The W
Views: 139237171
Main | FAQ | Search: Y! / G | Color chart | Log in for more!
15.12.11 1507
The 7 - Current Events & Politics - I Guess Pigs Fly In Space Register and log in to post!
Pages: 1 2 Next(843 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
User
Post (21 total)
spf
Scrapple
Level: 138

Posts: 3041/5410
EXP: 31308998
For next: 354062

Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 1140 days
Last activity: 14 days
AIM:  
#1 Posted on 6.12.04 1258.48
Reposted on: 6.12.11 1259.01
As the GOP continues their fine tradition of being against big government except when they're for it, Tom DeLay rams through 16.2 freaking BILLION for NASA (story.news.yahoo.com)

The best part of the story is this quote


    I wouldn't say we're critical of the moon-Mars program, but we are critical of the lack of clarity about the scientific benefits," said physicist Michael Lubell, spokesman for the American Physical Society, the nation's largest association of research physicists. "This is bound to be an extremely costly project, so what are we going to get from it?"


To answer the question of who will benefit from this...


    DeLay delivered NASA's full $16.2 billion budget request as part of the omnibus $388 billion spending bill passed Nov. 20...DeLay, whose newly redrawn district includes the Johnson Space Center


Oh. Well then.
Promote this thread!
Grimis
Scrapple
Level: 129

Posts: 4371/4700
EXP: 24961447
For next: 88274

Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 2783 days
Last activity: 1238 days
#2 Posted on 6.12.04 1303.40
Reposted on: 6.12.11 1303.41
I'm not going to hate on spending for NASA, even if practical space exploration will continue to be undertaken by prviate enterprise and the "against it except for when they're for it" motto is dead on.
spf
Scrapple
Level: 138

Posts: 3042/5410
EXP: 31308998
For next: 354062

Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 1140 days
Last activity: 14 days
AIM:  
#3 Posted on 6.12.04 1410.55
Reposted on: 6.12.11 1411.09
    Originally posted by Grimis
    I'm not going to hate on spending for NASA, even if practical space exploration will continue to be undertaken by prviate enterprise and the "against it except for when they're for it" motto is dead on.

But if the practical stuff is being taken on by private enterprise, then what in the name of the Cato Institute is this spending? Impractical? Wasteful? You know me, I'm all for bigger government, but at least when you tell me we're spending $16 billion on social welfare or something I know there's a chance someone might get to eat who otherwise wouldn't. This just boggles my mind as it seems to go against every single GOP principle. To wit:

-private enterprise is better at innovation than our inefficient government.

-smaller government is better government.

-The government needs to be run more like a business.

I guess I'm just curious, because I know you've alluded to NASA being something you like before...why? It seems to be antithetical to everything you believe in. It CERTAINLY is not enumerated in the Constitution, unless interstate commerce is held to possibly regulate dealing with Moon Men.

The only thing I can think of to justify this would be if amidst all the other stuff going on we weren't using this as a way to perhaps put some Star Wars program like stuff up in space cloaked in a more civilian friendly wrapping.
Grimis
Scrapple
Level: 129

Posts: 4372/4700
EXP: 24961447
For next: 88274

Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 2783 days
Last activity: 1238 days
#4 Posted on 6.12.04 1434.02
Reposted on: 6.12.11 1434.34
I know, it does seem to be go against GOP principles, but let's face it; both sides have done enough to screw up the planet and one day its going to bite us. We need a backup plan.
    Originally posted by spf
    CERTAINLY is not enumerated in the Constitution, unless interstate commerce is held to possibly regulate dealing with Moon Men.
Article I, Section 8, Clause 7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads.

If you put people there, they need to have post office serivce.

OK, that's a tad of a stretch.

Right now, NASA has the only technological means to go to Mars. But that does not mean that NASA is perfect; we would be a lot better off in NASA were run more like a business because there is a lot of toomfoolery going on in the contractors that work on NASA stuff.
rockstar
Salami
Level: 35

Posts: 209/229
EXP: 272678
For next: 7260

Since: 2.1.02
From: East TN

Since last post: 5082 days
Last activity: 4960 days
#5 Posted on 6.12.04 1547.28
Reposted on: 6.12.11 1548.33
The Constitution says this:

Art. 1, Sec. 8, Clause 8: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts

As reading half a sentence and calling it a day is a legitimate excercise in Strict Interpretation, that should work for all GOP operatives.

I'm all for NASA and I'm not interested in complaining about funding something I like just because it comes from someone I don't like. Of course, $16.2B buys a lot of votes and goodwill for "the Hammer," which is the whole of the principles any politician has.

However, there are a considerable amount of things to be said about Tom DeLay aside from his schizophrenic support of NASA.
Stilton
Frankfurter
Level: 59

Posts: 476/793
EXP: 1644783
For next: 28355

Since: 7.2.04
From: Canada

Since last post: 4698 days
Last activity: 4697 days
#6 Posted on 6.12.04 2300.31
Reposted on: 6.12.11 2322.26
As far as I can tell, the reasons to send a human being to Mars instead of more robots (which can do more work, collect more data, and stay there longer for a lot less money) boils down to one thing: higher TV ratings.

Plus, it'll give those responsible an opportunity to spin their initiative with words like "intrepid" and "hero" and "human spirit" and such. People love that. The emperors of Rome knew it: when the people don't know what to think, give them bread and circuses. Well, at least in this case, the circus will do just fine on its own, since it doesn't look like any of the bread is going to make its way to the people.


(edited by Stilton on 7.12.04 0002)
Dahak
Frankfurter
Level: 59

Posts: 542/772
EXP: 1669950
For next: 3188

Since: 12.5.02
From: Junction City OR.

Since last post: 3540 days
Last activity: 3193 days
#7 Posted on 7.12.04 0026.35
Reposted on: 7.12.11 0026.58
    Originally posted by Stilton
    As far as I can tell, the reasons to send a human being to Mars instead of more robots (which can do more work, collect more data, and stay there longer for a lot less money) boils down to one thing: higher TV ratings.

    Plus, it'll give those responsible an opportunity to spin their initiative with words like "intrepid" and "hero" and "human spirit" and such. People love that. The emperors of Rome knew it: when the people don't know what to think, give them bread and circuses. Well, at least in this case, the circus will do just fine on its own, since it doesn't look like any of the bread is going to make its way to the people.


    (edited by Stilton on 7.12.04 0002)


Wow I don't know where to begin. The US is like Rome? That must worry you then that the US is going to invade your country and make all of you slaves? Slavery is legal and poor people can't work because freeing the slaves would cause to many problems? There have been roughly 200 civil wars in the last 750 years? Oh so the US is pretty much nothing like Rome is it?
Oh and where are the millions of people starving in the US? There is very little money spent on socil programs huh? Because Canada does so much better huh? Jesus if you are going to US bash come up with something original and not some idiotic US/Rome comparison.
Stilton
Frankfurter
Level: 59

Posts: 477/793
EXP: 1644783
For next: 28355

Since: 7.2.04
From: Canada

Since last post: 4698 days
Last activity: 4697 days
#8 Posted on 7.12.04 0224.46
Reposted on: 7.12.11 0224.49
    Originally posted by Dahak
      Originally posted by Stilton
      As far as I can tell, the reasons to send a human being to Mars instead of more robots (which can do more work, collect more data, and stay there longer for a lot less money) boils down to one thing: higher TV ratings.

      Plus, it'll give those responsible an opportunity to spin their initiative with words like "intrepid" and "hero" and "human spirit" and such. People love that. The emperors of Rome knew it: when the people don't know what to think, give them bread and circuses. Well, at least in this case, the circus will do just fine on its own, since it doesn't look like any of the bread is going to make its way to the people.


      (edited by Stilton on 7.12.04 0002)


    Wow I don't know where to begin. The US is like Rome? That must worry you then that the US is going to invade your country and make all of you slaves? Slavery is legal and poor people can't work because freeing the slaves would cause to many problems? There have been roughly 200 civil wars in the last 750 years? Oh so the US is pretty much nothing like Rome is it?
    Oh and where are the millions of people starving in the US? There is very little money spent on socil programs huh? Because Canada does so much better huh? Jesus if you are going to US bash come up with something original and not some idiotic US/Rome comparison.



Actually, in this case, all I'm referring to is the sensational nature of the Moon-Mars program itself, not the US as a country.

As for the US, I have a lot of family there and spend an awful lot of time there. I actually like the US very much. Well, about half of it, anyway *

*(which, if you believe "the media" seems to be the opinion of most in the US these days, as well, whichever side of the political spectrum you happen to be on)

But really, all I was saying is that sending humans to Mars is more about PR and prestige than it is about science. There's not much a man can do on Mars right now that a robot can't do better and cheaper and safer. Perhaps after more automated exploration of the red planet, when the proper data has been collected and the risks of cross-contamination of the martian environment have been assessed, it will be time to send people there, but doing it now just doesn't make scientific sense.

(edited by Stilton on 7.12.04 0342)
Grimis
Scrapple
Level: 129

Posts: 4374/4700
EXP: 24961447
For next: 88274

Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 2783 days
Last activity: 1238 days
#9 Posted on 7.12.04 0636.31
Reposted on: 7.12.11 0637.07
    Originally posted by rockstar
    The Constitution says this:

    Art. 1, Sec. 8, Clause 8: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts
But you left off the full text:

Clause 8: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries

So that's not the full text.

    Originally posted by Stilton
    Plus, it'll give those responsible an opportunity to spin their initiative with words like "intrepid" and "hero" and "human spirit" and such. People love that. The emperors of Rome knew it: when the people don't know what to think, give them bread and circuses. Well, at least in this case, the circus will do just fine on its own, since it doesn't look like any of the bread is going to make its way to the people.
That's impressive drivel even from you....
Dahak
Frankfurter
Level: 59

Posts: 543/772
EXP: 1669950
For next: 3188

Since: 12.5.02
From: Junction City OR.

Since last post: 3540 days
Last activity: 3193 days
#10 Posted on 7.12.04 0805.47
Reposted on: 7.12.11 0812.05
Fine Stilton I believe that.
But I agree there is very little point to sending people to Mars. Now setting up Lagrange space stations and the asteroid belt has some point to it but your right Mars is just a PR gimmick.
rockstar
Salami
Level: 35

Posts: 212/229
EXP: 272678
For next: 7260

Since: 2.1.02
From: East TN

Since last post: 5082 days
Last activity: 4960 days
#11 Posted on 7.12.04 1123.36
Reposted on: 7.12.11 1129.01
    Originally posted by Grimis
    Originally posted by rockstar
    The Constitution says this:

    Art. 1, Sec. 8, Clause 8: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts
But you left off the full text...


I know that Forest. The sentence after that explains the joke.

(edited by rockstar on 7.12.04 1226)
DrDirt
Banger
Level: 101

Posts: 1294/2743
EXP: 10699867
For next: 17845

Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

Since last post: 416 days
Last activity: 318 days
#12 Posted on 7.12.04 1159.09
Reposted on: 7.12.11 1159.55
    Originally posted by Stilton
    As far as I can tell, the reasons to send a human being to Mars instead of more robots (which can do more work, collect more data, and stay there longer for a lot less money) boils down to one thing: higher TV ratings.

    Plus, it'll give those responsible an opportunity to spin their initiative with words like "intrepid" and "hero" and "human spirit" and such. People love that. The emperors of Rome knew it: when the people don't know what to think, give them bread and circuses. Well, at least in this case, the circus will do just fine on its own, since it doesn't look like any of the bread is going to make its way to the people.


    (edited by Stilton on 7.12.04 0002)


This is in no way meant to be disrespectful, however, I disagree. If you cannot understand the reasons/motives for wanting humans on Mars, there is something missing from your outlook that I don't know how to give you. Suffice it to say that when I was in jr high and Apollo 11 landed on the moon, it was one of the most magical, moving, inspiring events that I have ever witnessed.

This goal is one of many that throughout history have been responsible for much of the progress we have made.
bash91
Merguez
Level: 58

Posts: 331/711
EXP: 1491744
For next: 85811

Since: 2.1.02
From: Bossier City, LA

Since last post: 2313 days
Last activity: 171 days
#13 Posted on 7.12.04 1226.20
Reposted on: 7.12.11 1228.22
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    This is in no way meant to be disrespectful, however, I disagree. If you cannot understand the reasons/motives for wanting humans on Mars, there is something missing from your outlook that I don't know how to give you. Suffice it to say that when I was in jr high and Apollo 11 landed on the moon, it was one of the most magical, moving, inspiring events that I have ever witnessed.
    This goal is one of many that throughout history have been responsible for much of the progress we have made.


Doc, I couldn't agree more. However, rather than me trying to explain the desire to go to Mars, I'd rather use the words of one of the greatest poets ever to grace the English language.

Tim

The Explorer
Rudyard Kipling
“THERE’S no sense in going further—it’s the edge of cultivation,”
So they said, and I believed it—broke my land and sowed my crop—
Built my barns and strung my fences in the little border station
Tucked away below the foothills where the trails run out and stop.
Till a voice, as bad as Conscience, rang interminable change
On one everlasting Whisper day and night repeated—so
“Something hidden. Go and find it. Go and look behin the Ranges—
“Something lost behind the Ranges. Lost and waiting fc you. Go!”

So I went, worn out of patience; never told my nearest neighbours—
Stole away with pack and ponies-left ’em drinking in the town;
And the faith that moveth mountains didn’t seem to help my labours
As I faced the sheer main-ranges, whipping up and leading down.

March by march I puzzled through ’em, turning flanks and dodging shoulders,
Hurried on in hope of water, headed back for lack of grass;
Till I camped above the tree-line-drifted snow and naked boulders—
Felt free air astir to windward—knew I’d stumbled on the Pass.

’Thought to name it for the finder: but that night the Norther found me—
Froze and killed the plains-bred ponies; so I called the camp Despair
(It’s the Railway Gap to-day, though). Then my Whisper waked to hound me:—
“Something lost behind the Ranges. Over yonder! Go you there!”

Then I knew, the while I doubted—knew His Hand was certain o’er me.
Still—it might be self-delusion—scores of better men had died—
I could reach the township living, but . . . He knows what terror tore me . . .
But I didn’t . . . but I didn’t. I went down the other side,

Till the snow ran out in flowers, and the flowers turned to aloes,
And the aloes sprung to thickets and a brimming stream ran by;
But the thickets dwined to thorn-scrub, and the water drained to shallows,
And I dropped again on desert—blasted earth, and blasting sky . . . .

I remember lighting fires; I remember sitting by ’em;
I remember seeing faces, hearing voices, through the smoke;
I remember they were fancy—for I threw a stone to try ’em.
“Something lost behind the Ranges” was the only word they spoke.

I remember going crazy. I remember that I knew it
When I heard myself hallooing to the funny folk I saw.
’Very full of dreams that desert, but my two legs took me through it . . .
And I used to watch ’em moving with the toes all black and raw.

But at last the country altered—White Man’s country past disputing
Rolling grass and open timber, with a hint of hills behind—
There I found me food and water, and I lay a week recruiting.
Got my strength and lost my nightmares. Then I entered on my find.

Thence I ran my first rough survey—chose my trees and blazed and ringed ’em—
Week by week I pried and sampled—week by week my findings grew.
Saul he went to look for donkeys, and by God he found a kingdom!
But by God, who sent His Whisper, I had struck the worth of two!

Up along the hostile mountains, where the hair-poised snowslide shivers—
Down and through the big fat marshes that the virgin ore-bed stains,
Till I heard the mile-wide mutterings of unimagined rivers,
And beyond the nameless timber saw illimitable plains!

’Plotted sites of future cities, traced the easy grades between ’em;
Watched unharnessed rapids wasting fifty thousand head an hour;
Counted leagues of water-frontage through the axe-ripe woods that screen ’em—
Saw the plant to feed a people—up and waiting for the power!

Well I know who’ll take the credit—all the clever chaps that followed—
Came, a dozen men together—never knew my desert-fears;
Tracked me by the camps I’d quitted, used the water-holes I’d hollowed.
They’ll go back and do the talking. They’ll be called the Pioneers!

They will find my sites of townships—not the cities that I set there.
They will rediscover rivers—not my rivers heard at night.
By my own old marks and bearings they will show me how to get there,
By the lonely cairns I builded they will guide my feet aright.

Have I named one single river? Have I claimed one single acre?
Have I kept one single nugget—(barring samples)? No, not I!
Because my price was paid me ten times over by my Maker.
But you wouldn’t understand it. You go up and occupy.

Ores you’ll find there; wood and cattle; water-transit sure and steady
(That should keep the railway rates down), coal and iron at your doors.
God took care to hide that country till He judged His people ready,
Then He chose me for His Whisper, and I’ve found it, anti it’s yours!

Yes, your “Never-never country”—yes, your “edge of cultivation “
And “no sense in going further”—till I crossed the range to see.
God forgive me! No, I didn’t. It’s God’s present to our nation.
Anybody might have found it but—His Whisper came to Me!
rockstar
Salami
Level: 35

Posts: 213/229
EXP: 272678
For next: 7260

Since: 2.1.02
From: East TN

Since last post: 5082 days
Last activity: 4960 days
#14 Posted on 7.12.04 1316.57
Reposted on: 7.12.11 1318.22
This is lunacy. Stilton makes a valid point about manned missions to Mars being distractions from realistic problems and people are tripping over themselves to reassure their notions of human spirit.

I agree with what Grimis says about needing a backup plan, but I know he doesn't actually believe that; it's just the easiest way to explain the schizophrenia of his party's attitude toward government spending. And I like the idea of space exploration, because it furthers our understanding of stuff and that's NEVER a bad thing. It's all good, but that's not the issue.

Yes, it's fantastic that we can get to space and come back alive (most of the time). It's great when we, as humans, do things like living through trips outside of our own atmosphere to other heavenly bodies because it is inspiring to future generations. We look back 35 years and say "hey, they went to the moon, we should go to Mars," and that's a fine idea, but there are things on this planet that need solving now.
DrDirt
Banger
Level: 101

Posts: 1295/2743
EXP: 10699867
For next: 17845

Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

Since last post: 416 days
Last activity: 318 days
#15 Posted on 8.12.04 1328.29
Reposted on: 8.12.11 1329.01
    Originally posted by rockstar
    This is lunacy. Stilton makes a valid point about manned missions to Mars being distractions from realistic problems and people are tripping over themselves to reassure their notions of human spirit.


It is not a "distraction" and further, Mars missons don't need to distract anyone from other problems. I am not trying to reassure anyone re the human spirit. I am trying to say that there is a need within us to achieve such things and we are poorer if we don't.
spf
Scrapple
Level: 138

Posts: 3047/5410
EXP: 31308998
For next: 354062

Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 1140 days
Last activity: 14 days
AIM:  
#16 Posted on 8.12.04 1610.20
Reposted on: 8.12.11 1610.20
    Originally posted by DrDirt
      Originally posted by rockstar
      This is lunacy. Stilton makes a valid point about manned missions to Mars being distractions from realistic problems and people are tripping over themselves to reassure their notions of human spirit.


    It is not a "distraction" and further, Mars missons don't need to distract anyone from other problems. I am not trying to reassure anyone re the human spirit. I am trying to say that there is a need within us to achieve such things and we are poorer if we don't.

That's beautiful. I just find it funny that the same people who pretty much say any other dream of the human spirit should be dealt with by private industry would all of a sudden feel that THIS one is so vital to the national psyche as to devote enough money to subsidize mass transit in major cities for a decade (and thus help cut some of the pollution we'd be running from) in order to go after an untested and rather scientifically unsound idea.
Stilton
Frankfurter
Level: 59

Posts: 482/793
EXP: 1644783
For next: 28355

Since: 7.2.04
From: Canada

Since last post: 4698 days
Last activity: 4697 days
#17 Posted on 8.12.04 2238.14
Reposted on: 8.12.11 2238.20
    Originally posted by DrDirt
      Originally posted by rockstar
      This is lunacy. Stilton makes a valid point about manned missions to Mars being distractions from realistic problems and people are tripping over themselves to reassure their notions of human spirit.


    It is not a "distraction" and further, Mars missons don't need to distract anyone from other problems. I am not trying to reassure anyone re the human spirit. I am trying to say that there is a need within us to achieve such things and we are poorer if we don't.


I don't dispute the deeply symbolic urge to reach for the stars. I don't dispute the implications on the majesty of human dignity and the need for heroes and all that. I feel it, too. I feel the need to believe that human beings are capable of achieving more than they've already achieved. I feel the need to believe that we have a future.

And I don't dispute that a human being going to Mars will go along way toward boosting the morale of our species. Is it a distraction? Well, yes it is. And, no it isn't.

Yes it is, because it WILL distract from a lot of what's wrong here on Earth. The first man on Mars WILL be the story of the century, and everything else will fade in its shadow.

And no it isn't, because such a feat will surely have its own worth. A human being should walk on Mars...at some point.

I just think there's a right way and a wrong way. And I think there's a right time and a wrong time.

And this is the wrong way. And this is the wrong time.

It's the wrong way, and the wrong time, for many reasons. Not the least of which is that the plan seems rushed. There is much work to be done not only in the field of martian science--there is much we do not understand about the planet. There is also much work to be done in the field of interplanetary travel--we still need to know much more about alternative propulsion technologies and the effects prolonged space travel will have on the human body. We shouldn't be planning the trip without having all the needed science in hand.

As it stands, I think the Moon-Mars program is sensationalistic, needlessly costly (at this juncture), and ridiculously unsafe. We, as a species, are just not ready for it.

(edited by Stilton on 8.12.04 2348)
DrDirt
Banger
Level: 101

Posts: 1296/2743
EXP: 10699867
For next: 17845

Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

Since last post: 416 days
Last activity: 318 days
#18 Posted on 9.12.04 1019.52
Reposted on: 9.12.11 1021.34

Spf, I don't think that other dreams are the domain of private industry, however, public-private partnerships are great.

And NASA and mass transit funding need not canabalize each other. If people in this country really wanted mass transit, it would happen. They don't (right now) and so it won't happen anytime soon.

And I'm curious, aren't most ideas untested before you test them?

(edited by DrDirt on 9.12.04 1021)
spf
Scrapple
Level: 138

Posts: 3048/5410
EXP: 31308998
For next: 354062

Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 1140 days
Last activity: 14 days
AIM:  
#19 Posted on 9.12.04 1053.28
Reposted on: 9.12.11 1053.41
    Originally posted by DrDirt

    Spf, I don't think that other dreams are the domain of private industry, however, public-private partnerships are great

But according to the philosophy of those in power right now they're supposed to be out of the hands of government, since in every area except this one somehow government impedes progress and innovation. And usually there is also a sense that government is only supposed to be doing limited things that the founders of the country envisioned for it. So I'll grant that you might not think that way, but it seems like the people running things claim to think that way except here.

Also, most ideas are untested until tested, but they are able to be far more based on good accepted science.

And as for mass transit...as one of the hundreds of thousands of folks here in Chicago about to lose my only safe way home after 10pm due to budget failings with the CTA...I'm a bit huffy that we can pay to send someone to Mars but that I'm going to have to go buy a car to get home from school at night. But then I'm also pissed that we can earmark 4.3 billion to Iraqi infrastructure when our cities are still in shit shape.

DrDirt
Banger
Level: 101

Posts: 1298/2743
EXP: 10699867
For next: 17845

Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

Since last post: 416 days
Last activity: 318 days
#20 Posted on 9.12.04 1243.27
Reposted on: 9.12.11 1244.14
    Originally posted by spf
      Originally posted by DrDirt

      Spf, I don't think that other dreams are the domain of private industry, however, public-private partnerships are great

    But according to the philosophy of those in power right now they're supposed to be out of the hands of government, since in every area except this one somehow government impedes progress and innovation. And usually there is also a sense that government is only supposed to be doing limited things that the founders of the country envisioned for it. So I'll grant that you might not think that way, but it seems like the people running things claim to think that way except here.

    Also, most ideas are untested until tested, but they are able to be far more based on good accepted science.

    And as for mass transit...as one of the hundreds of thousands of folks here in Chicago about to lose my only safe way home after 10pm due to budget failings with the CTA...I'm a bit huffy that we can pay to send someone to Mars but that I'm going to have to go buy a car to get home from school at night. But then I'm also pissed that we can earmark 4.3 billion to Iraqi infrastructure when our cities are still in shit shape.




Spf, in order. The people in power really don't believe what they say and I think most of us know it. Remember, the spending over the last four years makes Clinton look like a Goldwater Conservative. They simply define who needs help differently (note sarcasm.
I agree that mass transit is a good thing and if it were available where I live, I would use it. But the money for Mars and NASA aren't connected. If this money weren't to be spent on Mars, it wouldn't go for mass transit.
Pages: 1 2 NextThread ahead: Canada racist?
Next thread: Talking Presidents...collect them all!
Previous thread: This much closer to judgement day?
(843 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
The 7 - Current Events & Politics - I Guess Pigs Fly In SpaceRegister and log in to post!

The W™ message board - 7 year recycle

ZimBoard
©2001-2018 Brothers Zim
This old hunk of junk rendered your page in 0.102 seconds.