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27.8.07 1815
The 7 - Random - Buffy Series Finale (Spoilers, obviously)
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Wolfram J. Paulovich
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#1 Posted on 20.5.03 2037.09
Reposted on: 20.5.10 2037.29
I'm surprised by how much I enjoyed the show, in spite of the fact that I read the spoilers and was disappointed by some of the choices Joss was "going to make."

Just a couple of thoughts:
• Was pissed, am pissed, always will be pissed about Spike dying.
• Still can't stand Angel.
• Still consider Buffy exploitive of her friends and lovers (i.e. "I need you , Spike,"; "I love you, Angel"; "It's nothing, Spike"; "I love you, Spike"; "Whatever").
• Whatever happened to that mortal wound? Oh, I guess it must be one of those temporarily mortal wounds.
• The leaping off the building onto the bus thing was a bit much.

But:
• TROGDOR!!!!!
• Giles playing D&D.
• I thought Anya had a good send off, and it captured her character well. She died doing "something stupid." Nice comment.
• I think Wood, Andrew and Faith looked great and came off very well.
• Faith kicks ass. Thank you very much.
• Kennedy seemed pretty hip, after all.
• Willow in white was cool-looking, and I hope she behaves more like an adult (and less like a gasping band-camp girl) in her spin-off.
• I think Dawn and Andrew would be really cool as two half-watchers in a spin-off. Dawn has the dedication and drive, and Andrew just knows all kinds of esoterica.

All told, I'm a lot less angry than I thought I would be. Though I didn't care for the end results, I did ultimately like most of the presentation. And, of course, I got a little choked up watching Spike go. That the scene was moving excused the fact that I hated it on a rational level.
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#2 Posted on 20.5.03 2308.47
Reposted on: 20.5.10 2310.01
I thought it was what it was going to be yet, the dead count was down from what the spoilers said, Andrew dying, so I am happy about that. I think it was just a fun episode with a lot of good touching scenes. I loved the Buffy/Willow/Giles/Xander scene. It was one of the best things they could have done and was the scene I was waiting for since they said it was going to be in the final season. I really enjoyed it and I was a bit choked up at the end, but as bad as I thought I would be.

It was a good sendoff yet, with all those slayers running around do we really need Angel and what happen when one or a few of them goes rouge? I guess Angel will clear that up next season as well as Spike's fate. I wonder if the First will bring him back like she did Angel in Season 3. It would make sense since the First is not really gone either. Of course running that storyline would be lame since its been done, but I think the new super-writing team could make it interesting if they get the guest stars they wanted.

A Fan- The end was not as bad as I thought it would be.
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#3 Posted on 20.5.03 2353.26
Reposted on: 20.5.10 2354.28
I enjoyed it, and I went in fairly spoiler free.

I was kinda hoping they would do something nice with the opening, by maybe redo-ing it to feature scenes from all seven seasons showing how the characters have progressed, but that was just me being hopeful....

It was good to see Angel and Buffy again. Briefly revisiting their relationship was a nice nod to the past. I was surprised he was around for such a brief time, but I guess since he does have his own show to live for, it didn't make sense for him to stick around and subtly alert people to the fact that the good guys would win.

The send-up of the Harvest closing was great, especially with the camera on Giles as the others walk away. Cute touch.

The D & D fest was also hysterical, especially the way it played out as appearing like a planning session first. Giles reaction to the game made the scene.

Even though I expected it, I'm still saddened by Anya's death. She was one of my favorites. Did she get cut straight through from shoulder to hip??? Cripes. Xander and Andrew's scene at the end about her was nice. My only problem is that other than Spike (who'll be on Angel next season), Anya's the only real death on the show. Other than how they've built up to it the last few episodes, with her so focused on the Slayerettes' mortality she's ignored her own, it really doesn't make sense that everyone else would be more or less okay while she gets offed.

Good to see Robin playing Faith. She's always needed a stable relationship, and Wood is the first person willing to stand up to her and *fight back*, as it were. Its a shame this is the finally, cuz I wouldn't mind seeing this relationship play out somewhere.

At least, with the ending we got, the destruction of the council makes sense on a grander scale. The scoobies effectively destroyed the slayer traditions, as they were known. This will allow Joss great freedom in setting up any post-Buffy spin-offs. The gang will likely form a new council, and it will seem that people will have to go about finding new slayers, and telling them about their power. Certainly, the power scales in the Buffyverse have been tipped.

Now that its over should we start calling it the Angelverse?

The other interesting thing about the ending is that Buffy fulfilled Joss' concepts of female empowerment. No longer is she the only one (or two) strong females destined to fight evil, but now any girl anywhere could possibly be a slayer (provided they have the potential). How inspiring...

Amazing how Buffy can take that wound and then outrun a total collapse of the city. Just goes to show you how tough a slayer is.

The scene with Spike was sweet, but I'm still not sure what Spike meant when he told Buffy that she didn't love him. Did he believe she didn't know him (know she didn't love him?), or was he just trying to make it easier for her to get out from his sacrificial act? It will be interesting to see how he's brought back on Angel. (If Spike is brought back evil, it will be a shame, cuz souled Spike and souled Angel could have been amusing together...)

The other thing of interest is that it seems now each of the scoobies has a dead love interest. Tara for Willow, Anya for Xander, Miss Calendar for Giles, and Spike for Buffy. Spike is the first major male character (and love interest) to die, as opposed to just leaving town (Oz, Angel, Riley). The other major character who's died (Joyce), while not a love interest, was loved by Buffy (and, her partner Mr. Summers just left and disappeared, while still alive, last we heard, anyway). I wonder if there isn't some deeper point here regarding gender roles and relationships. Especially given that Buffy is intended to defy gender stereotypes, Spike would be the "woman", in that case, allowing the pattern to stand. I'm not sure what I'm getting at here beyond food for thought.

I am disappointed that they never did really explain what the point of Giles and Anya visiting the Eye of Bojoxor and finding out that the First could do this because Buffy had been resurrected was. Also, why was it important for Dawn to stand up to Buffy per Joyce's request? There are a bunch of little things to nitpick, but I'll let them go, cuz I'm a fanboy and I'm sad to see the show leave. It'll be nice to watch it all again on DVD and see if I missed anything (I'm sure I did).

Edit: After reading the post with the 10 Questions with Joss Whedon, I realized that the First was right at the end of Lessons. It WAS about power...


(edited by EddieBurkett on 21.5.03 0107)
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#4 Posted on 21.5.03 0153.12
Reposted on: 21.5.10 0156.08
I was pretty unimpressed with the series finale. Too many loose ends, and I was hoping for a more epic finish. Did the First Evil just decide to leave?

Also, for a show that was allegedly so much about female empowerment, in the end it was still the attempted rapist that ended up making the ultimate sacrifice.
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#5 Posted on 21.5.03 0200.32
Reposted on: 21.5.10 0203.43
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    Also, for a show that was allegedly so much about female empowerment, in the end it was still the attempted rapist that ended up making the ultimate sacrifice.


Spike's theme had nothing to do with female empowerment, but you're absolutely correct in observing that he went from attempting to rape Buffy a year ago to willingly sacrificing himself to save the world. Instead of selfishly focusing on his lust for Buffy, he was now willing to forego his existence to ensure that everyone (including his beloved Buffy) could live.

As far as the First, given that you can't stop Evil from occurring, it can't really ever be killed. All Buffy and co. did was foil its plan this time, and in the process make it a lot harder for it to try again (no more hellmouth, tons of slayers running around). Unless somehow, the light from Spike was able to destroy it in the ensuing blast, but I doubt that.

EDIT: Just remembered this, but at the VERY end, when the Mutant Enemy logo snapped at the screen, did he look like a cartoon Turok-Han? Is *that* why they made them the army for the finale?

(edited by EddieBurkett on 21.5.03 0306)
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#6 Posted on 21.5.03 0207.30
Reposted on: 21.5.10 0208.30
Since I avoided all spoilers like the plague, what were some of the wilder theories out there about the final episode?
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#7 Posted on 21.5.03 0535.22
Reposted on: 21.5.10 0535.49

    Originally posted by Big Bad
    Since I avoided all spoilers like the plague, what were some of the wilder theories out there about the final episode?


Buffy: Hi, Spike. You look like you've got something to say. Do you?
Spike: Yes, I certainly do! [Joss Whedon's voice] I have to go now. My planet needs me.

[the cel with Spike on it is crudely moved upwards]
[some crudely-scrawled titles move up, stating "Note: Spike died on the way back to his home planet"]

So there's a Hellmouth in Cleveland, eh? That would explain why all the rivers catch fire.
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#8 Posted on 21.5.03 0800.36
Reposted on: 21.5.10 0801.24
A)Was Dawn not being called fulfilling the prophecy of not being chosen by Buffy when it matters?

B)This show deserved a two hour send off IMO, or maybe I'm just a fan of the Spielberg wrap up ending.

C)It's DEFINITELY gotta be Evil Spike next season. Angel wasn't dead in Hell, so the First didn't really bring him back to life as much as just bring him back. Spike's gonna be a unique resurrection to the say the least.

D)Hopefully we'll get Angel to bring some closure to the Joyce/Darla/First Good hints.

E)Xander survived, lost his girl, and really had some great lines here. As his Disciple though, I'm recquired to say they should've used him more.

F)Wood survived and may bring stability to Faith after all, though if it ends up being her spinoff one of these days he's probably ending up first on the chopping block.

G)Faith's hinted at attraction to Buffy, Buffy and Angel's eternal pining for each other, Faith's sweetness on Angel, Spike AND William's love for Buffy, and Buffy's attraction to Spike if you take a step back you can spot American Television's first Six-Pointed Love Star.

H)Was anyone else waiting for that little girl to hit the Little League homer to end all Little League homers?

I)Can't make a whole post without mentioning that SMG isn't as soft and cuddly as the press would think. Among the people at the wrap party, not only was there Amber Benson (who's on bad terms with Fox) but Seth Green (whom pissed off Joss royally) even made it. Who didn't? Take a wild guess.

J)"No you don't. But thanks for saying it." If that was Spike's final line I think I would have been completely satisfied with never seeing him again because he really did come full circle as a character.
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#9 Posted on 21.5.03 0914.39
Reposted on: 21.5.10 0915.38
I've only been watching sporadically since about the third season, but that ending was weak. First, they never explained how Buffy got the idea to activate the potentials, or even explained how it was possible. Next, Buffy recieves a mortal wound, that not only fails to kill her, but stops bothering her after about a minute. And we say RVD can't sell. Spike's death was noble and poetic, but Anya's death was an almost total non-reaction from everyone. Two lines from Xander and Andrew, that's it. Xander was going to marry her, and that's all the reaction her death gets. WEAK ending.
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#10 Posted on 21.5.03 1023.42
Reposted on: 21.5.10 1024.14

    Originally posted by Jeb Tennyson Lund
    TROGDOR!!!!!

I believe you mean "TROOOGDOOOOOOOOOORRRR!!!!!!" God, that ruled.

I'll do this in bullet form like Jeb, because otherwise I'll talk forever.

The Good:
-The Angel dialogue. This made me so happy he got renewed.
-Buffy giggling after the "He had to split" line.
-Faith and Wood's argument
-D&D! One of the most brilliant scenes in the history of the series, IMHO. Not only was it funny, but the use of Amanda in the scene ended up making me really sad when she died.
-"Dumbass"
-Wood's speech when entering the school.
-The female empowerment speech. (The only thing is, does this make EVERY woman a slayer or just those who chould have been potentials? Will Fred be a slayer next season?)
-Spike's final scene was so powerful and touching. I hope that if he is resurrected for Angel, (some are saying that the announcement of his casting was a smokescreen for the spoiler-happy) it does his character (and this scene) justice.
-Andrew: "Why didn't I die?"
-The big freaking hole that was once Sunnydale.

The Bad:
-Nothing really, other than it deserved to be 2 hours. Caleb got offed too fast and Xander deserved a shot at him. "Party in my eye socket and everyone's invited" almost made up for it, though.

One last thought. Two lines in particular seemed like digs at SMG for ending it all for everyone:
1. Caleb: "Can we finish this now...bitch!"
2. Dawn having the last line: "What are we going to do now, Buffy?"

I watched this show from the beginning and I'm going to miss it a lot. Time to shell out for the DVDs!
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#11 Posted on 21.5.03 1042.56
Reposted on: 21.5.10 1043.25


    I)Can't make a whole post without mentioning that SMG isn't as soft and cuddly as the press would think. Among the people at the wrap party, not only was there Amber Benson (who's on bad terms with Fox) but Seth Green (whom pissed off Joss royally) even made it. Who didn't? Take a wild guess.



Really quick why are Amber Benson and Seth Green on bad terms?
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#12 Posted on 21.5.03 1109.30
Reposted on: 21.5.10 1110.16
    Originally posted by XPacArmy


      I)Can't make a whole post without mentioning that SMG isn't as soft and cuddly as the press would think. Among the people at the wrap party, not only was there Amber Benson (who's on bad terms with Fox) but Seth Green (whom pissed off Joss royally) even made it. Who didn't? Take a wild guess.



    Really quick why are Amber Benson and Seth Green on bad terms?



I know as far as Amber goes, she was supposed to guest star this season as the First(I know for sure in Conversations with Dead People....), but she wanted too much money.

As far as Seth... I believe he's made some comments along the lines of rather having a root canal than coming back, but I'm not sure if he just conisdered himself above the show, or if there was something related to the series that while he was working on it, he did.

(edited by kazhayashi81 on 21.5.03 1010)

(edited by kazhayashi81 on 21.5.03 1012)
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#13 Posted on 21.5.03 1140.22
Reposted on: 21.5.10 1140.49
Seth said he was either with the series and thought it should have ended after the third season even though he was contracted for all of season four. Plus, the Austin Powers movies were starting to get mega-popular, so he bolted to do those and other movie projects. I think him and Joss buried the hatchet a long time ago. Joss was pissed that he backed out on season four, but agreed to come back for an episode later that season. Joss got back at him for making Willow gay, so he looked like an ass when he came back. Or at least that is the theory.

Amber has no real grudge with the cast, its she wanted a nice pay day and UPN said no. Which probably was in the middle of UPN dropping Buffy or close to the beginning of the idea. Everyone thought highly of her on the set and was kinda pissed when UPN nixed that idea. Even though they give Enterprise free reign to do anything including killing Star Trek.

A Fan- Still a really good finale.
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#14 Posted on 21.5.03 1220.54
Reposted on: 21.5.10 1226.42
Just like just about every show I watch, both of my favorite characters (except Xander) DIED! Not to say I wasn't expecting it, but it was a bit of a bummer for me. I thought the finale was a bit rushed (should have been two hours). But the finale wasn't too bad. I'm just sad to know that now my tuesdays will feel so empty. I've watched this show since I was eleven or twelve and it feels weird now that it has ended...
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#15 Posted on 21.5.03 1249.51
Reposted on: 21.5.10 1258.18
I loved the finale. I would've liked 2 hours as well for it but i'll take what they give me and be happy. Well this episode definitely proved some early spoilers right and wrong. Like even though it was pretty much confirmed Anya was gonna die, I still couldn't help but gasp in shock. The last Anya/Andrew scene before that where he told her to think happy thoughts and Andrew brought up bunnies=awesomeness. But also there was an early rumor/spoiler about white-haired Willow saying she would get the white hair after becoming a goddess of sorts. But I guess that was kinda wrong though she did have some uberpower during that power transfer scene

now i'll just outline any other good parts that stand out to keep myself from going on and on:
Andrew goodies:
-TROGDOR!!! man, they caught me off-guard with that. Great inside joke thing for the several thousand net nerds out there (me included)
-"I have swimmer's ear!"
-the talk with Xander by the bus at the end

Other good stuff:
-The line of scenes from where Buffy begins to tell her plans, there's just a streaming barrage of great jokes. Including Willow mentioning the tongue ring and Dawn's late reaction.
-the whole fight scene with all the SITs kicking ass. very cool.
-Giant hole that was once Sunnydale
-The "core four" of the cast gathered in the school talking about what they're going to do tomorrow

everything was actually pretty awesome. i'll have to watch it again though to make sure I didn't miss anything else and to re-live everything again.


    Originally posted by AngryJohnny

    I)Can't make a whole post without mentioning that SMG isn't as soft and cuddly as the press would think. Among the people at the wrap party, not only was there Amber Benson (who's on bad terms with Fox) but Seth Green (whom pissed off Joss royally) even made it. Who didn't?



Yeah. I can see why too. This is from an interview with Alyson Hannigan in the latest FHM:
How did the first conversation with Sarah Michelle Gellar go after you found out she was putting a fork in Buffy?
It wasn’t that big of a surprise, but finding out from a magazine article—that sucked. I’m really upset that that’s the way the cast and crew found out they would be unemployed.

Did Sarah apologize?
No. She hasn’t said anything.


I could imagine how royally pissed some of the cast members where. I mean even Aly who's been seen as one of SMG's good friends off the show.


    Originally posted by SchippeWreck



    (The only thing is, does this make EVERY woman a slayer or just those who chould have been potentials? Will Fred be a slayer next season?)
    -Spike's final scene was so powerful and touching. I hope that if he is resurrected for Angel, (some are saying that the announcement of his casting was a smokescreen for the spoiler-happy) it does his character (and this scene) justice



1.) I think I heard it mentioned that only those that were in-line or meant to be Slayers would become Slayers.
2.) I doubt the smokescreen theory since the WB's has the Angel page up already for the new season preview:

http://www.thewb.com/Shows/Special/0,11116,114399||,00.html

"Last season, Angel narrowly managed to stop the apocalypse, which begs the question, "Where do we go from here?" Well, Angel reunites with Wesley, Fred, Lorne, Gunn (and SPIKE!) - to take over the L.A. office of a formerly evil and currently annihilated law firm. Of course, there's always a hitch. (What do you expect from demonic lawyers?) And a few surprises... like visits from some of the Sunnydale gang."
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#16 Posted on 21.5.03 1258.25
Reposted on: 21.5.10 1259.01
-Add me to the list of people marking over Trogdor.

-"We destroyed the mall? I was on the wrong side."-Dawn

-The Goddess ref came from Kennedy referring to Willow as such after the power transfer.

-I imagine Spike returning somewhat the same way Angel did.

-Nice of them to bring up bunnies in Anya's farewell.

-On an Angel note, now that they have Wolfram & Hart, will they still use the hotel?


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#17 Posted on 21.5.03 1348.12
Reposted on: 21.5.10 1351.23
I was "so so" on the final episode. While I enjoyed the episode, I (too) thought it should have been 2 hours. I do think it left the door open for sequels/movies/spin-offs. I didn't like Anya dying. She died for no reason. Xander had even called her "sweetie" and said "that's my girl". Much the same as many, I'm a Xander mark. I wanted him to have the happy ending, but he ended up losing his eye and the only woman who had ever loved him (Cordy never loved Xander and Willow's love was probably more sibling-like than romantic).

At least Spike died gloriously. Besides, he will be brought back to life in some way. It was good to see Giles, Buffy, Willow, and Xander back on the same page at the very end.

Any bets on when the special movies begin? If SMG's career takes the David Carusso/Shelly Long path would she rediscover her passion for the character?
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#18 Posted on 21.5.03 1420.59
Reposted on: 21.5.10 1423.53
Eh. That stuff was the shit. A few things.

-Angel's reaction to Spike having a soul "I started it...."

-Trogdor was the man. Er...he was the dragon...man. Or maybe just a dragon.

-Just the thought of those guys playing D&D is awesome.

You know what? Too much to mention. Even though it could have used another hour, that was the perfect ending to the show. I nearly got all teary eyed. I would've liked to have seen everybody else one more time (where was the Initiative? Buffy should have contacted them. Would've liked to see Oz one last time). But I think this was pretty much the perfect wrap up. Lots of horror, dark depressing stuff, but mixed in with the funny light jokes that the show has been missing over the past few years. It was awesome to see that back.

Bye, bye Anya!
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#19 Posted on 21.5.03 1428.13
Reposted on: 21.5.10 1429.01

    Originally posted by Mild Mannered Madman
    I imagine Spike returning somewhat the same way Angel did.
Angel didn't come back from the dead, he came back from Hell. He was run through with a METAL sword and his corporeal form NEVER disintegrated. Spike is ashes to ashes man.

It would be great if Angel added some SITs next season for firepower, but I can never figure out which ones are still alive. SchippeWreck knows who Amanda is, I'm still trying to keep whether Subtitles is still alive. Oh, and Black and Sassy showed up.

Speaking of death and SITs, can someone give me a final death count and list??

By the way, I think we've forgotten to mention the wicked Wood death fakeout. Mentioned.

TROGDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR! "Now I'm a dwarf with the magical ability of a doylie."
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#20 Posted on 21.5.03 1440.45
Reposted on: 21.5.10 1448.12
I think this pic of Joss from the L.A. Times explains the Trogdor reference fairly well. (Sorry if you have to register, I'm all cookied up here at work.)

Oh, and I only remember Amanda because she was the only one (I think) that had an entire episode dedicated to her introduction. The rest came on in groups. I could never remember Vi's name until someone else mentioned it.

EDIT: Death List:
-Spike
-Anya
-Amanda (gawky SIT)
-Asian SIT (Don't think it was Chao An...have to check the tape)
-Caleb
-And a whole bunch of ubervamps, thanks to Spike opening the Autobot Matrix of Leadership and lighting their darkest hour.
That's it for the finale. Molly (goofy British SIT) was killed by Caleb in the vineyard, along with another unnamed SIT. I'm sure a few other no-names bought it in the explosion last week.

(edited by SchippeWreck on 21.5.03 1331)
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