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The W - Current Events & Politics - 2002's most annoying liberals
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kazhayashi81
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Since: 17.6.02
From: Buenos Aires, Argentina

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#1 Posted on
I'm sure the Libertarians/Conservatives will find this list funny, and the liberals will find it offensive.

(Source: rightwingnews.com(yeah, real objective, I know))

If being annoying was a crime, there are a lot of liberals who would be sitting on Death Row in Texas waiting for them to crank up "Old Sparky." But until now, these "serial annoyers" have never gotten their proper due. Well, RWN thinks that's a crying shame. That's why we've punched up a list that's designed to celebrate annoying lefties. So get ready, because it's time for the first annual, "Twenty Most Annoying Liberals In The United States For 2002."

Honorable Mentions: Madeline Albright, Robert Altman, Alec Baldwin, Martha Burk, Robert Byrd, James Carville, Noam Chomsky, Hilliary Clinton, Maureen Dowd, Steve Earle, Danny Glover, Ted Kennedy, Paul Krugman, Terry Mcauliffe, Neil Rogers, Al Sharpton, & Ted Turner.

20) Ed Asner: If there's any sort of anti-war gathering that the "stars" are participating in, you can expect Ed Asner to show up somewhere. Yes, crusty, old Lou Grant somehow managed to be a prominent member of the "Not In Our Name" crowd and the "Artists United to Win Without War" despite being a D level celebrity who can only get parts like the voice of an airedale terrier in the children's movie "Here's Looking at You, Kid." If only Asner could fade into obscurity gracefully instead of saying things like...

Defining Quote: (On the American people) "They're sheep. They like him (Bush) enough to credit him with saving the nation after 9/11. Three thousand people get killed, and everybody thinks they're next on the list. The president comes along, and he's got his six-guns strapped on, and people think he's going to save them." -- Ed Asner

19) Amiri Baraka: Let's face it, poets are annoying to begin with. But anti-semitic liberal poets? They're off the charts on the annoyance meter -- especially New Jersey Poet Laureate Amiri Baraka . Here are few lines from his now infamous poem, "Someone Blew Up America."

Who knew the World Trade Center was gonna get bombed
Who told 4000 Israeli workers at the Twin Towers
To stay home that day
Why did Sharon stay away?


Not only did Baraka continue to insist that urban legend he stuck in his poem was true, he showed himself to be completely nuts in an interview with Connie Chung. Here's some of the paranoid ranting from Baraka that Chung's audience was treated to...

Defining Quotes: (Baraka on 9/11) "Well, here's the point. My intention was to show that not only did Israel know, because Israel -- we're talking about 9/11 -- not only did Israel know, but the United States knew. Bush and company..." -- Amiri Baraka

"You're saying that Israel and the United States knew..." -- Connie Chung

"And Germany. -- Amiri Baraka

"...that these attacks were going to occur?" -- Connie Chung

"And Germany and France and Russia and England. And this is confirmed." -- Amiri Baraka

18) Sean Penn: Now how could we have a list of annoying left-wingers without mentioning Spicoli? This week, Penn has been playing useful idiot for the Iraqis. He spent three days puttering around Iraq meeting Iraqi flunkies like some sort of 4th rate Bono. Then when his trip was over, the Baghdad Online News Service claimed, "he [Penn] confirmed that Iraq is completely clear of weapons of mass destruction and the United Nations must adopt a positive stance towards Iraq" which Penn quickly denied. Maybe the peacenik image Penn is trying to project helps him pick-up women at cocktail parties, but the rest of the planet wishes he'd spend more time making his mediocre movies and less time trying to be a cheap Ghandi knock-off.

Defining Quote: "I think that people like the Howard Sterns, the Bill O'Reillys and to a lesser degree the bin Ladens of the world are making a horrible contribution." -- Sean Penn

17) Woody Harrelson: A lot of Hollywood stars love to go to Britain to shoot their mouths off about the United States. Woody Harrelson is a prime example. He wrote an insane column about what he would do if he were President that was published in the Guardian. Some of Woody's ideas included shutting down all nuclear power plants, reviving the Chemurgy movement, and cutting the defense budget in half in the middle of a war. Sheer brilliance!

Woody also went nuts in a cab and had to be run down by 14 British cops, praised Steve Earle for writing a flattering song about traitor John Walker Lindh, and called George Michael "brave" for making an Anti-war/Anti-Blair/Anti-Bush pop song.

Defining Quote: "The war against terrorism is terrorism. The whole thing is just bullsh*t." -- Woody Harrelson

16) Norman Mailer: Like several other vitriolic celebrities, addled coot Norman Mailer spent a good portion of the year in Britain giving stupendously irritating interviews to left-wing British papers. In Mailer's case, he seemed particularly sympathetic to the terrorists who killed almost 3000 people on 9/11...

"The key thing is that we in America are convinced that it was blind, mad fanatics who didn't know what they were doing. But what if those perpetrators were right and we were not? We have long ago lost the capability to take a calm look at the enormity of our enemy's position." -- Norman Mailer

"The WTC was not just an architectural monstrosity, but also terrible for people who didn't work there, for it said to all those people: 'If you can't work up here, boy, you're out of it.' That's why I'm sure that if those towers had been destroyed without loss of life, a lot of people would have cheered. Everything wrong with America led to the point where the country built that tower of Babel, which consequently had to be destroyed. And then came the next shock. We had to realize that the people that did this were brilliant. It showed that the ego we could hold up until September 10 was inadequate." -- Norman Mailer

When he wasn't sucking up to al-Queda, Mailer found time to criticize patriotism in America. Hey Norman, do us a favor and stay in Britain -- no one's going to miss you here.

Defining Quote: "America has an almost obscene infatuation with itself. Has there ever been a big, powerful country that is as patriotic as America? And patriotic in the tinniest way, with so much flag waving? You'd really think we were some poor little republic, and that if one person lost his religion for one hour, the whole thing would crumble. America is the real religion in this country." -- Norman Mailer

15) Jesse Jackson: Like shower mildew or toenail fungus, Jackson never really seems to go away no matter what happens to him. Whether he calls New York "Hymie Town", births a kid out of wedlock, or has an incredibly embarrassing book written about him, Jackson somehow manages to keep springing back into the limelight every time a TV camera gets in his vicinity.

That being said, Jesse didn't have the great year. Pretty much everybody trashed him for criticizing the movie "Barber Shop", Jessie Lee Peterson from BOND has been publicly ripping him all year long, & Jackson had to call off a meeting with the terrorist group Hamas because they murdered a several Americans right before they were scheduled to speak with him. Fortunately, Jackson's power is on the wane and hopefully he won't even make this list next year. Since Jackson was such a joke this year, that should be reflected in his defining quote...

Defining Quote: "Jesse Jackson is upset about scenes in the new movie "Barber Shop.” I guess there’s some jokes made about civil rights leaders like himself and Rosa Parks. Rosa was asked about the movie and said she was upset – but it wasn’t because of the scenes, it was because she went to the theater to see it and the place was full and she couldn’t find a seat." -- Jay Leno

14) Michael Moore: Few people play faster and looser with the facts than Moore. But no matter how many times he gets busted fudging numbers or just making things up, it doesn't dent his popularity on the left. From his hastily removed, "Years From Now They'll Call It, 'Payback Tuesday'' article that predicted big Democratic wins in 2002, to his complaints that the media is against him despite having the International Documentary Association name "Bowling for Columbine" the best documentary ever made, Moore never ceases to annoy.

Defining Quote: "Every would-be oppositionist in the country has lined up to blow Moore every since he put out the amazing film Roger and Me, anointing him as a leading political figure and a brilliant creative mind even though he's been an unfunny, egomaniacal blowhard for over ten years now. Moore wears his dissident credentials not on his sleeve, but on his head and his waistline: his mesh baseball cap and fat body are now the leading brand-ID marker for political discontent among the narrow, incestuous "enlightened left" demographic." -- From The Beast, Most Loathsome People in America, 2002

13) Gore Vidal: Crazed lunatic Gore Vidal said so many outrageous things that you only need to read some of his quotes from a single interview to see that he deserves a spot on the list...

"The government] plays off [Americans'] relative innocence, or ignorance to be more precise. This is probably why geography has not really been taught since World War II -- to keep people in the dark as to where we are blowing things up. Because Enron wants to blow them up. Or Unocal, the great pipeline company, wants a war going some place." -- Gore Vidal in the LA Weekly

"The current junta in charge of our affairs, one not legally elected, but put in charge of us by the Supreme Court in the interests of the oil and gas and defense lobbies, have used first Oklahoma City and now September 11 to further erode things." -- Gore Vidal in the LA Weekly

And here's Vidal's master stroke of idiocy...

Defining Quote: "Well, he (Bush) might as well have been bombing Denmark. Denmark had nothing to do with 9/11. And neither did Afghanistan, at least the Afghanis didn't." -- Gore Vidal in the LA Weekly

12) Harry Belafonte: Harry Belafonte ripped into Colin Powell earlier this year and for all intents and purposes called him a "house n*gger". Listening to a washed up loser like Belafonte criticize Powell was a joke. Powell is the son of an immigrant who received a Purple Heart and the Bronze Star in Vietnam, became the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, helped plan out the Gulf War, and became the first black Secretary of State. On the other hand, Belafonte is most famous for singing "Banana Boat (Day-O)" in 1956. In the game of life, Belafonte couldn't carry Powell's jock strap. But as per usual when Conservative blacks are attacked, it was up to the right to defend Powell while the left and the Civil Rights Establishment either ignored Belafonte's attacks or nodded along like bobblehead dolls. How typical of the left to turn a blind eye to this sort of idiocy...

Defining Quote: "There's an old saying. In the days of slavery, there were those slaves who lived on the plantation and were those slaves that lived in the house. You got the privilege of living in the house if you served the master... exactly the way the master intended to have you serve him.

"Colin Powell's committed to come into the house of the master. When Colin Powell dares to suggest something other than what the master wants to hear, he will be turned back out to pasture." -- Harry Belafonte on Colin Powell.

PS: Could this video be what actually made Belafonte so angry?

11) Bill Clinton: Foreign policy failure Bill Clinton has a lot of nerve publicly giving George Bush advice about how to handle the war on terrorism. The current Palestinian Intifada started on his watch, North Korea revealed that they lied to Clinton and kept their nuclear program going, the "Black Hawk Down" incident happened in Somalia while Clinton was in charge, China stole a lot of military technology from us, Clinton turned down an offer from Sudan to hand over Bin Laden back in 96, and very little was done about terrorism or Iraq during Clinton's eight years in office. Now that Bush is trying to clean up all the messes Clinton left him, it seems like we can't go a week without Bubba handing out foreign policy advice to the Bush administration. Then there was Clinton's assertion that the GOP "got a majority in the South" because of racism and perhaps the most obvious lie I've ever heard a politician tell...

Defining Quote: "The Israelis know that if the Iraqi or Iranian army came across the Jordan River, I would personally grab a rifle, get in a ditch and fight and die." -- Bill Clinton at a Jewish fundraiser in Toronto this summer.

10) Tom Daschle: Even Bill Clinton didn't stick his finger up in the air and go whichever way the polls seemed to be leaning as often as Tom Daschle did this year. Plus, he always seemed to be "disappointed" as a kid who got nothing but socks for Christmas. You knew Daschle was "disappointed" because he talked about how "disappointed" he was constantly, usually with something the Bush administration was doing.

Then there was his claim that Bush was "politicizing" the war (as if Daschle wasn't) and his outburst on the Senate floor about Bush correctly pointing out (although he was talking about the Homeland Security Department, not the war) that the Democrats were, "not interested in the security of the American people." Last but not least, there was Daschle's laughable attempt to demonize talk radio by claiming that he was getting death threats because Rush Limbaugh called him an "obstructionist"...

Defining Quote: "When I was accused of being an obstructionist, there was a corresponding and very significant increase in the number of issues (threats) that my family and I had to deal with." -- Tom Daschle

9) Cynthia McKinney: Ah, there are so many reasons to detest Cynthia McKinney. First and foremost among them was her suggestion that George Bush stood by and deliberately allowed 9/11 to happen so "(p)ersons close to this administration" could make money.

"We know there were numerous warnings of the events to come on September 11th...What did this administration know and when did it know it, about the events of September 11th? Who else knew, and why did they not warn the innocent people of New York who were needlessly murdered? What do they have to hide? Persons close to this administration are poised to make huge profits off America's new war."

Then when the stridently pro-Palestinian McKinney got into a tough primary race, anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan was trotted out to campaign for her. The day before McKinney went down in flames, her father was asked why things weren't going well for his daughter's campaign. His reply was, "Jews have bought everybody. Jews. J-E-W-S." McKinney will not be missed.

Defining Quote: "Ding Dong, The Witch Is Dead!" -- The headline that went up on RWN when McKinney lost her congressional seat.

8) Ted Rall: The words, "bad natured punk" describe Ted Rall as well as any. What else can you say about a guy who made fun of the widows who had husbands murdered in the 9/11 attacks? Rall even took what appeared to be a direct shot at Daniel Pearl's wife in the cartoon. Then there was his insane column suggesting that the GOP killed Paul Wellstone. Apparently this sort of crass lunacy pays off since Rall has his cartoons carried by the New York Times and his columns carried by Yahoo.

Defining Quote: "By the way, (here's a) money-saving tip for Ted Rall's syndicate: Just lock a fatherless 8th-grader in a room with nothing but a black crayon and a copy of The Communist Manifesto. The results will be just as publishable." -- Jim Treacher On Ted Rall

7) Bruce Ratner: On 9/11, three firefighters, Dan McWilliams, George Johnson and William Eisengrein, raised an American flag in the wreckage of the WTC. It was a memorable, touching act that that resonated with the American public. That's why many people thought that a statue depicting that moment was an appropriate first memorial to the 343 fire fighters and emergency medical personnel who died at the WTC site.

Then the donor for the statue, Bruce Ratner, ruined everything by insisting that the memorial had to feature one white, one black and one Hispanic instead of the three men who actually raised the flag. Because of his insane political correctness, Ratner managed to turn what should have been a heart-warming memorial into an ugly, race-related controversy. Eventually, because of the outcry from the public, that memorial to political correctness, not the brave people who died, was abandoned.

Defining Quote: "If they wanted to make this kind of monument, they could've taken the Twin Towers, and could've had the people lined up around it, all the emergency workers, all the ethnic groups in that monument, sort of like what they did with the Vietnam Memorial Monument down in Washington, DC. With this, they took an actual picture of what happened and changed the ethnic background just out of political correctness. You know what, that's wrong." -- An anonymous fireman quoted by National Review.

6) David 'Bin' Bonior (D - Iraq) and 'Baghdad' Jim McDermott (D - Iraq): What can you really say about two Democratic Congressmen running around in Iraq telling the world that Saddam Hussein can be trusted and George Bush can't? It was unconscionable for Bonior and McDermott to have been in effect doing free public relations work for a murderous tyrant like Saddam Hussein even though they knew that our military forces were going to be putting their lives on the line fighting against Saddam in the upcoming months.

Defining Quotes: "I think the president would mislead the American people" -- Jim McDermott in Iraq

"They said they would allow us to go look anywhere we wanted and until they don't do that, there is no need to do this coercive stuff where you bring in helicopters and armed people and storm buildings. Otherwise you're just trying to provoke them into war." -- Jim McDermott in Iraq

"We've got to move forward in a way that's fair and impartial. That means not having the United States or the Iraqis dictate the rules to these inspections." -- While in Iraq, David Bonior forgets which country he respresents and tries to be impartial.

5) Al Gore: In all of my life, I've never heard someone incessantly whine as much as Gore did about the 2000 elections. Gore talked about how unfair it was that he lost in interviews, while he was campaigning for Democratic candidates in 2002, and it even came up over and over again in the episode of Saturday Night Live he did. It was so bad that I wished someone, Bill Clinton, Tipper, Janet Reno, anyone, would grab Gore by the lapels, shake him and scream, "You lost the election! Get over it already you big baby!"

Couple Gore's incessant complaining with his flip-flops on national health care and the invasion of Iraq, along with his shrill carping about the Bush administration and you have one annoying lefty. Gore even went so far as to call the Taliban a "fifth-rate military power" in one of his rants which inspired Charles Krauthammer to respond as follows...

Defining Quote: "The tone of the speech is best reflected in Gore's contemptuous dismissal of the U.S. victory in Afghanistan as "defeating a fifth-rate military power." If the Taliban were a fifth-rate military power, why didn't the Clinton-Gore administration destroy it and spare us Sept. 11?" -- Charles Krauthammer

4) The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals: This group of frothing at the mouth lefties have a history of making dumb rulings. In fact, they're the most overturned appeals court in the country. Well, they really stepped into a buzzsaw when they declared that the Pledge of Allegiance was unconstitutional because it contained the phrase "under God." In response to their ruling, it seemed as if almost the entire country went nuts. The outcry was so loud that the Senate voted 98-0 "expressing support for the Pledge of Allegiance." The furor grew so quickly that Circuit Judge Alfred T. Goodwin stayed the ruling the next day.

Defining Quote: "What's next? Will our courts, in their zeal to abolish all religious faith from public arenas, outlaw 'God Bless America' too?" -- Rep. Roy Blunt

3) The Wellstone Memorial: Not in recent memory has there been a spectacle like the Wellstone Memorial. At the nationally televised service, Trent Lott, Rod Grams, and Jesse Ventura were booed, upbeat music was played, political speeches were given, and there were even beach balls being bandied about by the crowd.

The fallout from the service was enormous. Jesse Ventura was so offended that he appointed an Independent to fill out the rest of Wellstone's term instead of a Democrat as he'd planned to do earlier. Furthermore, so many Minnesotans were offended by the Memorial that it probably cost the Democrats Wellstone's seat in the Senate. My guess is that Terry Mcauliffe was largely responsible for that fiasco, but absolutely no one was willing to accept credit for planning the service.

Defining Quote: "If Paul Wellstone's legacy comes to an end, then our spirits will be crushed and we will drown in a river of tears."...To U.S. Rep. Jim Ramstad, R-Minn., "You know that Paul loved you. He needs you now...Help us win this race." -- Rick Kahn speaking at the Memorial Service

2) Barbra Streisand: If the top twenty list would have been based on nothing more than reader opinion, Babs would have won in a landslide.

Streisand made the biggest splash with her obnoxious memo to "Congressman Dick 'Gebhardt'. In that classic memo, she misspelled several things including Gephardt's name & speculated that the "logging industry" (among others) was pushing Bush to go to war with Iraq.

Streisand was also was busted less than a month later making another humiliating error. See if you can spot the mistake from this screed posted on foreign policy expert Barbra Streisand's web page...

Defining Quote: "A Republican/Conservative candidate trying with fading hopes to unseat respected Democratic Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy made a last-ditch effort to win headlines by devising ads in which she blatantly misquoted Barbra Streisand, fabricating outrageous quotes and completely misrepresenting Ms. Streisand's deep opposition to the Iranian dictator, Saddam Hussein. An Associated Press correspondent brought the ads to the attention of Ms. Streisand's representatives Tuesday, October 15, requesting comment"

1) Jimmy Carter: When Jimmy Carter was the POTUS, he destroyed the economy, crippled the military, gave away the Panama Canal, pandered to Yasser Arafat, and stood helplessly by while Iran was taken over by pro-terrorist Islamic radicals who immediately took American hostages. Yet, Carter has spent a large part of this year very publicly giving George Bush foreign policy advice. Uh -- no thanks.

Earlier this year, Carter went to Cuba to pal around with Fidel Castro while declaring that the Bush administration was lying about Cuba having biological weapons. Carter also blamed Israel for creating "intense feelings of animosity in the world" because of the "inability of Israel to live in peace with its neighbors." Jimmy has yet to comment on whether the Jews in Germany were responsible for the Holocaust because of their "inability to live in peace with (their) neighbors."

Notably, Carter also received a Nobel Peace Prize. Part of the reason why he received it, the biggest part I'm guessing, was simply to spite the Bush administration...

Defining Quote: "(The 2002 Nobel Peace Prize) should be interpreted as a criticism of the line that the current (U.S.) administration has taken. It's a kick in the leg to all that follow the same line as the United States." -- Nobel Committee Chairman Gunnar Berge on giving Jimmy Carter the Nobel Peace Prize






A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.

The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage.

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Since: 24.7.02

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#2 Posted on
You know its a sad day when Alec Baldwin isn't in the Top 20. By the way, how is he enjoying his self-imposed exile from the U.S. during the Bush Administration? Oh yeah, I forgot, Alec didn't follow through on his threat/promise.



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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
A lot of them didn't go...



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Since: 3.1.02
From: Philly

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
Some of these, I won't argue with. But some of the others...

"And then came the next shock. We had to realize that the people that did this were brilliant. It showed that the ego we could hold up until September 10 was inadequate." -- Norman Mailer

What's wrong with that quote? 9/11 certainly WAS a blow to the American ego and its delusions of impregnability. That "Terrorism only happens in OTHER countries" mentality sure went away in a hurry. The hijackers' methodology was brutal, reprehensible and callous, but also brilliant in its simplicity and effectiveness. It IS possible to be both brilliant and reprehensible, clever and criminal, creative and detestable.

Defining Quote: "America has an almost obscene infatuation with itself. Has there ever been a big, powerful country that is as patriotic as America? And patriotic in the tinniest way, with so much flag waving? You'd really think we were some poor little republic, and that if one person lost his religion for one hour, the whole thing would crumble. America is the real religion in this country." -- Norman Mailer

Again, nothing to argue with here. 9/11 didn't start this trend, but merely fanned its flames to new heights. Too many people in America act like America's a professional sports team, cheering for the red, white and blue and hissing at its criticizers as if every situation could be reduced to binary "you're with us or you're against us," win/lose terms. They seem to think that criticizing America or its actions is inherently unpatriotic, as if criticism can't be meant to be constructive.

Many of those who rail about "Blame America Firsters" seem to think that "Blame America NEVER" is a more appropriate motto. "Love it or leave it," "My country, right or wrong," "You're with us or you're helping the terrorists." Well, balls to THAT noise. Wanting to improve your country, wanting to correct it when it's acting inappropriately, standing up for beliefs even when they're unpopular -- THAT'S patriotism to me, not blindly trusting that our leaders know what's best and waving flags without considering all sides of the issues involved.

Defining Quote: "Well, he (Bush) might as well have been bombing Denmark. Denmark had nothing to do with 9/11. And neither did Afghanistan, at least the Afghanis didn't." -- Gore Vidal in the LA Weekly

It's arguable whether many of the particular Afghanis THAT WE BOMBED had anything to do with it.

Defining Quote: "What's next? Will our courts, in their zeal to abolish all religious faith from public arenas, outlaw 'God Bless America' too?" -- Rep. Roy Blunt

I don't recall 'God Bless America' being sung or recited in public schools each morning, do you?

(edited by vsp on 9.1.03 1430)


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Since: 1.8.02
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#5 Posted on

    Originally posted by Grimis
    A lot of them didn't go...

I can't think of a ONE that did....



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Since: 2.1.02

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
The insistance to label everyone conservative/liberal is infinitely more annoying then people-even people who may not always make sense-promoting what they believe in.
Jaguar
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Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 168 days
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#7 Posted on
Well I was really annoyed with every time the 'defining quote' wasn't even a quote from the person they're talking about. While the Jay Leno joke was somewhat funny, couldn't they have at least found something Jesse actually said that they found annoying?

Oh yeah, and this:

Defining Quote: "The tone of the speech is best reflected in Gore's contemptuous dismissal of the U.S. victory in Afghanistan as "defeating a fifth-rate military power." If the Taliban were a fifth-rate military power, why didn't the Clinton-Gore administration destroy it and spare us Sept. 11?" -- Charles Krauthammer

The reason given for bombing Afghanistan: They were hiding Bin Laden. Unless I missed it, there weren't any connections between the Taliban, or any Afghani's for that matter with Sept. 11th.

Charles Krauthammer is an idiot.

-Jag


Oh yeah, and in response to the question in bold: BECAUSE SOME OF US FEEL WE SHOULDN'T BE DICTATING HOW EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD SHOULD LIVE.


(edited by Jaguar on 10.1.03 0317)

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Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

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#8 Posted on

    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    The insistance to label everyone conservative/liberal is infinitely more annoying then people-even people who may not always make sense-promoting what they believe in.

I agree. I personally hold some ideals that might be held by a more "liberal" crowd (certain gay-rights activism, abortion, etc) because sometimes I think that the Republican party stuffs its ideals aside in favor of "Christian Right" ideals.
Take abortion. Morally, I think it is completely wrong. However, keeping true to my beliefs (one that is a generally conservative ideology), I think that Roe v Wade should NOT be overturned because I do not feel that such moral legislation is within the realm of something the government should have authority over. It is the same argument that a conservative uses to argue against the banning of smoking outdoors- that is not the job of the government to legislate.
My biggest trouble with this kind of "party line debate" is that if I were to conceed a minor point in an overall argument that is somewhat to the left of "Conservative Republicanism," the person I am debating (and I am sure the same holds true in the reverse, but I really would not have experience in that direction being a conservative) with with consider it a victory overall and claim I have invalidated my whole argument because I agreed on ONE MINOR POINT. There are more than two ways to look at any issue, and I think that the major flaw in the "two-party system" is that it really does not allow for viable third and fourth options when attempting to come up with a solution to a problem.
As far as this list goes... yeah, it could have been done way better, and should have been written in a much more humorous light, instead of in a manner that basically is trying to prove that the whole "liberal ideology" is wrong because these fucks are annoying...



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Since: 2.1.02
From: Michigan

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#9 Posted on
I think that was about my favorite Pool Boy post ever in the politics forum.

I think the whole party line crap is a huge part of what's wrong with politics today. The vast majority of the time, the two major parties offer voters a candidate that basically amounts to a strict representation of what each party believes to be a straight, no-exceptions list of their causes and stances on certain issues. It seems like almost all candidates who dare even to break from their party on one issue are immediately shunned away to being in an alternative political party, and aside from Ventura, the independant vote hasn't been doing so hot.

So what I wonder is, are voters really that cookie cutter about their politics, or do they just not care when they vote for someone who disagrees with their (the voter's) own positions on subjects?



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Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.02
The problem is voters prefer someone who is convinced that they're right, even if they don't agree, to someone who concedes that things change, people change their minds, and sometimes you don't get an issue right on the first try. As a result, rather than be accused of "flip-flop," candidates either

a) get locked into a bad position early in their career, and then can't get out of it even though they know better or, more likely,

b) avoid takiung any kind of stance on any issue of importance until they absolutely have to, and then take the malleable, vague stance possible.

Politics would be a lot better if voters accepted "I learned some more about the issue, I was wrong before, I changed my mind, and here's why," from a politician.



(edited by MoeGates on 10.1.03 1101)

It seems that I am - in no particular order - Zack Morris, John Adams, a Siren, Aphrodite, Cletus the Slack Jawed Yokel, Amy-Wynn Pastor, Hydrogen, Spider-Man, and Boston.
bash91
Merguez








Since: 2.1.02
From: Plain Dealing, LA

Since last post: 768 days
Last activity: 11 hours
#11 Posted on

    Originally posted by Ubermonkeys
    So what I wonder is, are voters really that cookie cutter about their politics, or do they just not care when they vote for someone who disagrees with their (the voter's) own positions on subjects?


Neither, they're simply in a position where they don't have a choice. I self-describe as a radical conservative, what one of my friends called "an unholy mix of a republican and a libertarian." Would you care to guess how many candidates who come even close to my viewpoints I've seen in the 15 years I've been voting and the 20 odd that I've been an active participant in politics? If you guessed zero, you win the no-prize. Given that I'm the only perfect candidate that I'm ever going to see, your mileage most assuredly will vary, I'm forced to compromise on who and what I vote for in any election. At that point, all I can do is select that candidate who most closely matches my positions. Most of the time, that candidate tends to be a republican, despite some deep philosophical divisions, because they come closer than do most democrats to my specific viewpoints. I'd argue that I'm neither "that cookie cutter" nor do I not care about our disagreements; rather, I have to make a decision on the best candidate, for me, that is offered in the election.


    Originally posted by MoeGates
    Politics would be a lot better if voters accepted "I learned some more about the issue, I was wrong before, I changed my mind, and here's why," from a politician.


If I ever heard that from a politician, I'd do a jig in my front yard. Of course, having said that, I think you're really oversimplifying here because you are leaving out party affiliation. At the local level, where party affiliation matters less than who you know and who knows you, I think you might be right. At any level higher than that, a politician is forced into certain positions because of party allegiance, at least if they have any ambition to advance. While the state and national parties have become less important since the post-Watergate "reforms", they can still reallly affect primary races by which way they throw money and support. As such, it becomes much harder to change your mind unless the party is changing with you. Oh, you can make public statements all you want, but unless you're John McCain, party discipline is eventually going to kick in, one way or another.

Tim






"Verhoeven's _Starship Troopers_: Based on the back cover of the book by Robert Heinlein."
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Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#12 Posted on
These people call Tom Daschle a liberal and you give them credibility? Daschle's annoying, but for the two year blow-job he's been giving Dubya, not for any kind of "radical leftism".




It's so sad when old friends fight.
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Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
Fuzz I think you're just jealous you didn't make the cut :)



Tank: So what do you need? Besides a miracle.
Neo: Guns. Lots of guns.
The Matrix
PalpatineW
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.44

    Originally posted by Jaguar
    Well I was really annoyed with every time the 'defining quote' wasn't even a quote from the person they're talking about. While the Jay Leno joke was somewhat funny, couldn't they have at least found something Jesse actually said that they found annoying?

    Oh yeah, and this:

    Defining Quote: "The tone of the speech is best reflected in Gore's contemptuous dismissal of the U.S. victory in Afghanistan as "defeating a fifth-rate military power." If the Taliban were a fifth-rate military power, why didn't the Clinton-Gore administration destroy it and spare us Sept. 11?" -- Charles Krauthammer

    The reason given for bombing Afghanistan: They were hiding Bin Laden. Unless I missed it, there weren't any connections between the Taliban, or any Afghani's for that matter with Sept. 11th.

    Charles Krauthammer is an idiot.

    -Jag


    Oh yeah, and in response to the question in bold: BECAUSE SOME OF US FEEL WE SHOULDN'T BE DICTATING HOW EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD SHOULD LIVE.


    (edited by Jaguar on 10.1.03 0317)



It's the Monroe Doctrine, Jag. The same philosophy that led JFK to try and get those missiles out of Cuba. We will not permit people with hostile intentions and the means to act on them to persist. The Afghans, and everybody else, can live exactly as they wish, but I have to draw the line when it comes to harboring our enemies.



Damn your eyes!
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.73
The Monroe doctrine was only about the Western Hemisphere.

Of course, we've fucked over Latin America WAY more than the Middle East, so maybe that's not the greatest point to bring up.



It seems that I am - in no particular order - Zack Morris, John Adams, a Siren, Aphrodite, Cletus the Slack Jawed Yokel, Amy-Wynn Pastor, Hydrogen, Spider-Man, and Boston.
PalpatineW
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.44

    Originally posted by MoeGates
    The Monroe doctrine was only about the Western Hemisphere.

    Of course, we've fucked over Latin America WAY more than the Middle East, so maybe that's not the greatest point to bring up.



In the age of ICBMs and modern terrorism, the Western Hempisphere is hardly a meaningful distinction.



Damn your eyes!
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 168 days
Last activity: 168 days
#17 Posted on
I don't really think there's much argue about here, unless you disagree that Charles Krauthammer is an idiot. My point was, that before they decided to not turn over bin Laden, Afghanistan had done nothing to the United States of America. Thus, there was no reason at all why we should've destroyed them.

-Jag



War is when you kill people with no names.
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I thought the original was funnier. Maybe if SuperBush had done something amusing, then I'd have commented on it. -Jag It's nice to know that the Democrats and Republicans still carry on their war no matter how little I care.
- Jaguar, Bush Saves the Day (2002)
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