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The W - Football - 2009 NFL Hall of Fame Class
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Big Bad
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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.63
Bruce Smith, Ralph Wilson, Rod Woodson, Randall McDaniel, Derrick Thomas and Bob Hayes (sports.yahoo.com)

Pretty damn strong induction class. Congrats to all.



Skinner: Well, I was wrong. The lizards are a godsend.
Lisa: But isn't that a bit short-sighted? What happens when we're overrun by lizards?
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Lisa: But aren't the snakes even worse?
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DrewDewce
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Derby City

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Y!:
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.19
Wow. Still no Cris Carter. Strong Defensive class there. Congrats to the players and their fans.

I wonder who will give Derrick Thomas' speech?



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Lexus
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Stafford, VA

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.85
Next year is Emmitt Smith and Jerry Rice, who are shoe-ins, and Tim Brown is also eligible. I doubt Carter gets in then...



"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Frown and the world laughs at you."
-Me.
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.18
It needs to be booked more like the WWE Hall of Fame so they could have Dermontti Dawson going in with the Steelers' Super Bowl instead of Randall McDaniel.
BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.35
I was hoping for Cortez Kennedy. The man was THE nosetackle of the era, even if it was with some of the worst teams of the day.
djp
Morcilla








Since: 16.2.07
From: 3rd Floor, NW window

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.59
    Originally posted by Lexus
    Next year is Emmitt Smith and Jerry Rice, who are shoe-ins, and Tim Brown is also eligible. I doubt Carter gets in then...


I wonder how much Carter's behavior *ON* the field is affecting his chances. He was known as a crybaby because nearly every time he caught a pass he would genture wildly to the nearest official that we as face-masked/interfered with/held or otherwise molested. The image of his arms outreached and that 'NO FLAG!?' look is much more familiar to me that him actually catching the ball.
Lexus
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Stafford, VA

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.85
While I do remember Carter's antics, I mostly remember the move he perfected; the foot drag. Every time I see a reciever catch the ball with his toes barely inbounds as they fall out, I think of him.

I think that while he was good, he simply was not the best reciever of his time, and was behind a few names in those terms. Rice, Brown, Michael Irvin, Art Monk, Sterling Sharpe, Isaac Bruce, and Antonio Freeman all have better claim to the hall. He was great, but there's a line around the corner, so to speak.

Also, I believe he has a hard time getting in for the same reason I don't think Tim Brown will be a first ballot; a lack of jewelry. However, Brown at least has an AFC Championship ring. Carter has nothing.



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odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.34

"all he does is catch touchdowns."



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Peter The Hegemon
Lap cheong








Since: 11.2.03
From: Hackettstown, NJ

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.02
Not that those going in aren't deserving, but are any of them the greatest player ever at their positions? No?

Then they shouldn't have gotten in over Ray Guy.
DrewDewce
Bratwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Derby City

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Y!:
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.19
    Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon
    Not that those going in aren't deserving, but are any of them the greatest player ever at their positions? No?

    Then they shouldn't have gotten in over Ray Guy.


I'll second the Ray Guy "love." When I think of punters, I automatically think of him and he should absolutely be in as he was certainly one of and probably the best ever at his position.



“You are going to get a certain amount of snarkiness on the Internet no matter what, and my rule is that you don't post anything that you wouldn't say to someone's face.”
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bash91
Merguez








Since: 2.1.02
From: Plain Dealing, LA

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.00
    Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon
    Not that those going in aren't deserving, but are any of them the greatest player ever at their positions? No?

    Then they shouldn't have gotten in over Ray Guy.


The only problem with that argument is that Ray Guy isn't anywhere close to being the greatest player ever at his position. If you look at the numbers, Guy's stats just don't hold up as being that good. He's a memorable character, but he's not an HoF'er.

Tim



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brick
Bockwurst








Since: 17.1.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.00
    Originally posted by bash91
      Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon
      Not that those going in aren't deserving, but are any of them the greatest player ever at their positions? No?

      Then they shouldn't have gotten in over Ray Guy.


    The only problem with that argument is that Ray Guy isn't anywhere close to being the greatest player ever at his position. If you look at the numbers, Guy's stats just don't hold up as being that good. He's a memorable character, but he's not an HoF'er.

    Tim


The problem with the Ray Guys stats aren't that good argument, is that it is wrong.

KC Joyner does a good job debunking that myth here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/sports/football/25score.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

and here:

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/26/statistics-leave-no-doubt-ray-guy-should-be-in-the-hall/
MUTigermask
Boudin rouge








Since: 8.10.03
From: Columbia MO

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.93
    Originally posted by DrewDewce
    Wow. Still no Cris Carter. Strong Defensive class there. Congrats to the players and their fans.

    I wonder who will give Derrick Thomas' speech?


Maybe his mother? If not her I'd guess one of Marty Schottenheimer, Carl Peterson, or Neil Smith.
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.89

    Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon
    Not that those going in aren't deserving, but are any of them the greatest player ever at their positions? No?

    Then they shouldn't have gotten in over Ray Guy.


Adam Lingner is the greatest long snapper in the history of the NFL. Should he be in? He played more plays per game than Ray Guy...



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Since: 2.1.02

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.80
    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
      Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon
      Not that those going in aren't deserving, but are any of them the greatest player ever at their positions? No?

      Then they shouldn't have gotten in over Ray Guy.


    Adam Lingner is the greatest long snapper in the history of the NFL. Should he be in? He played more plays per game than Ray Guy...


As soon as you find someone saying he made as much of a contribution to his team as skill position players, the way Raiders players have about Ray Guy, this will be a valid comparison.
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.19
OTOH, the original argument in this thread was in the opposite direction -- that a punter was as great as the non-specialist players who were inducted. I think Guy should be in the HOF, but there's no way that even the greatest punter ever is at the same level as an all-time great cornerback, defensive end, etc. Even if it's the #1 punter ever compared against 'just' a top five ever at his position like Woodson or Bruce Smith.
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.89

    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    As soon as you find someone saying he made as much of a contribution to his team as skill position players, the way Raiders players have about Ray Guy, this will be a valid comparison.


Ask any punter what he thinks about a good long snapper.



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Since: 2.1.02

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.80
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    OTOH, the original argument in this thread was in the opposite direction -- that a punter was as great as the non-specialist players who were inducted. I think Guy should be in the HOF, but there's no way that even the greatest punter ever is at the same level as an all-time great cornerback, defensive end, etc. Even if it's the #1 punter ever compared against 'just' a top five ever at his position like Woodson or Bruce Smith.


Yes, but a punter doesn't have to contribute like Jerry Rice to make a difference. Ray Guy was so much better at his position than anyone else ever and contributed so much more than any punter that you can even conceivably have a conversation in which you compare his role to that of a team's No 2 receiver or running back.

    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
    Ask any punter what he thinks about a good long snapper.


"As soon as you find someone saying he made as much of a contribution to his team as skill position players, the way Raiders players have about Ray Guy, this will be a valid comparison."
Downtown Bookie
Morcilla








Since: 7.4.02
From: The Inner City, Now Living In The Country

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    Ray Guy was so much better at his position than anyone else ever and contributed so much more than any punter....
Presuming, of course, that you exclude Sammy Baugh.

(edited by Downtown Bookie on 4.2.09 2231)

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Rush4Life
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Tacoma, WA

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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.56
I do not have a problem with the class of '09. Woodson was awesome IMO. Loved Bruce Smith to the point that I personally put him near the level of Reggie White. I only say near because it took him 47 more games to get similar stats.

Derrick Thomas was a stud back in the day. I remember watching the game in KC where he recorded the 7 sacks of Dave Krieg and my beloved (yet crappy) Seahawks. He would have gotten 8 had he gotten to him in the 4th quarter when he (Krieg) popped that 25 yard TD pass to Paul Skansi for the win.

That being said, congrats to all of these athletes and otherwise.

(edited by Rush4Life on 4.2.09 2154)


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