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31.7.07 2050
The 7 - Pro Wrestling - Bret Hart Register and log in to post!
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kentish
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#1 Posted on 25.4.06 1023.17
Reposted on: 25.4.13 1023.57
I was talking to someone the other day, and they said that Bret retired as an undefeated WCW champion, after Goldberg nearly kicked his head off. This made me wonder, has anyone else ever done this? I always thought most wrestlers would want to win the belt and retire on top, but I can't remember it ever happening.
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Matt Tracker
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#2 Posted on 25.4.06 1031.19
Reposted on: 25.4.13 1031.22
    Originally posted by kentish
    I was talking to someone the other day, and they said that Bret retired as an undefeated WCW champion, after Goldberg nearly kicked his head off. This made me wonder, has anyone else ever done this? I always thought most wrestlers would want to win the belt and retire on top, but I can't remember it ever happening.


One might argue Benoit did a version of this. I can't think of another incident where the current world champ left the company within 24 hours of winning the belt. But WCW retconned the win as Arn claimed he screwed up as referee when he ended the match.

Recently, Matt Cappotelli stepped down as OVW champ because of medical reasons.
Deputy Marshall
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#3 Posted on 25.4.06 1118.39
Reposted on: 25.4.13 1118.56
    Originally posted by kentish
    I was talking to someone the other day, and they said that Bret retired as an undefeated WCW champion, after Goldberg nearly kicked his head off. This made me wonder, has anyone else ever done this? I always thought most wrestlers would want to win the belt and retire on top, but I can't remember it ever happening.
Shawn Michaels sort of tried to (when he "lost his smile"), but he just didn't want to do the job at that point in time and had every intention of coming back.



    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    One might argue Benoit did a version of this. I can't think of another incident where the current world champ left the company within 24 hours of winning the belt. But WCW retconned the win as Arn claimed he screwed up as referee when he ended the match.
But didn't The E undo the retconning of his title win? I could swear I've heard commentators refer to him as a former WCW World Champion.

(edited by Deputy Marshall on 25.4.06 1219)
rv581
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#4 Posted on 25.4.06 1128.00
Reposted on: 25.4.13 1128.53
Didn't Verne Gagne, or one of those old-timers, retire with the belt?

IMO, unless you're legitmately injured, retiring with the strap is a ridiculously self-aggrandizing, self-indulgent decision, 'cause it completely undercuts the credibility of the next champion.

In boxing, Lennox Lewis retired with the heavyweight title sveral years ago, and the heavyweight division hasn't come anywhere CLOSE to recovering...
JustinShapiro
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#5 Posted on 25.4.06 1135.14
Reposted on: 25.4.13 1138.51
    Originally posted by kentish
    I was talking to someone the other day, and they said that Bret retired as an undefeated WCW champion, after Goldberg nearly kicked his head off. This made me wonder, has anyone else ever done this? I always thought most wrestlers would want to win the belt and retire on top, but I can't remember it ever happening.


Well, technically, he didn't retire as champion. He vacated the title to recover from his injury. And eventually found out that he couldn't.
Deputy Marshall
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#6 Posted on 25.4.06 1141.28
Reposted on: 25.4.13 1141.55
    Originally posted by rv581
    Didn't Verne Gagne, or one of those old-timers, retire with the belt?


AWA World Title History (Wrestling-Titles.com)

As far as I can tell, that's pretty accurate. Verne did indeed retire while holding the belt in 1980.

Additionally, while none of them retired with the belt: Stan Hansen was stripped for no-showing AWA events in '86, and then defended his physical version of the belt in Japan while the AWA awarded it to Nick Bockwinkel. Lawler unified the AWA and WCWA World Titles to become the "Unified World Heavyweight Champion" in '88, but was stripped of the AWA Title in '89 after the CWA split from the AWA. The nail in the coffin of the organization was when champion Zybysko simply left for WCW while holding the belt in 1990.

I won't even get into the whole mess of Dale Gagne claiming to buy the rights to the title while not holding the rights to the promotion, simply because I can't make heads or tails of it (or the claim of the current NWA holding lineage to the old NWA Title). Although I bet at least a few Ws might be able to.

(edited by Deputy Marshall on 25.4.06 1246)
britishiles
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#7 Posted on 25.4.06 1254.34
Reposted on: 25.4.13 1254.59
Fritz Von Erich came out of retirement and defeated NWA American Champion King Kong Bundy for the title then retired.

He came out of retirement again and tagged with Kevin & Mike and they defeated The Freebirds for the World Class 6 Man Tag Titles, then he retired and Kerry took his place. I believe it was the David Von Erich Memorial where Kerry defeated Flair for the NWA World Title.
SKLOKAZOID
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#8 Posted on 25.4.06 1322.26
Reposted on: 25.4.13 1323.20
WWE ret-conned Benoit's WCW Title win when Paul Heyman mentioned that he was a "former WCW World Champion", but they have re-ret-conned it since.
    Originally posted by Benoit Bio from WWE.com
    Benoit also held the United States Championship and WCW Tag Team Championship twice each before leaving WCW. On his final night in WCW, Benoit appeared to win the WCW Championship at Souled Out, but the decision was reversed the next night.
The WCW World Title isn't listed under his title reigns either.

I myself have never really recognized Benoit's WCW title win over Sid (it's just like when he "beat" The Rock for the title, only it took a day to reverse the decision), and I think the fact that his WMXX win stands as his only world title win is better anyway, since that was the greatest moment and payoff for all his hard work.

(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 25.4.06 1123)
kentish
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#9 Posted on 25.4.06 1402.54
Reposted on: 25.4.13 1403.27
I forgot about Gagne, they may have mentioned this during his Hall of fame spiel. I agree that you should "do the honors" for someone going out. I did not know if Bret retired as champ, or vacated and then retired when he knew he could not come back.
Matt Tracker
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#10 Posted on 25.4.06 1411.58
Reposted on: 25.4.13 1412.00
    Originally posted by kentish
    I forgot about Gagne, they may have mentioned this during his Hall of fame spiel. I agree that you should "do the honors" for someone going out. I did not know if Bret retired as champ, or vacated and then retired when he knew he could not come back.


Bret's and Benoit's title vacancies happened virutally the same night. The CRZ post-PPV Nitro recap is here (slashwrestling.com)

The nitty gritty as offered by the announcers:

Your hosts are the AWESOME 3. "Last night as we said, Bret Hart, the World Champion, injured, was not able to compete. He was stripped of the World title. Also, Jeff Jarrett, US Champion was not able to compete, he was stripped of the United States title, and last night Chris Benoit met Sid Vicious for the WCW Heavyweight title in what we would all agree, and I think you fans who watched the pay-per-view as well would agree, was a real classic between the two men - but today, there has been a reversal of decisions and it all depends on the referee, who was Arn Andersion - earlier today, Arn Anderson, who was the referee last night, had this profound statement, and here's what Arn Anderson had to say."
redsoxnation
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#11 Posted on 25.4.06 1750.18
Reposted on: 25.4.13 1750.57
The fun thing with Verne is he won the title from Bockwinkle in his retirement match, and then, due to the rules of the American Wrestling Asssociation, the title reverted to Bockwinkle when Verne retired as champion. Bockwinkle would also get handed another title run when Hansen pulled the no-show in Denver. Considering how talented Bockwinkle was, it is weird that he got 2 'free' title runs.
And, if we are going to guys who gave up world titles, Vince did it after winning the WWF Title during the Great Ref Strike of '99. Unfortunately, Vince's retirement lasted about as long as a Terry Funk retirement.
britishiles
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#12 Posted on 26.4.06 0910.20
Reposted on: 26.4.13 0910.28
If the AWA recognizes that Hogan won their World Title twice, and according to their title history they do, then I think that gives Bockwinkel two more free reigns as well.

I thought Bockwinkel was OK, but never in the same league as Flair. Then again I didn't see much AWA until they were on ESPN. I think when I started as a wrestlign fan Martel was the AWA champ.
canis582
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#13 Posted on 26.4.06 1009.38
Reposted on: 26.4.13 1010.17
People were keeping track of the "Real WCW championship" for awhile. The logic was that Benoit was still WCW champ when he came in with the Radicals and who ever he lost to first became the champ, then who that person lost to was the champ etc etc. Does anyone know who currently holds that shadow title. It would be funny (albeit probable) if HHH had it.
The Thrill
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#14 Posted on 26.4.06 1357.22
Reposted on: 26.4.13 1357.25
I really hate to bring it up, but...

(image removed)

September 25, 2000. Your WCW world champion: Vince Russo...who would go on to "vacate" the title October 2nd. I don't remember if Russo ever "wrestled" a match again after that. (Source)
The King of Keith
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#15 Posted on 26.4.06 1537.13
Reposted on: 26.4.13 1538.19
    Originally posted by canis582
    People were keeping track of the "Real WCW championship" for awhile. The logic was that Benoit was still WCW champ when he came in with the Radicals and who ever he lost to first became the champ, then who that person lost to was the champ etc etc. Does anyone know who currently holds that shadow title. It would be funny (albeit probable) if HHH had it.


Didn't Benoit lose to HHH in his first match in the WWE? I'm pretty sure he did...
Mr. Boffo
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#16 Posted on 26.4.06 1632.10
Reposted on: 26.4.13 1632.16
Yeah, he did. As one recapper from that time put it:
TREBLE H (with Stephanie Ono) v. CHRIS
BENOIT in a nontitle contest to
unofficially unify the WCW & WWF titles
byort
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#17 Posted on 27.4.06 0851.28
Reposted on: 27.4.13 0851.35
Shane McMahon retired as European champion, only to have the belt later "borrowed" by Mideon. (Hey, if we're bringing up Vince Russo...)
Zeruel
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#18 Posted on 30.4.06 0124.30
Reposted on: 30.4.13 0125.43
    Originally posted by VanillaSky
      Originally posted by canis582
      People were keeping track of the "Real WCW championship" for awhile. The logic was that Benoit was still WCW champ when he came in with the Radicals and who ever he lost to first became the champ, then who that person lost to was the champ etc etc. Does anyone know who currently holds that shadow title. It would be funny (albeit probable) if HHH had it.


    Didn't Benoit lose to HHH in his first match in the WWE? I'm pretty sure he did...


If you also count Rhyno as "Real ECW champion" because he was the last to hold that belt (and the TV title too) and counting non-tag and non-handicap matches, and counting that the titles can change hands 24/7 if held by the WWF Hardcore Champ, then I have a doozy.

According to my preliminary research:

Benoit lost the WCW title to HHH
He lost it to the Godfather on 16-Mar-00 SD! in a non-WWF-title match
He lost it to The Big Show on 06-Apr-00 SD!
He lost it to to Shane O'Mac on 21-May-00 Judgment Day
He lost it (eventually) to "Mr. Party Time" Steve Blackman on 27-Aug-00 Summerslam.
After losing it and getting it back on the same show, he eventually lost it for good to Raven on "Worst Christmas Ever" 25-Dec-00 Raw.
After losing it and getting it back on the same show, he also lost it for good to The Big Show (2nd reign) on 25-Feb-01 No Way Out.
He lost it back to Raven (2) on 19-Mar-01 Raw.
He lost it to Kane on 01-Apr-01 WM X-7
He lost it to Rhyno on 19-Apr-01 SD!
Rhyno "unifies" the ECW and "Real" WCW titles.

As it stands now, the Hardcore champ "has" the "ECW/WCW title."

Looking at the title lineage, RVD (IC champ) unifies the Hardcore title when he beats Tommy dreamer on 26-AUG-02 on Raw.

Kane was the last IC champ before that title was abandoned on 20-OCT-02

If I get the free time, I'll track it match-by-match to present day for all five of you who are dying to know who holds this mythical championship.
Big Bad
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#19 Posted on 30.4.06 0350.12
Reposted on: 30.4.13 0350.26
So after Kane lost to HHH in October of 2002 (the immortal Katie Vick storyline), does that mean that the World Heavyweight Title is actually the unified combination of the WCW title, the ECW title, the ECW TV title, the Hardcore, European and IC (version 1.0) championships?
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