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Bizzle Izzle
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#1 Posted on 11.3.03 0921.34
Reposted on: 11.3.10 0929.02
Antiwar protesters trash 9/11 memorial - Click Here (whittierdailynews.com)

You anti-war peaceniks have some real winners on your side. These people make me want to vomit.
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OlFuzzyBastard
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#2 Posted on 11.3.03 0951.00
Reposted on: 11.3.10 0952.11
I'll do you a favor, because that was the slowest site on the face of the earth:

Antiwar protesters trash 9/11 memorial
American flags burned and slashed
By Debbie Pfeiffer Trunnell, Staff Writer


LA HABRA -- Antiwar protesters burned and ripped up flags, flowers and patriotic signs at a Sept. 11 memorial that residents erected on a fence along Whittier Boulevard days after the terrorist attacks in 2001 and have maintained ever since.

However, although officers witnessed the vandalism Saturday afternoon, police did not arrest three people seen damaging the display because they were "exercising the same freedom of speech that the people who put up the flags were,' La Habra Police Capt. John Rees said Monday.

"For this to be vandalism, there had to be an ill-will intent,' he said.

Rees said in order for police to take any action, the owner of the fence would have to file a complaint.

Jeff Collison, owner of The RV Center in La Habra, who has allowed residents to add patriotic symbols to the fence on his property, said he just might do that.

"Their free speech stops at destruction of private property. If they are allowed to come on my property and burn flags, does that mean I can go to City Hall or the police station and light their flags on fire because that is freedom of speech? To me, this is vandalism,' Collison said.

Some residents Monday hung signs criticizing those who destroyed the display.

Tracey Chandler, a Whittier mother of four who has maintained the spontaneous memorial since it was created by other area residents soon after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, said she was shocked by the destruction.

"They trashed 87 flags, ripped 11 memorial tiles made by myself and my children out of the ground and glued the Bob Dylan song to a sign that said, 'America, land of the brave, home of the free,' ' she said.

The Bob Dylan song she referred to is "With God on Our Side,' an antiwar anthem of the 1960s.

"It's unbelievable, because there were absolutely no political messages on this fence. It was all about supporting our troops, which could mean bringing them home, and about remembering 9-11.'

Les Howard, a sociology professor at Whittier College, said the incident might be an indication of some confusion among people trying to stop a possible war against Iraq but uncertain how to express their sentiments. However, he said he does not condone the destruction of symbols important to those who erect them.

"Some think (the best way to support the troops) is to not question their role. Some think the best way is to pursue all means possible to avoid putting them in danger,' he said. "That still does not excuse any desecration of people's symbolic participation.'

Chandler said she plans to rebuild the Sept. 11 memorial.

"We are going to rebuild this memorial, and it will be brighter, bigger and better than ever,' Chandler said.

...

Now, to me, it sounds a lot more like four morons than the blanket "you anti-war peaceniks", especially because one of the biggest points that the majority of the anti-war protesters, including myself, have been making is that this war completely cheapens the memory of those lost on 9/11. using the tragedy to push through a completely unrelated oil war and all-but ignoring those responsible.

These people are idiots. These people have no idea what in the hell they're talking about. But these people are speaking for no one but themselves.
CRZ
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#3 Posted on 11.3.03 0956.59
Reposted on: 11.3.10 0959.02

    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    "They trashed 87 flags, ripped 11 memorial tiles made by myself and my children out of the ground and glued the Bob Dylan song to a sign that said, 'America, land of the brave, home of the free,' ' she said.

    The Bob Dylan song she referred to is "With God on Our Side,' an antiwar anthem of the 1960s.

Uh oh! NOT DYLAN!!
redsoxnation
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#4 Posted on 11.3.03 1013.22
Reposted on: 11.3.10 1022.34
I think garbage needs an apology for being compared to these four sub pond scum lowlifes.
But; even though I have issues with the peace movement, I wouldn't lump these lowlifes in with them.
Grimis
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#5 Posted on 11.3.03 1045.11
Reposted on: 11.3.10 1046.47
I'm not gonna lump them in with the rest of the boneheads, but here is what really fries my oyster.


    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    However, although officers witnessed the vandalism Saturday afternoon, police did not arrest three people seen damaging the display because they were "exercising the same freedom of speech that the people who put up the flags were,' La Habra Police Capt. John Rees said Monday.

    "For this to be vandalism, there had to be an ill-will intent,' he said.


I didn't know that the framers had destruction of property when they wrote up the First Amendment.
Dexley's Midnight Jogger
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#6 Posted on 11.3.03 1143.21
Reposted on: 11.3.10 1146.44
This isn't exactly related, but it did remind me of something I saw Friday while at a red light. A man of around 50 was on the street corner holding a sign that said "War is not the answer". He wasn't saying anything and was barely moving for that matter. Suddenly another man ran up and threw his sign down and stood on it. When the protester tried to leave, the new man blocked his path and continued yelling at him. Just as my light turned green, a third man joined the second in harrassing the protester.

As I drove off, I felt like a coward. No matter how I feel about the war that is upcoming, I wanted to make sure this man was safe. I could have at least opened my car door and offered a quick way out of there, but I just drove off.

Sorry for taking this a little off the subject.
Karlos the Jackal
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#7 Posted on 11.3.03 1505.25
Reposted on: 11.3.10 1509.16

    Originally posted by Dexley's Midnight Jogger
    This isn't exactly related, but it did remind me of something I saw Friday while at a red light. A man of around 50 was on the street corner holding a sign that said "War is not the answer". He wasn't saying anything and was barely moving for that matter. Suddenly another man ran up and threw his sign down and stood on it. When the protester tried to leave, the new man blocked his path and continued yelling at him. Just as my light turned green, a third man joined the second in harrassing the protester.


Wow, you pro-war folks have some real winners on your side. These people make me want to vomit.

--K
Bizzle Izzle
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#8 Posted on 11.3.03 1520.13
Reposted on: 11.3.10 1522.46

    Originally posted by Karlos the Jackal

      Originally posted by Dexley's Midnight Jogger
      This isn't exactly related, but it did remind me of something I saw Friday while at a red light. A man of around 50 was on the street corner holding a sign that said "War is not the answer". He wasn't saying anything and was barely moving for that matter. Suddenly another man ran up and threw his sign down and stood on it. When the protester tried to leave, the new man blocked his path and continued yelling at him. Just as my light turned green, a third man joined the second in harrassing the protester.


    Wow, you pro-war folks have some real winners on your side. These people make me want to vomit.

    --K



Because there's just no difference between getting in someone's face and yelling, and desecrating a 9/11 memorial and trashing 87 American flags. Nope, NO difference at all.
cranlsn
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#9 Posted on 11.3.03 1528.06
Reposted on: 11.3.10 1529.01

    Originally posted by Bizzle Izzle

      Originally posted by Karlos the Jackal

        Originally posted by Dexley's Midnight Jogger
        This isn't exactly related, but it did remind me of something I saw Friday while at a red light. A man of around 50 was on the street corner holding a sign that said "War is not the answer". He wasn't saying anything and was barely moving for that matter. Suddenly another man ran up and threw his sign down and stood on it. When the protester tried to leave, the new man blocked his path and continued yelling at him. Just as my light turned green, a third man joined the second in harrassing the protester.


      Wow, you pro-war folks have some real winners on your side. These people make me want to vomit.

      --K



    Because there's just no difference between getting in someone's face and yelling, and desecrating a 9/11 memorial and trashing 87 American flags. Nope, NO difference at all.



Careful there...

I think we can all agree that both of these actions are indefensible, and probably not representative of the views of either group. I have just as big a problem with the vandals as I do with the guys hassling the protestor, even though I don't agree with him.

If the guy was doing nothing but having his own simple protest there was absolutely no reason for harassing the poor bastard. Same goes for the Memorial...there was no reason what-so-ever for desecrating mourner's personal effects...free speech my ass.

Dexley's Midnight Jogger
Pepperoni
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#10 Posted on 11.3.03 1538.42
Reposted on: 11.3.10 1538.53
Just to clarify, I don't believe that the angry man I wrote about earlier represents every pro-war person. Same with the protestor. I've seen passive and agressive attitudes on both sides of the fence.
Karlos the Jackal
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#11 Posted on 11.3.03 1602.43
Reposted on: 11.3.10 1602.47

    Originally posted by Bizzle Izzle

      Originally posted by Karlos the Jackal

        Originally posted by Dexley's Midnight Jogger
        This isn't exactly related, but it did remind me of something I saw Friday while at a red light. A man of around 50 was on the street corner holding a sign that said "War is not the answer". He wasn't saying anything and was barely moving for that matter. Suddenly another man ran up and threw his sign down and stood on it. When the protester tried to leave, the new man blocked his path and continued yelling at him. Just as my light turned green, a third man joined the second in harrassing the protester.


      Wow, you pro-war folks have some real winners on your side. These people make me want to vomit.

      --K



    Because there's just no difference between getting in someone's face and yelling, and desecrating a 9/11 memorial and trashing 87 American flags. Nope, NO difference at all.



So you're saying, because the 9/11 memorial trashing is a worse offense, that those people are more typical examples of "their side?" Or -- wait, what are you saying?

--K
messenoir
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#12 Posted on 12.3.03 2330.18
Reposted on: 12.3.10 2330.20
Here in Columbia, we have Peace is Patriotic signs. Unknown people are constantly ripping these signs out of yards. I've had 3 or 4 pro-peace bumperstickers ripped of my truck. I've been physically threatened, told I'm a traiter, told to go suck Sadaam's dick, been given the middle finger, told I should get a job, had a car swerve to hit me as I was standing on the corner.

Several people in the peace movement have been spit on during marches, we have some local Republican radio host directly quoted in the newspaper as saying our local peace organizer needs to take a shower, smells bad and needs to get a real job (though they'd never met). At a pro-troop rally, a bunch of us pro-peace people went, and we were insulted, belittled and felt intense hatred by a select few people at an event that was supposedly supposed to be about love and caring for troops who might die.

We had one guy stop at the corner while we were out and proceed to tell the women holding signs they knew nothing and only men knew about real life. He then proceeded to tell the women they should go back to cooking and cleaning.

Several local arabic restaurants have had windows broken, the words traiter and terrorist written on the windows, the owners have been spit on, Arabic flags have been desecrated, racial slurs have been hurled from passing cars.

So yes, you pro-war people have some real winners on your side.

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#13 Posted on 13.3.03 1051.14
Reposted on: 13.3.10 1052.15
This thread has certainly degenerated into a bunch of name-calling...

I think we can all agree that both sides have their share of wackos. Can't we also agree that the wackos cross the line? Instead, we are treated to a pissing contest entitled "Your freaks are worse."
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#14 Posted on 13.3.03 1103.24
Reposted on: 13.3.10 1106.28

    Originally posted by Bizzle Izzle
    Because there's just no difference between getting in someone's face and yelling, and desecrating a 9/11 memorial and trashing 87 American flags. Nope, NO difference at all.


Are you saying that human life is just as important as a piece of papre or cloth? This is ridiculous. The man's life was at risk. Those idiots could have beat the protester up, you know, physical bodily harm, yet you are saying that is ONLY 'just as bad' as ripping up a sign or burning a flag.
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#15 Posted on 13.3.03 1110.56
Reposted on: 13.3.10 1111.40


    Several people in the peace movement have been spit on during marches


I am in the military. I am not for this war (im not legally supposed to say that), but when I go to the mall in my uniform for lunch and I have stones thrown at me and I am spat on, it kinda makes me wish i was on the front lines shooting the "enemy" myself. This goes both ways, the protesters and the pro-war people. They all need to stop and look what they are doing.
dMr
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#16 Posted on 13.3.03 1116.25
Reposted on: 13.3.10 1116.52

    Originally posted by Pool-Boy
    This thread has certainly degenerated into a bunch of name-calling...

    I think we can all agree that both sides have their share of wackos. Can't we also agree that the wackos cross the line? Instead, we are treated to a pissing contest entitled "Your freaks are worse."



Sweet Jesus times must be strange when I find myself agreeing whole-heartedly with Pool-Boy in th politics forum.
At the end of the day some folks are tits. Not all of these tits are on the same side of the political divide. To argue that one side has more or bigger tools than the other is frankly dumb.

Just learn to acknowledge the fuckwitedness of these people, condemn them and move on. Life's a whole lot easier when you do.
Karlos the Jackal
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#17 Posted on 14.3.03 0441.15
Reposted on: 14.3.10 0442.27
At the risk of having CRZ castigate me for "feeling the love," I agree with Pool-Boy, too.

--K
Stephanie
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#18 Posted on 16.3.03 0320.09
Reposted on: 16.3.10 0322.42
Sigh.

It's depressing how little respect the American flag gets these days. At one time, someone caught destroying a flag would have been run out of town and/or beaten within an inch of his life. Now, not even the police will lift a finger to prevent the destruction of 87 flags.

Never mind that we could have defeated Iraq three times over by now.

Steph
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#19 Posted on 16.3.03 1504.22
Reposted on: 16.3.10 1505.43

    Originally posted by Stephanie
    Sigh.

    It's depressing how little respect the American flag gets these days. At one time, someone caught destroying a flag would have been run out of town and/or beaten within an inch of his life. Now, not even the police will lift a finger to prevent the destruction of 87 flags.

    Never mind that we could have defeated Iraq three times over by now.

    Steph



This is taken from the book "Our Flag" published in 1989 by the House of Representatives...
_______________

"On July 4, 1776, the Continental Congress passed a resolution authorizing a committee to devise a seal for the United States of America. This mission, designed to reflect the Founding Fathers' beliefs, values, and sovereignty of the new Nation, did not become a reality until June 20, 1782. In heraldic devices, such as seals, each element has a specific meaning. Even colors have specific meanings. The colors red, white, and blue did not have meanings for The Stars and Stripes when it was adopted in 1777. However, the colors in the Great Seal did have specific meanings. Charles Thompson, Secretary of the Continental Congress, reporting to Congress on the Seal, stated:

"The colors of the pales (the vertical stripes) are those used in the flag of the United States of America; White signifies purity and innocence, Red, hardiness & valour, and Blue, the color of the Chief (the broad band above the stripes) signifies vigilance, perseverance & justice."

Also this from a book about the flag published in 1977 by the House of Representatives...

"The star is a symbol of the heavens and the divine goal to which man has aspired from time immemorial; the stripe is symbolic of the rays of light emanating from the sun."
_______________

I have two thoughts on this comment of yours.

YES, you are correct. There was a time when people would have been beaten or severely punished for destroying the american flag. during times like these, perhaps we should put our collective faith behind a symbol of freedom and strength and justice.

NO, you are wrong. White stands for innocence. After the many wars we have been through, Civil War, WWI & II, Vietnam, Korea, and everything that's happened as of 9/11, we are NOT 'innocent'. Red stands for hardiness and valour.

hardiness (noun) - 1. the property of strong in constitution

valour (noun) - 1. the qualities of a hero or heroine; exceptional or heroic courage when facing danger (especially in battle)

I can go for the hardiness, but valour is questionable at this point when we start blaming everyone else but ourselves for what has happened to us. Blue stands for our chief, our presidency. GWBush, Clinton, GBush sr., Reagan, Carter, Ford. Can anyone honestly say that our past presidents have deserved our recognition. I descending order, you got a fraud/puppet, a lying thieving bastard, a lying spook, another puppet, an idiot, and a buffoon. I have not yet in my lifetime seen a president I personally can say that I have been behind and stood for yet.

We as a collective have become slow, fat, ignorant, and lazy. The US has the worst education system, we eat shit that is bad for us and don't take care of ourselves, and we don't care about what is happening in the world around us unless it directly concerns US.

Our forefathers fought tooth and nail for that flag, they wholeheartedly believed in what it stood for. What have WE done for it?
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