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The 7 - Print - Flashpoint and a DC Universe Reboot?
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John Orquiola
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#1 Posted on 26.5.11 1300.53
Reposted on: 26.5.18 1301.20
I only learned about Flashpoint last night was directed to this article on IGN:

http://comics.ign.com/articles/117/1170518p1.html

Rumor has it the DC Universe is rebooting in September, with every book releasing as issue #1. While the idea of YET ANOTHER DCU reboot after Infinite Crisis and Final Crisis in the past 5-6 years sounds ridiculous to me, starting over entirely (if that's what they're doing) actually intrigues me. I really haven't been able to crack DCU continuity, or much wanted to, in the last few years. Starting anew, however, sounds pretty good to me. It doesn't sound like this is an "Ultimate" universe either, but the actual DCU proper is starting over (if that's what they're doing).

Anyone read Flashpoint and have insight to share about what's happening in the DCU currently?
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lotjx
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#2 Posted on 26.5.11 1347.16
Reposted on: 26.5.18 1347.20
I was going to get it for free comic book day, but passed. I am BIG EVENT out. I guess we get an Amazon/Atlantian war after Aquaman tidal waves Europe and parts of America. I would imagine others are involved as well. There is a map somewhere outlining the devastation which looks to be the only cool thing so far. Blackest Night was the high point of Big Events and while Brightest Day wasn't as good as Blackest Night, it was still good with a great ending. Swamp Thing and Hellblazer are back and in the DCU.

Rebooting the DCU for the 100th time is not going to help matters. They need to stop with the big events for awhile and tell stories about the characters. Do events with the characters instead of jamming them all in. I guess a lot of this is Barry wanting everything to go back to the old days, so its more like Zero Hero where Barry is in Hal's role. I just hope they don't use lame characters like Waverider and Monarch again or something for their ilk.

I can maybe understand to reboot Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman and a few others mainly due to the JMS and Morrison really putting the screws to those characters. Yet, there is no reason to reboot the Green Lantern books or Flash or Green Arrow even if they are getting boring. I hope its not like Ultimate, a Chinese Jim Gordon, because a writer or artist is a huge Jet Li fan. Yuck!
It's False
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#3 Posted on 26.5.11 1411.54
Reposted on: 26.5.18 1412.04
I've followed the characters for many years and have been reluctant to jump off, just because I want to see their ongoing adventures. But if they're rebooting the whole shebang, then that means I'm out. I'm not up for a totally clean slate.

Having said that, I doubt they'd do that. Though the fact that they're tying everything up in August is a little curious.
samoflange
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#4 Posted on 26.5.11 1417.54
Reposted on: 26.5.18 1417.57
Sounds cool. I don't follow anything in issues anyway, just pick up trades I hear are good, so if it means there will be more good things to read, I'm all for it. Complaining about continuity is one of the most annoying things about comics fans, in my humble opinion.
John Orquiola
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#5 Posted on 26.5.11 1420.32
Reposted on: 26.5.18 1420.41
    Originally posted by samoflange
    Sounds cool. I don't follow anything in issues anyway, just pick up trades I hear are good, so if it means there will be more good things to read, I'm all for it. Complaining about continuity is one of the most annoying things about comics fans, in my humble opinion.


This is how I feel. I'm well past the point of caring about continuity. "Which story really happened?" Well, none of it really happened.

Having said that, I'd be super pissed if I were buying and following continuity every month. The plan, if it is the plan, sounds like a thorough fucking over of their diehard readerss.
lotjx
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#6 Posted on 26.5.11 1427.27
Reposted on: 26.5.18 1427.37
Continuity in comics is a two edge sword. Big Events in a character's back log are cool to remember and they should help evolve a character or set the foundation for the character. On the other hand, I can understand the writers, artists and editors getting sick to death at conventions answering every fanboy question on why this line in a 1980 Detective Comics book counters what was said in a 2001 Batman book. Two books no one that on that panel worked on in any shape or form. Shit like that could get annoying quick. Still, you need past stories like Death of Superman, Killing Joke, Emerald Dawn, Kraven's Last Hunt, Days of Future Past and others to be remembered mainly to how big they were.

Personally, I would love just a good Justice League book without too many C and D level players and a lot of character interaction. As well as Batman book without Morrison would be swell too. Wonder Woman and Superman can only get better after JMS leaves.

(edited by lotjx on 26.5.11 1428)
samoflange
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#7 Posted on 26.5.11 1434.18
Reposted on: 26.5.18 1434.24
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    Having said that, I'd be super pissed if I were buying and following continuity every month. The plan, if it is the plan, sounds like a thorough fucking over of their diehard readerss.


Diehard fans of anything are always going to be pissed at something and only way to solve that is for them to get a few more hobbies.
odessasteps
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#8 Posted on 26.5.11 1509.23
Reposted on: 26.5.18 1509.24

The new regime has so damaged the DCU for me that I went from buying 10-20 DCU books a month to none, with the occasional flip through some stuff in the store and a rare TPB read at Borders.

The thing I bought was The Knight and Squire mini. I think Batgirl is a well-written book, but still don't want to buy.
dMp
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#9 Posted on 26.5.11 1556.49
Reposted on: 26.5.18 1556.52
I haven't followed this but does the reboot mean everything publishes so far is forgotten and everyone's going back to their origin (so..we get to see Superman crash in Smallville again, etc?) or is it simply 'we go back to point X (2-3 years ago) and continue.
Like...isn't there a storyline where Batman creates some worldwide Bat franchise? Is that being canceled/forgotten?

It sounds..terrible. It reminds me of Spidey & brand new day.
Something that people will definitely go nuts about.

At least the Ultimate universe was a different world -next- to the existing universes.
It's False
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#10 Posted on 26.5.11 1642.11
Reposted on: 26.5.18 1642.11
    Originally posted by dMp
    Like...isn't there a storyline where Batman creates some worldwide Bat franchise? Is that being canceled/forgotten?


That's Batman Incorporated and that brings up an interesting point.

Guys like Grant Morrison and Geoff Johns have stories they want to tell that'll likely span a few years. Morrison has Batman stories and a whole mythology he wants to build with the Batman Inc. storyline. Johns has an entire post-War of the Green Lanterns arc he wants to write. If you suddenly blow everything up and start over, you're essentially brushing off some of your best writers. Does DC really want to run the risk of angering some of the better writers?

For the sake of the JLI ongoing that's still supposedly on the table, I'm hoping there's no reboot.
Mr. Boffo
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#11 Posted on 26.5.11 1723.36
Reposted on: 26.5.18 1723.49
Reboots are to some extant inevitable with a creative endeavor that has been going continuously for a certain amount of time.

I believe I heard that the famous "Luke and Laura" of General Hospital had a storyline wherein he raped her, making their later courtship seem rather unlikely. In wrestling you might call it the "Undertaker/Kane Conundrum". Undertaker and Kane are alternately feuding together and teaming together with only the barest of reasoning given.

DC Universe reboots date all the way back to the '50s, when they switched from mostly Earth-Two stories to mostly Earth-One stories, and took that opportunity to tweak the back stories. But there's a difference between getting away from the oppresion of decades of back story, and changing everything every three years. I think these frequent changes serve to only confuse the reader about what is or is not part of continuity anymore.
lotjx
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#12 Posted on 26.5.11 1741.33
Reposted on: 26.5.18 1741.42
I highly doubt they would change the origins of the major characters. That would cause a fan backlash, one of which we have never seen. I can see them using to align with the TV and movies. Bruce trains with the League of Shadows, Chloe from Smallville comes in and Parallax is what happened to Abin Sur's ship. It would irk fans, but it will be an attempt to help the movies and TV fans that really never buy these things.

I am ok with Morrison's stuff being gone. Damian, RIP, Final Crisis and PC Global Batmen can all enter the abyss. They can take JMS' Wonder Woman with it. Yet, I can't see them destroying all of John's work with Rebirth to 52 to Brightest Day. Especially with Green Lantern the movie incorporating a lot of this.

I just wish my friend didn't quit/fire from his comic book store, I had to tell my comic book owner about this. I really need to think about going to subscriptions.
John Orquiola
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#13 Posted on 26.5.11 1752.19
Reposted on: 26.5.18 1752.20
    Originally posted by It's False
    Guys like Grant Morrison and Geoff Johns have stories they want to tell that'll likely span a few years. Morrison has Batman stories and a whole mythology he wants to build with the Batman Inc. storyline. Johns has an entire post-War of the Green Lanterns arc he wants to write. If you suddenly blow everything up and start over, you're essentially brushing off some of your best writers. Does DC really want to run the risk of angering some of the better writers?


Geoff Johns is the creative VP of DC Entertainment (or his title is something like that) and I believe he's one of the architects and writers of Flashpoint, so... he's playing a key creative role in whatever the Master Plan is.

I'll say this: I'm interested in whatever DC's actually up to. So that's something.

Now to find myself a copy of Flashpoint #1...
John Orquiola
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#14 Posted on 27.5.11 0903.53
Reposted on: 27.5.18 0904.01
I read Flashpoint #1. It was okay.


Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
My friend spoiled Thomas Wayne as Batman for me. There's a line of dialogue that Batman is "older than I thought". I don't quite get the logistics of how Thomas Wayne, at his age when Bruce was killed, managed to accomplish the physical training to become Batman. It sounds like one of those "shocking" ideas that makes little sense under scrutiny. So fuck it, I won't scrutinize.

In terms of actual action, Flashpoint #1 was pretty sparse. Barry Allen remembers the DCU as it was but is repeatedly faced with the new reality: He's not the Flash, no one has ever heard of Superman (yet), there's no Justice League, Captain Citizen Cold is the hero of Central City, he's not married to Iris, his mom's alive, etc.

Cyborg and a bunch of villains, many I didn't recognize, try to recruit Batman to join them to prevent the Aquaman vs. Wonder Woman world war about to erupt. THAT stuff, that Aquaman sank Western Europe and Wonder Woman led the Amazons to conquer Great Britain, sounds really great. That's major stuff. But we see little of it in Flashpoint #1. It's just mentioned as backstory. The main story of the first issue is lean on actual action. The middle part of the book is a bunch of people/holograms standing on a rooftop in Gotham explaining shit to Batman/us.
Matt Tracker
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#15 Posted on 27.5.11 0948.04
Reposted on: 27.5.18 0948.17
DC could go the Heroes Reborn route ... except that's what Flashpoint already is: a temporary what-if for major franchises.

The notion of a two-man reboot committee for DCU is intriguing, and it challenges the Marvel summit formula for Big Events. But it feels like the same path DC walks. In fact, this kind of fresh veneer for the DCU seems to happen every few years, removing the novelty for me. The pitch behind new directions on major titles is of less interest than the creators announced for those books.

Dear DC: Snag Alan Davis and give him LSH or Superman or a catch-all for the DCU/Vertigo straddlers.
Scottyflamingo
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#16 Posted on 27.5.11 1444.51
Reposted on: 27.5.18 1444.52
Seems to me that Flashpoint is going to be DC's Age of Apocalypse. I fun little alternate reality story. Some minor continuity changes may stick, and maybe something major, but it won't be Crisis level.

And why does everyone always mention Final Crisis as a reboot? It didn't change any continuity. Actually I'm not sure what it was other than Morrison's typical masturbation.
lotjx
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#17 Posted on 27.5.11 1501.27
Reposted on: 27.5.18 1501.31
Final Crisis gets mentioned as a reboot due to the Miracle Machine and Superman is using it to reset a battered Earth. Although, you are right about Morrison. I would like to see an Age of Apocalypse story, but if Morrison is writing it expect the Seven Soldiers or random dudes from the 70s to be the stars. I trust Johns to do some cool stuff with it, but not Morrison. I would love to actually see them do a year where Superman is the bad guy who killed Lex and then took over. Not a Crime Syndicate thing, but where certain people are aligned with one another who normally won't be or characters that are bit on the darkside or in Bruce's case or someone like him a lightside say Riddler or Grodd.

Yet, if they go that route it can only be certain books that can be printed. I would also be hesitant to deal with the space stuff unless Starlin or Johns did it. Highfather kills Darkseid, the GL Corp is actually fugitives or criminals and the other colors are missing or destroyed. You could do a lot, but it can be easily unhinged if he showcase the wrong person to follow around ie Final Countdown.
John Orquiola
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#18 Posted on 31.5.11 1532.28
Reposted on: 31.5.18 1532.38
REBOOT! REBOOT! FULL DC UNIVERSE REBOOT!

All issue #1s across the line.

Justice League #1 by Geoff Johns and Jim Lee.

Read all about it:

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/DC-Universe-Reboot-Announcement-110531.html
thecubsfan
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#19 Posted on 31.5.11 1542.25
Reposted on: 31.5.18 1542.28
Storylines appear and revert...


    a revamp of their oft-rewritten 76 year-plus history


(Though the bit where they go "you thought *20* miniseries was too much, how does *50* #1s hit you!" is kind of awesome in it's bold insanity.)

This is actually the big news:


    Finally, DC also announced they plan to make all of their titles available for sale in digital format on the same day as their publlished counterparts, starting with Justice League #1. While the decision could probably be described as inevitable, the announcement will still likely be poorly received among some segments of "Direct Market" comic book retailers, whose stores account for the current backbone of monthly comic book sales.


Tipping point!

(edited by thecubsfan on 31.5.11 1545)
lotjx
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#20 Posted on 31.5.11 1546.37
Reposted on: 31.5.18 1546.38
Ugh! As anyone tried reading a comic book digitally? Awful. I fully expect Marvel to find a way to cash in on the Direct Market's hatred for this idea. Everything going to issue #1 is such a terrible idea, six weeks in I bet it goes back to the original numbers. JLA with Johns and Lee is pretty much what I hoped for, but dare not say out loud.
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