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30.9.14 0501
The W - Current Events & Politics - 1 in 3 Young Germans believe U.S. sponsored 9/11
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spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#1 Posted on
Another example of how we are getting killed in the wars of public perception and public relations everywhere else in the world. 1 in 5 Germans believe we did 9/11 to ourselves for political purposes (alertnet.org)

I know that the initial response will be "so what?" and "we don't need them anyhow." And while I admit to being as pissed as anyone else that people would think that, I worry about the consequences this can have for legitimate anti-terror efforts. What happens when someone in Germany begins to run on a platform of non-cooperation with the U.S. and wins some seats there? Or people begin to think there's no gain to be had in alloting resources to track operatives inside these countries. It seems to me to be something of a downward spiral, the more this sort of thing happens, the more folks here will simply be compelled to say "screw everyone, we're the United States and we don't need any of these commie pinko countries to help us" which is great except that we do need their help to truly protect our security.



She was worth 800 miles driving to see her play - Brenda Weiler

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redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 456 days
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#2 Posted on

    Originally posted by spf2119
    What happens when someone in Germany begins to run on a platform of non-cooperation with the U.S. and wins some seats there?








Isn't that what the Green Party in Germany does already?





Will the woman who left her nine infants at Shea Stadium, please pick them up. They already scored six in the first off Tom Glavine, and know more letters of the alphabet than John Franco.
DrOp
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 2211 days
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#3 Posted on
I think it would be really intesting and telling to watch a single event covered by, say, five different news programs orginating from different countries.

Everybody's got a spin.



And Marking Out
Slashwrestling.com
Wienerville
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 21 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#4 Posted on
Key quote:

"Asked whether they believed that the U.S. government could have ordered the September 11 attacks itself, 31 percent of those surveyed under the age of 30 in the poll answered "yes", while 19 percent overall gave the same answer.

In other words they were asked whether there was a possibility that the US could have been behind 9/11. Not whether they thought thats what actually happened.

Basically it shows that 1 in 5 Germans in a survey of only 1000 entertain the possiblity that the US would kill its own citizens in order further a broader political agenda.

People believe govenrments are corrupt, it aint news. If you dont believe me go to google.com and type in 'jfk assassination' and see some of the shit it throws up.



FurryHippie
Frankfurter








Since: 29.10.02
From: New York

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#5 Posted on
How would it even be feasible that we caused 9/11? The hijackers were identified as Saudi extremists, and I'm pretty sure there were interviews recorded where bin Ladin was bragging about the attacks. If we did them ourselves, why would this be the case?
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 5 days
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
I agree with FurryHippie. I'm no fan of Bush, but I hardly think that the government would do anything like this. What was to be gained from it?



Over 1800 posts and still never a Wiener of the Day! But I'm not bitter!
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 5 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.28
Guys, there's a wealth of "literature" out there (including a French best seller) dedicated to answering those questions. If you're honestly asking, I'm sure you know how to use google.



"I'm sorry, I didn't think I was going to talk about 'man on dog' with a United States Senator. It's sort of freaking me out."


Associated Press interview with Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA), 04-07-2003.
Dahak
Frankfurter








Since: 12.5.02
From: Junction City OR.

Since last post: 2003 days
Last activity: 1656 days
#8 Posted on
Dumb ass theories stay around forever. If you don't believe me check out the Pearl Harbor theories. Or some of the JFK assasination ones.
The truth is that theories like this make people feel better in a way. If the govt. is all knowing but evil then it will do something in a bad situation if it feels like it. But the truth is that the govt. (or any govt. ever) is pretty incompetent. 1,000s of employees sifting through 10,000s of reports. Workers who half ass because they are hung over. Management who are pissed off because they didn't score last night. Bureaucratic infighting between departments. And sometimes they just don't know.
I am not really trying to make it sound like govt. employees are lazy or incompetent (or at least not especially so) but they are made up of humans with humans mistakes.




Marge I am just trying to get into heaven not run for Jesus.
Pimp Jewce
Medisterpoelse








Since: 25.7.03
From: NYC

Since last post: 4085 days
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#9 Posted on
Dumb ass theories from dumb ass people. This just in 5 in 5 germans followed hitler. They are a joke of a nation. They better stick to making cars and coffee machines
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.65

    Originally posted by Pimp Jewce
    Dumb ass theories from dumb ass people. This just in 5 in 5 germans followed hitler. They are a joke of a nation. They better stick to making cars and coffee machines
Well you're certainly off to a rousing start.



©CRZ™
Octavian
Weisswurst








Since: 17.7.03
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 3998 days
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#11 Posted on

    Originally posted by CRZ

      Originally posted by Pimp Jewce
      Dumb ass theories from dumb ass people. This just in 5 in 5 germans followed hitler. They are a joke of a nation. They better stick to making cars and coffee machines
    Well you're certainly off to a rousing start.


I love these kinds of process comments.

In regards to the German survey, it speaks to the general distrust the world has for American motives. I certainly don't believe that the US had any role in the attacks on 9/11, but it's undeniable that we have been spending the last couple years using those attacks to justify actions that would never have been deemed acceptable otherwise. Couple that with GW's lack of finesse in the domain of international relations and it's easy to see where cynicism about our motives come from.

-MMM
ShotGunShep
Frankfurter








Since: 20.2.03

Since last post: 2514 days
Last activity: 2401 days
#12 Posted on
I made very good friends with a German exchange student this past year. He always a pretty right wing guy. His dad is a doctor(don't know why I added that, just did). He was always complaining about taxation and Schroder. Anyway, he was deathly afraid of terrorist attacks. He took a plane to Hawaii and couldn't sleep because he was worried about it getting hijacked. None of us knew why he was so damned freaked out about it.(I live on the West Coast, so we weren't impacted emotionally as the East Coasters, but not to sound like an ass) He never said anything distrusting about the US government, just about English(he said he visited there and people asked him if he was a nazi, which I found hard to believe), talked bad about the French, and especially the Turks. But yeah, just thought I'd throw all that out there....

    Originally posted by Octavian




    I love these kinds of process comments.

    In regards to the German survey, it speaks to the general distrust the world has for American motives. I certainly don't believe that the US had any role in the attacks on 9/11, but it's undeniable that we have been spending the last couple years using those attacks to justify actions that would never have been deemed acceptable otherwise. Couple that with GW's lack of finesse in the domain of international relations and it's easy to see where cynicism about our motives come from.

    -MMM



The US is using the attacks to justify its actions that would have never been deemed acceptable? I completely disagree. The US government and military is REACTING to the attacks defensively in the only way it knows how. GW's lack of finesse? He isn't the smoothest of guys(but apparently he is very charismatic in private), but I don't think many Presidents could have won over many of the opposing world leaders. I mean, the french and russians had ties with Iraq, it doesn't have anything to do with GWB. It's just a power struggle within the Western world.
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1964 days
Last activity: 1898 days
#13 Posted on
"The US government and military is REACTING to the attacks defensively in the only way it knows how."

Then it should learn some new ways of reaction. Attacking a country with no obvious links to what happened as it's first major post-9/11 move is a terrible idea. If the US intelligence and military services are the pinnacles of achievement that is claimed, then why not be a little more precise in taking action against the terrorist cells responsible. Why not try and collect more accurate, concise information about known terrorists operating in the worl and eliminate them with a combination of pin-point military strikes and internationally-coordinated police action? The people responsible for 9/11 had to have a foothold in the Western world for many years-instead of going into the Middle East and sledgehammering foreign nations that we have issues with, why don't we try and sort out the problems we have within our own borders instead of pouring cash into a war that really should be the last step in wiping out terrorism rather than the first?

And let's not forget that both Britain and America are responsible for sponsoring terrorist groups in the past to further our agendas. Considering one of the reasons for entering Iraq was it's alleged funding and harbouring of terrorists-based on evidence from years ago-are we on our own hitlists?

War on Iraq may have been inevitable, that is true-but a war on a specific country is most certainly not the way the Western world should be reacitng to a threat which isn't based in any one single country or nationality.



I Took The Father, I'll Take The Son

fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3239 days
Last activity: 3239 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.15
You gotta give Germans some leeway to be extremely cynical considering their history. I wonder what German students are taught about their country's history. I know when I was in high school, I was fortunate to have a History teacher who pointed out all the spin in the Canadian and American textbooks. Its fairly minor stuff but you gotta wonder exactly what young Germans are being taught about their country and America.
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 21 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#15 Posted on

    Originally posted by FurryHippie
    How would it even be feasible that we caused 9/11? The hijackers were identified as Saudi extremists, and I'm pretty sure there were interviews recorded where bin Ladin was bragging about the attacks. If we did them ourselves, why would this be the case?


The survey merely asked if respondents believed that the US could be behind the attacks. Some may take the question to be asking whether the US government would have the clout (if not necassarily the desire) to carry out such an attack and then subsequently apportion blame to Islamic fundamentalists to further a crusade against terrorism.

Even if bin Laden were entirely innocent of the attacks it seems only natural that he would be perfectly happy to accept responsibility so as to raise his profile and standing among the more extreme elements of the Islamic community. Regardless of what he said he was probably going to have plenty of folks trying to blow the shit out of him. Why not go down in a blaze of 'glory' in the eyes of your followers?

Not that I believe for a second that he wasn't behind the attacks. Just trying to hypothesise about the thought process of those who expressed doubts in the survey.



deadbeater3
Chipolata








Since: 17.11.02

Since last post: 3942 days
Last activity: 3850 days
#16 Posted on
Also, 9/11 was done by Saudi and egyptian millitant nationals, and Somalia, Kenya, Algeria and Indonesia has suffered massive attacks, yet we go after Afghanistan (understandable) and Iraq, whose secular government has no love for Osama.



The divas should not be about T&A, they should be about Kicking A.
ShotGunShep
Frankfurter








Since: 20.2.03

Since last post: 2514 days
Last activity: 2401 days
#17 Posted on

    Originally posted by deadbeater3
    Also, 9/11 was done by Saudi and egyptian millitant nationals, and Somalia, Kenya, Algeria and Indonesia has suffered massive attacks, yet we go after Afghanistan (understandable) and Iraq, whose secular government has no love for Osama.

The men were FROM Saudi Arabia, just like Osama. Their base of operations was in Afghanistan where the government was protecting them.
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA That is all I have to say. Don't they even check their FACTS at that paper? Were the editors in the back having a bowl when that story crossed their desk?
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