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Peter The Hegemon
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#1 Posted on 13.10.09 0213.26
Reposted on: 13.10.16 0213.26
With a couple days off from the playoffs as none of the series went five games, and with me anxious to wipe out the bad taste from my terrible job of predicting said series, I thought it would be a good time to talk about who should win the regular-season awards. These are not necessarily my predictions of who will win; they're whom I would vote for if I had a vote.


MVP:

NL: Albert Pujols, Cardinals

I don't see it going anywhere else.

AL: Joe Mauer, Twins

One can make a case for Mark Teixiera but I think it should and will go to Mauer. As an aside, I was watching a local (NY) sports-talk show a month or two ago and one of the guys on the panel complained that Tex deserved the MVP, but wouldn't get it because of what he termed anti-Yankee bias. Someone else asked how there can be anti-Yankee bias when A-Rod has already won it twice since coming to the Bronx, and was told that the bias means that a Yankee can only win the MVP if he has great numbers. Because, I guess, with other teams they just hand them out like lollipops at the barbershop.


Cy Young:

NL: Chris Carpenter, Cardinals

Lots of good pitchers in the NL right now, but I think Carpenter was the best.

AL: Felix Hernandez, Mariners

Tougher call here. At one point in the season it seemed like Roy Halladay would get it if he didn't get traded to the NL, but he faltered toward the end. Greinke had a better ERA than Hernandez but didn't win as much, although this of course is not unrelated to the fact that Greinke has to play with the Royals. Not that the Mariners are the '27 Yankees.


Rookie Of The Year:

NL: Casey McGehee, Brewers

Several possibilities here.

AL: Rick Porcello, Tigers

Not much here, though. I can't find any rookie who made a decent impact in the AL as a position player this year.


Manager Of The Year:

NL: Jim Tracy, Rockies

Took over a struggling team and they went 74-42 for him. 'Nuff said.

AL: Mike Scioscia, Angels

Um...can we give this one to Tracy, too? I always think this should go to a manager whose team overachieved, and I don't think anyone in the AL really did. You can certainly make a case for Jim Leyland, but it's tough when they failed to seal the deal the way they did. As a fellow Northwestern grad I'd love to say Joe Girardi, but with the talent he had to work with, they should have won. Gardenhire? I don't know.

I really don't know who should get Comeback Player so I'll leave it to others to decide to include that or not.
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#2 Posted on 13.10.09 0650.22
Reposted on: 13.10.16 0650.59
    Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon
    Greinke had a better ERA than Hernandez but didn't win as much, although this of course is not unrelated to the fact that Greinke has to play with the Royals.


Shouldn't the award be for PITCHING. How does the Royals not being able to score have anything to do with Greinke's pitching? Felix might be second, but Zack should win this award hands down.


Greinke had four less HR allowed (11 to 15).

Greinke had 25 more strikeouts (242 to 217).

Greinke had 20 less walks (51 to 71).

Greinke had the better WHIP (1.07 to 1.14).

Greinke had the better ERA (2.16 to 2.49).

Greinke had three less wins (16 to 19).

Wins is the only thing that Greinke is worse than Hernandez and it is out of his control. All those other things listed above is what he can control and he beats Hernandez on every count. If he loses, it will be a travesty.
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#3 Posted on 13.10.09 0902.33
Reposted on: 13.10.16 0902.46
    Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon
    Rookie Of The Year:

    AL: Rick Porcello, Tigers

    Not much here, though. I can't find any rookie who made a decent impact in the AL as a position player this year.

This is probably a homer pick, but Elvis Andrus was fantastic with the glove at SS and wasn't a complete liability with the bat. But, Porcello isn't a bad pick either.

OTOH, I agree 100% with pieman--Greinke was clearly the best pitcher in the AL this year. To me, he's a no brainer choice for Cy Young; that's why I'm worried the voters will get it wrong. Way too much weight is put on wins.
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#4 Posted on 13.10.09 0913.27
Reposted on: 13.10.16 0913.32
    Originally posted by pieman
      Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon
      Greinke had a better ERA than Hernandez but didn't win as much, although this of course is not unrelated to the fact that Greinke has to play with the Royals.


    Shouldn't the award be for PITCHING. How does the Royals not being able to score have anything to do with Greinke's pitching? Felix might be second, but Zack should win this award hands down.


    Greinke had four less HR allowed (11 to 15).

    Greinke had 25 more strikeouts (242 to 217).

    Greinke had 20 less walks (51 to 71).

    Greinke had the better WHIP (1.07 to 1.14).

    Greinke had the better ERA (2.16 to 2.49).

    Greinke had three less wins (16 to 19).

    Wins is the only thing that Greinke is worse than Hernandez and it is out of his control. All those other things listed above is what he can control and he beats Hernandez on every count. If he loses, it will be a travesty.


Greinke also had four more complete games (six to two). I agree with you, anyone other than Greinke winning this award would be unfortunate.

And Cardinals players winning the MVP and Cy Young awards, as appears likely to me, sure will be bittersweet. Fucking Matt Holliday.
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#5 Posted on 13.10.09 1115.40
Reposted on: 13.10.16 1115.53
Aaron Hill and Chris Carpenter already won the Comeback awards.

NL MVP: Pujols, but I'd love to see Andre Ethier finish 2nd. (He won't.)

AL MVP: Mauer

NL Cy Young: Adam Wainwright

AL Cy Young: Greinke

I never know who to pick for RoY, but I could see the NL award going to either Andrew McCutchen or Garrett Jones, so the Pirates get SOMETHING.

NL Manager: Heart says Torre, head says Tracy.

AL Manager: Probably Scioscia, but Girardi getting it wouldn't shock me.

(edited by SchippeWreck on 13.10.09 0916)
dWs
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#6 Posted on 13.10.09 1548.07
Reposted on: 13.10.16 1548.23
I think Seth Smith just barely qualifies as a rookie. If so, he'll get some RoY votes in the NL. But he shouldn't win.

I'd say the NL RoY should be between McGehee and Andrew McCutchen. RoY is usually a numbers game, but if "MVP factors" are considered, then it should go to McCutchen who, in less than two weeks after his arrival, became THE guy on the Pirates (not that that's hard to do or anything...)

McGehee had the better numbers, but McCutchen is the better player without a doubt.
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#7 Posted on 13.10.09 1725.54
Reposted on: 13.10.16 1726.07
Pujols and Mauer are 1st and 2nd in terms of batting runs above replacement, so no reason they shouldn't get the MVPs(Last in the league: Yuniesky Betancourt, who played 134 games, and had a OPS of .625)

Cy Young should be Greinke and Tim Lincecum.

I don't know enough about which guys are rookies, and I don't think a manager effects the game in a positive way.
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#8 Posted on 13.10.09 1833.28
Reposted on: 13.10.16 1834.14
    Originally posted by pieman
      Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon
      Greinke had a better ERA than Hernandez but didn't win as much, although this of course is not unrelated to the fact that Greinke has to play with the Royals.


    Shouldn't the award be for PITCHING. How does the Royals not being able to score have anything to do with Greinke's pitching? Felix might be second, but Zack should win this award hands down.


    Greinke had four less HR allowed (11 to 15).

    Greinke had 25 more strikeouts (242 to 217).

    Greinke had 20 less walks (51 to 71).

    Greinke had the better WHIP (1.07 to 1.14).

    Greinke had the better ERA (2.16 to 2.49).

    Greinke had three less wins (16 to 19).

    Wins is the only thing that Greinke is worse than Hernandez and it is out of his control. All those other things listed above is what he can control and he beats Hernandez on every count. If he loses, it will be a travesty.


Not to mention, Greinke led the maors in FIP (Fielding Independent ERA) at 2.33, and Felix, with the best defense in the league behind him, was 4th in the AL at 3.09.

I love Felix, but if he were a hitter going for a batting title he'd have hit .370 in a year where a dude hit .390. Greinke should win unanimously.

(edited by JayJayDean on 13.10.09 1633)
djp
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#9 Posted on 13.10.09 2235.22
Reposted on: 13.10.16 2235.39
I've always felt that since the Cy Young is an individual award that it should be based first and foremost on an individual statistic; ERA being the most indicative of how effective a pitcher one is. Therefore I think that wins are overrated since the stat leans too heavily on run support. Base the award on ERA with a minimum number of starts/innings instead of how well the offense performs when you are starting. Especially the AL where the pitcher has zero impact on the team's offensive production for that game.
Joseph Ryder
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#10 Posted on 14.10.09 0236.48
Reposted on: 14.10.16 0237.21
ERA is much better than wins, but there are much better indicators than ERA. A pitcher cannot control the defense he has behind him, as JayJayDean alluded to (Felix had a historically good one behind him, Greinke one of the worst), the home park in which he pitches, or the teams he faces.

As for your "give it to the best ERA" idea (given a minimum of innings), more questions would arise. Who's a better pitcher to have, one who throws 200 IP of 2.50 ERA, or one who throws 250 IP of 2.75 ERA?

In 2009 it's a moot point however, as Greinke slaughters the field in all the basic measurements as well as all the advanced ones.

Mauer's the MVP. I'd like to hear a serious argument for Teixeira. Fangraphs' WAR stat actually has Ben Zobrist ahead of Mauer, but likely only because we haven't quite figured out how to honor good-fielding catchers yet, where Zobrist got huge points for being a good fielder. Mauer pulls ahead if he's only slightly above-average, plus he had that other little requirement in many voters' eyes in that his team made the playoffs.
Big Bad
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#11 Posted on 14.10.09 0305.28
Reposted on: 14.10.16 0305.29
Pujols and Mauer are no-brainer MVP choices. Any other arguments for other players is just pissing in the wind.

I'd still take Halladay as the AL Cy Young just because his schedule is so absurdly harder than Greinke's is. That said, no complaints if Greinke wins.

Lincecum should win the NL Cy over Carpenter due to the massive discrepancy in strikeouts.

No love for Andrew Bailey or Tommy Hanson in the ROY races? Bailey was a top closer and Hanson is an ace in the making.
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#12 Posted on 14.10.09 0741.18
Reposted on: 14.10.16 0742.01
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    I'd still take Halladay as the AL Cy Young just because his schedule is so absurdly harder than Greinke's is.


If Halladay didn't struggle for a bit after the trade deadline I would agree with you. Greinke, however, was very consistant all year.


NL MVP: Pujols, there is no other.

AL MVP: Except for Joe Mauer. Put him in another position with equal defensive skills, he'd still be an MVP candidate. The fact he's a catcher and handles his pitchers so well seals the deal. At this point if I were to be building a team from scratch, Mauer would be pick #1.

NL Cy Young: Carpenter won the comeback award, so I don't think they'll give it to another pitcher of the Cardinals. I'll say Lincecum.

AL Cy Young: Greinke, for being great all year. The stats this year (ESPECIALLY at the start of the year) prove it.

NL Manager: Jim Tracy for turning his team around.

AL Manager: Scioscia due to bringing his team together during their rough start of the year.
The Game
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#13 Posted on 14.10.09 1053.19
Reposted on: 14.10.16 1054.24
AL MVP: Tex put up his usual slugging numbers but Jeter as it has been noted, does all the intangibles that people don't notice as much. Not taking away from Joe Mauer who would be an excellent choice for MVP but the Yanks were the only team with a 100-win season (and by the way, I am not a Yankees fan, just trying to be un-biased here). Final MVP? Give to Jeter.

AL CY Young: Zack Grienke is the favorite but again this award is going to a Yankee and former CY Young award winner with CC Sabathia. He went 19-8 with a 3.37 ERA (compared to Grienke's lower 2.16 ERA) but Sabathia pitches in what is probably the toughest and most competitive division in all of baseball. If the Royals had a better record and were in contention for the division title, then I would put Grienke up front.

AL Manager of the Year:I will give this to Ron Gardenhire from Minnesota. The reason is without MVP candidate Joe Mauer, the Twins still stuck around and were on full swing when he return from the DL. But the Twins were really never completely out of contention and kept clawing and fighting. The Angels are consistent in winning their division and are similiar to the Yanks in the AL when it comes to batting and overall pitching. When you have that, it is no surprise that your ball club wins without question.

NL MVP: Without much debate, a machine if you will win this; and of course it is none other than the always consistent Albert Pujols. Ryan Howard will have his name on the ballot but when the Phillies have a few other players on the ballot as well, it hurts the chances of winning an MVP. Pujols just simply dominated the batting stats; a rare find in a hitter who can have a .300+ average and homers galore to go along with it.

NL CY Young: This is may be a tough one but I will go with Chris Carpenter who is also a candidate for Comeback Player of the Year. In the last couple seasons, Carpenter has been on the DL with injuries and went 17-4 with a 2.24 ERA and along with Pujols, he was a catalyst to why the Cards dominated their division.

NL Manager of the Year: This award usually goes to a manager who turns a team around. So this award is going to the favorited Jim Tracy. Colorado won over 70 games when he took over and made the playoffs. Can Colorado be consistent next season or do they have to fire another manager and have to pull it through again during the last half of the season?
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#14 Posted on 14.10.09 1117.20
Reposted on: 14.10.16 1117.20
    Originally posted by The Game
    Tex put up his usual slugging numbers but Jeter as it has been noted, does all the intangibles that people don't notice as much.

Exactly! It's about time that someone finally paid attention to Derek Jeter.
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#15 Posted on 14.10.09 1121.45
Reposted on: 14.10.16 1121.58
I think Jeter is at least as deserving as Mark Teixeira.

But neither is as deserving as Joe Mauer.
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#16 Posted on 14.10.09 1135.09
Reposted on: 14.10.16 1135.41
    Originally posted by The Game
    If the Royals had a better record and were in contention for the division title, then I would put Grienke up front.


Greinke went 16-8 for a team that finished 65-97. He can only control what happens in games that he pitches. How is it fair to hold the performances of the other starting pitchers against him? If anything, the fact that he did so much better than the other starters on the team should be an argument in support of him winning the Cy Young, not against it.
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#17 Posted on 14.10.09 1343.22
Reposted on: 14.10.16 1345.30
MVPs are easy, Mauer and Pujols hands down. NL Cy is Carpenter, but Lincecum is deserving as well. I'm sorry Big Bad, you overrate the strikeouts, it doesn't matter how you get em out. And Carp had a lot less walks. Those of you picking King Felix, or worse, Sabathia over Greinke I just want to know what you are smoking and where can I get some? Greinke dominates everyone in raw stats. And the weak division argument is lame lame lame. Also, Greinke war playing for a team with an awful offense and bullpen. And the D behind him was historically bad. Try pitching with the likes of Billy Butler, Mike Jacobs, Yuniesky Betancourt, Alberto Callaspo, Willie Bloomquist(at SS and CF at times!), Jose Guillen, and Alex Gordon playing behind you. And those same guys are also your run support. Now that is pressure! 1968 Bob Gibson would have had trouble getting wins with this team.
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#18 Posted on 14.10.09 1429.17
Reposted on: 14.10.16 1430.18
    Originally posted by Big Bad


    No love for Andrew Bailey or Tommy Hanson in the ROY races?

Or Chris Coghlan?
The Game
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#19 Posted on 16.10.09 1126.21
Reposted on: 16.10.16 1127.14
    Originally posted by hayden
      Originally posted by The Game
      If the Royals had a better record and were in contention for the division title, then I would put Grienke up front.


    Greinke went 16-8 for a team that finished 65-97. He can only control what happens in games that he pitches. How is it fair to hold the performances of the other starting pitchers against him? If anything, the fact that he did so much better than the other starters on the team should be an argument in support of him winning the Cy Young, not against it.


Good point but Sabathia pitches in the toughest division in all of baseball and I am not taking anything away from Grienke but besides the Orioles, any team in the AL East is capable of beating you without it considering being an upset.
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#20 Posted on 16.10.09 1407.38
Reposted on: 16.10.16 1409.45
    Originally posted by The Game
      Originally posted by hayden
        Originally posted by The Game
        If the Royals had a better record and were in contention for the division title, then I would put Grienke up front.


      Greinke went 16-8 for a team that finished 65-97. He can only control what happens in games that he pitches. How is it fair to hold the performances of the other starting pitchers against him? If anything, the fact that he did so much better than the other starters on the team should be an argument in support of him winning the Cy Young, not against it.


    Good point but Sabathia pitches in the toughest division in all of baseball and I am not taking anything away from Grienke but besides the Orioles, any team in the AL East is capable of beating you without it considering being an upset.

If you're only going to consider AL East pitchers qualified to win the award, then why not give it to Halladay, who was pretty clearly better than Sabathia
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