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Mr Shh
Toulouse








Since: 9.1.02
From: Bergen County, NJ

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 day
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.40
Habib Marwan is the luckiest bastard alive to have escaped capture from (1) the Rockland building, (2) his hideout and (3) in his jeep. Buy yourself a lottery ticket man.

The video feed of the rescue team from the wreckage of AF1 was pretty chilling.

Some really good, tense action inside the plant with the unlucky married couple. Shouldn't Jack have had more backup though? Or doesn't he need it cause he's also MacGyver?

I think it's damn cool and pretty touching how much focus the writers are putting on everyday normal folk becoming heroes (or at least acting heroic), what with the brothers who owned the store and the unlucky married couple.

Wow, Charles Logan as President. Just wow. But welcome back Novick!

I'm so confused about Marwan's evil plot. Was the football the ultimate goal all along? Cause Mitch Anderson being successful depended on AF1 being in the right place at the right time. But, if all (or most) of the nuclear power plants experienced meltdown, then surely AF1 would have changed course in order to take Keeler to a safe place. So, if power plant mission was successful, then would Marwan have been satisfied? Or was the power plant mission just a distraction?
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fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3170 days
Last activity: 3170 days
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.80
I remember Marwan saying that he wasn't surprised that they shut down almost all of the nuclear plants. So it probably was a distraction.

Mitch Anderson was certainly close enough to do a direct hit on AF1 but he hit one of the surrounding planes. I suppose that would guarantee that AF1 went down without blowing everything up.

The nuclear football had the transponder in it so Marwan could track it, no matter what happened with Anderson. Marwan now has possession of the launch codes for warheads, which he can launch to start a nuclear war I guess.



"When did they pass a law that says the people who make my sandwich have to be wearing gloves? I'm not comfortable with this. I don't want glove residue all over my food; it's not sanitary. Who knows where these gloves have been?" - George Carlin
whatever
Lap cheong








Since: 12.2.02
From: Cleveland, Ohio

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 hour
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.34
Even more so, would the football have been guaranteed to survive, say if the plane hadn't been hit just right?

Marwan kept his word. *He* wasn't going to hurt the couple! However, I can't understand the wife at that point. If terrorists get the case, they'll clearly kill them both anyway, and probably lead to the deaths of untold others. If they hide out/hold out, then the terrorists (theoretically) would have to keep them alive to find the football. Really sucked to be the husband either way.

Tony and Michelle - the reconciliation can't be too far behind after Tony's chat with Buchanan.

So, given Novick and ??? (aide/assistant guy)'s conversation, are they maneuvering some of this stuff around? Their comments on the Prez-to-be seemed fishy.

Overall I still enjoy the show, just feels like it requires a bit more suspension of reality to enjoy it.



"Lita holds a Stone Cold Steve Austin home pregnancy test. What will the Bottom Line say? “Hell Yeah” or “Eh-EH”?" - Raw Satire, 6/15/04
(Apparantly ours said "Hell Yeah", 03/08/05)

The Yak
Polska kielbasa








Since: 4.10.03

Since last post: 2982 days
Last activity: 2185 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.10
    Originally posted by whatever
    Marwan kept his word. *He* wasn't going to hurt the couple!


All I could think when he told his underling to kill them was "what a dick." It was so unintentionally funny.

Big ups to Bill Buchanan. That was just a good "guy to guy" thing to do, to put his ego aside like that and be upfront with Tony. I do hope a reconciliation is in the cards, but knowing this show, one of them may get killed before it happens.

This episode was just another reason why I love the split-screen gimmick. One shot shows Tony, the other shows the VP...both are relatively quiet...then the next one shows Jack in a gunfight with shells whizzing past him. It's just a good use of contrast on this show.

I also love it how Jack has nobody going against him. He straight up tells Buchanan, Michelle, and Tony what to do and they just do it, probably based (at least in Michelle and Tony's cases) on the fact that they know he is always right. Of course, according to the previews for next week, it looks like he may have some resistance....



The Vile1
Lap cheong








Since: 4.9.02
From: California

Since last post: 1920 days
Last activity: 1652 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.25
    Originally posted by Mr Shh
    I think it's damn cool and pretty touching how much focus the writers are putting on everyday normal folk becoming heroes (or at least acting heroic), what with the brothers who owned the store and the unlucky married couple.


I dunno. To me the patriotic Arab shop owners felt like a way for the makers of the show to mitigate the complaints of the civil rights groups complaining about the content. It just seemed really heavy-handed and unsubtle to me.

Really cool to see Mike Novick back, once again acting very shady. When push came to shove though in season 2, he did the right, albeit after he let a lot of bad shit happen.

From what I understand I need to learn the spoiler tags lest I get banned!

(edited by The Vile1 on 12.4.05 1259)

(edited by CRZ on 12.4.05 1520)


"Don't compare my arm...to your cheap arm!"
-Edward Elric
Dahak
Frankfurter








Since: 12.5.02
From: Junction City OR.

Since last post: 1934 days
Last activity: 1587 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.20
    Originally posted by Mr Shh


    I'm so confused about Marwan's evil plot. Was the football the ultimate goal all along? Cause Mitch Anderson being successful depended on AF1 being in the right place at the right time. But, if all (or most) of the nuclear power plants experienced meltdown, then surely AF1 would have changed course in order to take Keeler to a safe place. So, if power plant mission was successful, then would Marwan have been satisfied? Or was the power plant mission just a distraction?


I don't honestly think that writers knew where this was going when the season started. I think they had DOD gets kidnapped and nuclear plants melt down.
Like you said when they stole the morphing F-16/F117 there was no way to know where AF1 was going to be. The POTUS easily could have gone to somewhere else. Hell, if would have landed sooner they would bave been screwed. Plus a direct hit in an unlucky place easily could have blown up the football.
I like 24 and love it when Bauer goes on a killing spree. But you are a lot better off not actually thinking about things.



Marge I am just trying to get into heaven not run for Jesus.
rockdotcom_2.0
Frankfurter








Since: 9.1.02
From: Virginia Beach Va

Since last post: 489 days
Last activity: 105 days
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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.71
I agree with Dahak. Im a believer in "suspension of disbelief" but the last two episodes have taken a turn into the absolute impossible. Its just not possible for an F-117 to shoot down any plane let alone Air Force One. It simply cannot be done. That aside, the "Football" doesnt work that way. Theres nothing in there that can be used to detonate any nuclear weapons. Nor are the locations really that secret. Across Wyoming, Montana and the Dakotas there are about 10,000 holes in the ground with ICBMs in them. You dont need the football for that. But I am a military geek, so the average person doesnt know these things, but for me personally the show is just too impossible to believe now.



"I could be wrong, but I doubt it"---Charles Barkley
thecubsfan
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 30 min.
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00

    I don't honestly think that writers knew where this was going when the season started. I think they had DOD gets kidnapped and nuclear plants melt down.


The articles before and early in the season about the show said they were working mostly episode to episode and didn't have much future stuff scripted, so you're probably right.



thecubsfan.com - CMLLBlog
SEADAWG
Boudin rouge
Moderator








Since: 5.7.03

Since last post: 541 days
Last activity: 1 day
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.67
I remember a Kiefer interview just before the season started that said they were already up to episode 14 in terms of the writing. The one that just ran was #17. What that means, I don't know.

Marwan, who's like an Evil Terrorist Bizzaro-Jack at this point, must have somebody in the government working with him. That probably goes back to the "the President's on a tight schedule" line that an episode ended with a few weeks ago, if not the fact that he was able to track the nuclear football. Would he need insider help for that? I dunno. But if Marwan knew the President's movements, then ordering the attack should have been easy. The President was supposed to keep flying around indefinitely, it was only when he went against the advice of everyone at CTU that the notion of landing the plane came up.

That doesn't explain how he'd know that the football would survive the crash, though. Maybe the case is that same steel that they made Brutus Beefcake's facemask out of after Money Inc. hit him in the head.

And maybe I'm misunderstanding what rdc_2.0 was saying, but I don't think they're saying that just the football by itself will let them blow up nukes as though there's a button in it that Marwan could push or something. He'll still have to get posession of a nuke to detonate it with the codes he stole. Or does that not work either?

WHERE'S BEHROOZ?!?
The Yak
Polska kielbasa








Since: 4.10.03

Since last post: 2982 days
Last activity: 2185 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.10
    Originally posted by SEADAWG
    WHERE'S BEHROOZ?!?


Good question. If I were writing the show, I'd have him escape, help out CTU, get pardoned, and then get shot by Debbie's mom in the finale. That's probably a bit soapish, but what the hell.

I just watched it again. I'm not so sure about this Logan, either. He seems all "Oh, shit, am I going to have to make a decision?" Maybe his aide is right in that he's just being cautious. We'll see...

Oh, and did that helicopter run the Jeep off of the bridge by shining its spotlight at the driver? If so, that is awesome, but not as awesome as Jack "the MacGyver of death" Bauer setting off his own gun sound-a-like, luring that guy into a false sense of security. Awesome.



SchippeWreck
Banger








Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, CA

Since last post: 20 hours
Last activity: 28 min.
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.53
    Originally posted by The Yak
    ...not as awesome as Jack "the MacGyver of death" Bauer setting off his own gun sound-a-like, luring that guy into a false sense of security. Awesome.

Which, while awesome, paled in comparison to the ensuing...

Jack: "Hey."
Terrorist Thug: "Hmm?"
BANG!



rockdotcom_2.0
Frankfurter








Since: 9.1.02
From: Virginia Beach Va

Since last post: 489 days
Last activity: 105 days
AIM:  
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.71
    Originally posted by SEADAWG
    He'll still have to get posession of a nuke to detonate it with the codes he stole. Or does that not work either?


No it doesnt.



"I could be wrong, but I doubt it"---Charles Barkley
Dahak
Frankfurter








Since: 12.5.02
From: Junction City OR.

Since last post: 1934 days
Last activity: 1587 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.20
    Originally posted by rockdotcom_2.0
    I agree with Dahak. Im a believer in "suspension of disbelief" but the last two episodes have taken a turn into the absolute impossible. Its just not possible for an F-117 to shoot down any plane let alone Air Force One. It simply cannot be done. That aside, the "Football" doesnt work that way. Theres nothing in there that can be used to detonate any nuclear weapons. Nor are the locations really that secret. Across Wyoming, Montana and the Dakotas there are about 10,000 holes in the ground with ICBMs in them. You dont need the football for that. But I am a military geek, so the average person doesnt know these things, but for me personally the show is just too impossible to believe now.


Wasn't the F-117 originally supposed to shoot down the Soviet version of an AWACS so that the more efective F-15 and F-16 could pretty much go in and kick Russian ass from a distance? Plus AF1 sure did suck didn't it? I figure since it costs about 10 times more than a regular 747 that it had some type of defenses like seatbelts or something.
Also you are correct about knowing where the nukes are. It's not like it's difficult to know where they are just look on the internet and you could probably find out. While I am basing 90% of this "knowledge" on Tom Clancy doesn't firing a nuke require the authorization of at least 2 people? The POTUS and one of a couple hundred other people like all those Secretaries and those other appointed by Congress types.



Marge I am just trying to get into heaven not run for Jesus.
rockdotcom_2.0
Frankfurter








Since: 9.1.02
From: Virginia Beach Va

Since last post: 489 days
Last activity: 105 days
AIM:  
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.71
The F-117 was designed to penetrate Soviet Air defenses and blow up high value targets on the ground. It doesnt have air to air capability because that would require a radar system that could be used to track the aircraft. In other words, to "lock on" to another plane would make a stealth fighter very visible to any radar.

Plus AF1 has numerous electronic defenses that can throw off most any missile, in the event that an enemy aircraft could find it and engage it. Also people know from 9/11 that the when the President is in danger and/or America is under attack Air Force One starts zigzagging all over the sky to throw off anyone who may be trying to track it and makes it way a safe ground location most likely Offutt Air Force base in Nebraska or any other Secure bunker location. it is ridiculous for the show to imply that the President would fly somewhere like LA where the terrorists are currently being pursued, to make some kind of silly speech. It just wouldnt happen. Bush didnt fly to New York City on 9/11 did he? And He didnt come back to DC until they were absolutely sure there was no danger in doing so.

And the firing of nukes does take the orders of the president and another Senior Cabinet Official or High ranking Air Force officer, Either the head of NORAD or US Stategic Command. I think NORAD can fire nukes without the Presidents direct approval in a defensive capacity but Im not sure on that.



"I could be wrong, but I doubt it"---Charles Barkley
DrHogie
Cotechino








Since: 2.1.02
From: Starkville, MS

Since last post: 454 days
Last activity: 453 days
AIM:  
ICQ:  
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.28
Brewguy got me watching this show around episode 11 and I've been a complete total mark for it ever since. Between the two of us (mainly Brewguy), we think we've hit on a possible explanation for everything. Now, to see if I have this spoiler tag thingy right . . .


Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read

SecDef Heller has rubbed Brew wrong since the beginning. And it finally hit him . . .

What if SecDef and Novak are working together . . . . . and they paid/helped Marwan this entire time?

Maybe they hired him, maybe they helped him setup his cells throughout the country. As soon as the President was set to come to LA, SecDef "left" to go meet with him, and hasn't been seen since then. The only mention from him was his phone call to Audrey to take Jack off the Presidential search and to go find the football -- specifically, for Jack to go find the football. You see, after the entire mess in Iraq, one could argue that our country's mindset towards defense is weakening. And as SecDef, he would want to get as much funding as possible -- to make our country stronger. So why not aide a terrorist cell with information and let them do more damage to this country than ever before? Surely that would scare the American people, and give him more money to make this country safer than it ever has been before.

Of course, we don't want to kill millions of Americans. So, we make sure CTU stays pretty close on his trail. And since McClendon-Forrester is a major major Defense contractor, we'll need their help . . . so they hire Marwan. But, we don't want ANY traces of this found, and there would have to be files . . . hence the EMP. Not just to erase tracks of Marwan, but also of any ties between DoD<->M-F<->Marwan. And how else to make everything convincing but to have himself kidnapped?

Of course, to shoot down AF1, we'd need to make sure we could get a Stealth Fighter . . . so we help out Marwan by getting him in contact with Anderson, and getting them the information they need to get the Stealth in the air. Could Heller have even told Anderson "If you don't do this, I'll have your sister killed?" She was found by the FBI, and did want Mitch to know she was scared . . .

Summed up by Brewguy:
SecDef: "In one day, terrorists kidnapped me, almost took down every nuclear power plant, almost assassinated the President, and stolen the most confidential of US property, it's nuclear weapon locations and codes."
SecDef: "WE NEED MORE DEFENSE."
VP: "I agree 'cause I'm spineless and controlled by Novac"

Is it farfetched? You betcha. But hell -- playing What If is always fun




--DrH
EddieBurkett
Boudin blanc








Since: 3.1.02
From: GA in person, NJ in heart

Since last post: 11 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.15
I'm putting this in spoilers only because its a reply to the above theory, in spoilers.


Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
I've thought about Heller as being involved too, because like BrewGuy, he's rubbed me the wrong way, but if he is involved, his kidnapping makes no sense. Specifically, the part where he and Audrey were able to sneak out of their cage and he got an AK-47 and started shooting terrorists. If he was working with them, why do that? It wasn't for the benefit of acting, since the only person who would have seen that was Audrey. I wouldn't put it past him to be willing to die for his country, but the only way his actions earlier in the day make sense is if it was his plan all along to be rescued (although, even then, in that context, his escape attempt doesn't fit). I agree that too much is going on for there not to be a mole in the government, but if they reveal Heller as being a villain, then the writers have finally gone too far. (Not that they aren't close with the plotholes mentioned above...)




"Now that you've built up the courage to get into the gym, let me give you five reasons why you should put in the time to train with consistency: 1. Increased strength 2. Improved self-confidence 3. Injury prevention 4. Self-discipline 5. Sex (Trust me, you'll have a better shot with the ladies if you're in shape.)" -- Making the Game, pp. 14 - 15
DrHogie
Cotechino








Since: 2.1.02
From: Starkville, MS

Since last post: 454 days
Last activity: 453 days
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ICQ:  
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.28
EddieBurkett,
I missed all episodes before 10 or 11, and I'm just now getting a chance to watch the series from the beginning (but ugh -- so much Driscoll). But you bring up a really good point . . .


Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read

But if Audrey isn't in on it, and she is seeing Jack, who could ruin Heller's entire operation, then he would need to act. And -- I'm sure Marwan would agree -- what's a few toadies dying in the greater name of Allah? EDIT: As we've seen, Marwan's plan is to not have the different cells know anything about each other. So he may have setup that entire cell to die (again, I haven't seen the actual rescue.)

I have seen up to where Heller and Audrey were captured, and Heller starts putting on the waaaaay-overblown-YOU-DO-NOT-SCARE-ME-*shakes his old fist at them* routine. The whole deal was awfullllly overblown, to me. I was trying to work up to the rescue scene, but Erin Driscoll's doing a damn good job of single-handedly making the episodes not worth watching


(edited by DrHogie on 14.4.05 1726)


--DrH
EddieBurkett
Boudin blanc








Since: 3.1.02
From: GA in person, NJ in heart

Since last post: 11 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.15
We should be able to ditch the spoiler tags since this is all conjecture, but since we've started down this path...


Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
If Audrey wasn't in on it, surely Heller could have arranged for her to not be involved in his abduction. Even if she was taken unintentionally, again, if Heller was in on it, surely he could have made sure that the terrorists would not harm her. Killing those lackies, and even nearly killing Heller and Audrey with the gas, was way too much of a production just for the sake of tricking his daughter. The way everything went down, it makes no sense for Heller to be involved.




"Now that you've built up the courage to get into the gym, let me give you five reasons why you should put in the time to train with consistency: 1. Increased strength 2. Improved self-confidence 3. Injury prevention 4. Self-discipline 5. Sex (Trust me, you'll have a better shot with the ladies if you're in shape.)" -- Making the Game, pp. 14 - 15
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 17 hours
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.17
I love how this show has conditioned us to believe that ANYONE could be behind it... I'm waiting for a post fingering Edgar Stiles next.


Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
It's quite possible that there isn't a big bad villain...last season, everyone was figuring it would be revealed that someone was behind Saunders in a tie-in to the big conspiracy of Season 2. If this whole season is being written by the seat of the writers' collective pants anyway, it would be pretty hard to shoe-horn in a major twist like this right at the end.




So there I am, in Sri Lanka, formerly Ceylon, at about 3 o'clock in the morning, looking for one thousand brown M&Ms to fill a brandy glass, or Ozzy wouldn't go on stage that night. So, Jeff Beck pops his head 'round the door, and mentions there's a little sweets shop on the edge of town. So - we go. And - it's closed. So there's me, and Keith Moon, and David Crosby, breaking into that little sweets shop, eh. Well, instead of a guard dog, they've got this bloody great big Bengal tiger. I managed to take out the tiger with a can of mace, but the shopkeeper and his son... that's a different story altogether. I had to beat them to death with their own shoes. Nasty business, really, but sure enough I got the M&Ms, and Ozzy went on stage and did a great show.--- Del Preston
whatever
Lap cheong








Since: 12.2.02
From: Cleveland, Ohio

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 hour
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.34
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    I love how this show has conditioned us to believe that ANYONE could be behind it... I'm waiting for a post fingering Edgar Stiles next.

Well, he was a bad cop in "The Usual Suspects". My wife and I were watching that last night, and I had to do the ol' rewind check to see that it was him!

Crazy-arsed situations and coincidences aside, I am interested to see how this all wraps up and who is behind all of this / helping the terrorists. Is Marwan the mastermind behind it all, or does he have help? Why is Novick acting so fishy? Should be an interesting ride for the last few episodes.



"Lita holds a Stone Cold Steve Austin home pregnancy test. What will the Bottom Line say? “Hell Yeah” or “Eh-EH”?" - Raw Satire, 6/15/04
(Apparantly ours said "Hell Yeah", 03/08/05)

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