something defending him. It seems like everyone thinks he is doing a horrible job.

Is this a case of stubbornly sticking to their guns with Isiah despite all evidence against him?
BigSteve
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#5 Posted on 14.5.06 1853.04
Reposted on: 14.5.13 1853.04
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    I'm only asking this because I don't get it.

    Is there anyone out there - anyone at all - saying that Isiah is doing a good job?

    I'd love to read something defending him. It seems like everyone thinks he is doing a horrible job.

    Is this a case of stubbornly sticking to their guns with Isiah despite all evidence against him?


That's pretty much what it is. I've read arguments in his favor (can't remember a link unfortunately), but the argument boils down to Isiah is getting a bad wrap because the Knicks were in a bad situation because of Layden when Isiah took over so we shouldn't blame him for not turning them around yet. This of course ignores the fact that he's made them a worse team by making trades like Hardaway for Stevie Franchise.

Also, there's the interesting "stockpiling assets" argument where it's claimed that Isiah is getting a bunch of guys like Francis so he can eventually move them for KG or someone like that.
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#6 Posted on 15.5.06 1428.37
Reposted on: 15.5.13 1428.43
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    Is this a case of stubbornly sticking to their guns with Isiah despite all evidence against him?


Also known as the "James Dolan Syndrome." Jim Dolan does not like to admit he is wrong about something. For 7 years with the Rangers, he stuck by Sather only to have the last laugh when they finally made the playoffs this season(Never mind the disastrous outcome, he gets to raise ticket prices next season!)

He's going to do the same thing with Isiah. If I didn't hate the Knicks, I might feel sympathy.

RYDER FAKIN
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#7 Posted on 15.5.06 1700.01
Reposted on: 15.5.13 1702.45
redsoxnation: one really has to wonder how many copies of the pictures of Dolan performing unnatural acts with a chimpanzee are in the possession of Isiah.

heh - that seems to be a popular theory! But this one is about 50% right

David Adams: Also known as the "James Dolan Syndrome." Jim Dolan does not like to admit he is wrong about something. For 7 years with the Rangers, he stuck by Sather only to have the last laugh when they finally made the playoffs this season(Never mind the disastrous outcome, he gets to raise ticket prices next season!)

The other half of that - Dolan, and being a New York team is the nail in the coffin, does not want to go on record for firing a high profile - probably the highest profile -black executive in the major sports. And I don't doubt for a second that peckerhead Isiah would "go there". And people would believe him.

Just let him Coach the team and get it over with. And just for shits and giggles, keep Larry Brown on as "consultant". "Liaison to the Press" or something. For my $40 million he'd better cry every night

FLEA

DJ FrostyFreeze
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#8 Posted on 15.5.06 1709.33
Reposted on: 15.5.13 1709.37
    Originally posted by RYDER FAKIN
    Dolan [...] does not want to go on record for firing a high profile [...] black executive in the major sports. And I don't doubt for a second that peckerhead Isiah would "go there". And people would believe him.
But in this case, the high profile black sports executive is FAILING at his job in every sense of the word.

No one with any sense in their head would believe for more than 4 seconds that Isiah Thomas' firing had do with with anything else but him doing a completely awful job. Even if Zeke does "go there", Dolan would only have to point out all of the lop-sided trades & franchise-ruining deals Thomas has pulled during his tenure in NY and anyone who initially "went there" with Isiah would quickly come back to their senses and realize that it only makes sense to cut him loose.

I have no idea why Thomas is still there, but I dont think anyone would be dumb enough to "go there" after he gets fired.
CRZ
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#9 Posted on 15.5.06 2303.58
Reposted on: 15.5.13 2308.09
    Originally posted by DJ FrostyFreeze
    I have no idea why Thomas is still there, but I dont think anyone would be dumb enough to "go there" after he gets fired.
Jesse Jackson on line one...
pieman
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#10 Posted on 16.5.06 0900.58
Reposted on: 16.5.13 0901.02
The reasoning I heard this morning was from Trey Wingo (I think) - If Thomas thinks he assembled a good group of players, then let Thomas coach them and make them into a winning team. When they fail miserably again, then Thomas can't blame anyone but himself. Makes some sense to me. And Larry Brown gets for $20 million to NOT coach this team? Doesn't sound like he's getting the short end of the stick, either.
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#11 Posted on 16.5.06 1815.27
Reposted on: 16.5.13 1827.07
Has Sacramento made a hire yet?

Think I've seen this one before.....


StingArmy
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#12 Posted on 16.5.06 1821.48
Reposted on: 16.5.13 1829.02
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    Has Sacramento made a hire yet?

    Think I've seen this one before.....




Sacramento and Golden State are allegedly already lining up as suitors for Brown.

- StingArmy
Wpob
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#13 Posted on 17.5.06 1055.20
Reposted on: 17.5.13 1056.39
    Originally posted by pieman
    The reasoning I heard this morning was from Trey Wingo (I think) - If Thomas thinks he assembled a good group of players, then let Thomas coach them and make them into a winning team. When they fail miserably again, then Thomas can't blame anyone but himself. Makes some sense to me. And Larry Brown gets for $20 million to NOT coach this team? Doesn't sound like he's getting the short end of the stick, either.


Brown will not agree to a settlement leavign that much money ont he table. He ould rather be fired and collect it all. Thomas will no doubt coach the team next year and they will win more games than last year and he willbe bale to coach again. And the next year, eh will win about the same and they will keep him as Dolan will buy the whole " we are truning the corner" speech. Finally, in year three of coaching, all hell will break loose and Dolan will have no choice but to fire Isiah.

For all of us Knick fans, Isiah is here for another three years. Get used to it. Well, that and mediocre basketball.
JayJayDean
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#14 Posted on 17.5.06 1301.53
Reposted on: 17.5.13 1303.44
    Originally posted by Wpob
    Well, that and mediocre basketball.


"Mediocre"? Did they improve during the playoffs and nobody told me?
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#15 Posted on 17.5.06 1306.27
Reposted on: 17.5.13 1306.40
On the other hand, even though my team's not particularly good right now either, as a Pacers fan I absolutely have to snicker at the Knicks' misfortune. If I didn't, I'd lose my Pacers Fan Membership Card.
DirtyMikeSeaver
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#16 Posted on 19.5.06 1134.25
Reposted on: 19.5.13 1135.05
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    I'm only asking this because I don't get it.

    Is there anyone out there - anyone at all - saying that Isiah is doing a good job?

    I'd love to read something defending him. It seems like everyone thinks he is doing a horrible job.

    Is this a case of stubbornly sticking to their guns with Isiah despite all evidence against him?


OK, I'm going to try....

Isiah is a lot of things, but he know how to draft. Damon Stoudamire, Marcus Camby, Tracy McGrady, Channing Frye, heck even David Lee. That's a pretty decent roster of talent. If he was director of scouting or something, he'd probably be pretty good.

Also, I think that Larry Brown gets off WAY too easy on this. This team wasn't a 23 win team. Isiah might have picked up some 'questionable' guys and the chemistry was in a word, horrid, but the Raptors managed to win 4 more games with a team that could stop anyone, with Matt Bonner and Joey Graham a part of their regular rotation and with Sam Mitchell as their coach (I like the guy, but he gets off WAY to easy in this town). I mean, there IS talent on that roster. A competent coach should have at least got 33 wins out of this team.

I also see what Isiah is trying to do. He's going for the best talent and really not trying to be about 'positions'. Let's face it. There aren't a lot of centres out there. Look in the East. Shaq is overweight, sliding past his prime and not even close to being the best player on his team and he STILL was a 1st team all star centre. The 2nd team all star center is a 6' 9" guy who an even worse free throw shooter than Shaq. I think seeing all of this and seeing where the league might be going, Isiah is trying to put a team on there that will 'out talent' and 'out gun' other teams. If you can't get a dominant (or even decent) big guy, using the Phoenix model might be your only hope and I THINK that's what he's trying to do. He's just doing in the wrong way.
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#17 Posted on 20.5.06 0121.37
Reposted on: 20.5.13 0122.27
    Originally posted by DirtyMikeSeaver
    I also see what Isiah is trying to do. He's going for the best talent and really not trying to be about 'positions'. Let's face it. There aren't a lot of centres out there. Look in the East. Shaq is overweight, sliding past his prime and not even close to being the best player on his team and he STILL was a 1st team all star centre. The 2nd team all star center is a 6' 9" guy who an even worse free throw shooter than Shaq. I think seeing all of this and seeing where the league might be going, Isiah is trying to put a team on there that will 'out talent' and 'out gun' other teams. If you can't get a dominant (or even decent) big guy, using the Phoenix model might be your only hope and I THINK that's what he's trying to do. He's just doing in the wrong way.


I see the logic here, but if Isiah's really thinking that way, then the logic is flawed. The Phoenix formula only works because of the intangible element that Steve Nash brings to the table. No one on the Knicks team is even close to Nash's level of talent and without anyone even approaching Nash-like levels, New York won't be mistaken for Phoenix anytime soon.

Also, on that note, we've seen how poorly the Suns play WITHOUT Nash, which tells me the Phoenix model doesn't work.
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#18 Posted on 20.5.06 1029.03
Reposted on: 20.5.13 1030.29
    Originally posted by DirtyMikeSeaver
      Originally posted by Guru Zim
      I'm only asking this because I don't get it.

      Is there anyone out there - anyone at all - saying that Isiah is doing a good job?

      I'd love to read something defending him. It seems like everyone thinks he is doing a horrible job.

      Is this a case of stubbornly sticking to their guns with Isiah despite all evidence against him?


    OK, I'm going to try....

    Isiah is a lot of things, but he know how to draft. Damon Stoudamire, Marcus Camby, Tracy McGrady, Channing Frye, heck even David Lee. That's a pretty decent roster of talent. If he was director of scouting or something, he'd probably be pretty good.

    Also, I think that Larry Brown gets off WAY too easy on this. This team wasn't a 23 win team. Isiah might have picked up some 'questionable' guys and the chemistry was in a word, horrid, but the Raptors managed to win 4 more games with a team that could stop anyone, with Matt Bonner and Joey Graham a part of their regular rotation and with Sam Mitchell as their coach (I like the guy, but he gets off WAY to easy in this town). I mean, there IS talent on that roster. A competent coach should have at least got 33 wins out of this team.

    I also see what Isiah is trying to do. He's going for the best talent and really not trying to be about 'positions'. Let's face it. There aren't a lot of centres out there. Look in the East. Shaq is overweight, sliding past his prime and not even close to being the best player on his team and he STILL was a 1st team all star centre. The 2nd team all star center is a 6' 9" guy who an even worse free throw shooter than Shaq. I think seeing all of this and seeing where the league might be going, Isiah is trying to put a team on there that will 'out talent' and 'out gun' other teams. If you can't get a dominant (or even decent) big guy, using the Phoenix model might be your only hope and I THINK that's what he's trying to do. He's just doing in the wrong way.


Brown has done a bad job of coaching I agree. I didn't think NY would be a playoff team but I didn't think they'd be this bad.

I'll give it to you on Isiah's drafting ability, although I think Frye is a bit overrated (he's good for about 15 ppg but he's a below average defender and poor rebounder for his height) and Lee is WAY overrated. If he was playing for Utah or Atlanta no one would know about him. Zeke though has made too many trades for the NY roster to have any time to build some chemistry together. Plus the trade with Chicago for Curry will probably be look at as one of the worst trades ever if certain things play out.

The main thing is that with the Curry trade, Zeke took away what he's best at (drafting). They send the pick to Chicago from this years draft and if they get a high lottery pick next year the Bulls can switch with them. NY does have some picks in the lower 1st round, and while you can usually get good bench guys and maybe decent starters there if you know how to draft, you usually don't get impact players to help turn you club around. He also gave Curry a HUGE contract which clogs up NY's cap for many years.

The Knicks could end up with the #1 pick this year and next year and will have to send both away to Chicago. Tyus Thomas and Greg Oden could be the starting 4/5 players for Chicago to start the 2007/2008 season thanks to the Curry trade.
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#19 Posted on 20.5.06 2054.31
Reposted on: 20.5.13 2056.56
    Originally posted by DirtyMikeSeaver
    Isiah is a lot of things, but he know how to draft. Damon Stoudamire, Marcus Camby, Tracy McGrady, Channing Frye, heck even David Lee. That's a pretty decent roster of talent.


Damon Stoudamire was drafted #7 overall in 1995.
Decent pick, certainly better than Bryant Reeves.

Marcus Camby was drafted #2 overall in 1996.
Before I spoil anything, does Marcus Camby strike
you as a good #2 overall pick in any NBA draft?

Here are the first 20 picks from the 1996 draft.

1 PHI Allen Iverson Georgetown
2 TOR Marcus Camby Massachusetts
3 VAN Shareef AbdurRahim California
4 MIL Stephon Marbury Georgia Tech
5 MIN Ray Allen Connecticut
6 BOS Antoine Walker Kentucky
7 LAC Lorenzen Wright Memphis (TN)
8 NJN Kerry Kittles Villanova
9 DAL Samaki Walker Louisville
10 IND Erick Dampier Mississippi State
11 GSW Todd Fuller North Carolina State
12 CLE Vitaly Potapenko Wright State
13 CHA Kobe Bryant Lower Merion (PA) HS
14 SAC Predrag Stojakovic PAOK Greece
15 PHO Steve Nash Santa Clara
16 CHA Tony Delk Kentucky
17 POR Jermaine ONeal Eau Claire (SC) HS
18 NYK John Wallace Syracuse
19 NYK Walter McCarty Kentucky
20 CLE Zydrunas Ilgauskas Lithuania

Camby doesn't strike me as an inspired pick.

Tracy McGrady was drafted #9 overall in 1997.
Great selection, but the Raptors had a bad season
and Zeke quit after his bid to buy the team failed.

Overall I'd say it's a mixed bag. Hard to see
journeyman Camby as a quality #2 pick and Damon
never amounted to more than a low lottery pick
once one looks past the hype.
Merc
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#20 Posted on 21.5.06 0511.46
Reposted on: 21.5.13 0512.48
    Originally posted by Boston Idol
    Hard to see
    journeyman Camby as a quality #2 pick


When Camby was drafted, did anyone have any idea he was made of glass? If he had played 10 years uninjured, it could have been an excellent pick based on his when healthy production.
The other question I have is who the hell is Todd Fuller? I recognise every other name on the list.......
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