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The W - Current Events & Politics - 20 Things We've Learned Since 9/11
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OlFuzzyBastard
Knackwurst








Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#1 Posted on
No, I didn't write it - I just felt compelled to post it, mostly because I can't wait to see people try to argue with most of these.

....

As we approach the first anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, it might be useful to see how far an ordinary citizen's knowledge has progressed one year on. So here, in the way of a summing-up, based on journalistic documentation, is a list of things we Americans have learned since last September - some of which might prove useful in the run-up to the November elections.

1. We've learned that Bush&Co.'s "war on terrorism" has morphed from finding and destroying those responsible for the 9/11 mass-murders to a worldwide campaign to install a Pax Americana, by force if necessary. In other words, neo-imperialism, reminiscent in many ways of the old Roman Empire or, closer to our own time, the British Empire.

2. We've learned that Bush&Co. has no desire to rethink any of its policies abroad, the same policies that isolate it and that generate hatred, suspicion and terrorism in so many regions of the globe. Rather than reconsider its policies, or try to accomplish its ends through diplomacy and alliances and cultural/economic initiatives, in its arrogance it continues to bully and threaten others, insult its European and other allies, disregard international treaties and courts, engage in unilateral actions without regard to the national interests of others, and, in general, simply throw its massive weight around. The prevailing attitude seems to be: we are the one Superpower, get used to bending to our will.

3. We've learned that Bush's national security leadership was alerted months ahead of 9/11 (and, it has admitted, no later than August 6) that a major air attack from al-Qaeda was in the works, along with the likely targets, but did nothing to try to prevent those attacks or warn anyone about them. Caught in their own lies, they blame "the system," especially elements in the FBI, for "not connecting the dots." More than 3000 Americans died as a result of this malfeasance.

4. We've learned that plans already were in the works prior to 9/11 for the evisceration of Constitutional guarantees of due process of law. The White House hustled the so-called USA PATRIOT Act through a frightened Congress in a patriotic blur, just a few days after the attacks, with few, if any, of the legislators having had time to read the final version.

5. We've learned that prior to September 11, the Bush administration was negotiating with the Taliban about a pipeline desired by a U.S.-led energy consortium that would cross through Afghanistan. When the Taliban balked, the U.S. negotiators told them they either could accept a "carpet of gold" or face a "carpet of bombs." The Taliban backed away from the deal and refused to hand over Osama bin Laden; shortly after the terror attacks of 9/11, the U.S. began bombing in Afghanistan.

6. We've learned that now with the Taliban having been overthrown, and a U.S.-friendly regime installed in Kabul, the pipeline project is back on track, designed to carry energy supplies across Afghanistan from the Caspian Sea area to near India. Hamid Karzai, the new leader of Afghanistan, formerly was a consultant on the payroll of the pipeline folks; likewise, the new U.S. special envoy to Afghanistan.

7. We've learned that Bush&Co.'s Homeland Security Act includes programs that bear an amazing resemblance to totalitarian programs from the fascist/communist end of the spectrum: getting the military (restricted heretofore to activity outside the U.S.) involved in domestic policing, signing up neighborhood and block snoops to work for the central government, investigating what books citizens are checking out and buying, denouncing those deemed insufficiently patriotic or suspicious because of their views, etc. Remind you of Stalin's Russia, Castro's Cuba, Hitler's Third Reich, the Stasi of East Germany? (There also are prototypes of patriotic youth leagues being tried out in cities, which could become a national program.) A kind of martial-law coming to a neighborhood near you.

8. We've learned that Ashcroft/Bush are shredding Constitutional due-process guarantees in their move toward total control: already they have compromised attorney-client privilege, removed habeus corpus protections, locked up folks with no charges, secreted citizens at military installations which puts them out of reach of the judicial system, violated privacy in rifling through personal telephone and email communications, etc. etc. When the ambiguously-worded PATRIOT Act was first brought up, Ashcroft and Bush told us not to worry, promising that these rules would affect only non-citizens. Since that time, American citizens have been handled in similar fashion. Coming to a neighborhood near you.

9. We've learned much about the dangers of religious fundamentalism in Islam, but we've also learned about dangers posed by our own religious fundamentalists - eager for a Christian theocratic society, symbolized most recently by a Secret Service agent scrawling on a Muslim suspect's refrigerator "Islam Is Evil, Christ Is King" - and the extraordinary power they wield within the Bush Administration, represented most openly by John Ashcroft, who in frame-of-mind resembles a Taliban mullah.

10. We've learned that the FBI, focusing now on foreign terrorists, doesn't seem energized with the same zeal to catch domestic terrorists, such as abortion-clinic arsonists - and especially the anthrax-dispenser. Though the FBI seems to know that the anthrax villain probably worked at a government bio-lab, nobody has been arrested, or even targeted as a prime suspect. It may not be likely, but the unsaid is finally being asked: Could this dangerous terrorist actually be working for the government?

11. We've learned that the HardRight of the Republican Party has taken control - of the House leadership, of the Supreme Court, of the White House, of much of the conglomerate-owned media - and has demonstrated its willingness to do nearly anything to maintain that power. (Only the courageous defection of Sen. Jim Jeffords from GOP ranks is standing in the way of HardRight total control of all three branches of government.) More and more truly objectionable HardRight judges are being nominated by Bush in an effort to stack the judiciary for decades to come. This by a man who lost the election by more than half-a-million votes, coming into his White House residency with no popular mandate, only because his supporters on the Supreme Court installed him there.

12. We've learned that to break the momentum of the HardRight, all energy for the upcoming November elections (less than 90 days away, let us not forget) must be expended in electing Democrat candidates and defeating Republican ones. The objective conditions are just not ripe yet for anything more than trying to move the country back toward the middle of the political spectrum. We progressives more in tune with the Greens (Green candidates are being supported secretly in many states by the Republicans, to try to defeat Democrats) will have to wait. The difference between Democrats and Republicans may seem small to Greens and others, but, as we've learned in a painful way under Bush&Co., that difference is immense when it comes to foreign and domestic policy and its actual effects on real people, here and abroad.

13. We've learned that Cheney is up to his ears in Halliburton irregularities, and may well be liable for indictment for participating in financial fraud. In addition, we've learned that Cheney, who was the head of the task force that came up with a corporate-friendly rather than a consumer-friendly energy policy, has refused to turn over to Congress the requested documents that will reveal how that policy was arrived at and which industry leaders (other than Enron's Kenny Boy) helped shape it.

14. We've learned that Bush knew in advance, as a member of the Harken Audit Committee, that Harken Oil was going to release negative financial news, and sold his shares before that, reaping a fortune. He may be liable for indictment for insider-trading and other Harken irregularities. (Even if Bush and Cheney are not indicted, they are the last people on earth who should be speaking about corruption in the corporate financial world, as these hypocrites benefitted from that very corrupt system. As did most of Bush's corporate-derived cabinet.)

15. We've learned that Bush&Co. were mightily opposed to any reform of corporate financial reporting, but when more and more companies were caught in such corrupt practices and the mood of the country shifted - mainly because so many folks, especially seniors, lost huge chunks of their pensions and portfolio holdings when the Stock Market tanked as a result of investors' losing confidence in the numbers provided by corporations - they jumped on the bandwagon and pretended they were reformers all along. In the background, they are trying to help their corporate supporters water down, and otherwise get around, the new rules. To that end, Bush&Co. have appointed Harvey Pitt and Larry Thompson, two tainted corporate types, to head up the "investigations" of corporate wrongdoing. Break out the whitewash.

16. We've learned that Bush&Co., having placed its chips on Ariel Sharon, continues to have no real desire for a just peace in the Middle East. All it wants is for the area to be quiet and controlled (thus giving carte blanche to the Israeli Army's police-state occupation and oppression), so that it can continue its plans for overthrowing Saddam Hussein in Iraq. And, of course, there has been no declaration of a State of War by the Congress, neither against Afghanistan nor against Iraq, and no real debate about the wisdom of a war against Saddam - even when the top brass at the Pentagon and in Great Britain have expressed their opposition to such military adventurism.

17. We've learned that there will be no peace now in the Middle East because the U.S. is not fully engaged in the peace process, also because neither extreme in the area wants peace: Sharon thrives on war and brutality, Hamas needs Sharon's bloody policies to justify its campaign of terror. There are signs that moderate Palestinians finally are starting to speak out in favor of a peaceful solution, and there are plenty of land-for-peace Israelis (supported by many liberal Jews in the U.S.), so the outlines of a peace are out there. But until the U.S. and U.N. make the commitment to separate the warring extremists and arrange an equitable treaty both Israel and the Palestinians can live with - secure borders for Israel (and an end to suicide bombing), a viable state for the Palestinians, abandoning of the settlements by Israel, reparations for Palestinians who lost their homes and property - there will be only more bloodshed. And more fertile ground for new generations of terrorists, in the Middle East and elsewhere in the Islamic world.

18. We've learned that Bush&Co. has been a total disaster for the environment, in every way: from reneging on its campaign promise to cut carbon-dioxide and other greenhouse emissions, to backing away from higher fuel-efficiency in cars (we could cut our dependence on foreign oil 20% just by increasing fuel efficiency by 5%), to giving breaks to corporate polluters all across the country, to permitting increased arsenic levels in the water, etc. etc.

19. We've learned that Secretary of State Colin Powell - who sees the world in something other than simplistic black-and-white, us-versus-them dichotomies - is a man imprisoned in the Bush Cabinet, forced to alter his principled opinions in the service of Bush&Co.'s stupidly aggressive and ultimately self-defeating foreign policies. Powell, a moderate conservative, looks like a raving progressive when measured against his masters. He should resign but probably won't.

20. We've learned that the tax-cuts provided to the most wealthy are not only payoffs to the corporate sector that provides support for Bush&Co. By locking in those tax cuts for ten years (and with humongous chunks of the budget spent on the "war on terrorism") Bush&Co. have ensured that innumerable social programs that aid the less well-off will be cut or eliminated. In short, a rollback of New Deal/Great Society programs, so hated by the HardRight. (The HardRight movement to detach prescription drugs for seniors fr om the Medicare program, and, especially, to privatize Social Security - even in the face of recent stock-market disasters - is part of this same desire.)

Even after all the above shorthand summaries, no doubt I'm leaving out lots of Bush&Co. dirt, but this list can provide a starting point, and a handy compilation of enough low and high crimes and misdemeanors to warrant their removal from power, either through the ballot box or by resignation or impeachment.

Finally, as we enter August, we know that one of two things will happen in the summer-doldrums, with the Congress on vacation: Either Bush&Co. will start its Iraq war and carry out more under-the-radar attacks on important American programs, or the media, bereft of their usual Beltway stories, will use the down time to engage in hard-hitting investigative reporting that will reveal in even more stark relief the machinations of Bush&Co. illegalities and other scandalous behavior. But, given the corporate nature of our corporate-owned media, don't count on it. Instead, we'll probably be flooded with this summer's Condit-like sex scandal.



"The only difference between lilies and turds are those humankind have agreed upon, and I don't always agree."
---George Carlin

"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music."
---Anon.
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TheBucsFan
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Since: 2.1.02

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
That's great. Where did you get this?



Mean Gene: "You know, I don't think it's a question - Goldberg, I don't think it's a question of who's next, I think it's a question of who's left?"
Goldberg: "No, see, that's where you're wrong. It ain't who's left, it's - WHO'S NEXT?"

"Just how hardcore am I? Well this morning, I drank milk that was two days past the expiration!"
-Norman Smiley

"She is one of them! She's CANADIAN!"
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CRZ
Big Brother
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Since: 9.12.01
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#3 Posted on
TrollingbecauseIhateAmerica.com



©CRZ™
Visit [slash] wrestling
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Bockwurst








Since: 26.6.02
From: New Jersey, USA

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#4 Posted on
My guess is that this was obtained from an ultra-leftist publication or "journalist". The leftist view is a bizarre one. I alternate between laughing and screaming in rage whenever i hear a leftist bring up the 2000 election, which you still see in the media TWO years later. My comments are obviously not directetd to OlFuzzy, since he's not the author, just the poster.
I disagree with the leftist twist on every numbered item. I'll make just a few brief comments:
Issue 1: Is something wrong with peace? What's wrong with tracking down murderous terrorists and removing them from the planet? Of course, this issue contradicts issue 17. Do we want peace? or do we want war in israel? The left needs to make up it's collective mind.
2. Diplomacy:
USA to taliban "give us Osama, he's responsible for nearly 3000 deaths on american soil."
taliban to USA: "go scratch, we're not giving him up"
So much for diplomacy.
USA to taliban: "ok, choke on this laser guided bomb, slapnuts"
3. A bipartisan congressional committee already said there's no "smoking gun" regarding laying blame on gov't agencies. hindsight is 20-20. Maybe if the feds weren't restricted by PC thugs crying about "racial profiling" they could have watched the right guys.
4. The Patriot Act passed through a democrat controlled congress. leftists shouldn't complain about it.
5. what's the point? Osama bombed the trade towers because of an oil pipeline? or did the oil companies do it to pin the blame on osama?
6. We've learned? I have no comment, haven't seen any data or evidence to support the allegations.
7. Again no comment. this smacks of paranoia to me. someone read too much "1984".
8. How should the US constitution apply to terrorists and those who aid terrorists? Keep them locked up. There's no point in arresting a suicide bomber AFTER he commits his crime. How about we worry about keeping americans alive first.
9. So a secret service guy gets caught doing a no-no. reading about fears of a christian theocracy makes me think the post was written as satire. you have to be one seriously delusional paranoid leftist to think this govt will change to a theocracy. leftist atheists need to remember this country provides freedom of religion. our leaders are free to be as religious as they want. and religion is bipartisan, the dems were just as outraged as the republicans when the california judge declared "under God" to be unconstitutional. Lest i be accused of being a radical religious right member, i am not religious at all (i avoid the label athiest) i believe in freedom of religion howevere, and i do not attack those who choose to be religious.
10. I've seen no evidence to suggest that the FBI is neglecting their duties in other areas of law enforcement.
11. Paranoia again. Right wing control of the liberal press? stop joking.
12. no comment, just a call for leftists to unite.
13. can't comment, haven't followed the facts. sounds like the standard leftist attack on big business though.
14. same as 13
15. we didn't need corporate reform before all hell broke loose. now we see that things aren't quite right, so the republicans are working to reform business. the democrats seem mad that the republicans are talking of reform, which has been the dems own issue for a while.
16. I dislike Sharon alot so i do not totally disagree. but if anyone thinks saddam hussein does not need to go is out of their mind. i do not care for another war, but the man is a lunatic working on nuclear and chem/bio weapons. the WORLD needs him gone; the USA is the only one with the balls to say it and the might to back it up.
17. Bush was the first US president to speak of a 'Palestine' and not just 'palestinian state' even the clintonistas didn't say that. How can there be peace when you've got a blood thirsty prime minister killing women and children and crazy bloodthirsty terrorist groups going back for revenge. in case no one has been watching, the middle east is full of these religioius zealots, jewish as well as muslim, who want nothing more than to wipe out the opposing peoples.
18. the americana economy is more important. or would you rather tell farmers they have to lose their whole lives in order to save a couple fish? the middle east has us by the balls with their oil. DRILL IN ANWR!!!!
19. Powell is part of the administration, he needs to learn that he can't put his views over those of the administration he works for. but i still think he's a standup guy. he has a good character, something the republicans have brought back to the white house after the clinton scandals.
20. I will forever hate the democrats for STEALING from me. i lose nearly %50 of my earnings due to taxes. the republicans want to let me have more of my money that i work hard for. the dems want high taxes for their socialist programs. america doesn't need that garbage. our founding forefathers fought a freakin revolutionary war against taxes (just one of many issues i know).


i apologize for more than a few comments, i did not intend to comment on every issue, but i got on a roll and the blood pressure was sky high and i had to state my opinion. some wieners may be on the left, some in the middle, and others like me in the RIGHT. but we are all united by our love for wrestling (oops i sound like a leftist hippie)









Maiden RULES!!!
The Goon
Boudin blanc
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

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#5 Posted on
I really am curious what the source of that article was-although I agree it sounds like a far-left organization.
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.09
    Originally posted by The Goon
    I really am curious what the source of that article was-although I agree it sounds like a far-left organization.


You're not kidding. Sounds like something out of the Clinton/Daschle/Gore handbook, right across from the chapter entitled "Be Nice to men in the White Coats with the needle..."

Is there some cause for concern about civil liberties? Yes of coruse there is. Has been for years.

As far as the terrorists go, you would have to be completely delusion to believe that the United States government would let something like this happened. I wouldn't even have blamed Bill Clinton for this one had it happened on his watch. And while there is plenty of blame to go around, please remember that Clinton and Co. spent years ignoring the problems ever since the 1993 WTC attack with the diagrams of planes hitting buildings.

It's amazing that the socialist left will attack anything to the right of them with...well....ruthless aggression.

(edited by Grimis on 1.8.02 1238)
DMC
Liverwurst








Since: 8.1.02
From: Modesto, CA

Since last post: 3512 days
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#7 Posted on
That "article" was just one big long leftist rant that doesn't even deserve point-by-point answers. Blah blah blah. How do you respond to someone who is that convinced by their own rhetoric?

DMC

(edited by DMC on 1.8.02 0946)


"HEY A**HOLE!" -Danny DeVito from Goldmember
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
    Originally posted by The Goon
    I really am curious what the source of that article was-although I agree it sounds like a far-left organization.


And that sounds like the retort of someone who is looking for a reason to ignore it. Why does being a liberal org. make it wrong? Obviously the writer of this thinks the media today is TOO protective of the Bush administration (and I agree). The "mainstream" American media is just one mass of easily-manipulated propoganda-spewing machines.


    Originally posted by DMC
    That "article" was just one big long leftist rant that doesn't even deserve point-by-point answers. Blah blah blah. How do you respond to someone who is that convinced by their own rhetoric?

    DMC

    (edited by DMC on 1.8.02 0946)



It's not an "article", it's a column. Big difference, actually.


    Originally posted by CRZ
    TrollingbecauseIhateAmerica.com


Why is it "trolling"? Why, because the author complains about some things, does he hate America?

(edited by TheBucsFan on 1.8.02 1312)

Mean Gene: "You know, I don't think it's a question - Goldberg, I don't think it's a question of who's next, I think it's a question of who's left?"
Goldberg: "No, see, that's where you're wrong. It ain't who's left, it's - WHO'S NEXT?"

"Just how hardcore am I? Well this morning, I drank milk that was two days past the expiration!"
-Norman Smiley

"She is one of them! She's CANADIAN!"
-Stevie Ray
ICEMAN
Landjager








Since: 23.5.02
From: Nashville,TN

Since last post: 1912 days
Last activity: 1601 days
#9 Posted on
I think CRZ hit the nail on the head.



I am immortal
I have inside me blood of kings
I have no rival,no man can be my equal
So take me to the future of of your world
---Queen,Princes of the Universe
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1306 days
Last activity: 1103 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.09
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    The "mainstream" American media is just one mass of easily-manipulated propoganda-spewing machines


I agree. It's amazing the left-wing rhetoric they spew forth. If you listen to the media we're all going to die of West Nile Virus(the latest of the recurring "we're gonna die" epidemics). Oh and we'll all evil if we don't support quotas and unconstitutional and comletely immoral gun control registrations.

Oh, and that by further RESTRICTING captalism it'll make capitalism better,

So yes, the propoganda spewing machiens are part of the problem; just not in the way you have stated.

BTW: Somebody please explain to me why rolling back the Big Government, expensive New Deal programs is a bad thing?

(edited by Grimis on 1.8.02 1321)
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 109 days
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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
Look, these "terrorists" are mad about something. Who here can tell me exactly what? No big newspaper in this country is going to flirt with the notion that maybe America really did do somehting wrong to them. I'm not saying they were justified to do what they did, but do you REALLY think America is innocent? That our government hasn't been doing something wrong, knew about it, and ignored it? Yes, the papers reveal many negative things. But not the ones we need to know. So another intern in Washington is missing. Big news! But nobody is bold enough to dig and find out WHY these attacks ACTUALLY happened, because nobody wants to see this country as anything other than a victim.



Mean Gene: "You know, I don't think it's a question - Goldberg, I don't think it's a question of who's next, I think it's a question of who's left?"
Goldberg: "No, see, that's where you're wrong. It ain't who's left, it's - WHO'S NEXT?"

"Just how hardcore am I? Well this morning, I drank milk that was two days past the expiration!"
-Norman Smiley

"She is one of them! She's CANADIAN!"
-Stevie Ray
ICEMAN
Landjager








Since: 23.5.02
From: Nashville,TN

Since last post: 1912 days
Last activity: 1601 days
#12 Posted on
I thought they did it because we didn't believe in their religion.


And you rather look at the Terrorists who slaughtered nearly 3,000 people as victims?



I am immortal
I have inside me blood of kings
I have no rival,no man can be my equal
So take me to the future of of your world
---Queen,Princes of the Universe
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1306 days
Last activity: 1103 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.09

    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    Look, these "terrorists" are mad about something. Who here can tell me exactly what? .....But nobody is bold enough to dig and find out WHY these attacks ACTUALLY happened, because nobody wants to see this country as anything other than a victim.


Beacause they HATE us. They hate our culture. They hate capitalism. They hate the fact that we live in a constitutional republic. They hate the fact that we have the five basic freedoms outline in our First Amendment. They hate the standard of living we have worked hard to acheive.

But they also hate what we do with it. And it goes beyojnd our support for Israel, one of the few democratic regimes in the region. It includes the hegemonic foreign policy of the Clinton administration. In the 1990s we often interferred in the policy of other countries for no reason. Clinton's "Engagement and Enlargement" oftentimes chastised foreign governments for being something other than, well, Americanized.

They hate us. We don't need Sherlock Holmes, Ellery Queen, Leslie Nielsen or a congressional study to figure this one out.
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 109 days
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
No, but I don't assume everything they do and think is wrong (or that I even understand it) just because they hurt my country.

And Grimis, how are you sure that is all their motivation, or that they aren't justified in hating us? Did you read it in the paper?

(edited by TheBucsFan on 1.8.02 1351)


Mean Gene: "You know, I don't think it's a question - Goldberg, I don't think it's a question of who's next, I think it's a question of who's left?"
Goldberg: "No, see, that's where you're wrong. It ain't who's left, it's - WHO'S NEXT?"

"Just how hardcore am I? Well this morning, I drank milk that was two days past the expiration!"
-Norman Smiley

"She is one of them! She's CANADIAN!"
-Stevie Ray
ICEMAN
Landjager








Since: 23.5.02
From: Nashville,TN

Since last post: 1912 days
Last activity: 1601 days
#15 Posted on

    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    No, but I don't assume everything they do and think is wrong (or that I even understand it) just because they hurt my country.<

    (edited by TheBucsFan on 1.8.02 1351)




But it seems that you view everything that "your" country does as wrong.



I am immortal
I have inside me blood of kings
I have no rival,no man can be my equal
So take me to the future of of your world
---Queen,Princes of the Universe
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 109 days
Last activity: 109 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
No, I see their attempts to cover up their actions as wrong. I don't know everything that either America or the rest of the world does, so I don't judge it at all. What I am saying is wrong now is everyone assuming America is automatically right in the conflict.

EDIT: That's all, kinda going back and forth here.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 1.8.02 1358)


Mean Gene: "You know, I don't think it's a question - Goldberg, I don't think it's a question of who's next, I think it's a question of who's left?"
Goldberg: "No, see, that's where you're wrong. It ain't who's left, it's - WHO'S NEXT?"

"Just how hardcore am I? Well this morning, I drank milk that was two days past the expiration!"
-Norman Smiley

"She is one of them! She's CANADIAN!"
-Stevie Ray
ICEMAN
Landjager








Since: 23.5.02
From: Nashville,TN

Since last post: 1912 days
Last activity: 1601 days
#17 Posted on

    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    No, What I am saying is wrong now is everyone assuming America is automatically right in the conflict.




So is there something else that is gonna be wrong tomorrow or are you gonna stick with this one for a few more days?



(edited by ICEMAN on 1.8.02 1309)



I am immortal
I have inside me blood of kings
I have no rival,no man can be my equal
So take me to the future of of your world
---Queen,Princes of the Universe
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 1 day
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#18 Posted on
Please explain to me why not agreeing with our current administrations policies means someone hates America. When Clinton (or FDR, or Johnson, or Carter, or whoever) was president, did people who disagreed with them hate America? Some of the things in the 'list of 20' I agree with, some I didnt. But Im really sick of being told Im a bad American or dont love my country because I happen to think the people who run it right now suck.

(edited by MoeGates on 1.8.02 1447)


Expressing myself EVERY day - but especially on July 22, 2002!
evilwaldo
Lap cheong








Since: 7.2.02
From: New York, NY

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00

    Originally posted by MoeGates
    Please explain to me why not agreeing with our current administrations policies means someone hates America. When Clinton (or FDR, or Johnson, or Carter, or whoever) was president, did people who disagreed with them hate America? Some of the things in the 'list of 20' I agree with, some I didnt. But Im really sick of being told Im a bad American or dont love my country because I happen to think the people who run it right now suck.

    (edited by MoeGates on 1.8.02 1447)



AMEN!!!

I agree wholeheartedly.





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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1306 days
Last activity: 1103 days
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.09

    Originally posted by MoeGates
    Please explain to me why not agreeing with our current administrations policies means someone hates America. When Clinton (or FDR, or Johnson, or Carter, or whoever) was president, did people who disagreed with them hate America? Some of the things in the 'list of 20' I agree with, some I didnt. But Im really sick of being told Im a bad American or dont love my country because I happen to think the people who run it right now suck.

    (edited by MoeGates on 1.8.02 1447)



You're not, but there are a large contingent in the left-wing that do hate America and eveyrthing it stands for. I haven't accused anybody of hating America on this board, just stating that this list is truly from some nether reaches of common sanity even if a few things do have a shred or too of truth.

And thank god Bush is president right now. Can you imagine if Algore was President? He'd cower in fear and say "We're going to put the terrorists in a lock box.
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