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The W - Baseball - 3/17 Congressional Hearings
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It's False
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Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.44
To sum up the players' portion:

Sammy Sosa: I did not use steroids.
Rafael Palmeiro: I did not use steroids! Period!
Curt Schillings: I did not use steroids.
Frank Thomas (via satellite): I did not use steroids.
Mark McGwire: I plead the 5th.

Who do YOU think is the steroid user here?

This is really sad. One of those cases where no admission is an admission in itself. Say it ain't so, Big Mac!

Good to see the players defend themselves and unite against a common enemy. Man, did they trash Jose Canseco. Palmeiro, especially, came out outspoken and convincing.




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Since: 12.1.02
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.93
He's not there to talk about the past. He's just there to help the present and the future.



mountinman44
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Since: 8.5.02
From: San Diego, CA

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Y!:
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.00
The players portion went exactly as expected. They weren't going to say anything against their current and past teammates. Big Mac wasn't going to admit to anything with or without immunity. I thought Schilling did a great job.

I'm more interested in the panel that is on now. I want to hear what Selig and Fehr have to say, and, as a Padre fan, I want to hear Kevin Towers. Towers is usually very candid with his comments, and I wonder if he will be that way this afternoon. I know his comments to ESPN the Mag ticked off a few people in the Padres' front office.



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Since: 23.7.04
From: Baltimore, MD

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.42
Wow, Big Mac, how disappointing. Though his, um, "performance" was high comedy. Anyone who hasn't seen this should go out of their way to catch one of the MANY replays that will be on. It was pretty awkward. I think he capped of his statement after being asked directly whether he used steroids by saying, and I quote, "steroids..(pause)...is bad." Yup, they sure is.



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Nag
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Since: 10.1.03
From: Enter your city here

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Y!:
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.16
I could only catch the last hour or so of the hearings...

I never thought it would be possible to destroy a tremendous 15 year career in 2 hours, but McGwire succeeded in doing so today, which is sad, cause he has always been a likable guy. Yet, I think someone of his wealth could have bought a good script. Instead of Big Mac he came off as Fleetwood Mac, "Yesterdays gone, Yesterdays gone".

From what I saw not a whole lot of anything earthshattering surfaced from the three active players. I think a lot of people were expecting names, or inside dirt, but no one was going to break rank. Schilling almost threw a no hitter, until he got nailed the with Sports Illustrated question at the very end. Palmeiro basically simplified what Schilling said, and a melencoly looking Sosa further simplified what Palmeiro said. I'm not criticizing, as I do understand the theme of camaraderie, and I respect it.

Jose Canseco plugged his book, and came off as the pompus asshole that he is.
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.25
Perhaps Palmeiro didn't use steroids, and thus is justified in his denial. But, unless the Dominican Republic doesn't have an extradiction treaty to the U.S., Sosa better hope some investigative journalist doesn't go snooping through his past, or else he'll be facing a nice perjury charge. And, did Sosa realize this was the real Congressional hearings and not a SNL sketch?
BWT
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Since: 27.1.04
From: Philly

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.15
My favorite part: "Steroids is bad"- Mark McGwire.
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Since: 7.8.02
From: Boston, MA

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.10
Hi I'm Curt Schilling but you can call me Brandon Walsh, right down to being appointed to a congressional task force. Commissioner's lackey, indeed.

The whole player panel was some oddly compelling television. Makes me wish we'd get to see a group of wrestlers in the same situation.



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Since: 20.2.03

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.05
Barry better hope he never has to appear before Congress. And if he does, he should just take the 5th and not even LISTEN to any questions. I don't think he knows he can't go off on Congress like he can on the reporters. He could get himself into some real trouble if he let his temper get the better of him.


DrewDewce
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Since: 2.1.02
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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.97
Didn't watch 'em because I knew DisnEspn would hack it down to the best bits, and the best bit was Don Fehr losing his train of thought after one point. Of course, his first point was a good one, but I hate that guy and it was HEEEEE-LARIOUS to see him screw up.

What an incredible fishing expedition to get themselves on tv. The Rep that was trying to bait McGwire into saying that he never used steroids as the others did was particularly ridiculous. Ooooh, I'm the guy that got McGwire to admit he did 'em by not admitting it under oath. Ooooh, me so smart!



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Since: 2.1.02
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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.63
"I'm not here to talk about the past" is the new "I never bet on baseball".



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Since: 2.1.03
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.33
I didn't see Selig and Fehr's testimonies, but if it's as bad as people have been saying I think Canseco might be right on this one thing; "Baseball cannot police themselves" on the steriod issue.




bash91
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Plain Dealing, LA

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.56
    Originally posted by BOSsportsfan34
    I didn't see Selig and Fehr's testimonies, but if it's as bad as people have been saying I think Canseco might be right on this one thing; "Baseball cannot police themselves" on the steriod issue.


Actually, of the last panel, Selig came out looking the best of any of them. I'm discounting Towers because he really didn't do anything. Fehr was really bad, but the true loser of the day was Rob Manfred. I don't think I can accurately convey just how bad his testimony and demeanor was. The closest I can come is to say that he makes Anna Nicole Smith look calm, cool, and intelligent. I really doubt we'll see him anywhere near a camera anytime soon if MLB has anything to say about it.

Tim



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wmatistic
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Since: 2.2.04
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52
    Originally posted by Nag
    I could only catch the last hour or so of the hearings...

    I never thought it would be possible to destroy a tremendous 15 year career in 2 hours, but McGwire succeeded in doing so today, which is sad, cause he has always been a likable guy.


I just don't see it. Most people already knew he and Sammy and Bonds and many others used. What, do you now think Sosa never used steriods because the words came out of his oversized head? People have known, and pretty much accepted it. I don't think this will end up having any real impact, other than the media going crazy telling us we have to hate him now. Sorry, ain't gonna happen.

And when someone who needs to make a buck comes forward with a book about how he was Sosa's supplier, McGwire is gonna look that much smarter for not having lied under oath.
The Thrill
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Since: 16.4.02
From: Green Bay, WI

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.25
Thanks for a great season, Pick of the Week fans...see you next year at Planet Magic in Denmark, WI!

Jeebus...between Giambi, Bonds and now McGwire, this has been the most frustrating off-season for baseball press conferences-type stuff EVER.



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Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.01
    Originally posted by wmatistic
      Originally posted by Nag
      I could only catch the last hour or so of the hearings...

      I never thought it would be possible to destroy a tremendous 15 year career in 2 hours, but McGwire succeeded in doing so today, which is sad, cause he has always been a likable guy.


    I just don't see it. Most people already knew he and Sammy and Bonds and many others used. What, do you now think Sosa never used steriods because the words came out of his oversized head? People have known, and pretty much accepted it. I don't think this will end up having any real impact, other than the media going crazy telling us we have to hate him now. Sorry, ain't gonna happen.

    And when someone who needs to make a buck comes forward with a book about how he was Sosa's supplier, McGwire is gonna look that much smarter for not having lied under oath.


I don't think that's true. I'd think that most baseball fans like to think that none of them HAVE taken steroids, and would rather cling to their denial than accept it.

For the stats junkies, if you decide to accept it, then you have to decide whether to go through the record books and start marking asterisks next to all those players on steroids or just to accept that any true comparison of one player to another is going to have that "With or without steroids?" question looming over you.

And for baseball's longtime "Family" support... ugh. If your son told you he wanted to grow up and play baseball and be like Mark McGwire, wouldn't that make your stomach turn?

"Well son, you can't grow up to be like Mark McGwire, or Sammy Sosa, or Barry Bonds."
"Why's that dad?"
"Cause they got to where they are today by taking steroids."
"So I can't grow up to be a great baseball player without taking steroids?"
"Apparently."


-Jag



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SC
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Since: 11.12.01
From: Valparaiso, IN

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.80
    Originally posted by Jaguar
    I'd think that most baseball fans like to think that none of them HAVE taken steroids, and would rather cling to their denial than accept it.


Well, you might be surprised then. Most of the reaction, other than how sad and frustrating it all is (also how stupid it all is), is basically, "No shit McGwire took steroids." But McGwire has not admitted at all, which leads me to saying that who knows when McGwire took steroids - he may have taken them in the early 90s when he wasn't doing anything. Everyone knows he was on andro and creatine and such later, he's admitted it because it was legal.


    For the stats junkies, if you decide to accept it, then you have to decide whether to go through the record books and start marking asterisks next to all those players on steroids or just to accept that any true comparison of one player to another is going to have that "With or without steroids?" question looming over you.


Do you truly believe there has never been cheating that enhanced stats before? Is it harder to hit a home run on steroids than it is to make someone swing and miss at a spitball? How many bats have been corked over the years? Steroids/etc. are not the first instance of cheating numbers, and Jim Bunning's ridiculous, senile testimony yesterday should be stricken from the record as it basically amounted to good ol' days B.S.


    And for baseball's longtime "Family" support... ugh. If your son told you he wanted to grow up and play baseball and be like Mark McGwire, wouldn't that make your stomach turn?

    "Well son, you can't grow up to be like Mark McGwire, or Sammy Sosa, or Barry Bonds."
    "Why's that dad?"
    "Cause they got to where they are today by taking steroids."
    "So I can't grow up to be a great baseball player without taking steroids?"
    "Apparently."


As they are the only three players in the world! Kids grew up wanting to be Pete Rose or Darryl Strawberry or Doc Gooden or blah blah blah. These men (all convicted and charged with nothing thus far, mind you) are not the first heroes of children to break their hearts or let them down or screw up, and they won't be the last either. Life's hard.



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Since: 21.2.02
From: ORLANDO

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.40
24 hours post mortem, umpteen columns, and I still believe that 98.4 % of the people in the sports media didn't watch much more than the sound bytes played on ESPN.

I'm a sucker for this type of thing. I didn't think my faith in elected officials could sink much lower than the Indecency Hearing. I couldn't care less re: budgets or war - if Congress wants to act like a gang of raped peacocks on those issues, so be it. But what I saw yesterday should have everyone one of these "elected officials" thrown overboard with a pork barrel tied to each leg

The players:

Sammy Sosa - was suckered into this on really bad advice and not only made a mockery of the English language, but will be the first one they come back to with a perjury rap

Frank Thomas - appeared via technology and said nothing. Like his career...you go to him and can't count on him, much less find him with a search warrant when the chips are down

Curt Schilling - fuck him. I have held Schilling in very high regard for about 10 years now, watching him carry a lousy Phillies team away from historic record of defeat for many years. I was glad when he got out of town and thrilled when he got another ring...I've considered him the best pitcher in baseball, when it matters, for the same ten years and always respected that he spoke his mind on issues from steroids to umpires to whatever you ask him. He kicked me in the balls with his lame, bend over and fuck me comments in front of Congress. I thought he was on to something when started howling about Canseco, but knew he would turn into a bitch when he didn't punch him in the face. And he did - turn into a bitch. He has lost all of my respect and I hope...damn they have a DH in the AL. We've got Interleague play.

Rafael Palmeiro - bow howdy. "I AM NOT A CROOK". His only saving grace is knowing from Viagra, which means he * may* know Bob Dole. He is going to need friends in the right places when the shit hits the fan

Mark McGwire - did what was right and is being crucified for it. I'll get to the lame, "cry for my son" parents in a second...but Mac, regardless of what people say now, did what you are supposed to when the Feds put the heat on you with no evidence to back their case. They *want* you to roll over like a well trained dog - in a related point, Robert Blake is now a free man because the prosecutors had no *real evidence*. Big Mac should have told them to get fucked. And he did, kind of - but he did it in a way that the ignorant sports press will hold this against him...all the while thinking they hold the cards when it comes time for Hall of Fame Inductions. Which they do, technically - but if the record books say 71 / 583, the "experts" can rot in hell. I guess legends / Hall of Famers that were speed junkies don't count as "cheaters". Nevermind the drunks.

and finally... a 2nd rate player and a first rate asshole, Jose Canseco -

He is the root of all this - a book of lies (maybe, maybe not - I go with "lie" until I see "fact") done solely for the purpose of making a buck and a quick shot of fame. Ok -he is in Washington and owes the IRS a boatload of change -I didn't see him Gestapoed out of the hearing. Which is what would have happened to the "regular guy" that the Congress tried to lay on America as their "ace in the hole" when it came time to make the scene with the power brokers of Baseball. That came on around 7:30 est. And that is where the fun begins.

Canseco's book has sold well - if he cared (which he doesn't) he would give the royalties to charity (which he won't)...he has always been jealous of McGwire, is on the record saying as much and - to show what a jerk he is - he discredited and recanted on almost half of what he published in his book when he lied through his teeth (and under oath) to Congress. Where was the IRS?

The Parents:

So, everyone bends over backwards to apologize for nothing they did (and that got really good when the Big Four were called). Woe is them. Unfortunately were are a sympathetic society and "feel their pain". Those of us that don't puke anyway...it's Baseball's fault that the parents could not handle their child? I'll go out on a limb and say they always wanted their child to succeed, from the first time they realized a "scout" wanted him for his talent. Pot of Gold at the end of the rainbow - now they want to lay the blame on "role models" for their 1) greed and 2) not paying attention until it's too late...but hell, they got sympathy, and most likely a book deal out of it. Or Interviews. In this case, I hope they are robbed blind by a Lawyer and Ripped Off by a Crooked Accountant. If their "boy" would have been a success, he most likely would have written a book and appeared in front of Congress...the apple always falls close to the tree and if one alligator tear is shed for these people, it's too much

I guess I'll come back later and type about the the good stuff. A gang of thieves attempting to castrate a Cartel of Four. Quick point - for all the crowing they did about Baseball not having their shit together, why did every member of Congress (saving one, the old lady) take more than their alloted five (5) minutes? Rules are rules...sometimes

FLEA

Quick edit - posted after me

Scott Christ (Happy Bday! Late! 23? weren't you 26 five years ago?):

Do you truly believe there has never been cheating that enhanced stats before? Is it harder to hit a home run on steroids than it is to make someone swing and miss at a spitball? How many bats have been corked over the years? Steroids/etc. are not the first instance of cheating numbers, and Jim Bunning's ridiculous, senile testimony yesterday should be stricken from the record as it basically amounted to good ol' days B.S.

Right on. Bunning as a "baseball point of view expert" is about as credible as OJ, the Golf Pro. I say we put together a list of the Hall of Famers that were (or could be considerd now) cheats. Perry. Mantle. Your turn. (do it)

FLEA

(edited by RYDER FAKIN on 18.3.05 2110)

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Crimedog
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Since: 28.3.02
From: Ohio

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.57
Well, let's see. First of all, nobody before 1947 had to play against black players _ or any other minorities, really _ so I guess all those records need to be thrown out. We should really tack on another 10 years or so, because black players didn't suddenly become commonplace overnight. So everything before 1957 should be pitched.

Players have used amphetamines pretty much since they've been around, so I guess all those players should be thrown out of the HOF and their records stricken from the books. That'll take another chunk of them.

Gaylord Flippin' Perry is in the Hall of Fame. The same man who gleefully told anyone who would listen how he threw spitballs.

The Yankees, up until about 1970, blatantly abused the lesser teams in the American League by basically bullying them into giving them their best players _ including Roger Maris, by the way _ by bribing teams in financial trouble and using puppet commissioners to get their way. So I guess all those titles the Yankees won before about 1970 or so should be tossed.

The 1986 Mets had several players who have admitted, publicly, to illicit drug use. Congratulations, Red Sox! You've now won TWO World Series titles since 1918.

Several players, including some greats, have been busted for drugs, so they're gone. And, of course, any player that ever got arrested for DUI or assault or domestic violence or anything else should have their records purged.

My point, which I could be making in a rather heavy-handed way, is that anybody who thinks that baseball was always pure and just before steroids came along is a damn fool. And besides, steroids CERTAINLY don't help you hit a baseball. Barry Bonds isn't a great hitter because he's muscular; he's great because he has freaky hand-eye coordination and remarkable athleticism. There's lots of muscle-bound freaks out there that can't hit a baseball. Yet a guy like Tony Gwynn _ who will never, God willing, pose for Playgirl _ has a .338 career average.

And as for the role model argument, first of all, there are PLENTY of players that kids can look up to that obviously aren't using steroids. Ken Griffey Jr.? Ichiro Suzuki? Albert Pujols? Vladimir Guerrero? Randy Johnson? Pedro Martinez? John Smoltz? Jeff Bagwell? Eric Gagne? Anybody think those guys are on the gas? Secondly, people who use illegal means to get ahead are not worthy of being idolized anyway, regardless of what they do for a living.

Now, the hearings themselves. McGwire did the smart thing; there was no way for him to win. It didn't matter if he's never taken a steroid in his life. This was a witch hunt, plain and simple. And Sammy Sosa better be telling the freaking truth, because lieing to Congress is not a good idea. And was anybody else offended by his whole "Me no speaky English" routine? I've seen this guy answer long, thoughtful questions with long, thoughtful answers plenty of times. Now, all of a sudden, he can't understand the question?
skorpio17
Morcilla








Since: 11.7.02
From: New Jersey

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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.81
    Originally posted by Crimedog


    And as for the role model argument, first of all, there are PLENTY of players that kids can look up to that obviously aren't using steroids. Ken Griffey Jr.? Ichiro Suzuki? Albert Pujols? Vladimir Guerrero? Randy Johnson? Pedro Martinez? John Smoltz? Jeff Bagwell? Eric Gagne? Anybody think those guys are on the gas? Secondly, people who use illegal means to get ahead are not worthy of being idolized anyway, regardless of what they do for a living.




For past steroid use, I'd call out Griffey and Bagwell. If we are talking about players currnetly on the juice we can narrow the list down a lot. I've heard 50% of players used steroids and that's a lot more accurate than the 5-7% that tested positive in the announced and easy to pass drug test.

Also why throw the records out when EVERYONE was taking steroids. That makes eveyone on an even playing field with everyone else. Steroid use isn't confined to outfielders and first basemen. If you're telling me none of the pitchers in baseball were taking steroids I don't buy it. Guys in their late 30's early 40's are still throwing in the high 90's. Roided up hitters were hitting off roided up pitchers.

Who says Congress can't accomplish something by forcing MLB into a tough Olympic style testing?
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Remember, his mother was "kidnapped" last year, so Ugie might not be associating with the best people in the world. Always knew he was an arsonist though from his Red Sox days. And of course, he used the cutter to set up the gas.
- redsoxnation, Do NOT F*(K with Ugeth Urbina (2005)
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