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The W - Movies & TV - .07%
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Lexus
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Stafford, VA

Since last post: 11 hours
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.84
Awesome, just awesome episode.

Siler is the best villain on TV, dare I say in TV History.



Hold nothing sacred and you'll never be dissapointed. Especially not this statement.
Promote this thread!
Alessandro
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Worcester MA

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 2 days
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.04
One question - how did Bennett know that there was a rusted pipe in Parkman's "cell"? And that he only had three minutes before the guard would show up?

Okay, that's two questions, but still ... seemed a little too convenient to me.





Mean Green Boston Celtics Message BoardUnofficial Boogeyman Fan Club MemberAre you ready for a web site so hot its gonna feel like somebody took a trayful of cookies and BAKED EM UP IN YOUR ASS


Teapot
Kishke








Since: 1.8.02
From: Louisville KY

Since last post: 52 days
Last activity: 5 hours
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.50
Looks like the producers have been studying up on their comic book history. Linderman's plan is straight out of Watchmen, and next week looks like an homage to "Days of Future Past".



Tenken347
Boudin blanc








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 8 hours
Last activity: 6 hours
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.58
Oh, Heroes has been stealing plots and ideas since it's first episode. I mean, the whole concept is essentially just the X-Men from another angle. But they've been stealing, for the most part, good ideas, and implementing them very well. As long as their copycatting is done well, I'm not going to have a problem with it. And as far as Bennet knowing about the rusty pipe and the guard, well he ran the whole complex. He probably knew what cell they would put Parkman in, and that the pipe needed to be replaced soon. He would have been responsible for the security protocols as well, and would know exactly how long it would take a guard to respond to a situation in the cells. I mean it was supposed to be needlessly complex to show you how good Bennett is at coming up with plans, but it didn't really stretch the limits of believability for me.
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1804 days
Last activity: 1738 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
I have a massive problem with Linderman's plan being ripped off, note for note, from Watchmen, especially seeing as the show's creators claim to not read comic books at all. It's basically plagiarism.



To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
SchippeWreck
Banger








Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, CA

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.06
I've never read Watchmen (*turns in geek cred card*), so any alleged plagiarism didn't register with me.

I was left wondering who made up Linderman's old supergroup. My guesses are:

-Nathan and Peter's dad (hence his connection to Linderman)
-MAYBE Nathan and Peter's mom
-Hiro's dad
-Simone's dad

Any other elder characters I'm missing? I was thinking maybe Nikki's father, but he doesn't seem as likely to me.



My mom says sigs are bad for you.
Dahak
Frankfurter








Since: 12.5.02
From: Junction City OR.

Since last post: 1844 days
Last activity: 1496 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.92
The Watchmen similarities are pretty strong. I don't really have a problem with it because most non comic book fans only know about the major titles like Spiderman or Batman. Plus if you are going to borrow from a comic book you might as well make it the best.



Marge I am just trying to get into heaven not run for Jesus.
Llakor
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Montreal, Quebec, CANADA

Since last post: 379 days
Last activity: 370 days
AIM:  
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.14
Um Jeph Loeb is one of the producers. And as far as comic geekdom goes, he has written several books. I mean his books with Tim Sale are all celebrations of comic geekdom.

The Watchmen comparison may be going a bit too far.

Going from memory:

Rorshach is in his cell when the midget mob boss and his two goons approach him during a prison riot designed to give them time to kill him.

Rorshach goads one of the goons to attack him and ties his arms through the cell doors so that they have to burn through the goon with their acetelyne torch to get to Rorshach.

When they get the door open, Rorshach kicks his toilet (pipe?) apart with his foot (!) and the water spills, elecctrocutes the other goon with the torch and cuts off the power of the prison

At this point, Night-Owl and the Silk Spectre show up to save Rorshach

He says he didn't need saving and says that he needs to make a stop in the washroom (where the midget Mob Boss has fled)

Night Owl and Silk Spectre bitch while Rorshach drowns the midget in the toilet.

*******

So other than a rusty pipe and the power going out, there are similarities enough to call it a nod but not a steal.

I mean you could just as easily compare it to any number of Spock led Star Trek prison breaks.



"Don't Blame CANADA, Blame Yourselves!"
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1804 days
Last activity: 1738 days
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
We're not comparing the prison break. Linderman's plan for world peace is a precise rip-off of WATCHMEN's final act. It doesn't borrow, it steals wholesale.

Also, interview with Tim Kring, HEROES creator:

"I'm intrigued by this question because obviously something I've done with HEROES proves to you that I didn't read it. The problem is, since I didn't read it, I don't know what that is. Did I miss something I should have stolen? Did I steal something and don't know it? I fear the latter from the tone of your question. But the truth is I didn't read it for a couple reasons.

First and foremost, because this show deals in the arena of the super hero and comic book world, I didn't want to be tempted or discouraged by other ideas out there. Very early on in the process, I went to see my friend Jeph Loeb for just this reason. I told him I was not well versed in this world and wanted him to steer me away from anything that was derivative or just out and out stealing. Unfortunately EVERYTHING I pitched to him had not only been done once, but many times in many ways. I literally went home that night convinced that I couldn't touch this subject without reinventing the wheel at best, and outright plagiarism at worst.

I finally decided, maybe foolishly so, not to read anything. In this way, at least my conscience is clear. And I have surrounded myself here with enough comic book folks who can tell me what to veer away from.

And there is actually another reason that I didn't read it. A more personal one. I have some form (never diagnosed) of dyslexia or reading problem that makes it nearly impossible for me to read anything that is not laid out neatly and logically on the page. I get extremely confused by the dialogue bubbles. My eye never knows whether to go left or right or up or down. I get easily frustrated and give up very quickly whenever I've tried to read comics."

The biggest annoyance for me here is that we're finally getting the WATCHMEN movie next year, and HEROES has gone and ripped it off in the most public way before it even has a chance.



To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
Llakor
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Montreal, Quebec, CANADA

Since last post: 379 days
Last activity: 370 days
AIM:  
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.14
D'uh OK, I'm an idiot.

Honestly, the bring everyone together by blowing up Manhattan is my LEAST favourite part of Watchmen.



"Don't Blame CANADA, Blame Yourselves!"
samoflange
Lap cheong








Since: 22.2.04
From: Cambridge, MA

Since last post: 189 days
Last activity: 181 days
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.30
I'm usually not one to nitpick things, but yeah the Watchmen parallel is kinda ridiculous. Especially with the movie coming relatively soon -- I wonder how the reaction will be from people who aren't familiar with the fact that the Watchmen's story came first.

Nonetheless, Heroes is awesome, and by the time the season's done I might even like the story here better than Watchmen. Can't wait for next week with the promise of seeing lots of badass future samurai Hiro.



Ken Kennedy debuted a new finisher: Jeff Hardy fans will insist on calling it the Swanton Bomb, but it looks WAY more devastating when not performed by a 180-pound fruitcake.
-Rick Scaia 06.12.2006
kentish
Andouille








Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

Since last post: 12 days
Last activity: 1 day
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.83
In the world of fiction, everyone borrows (steals) from everyone. There have been numerous plots to blow up New York, or the world, in various types of fictional stories over the years.

It's also similar to many schemes by Ra's Al Ghul. My point is, the madman wanting to kill millions to save the world is not that uncommon, even when Moore wrote Watchmen. But I do agree they could have been a little more original.




Dean! Have you been shooting dope into your scrotum? You can tell me! I'm hip!
Tenken347
Boudin blanc








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 8 hours
Last activity: 6 hours
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.58
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    The biggest annoyance for me here is that we're finally getting the WATCHMEN movie next year, and HEROES has gone and ripped it off in the most public way before it even has a chance.


We're at least a couple of years away from the Watchmen movie. Even assuming that they are genuinely ready to start filming this summer (Which I highly doubt. They haven't even done casting yet.), under the best, most generous circumstances it should take close to six months to do a full shoot, and then close to another year for post-production, and then another couple months for marketing and positioning. Unless, of course, the whole operation's just going to be a straight to DVD crapfest, then you could wrap it up in a couple months. Two years under the best circumstances, I think.
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1804 days
Last activity: 1738 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
It's the specifics of the thing. Linderman used to be on a team of superheroes. Linderman plans to unite humanity via a covert attack that would unify the world. Linderman's choice of target is New York. And it wouldn't be so grating if Kring hadn't repeatedly said that he has advisers to stop him from plagiarising comic-book history.

Also Tenken, WATCHMEN is locked for a summer 2008 release. Zach Snyder's been in pre-production on it since he wrapped 300 last year - all that's left before shooting is to cast the thing. Given how quickly he turned 300 around, I'm pretty sure he'll make the release date. Also, an estimate of a year for post-prod is crazy. 99% of movies take half that time at the very maximum.



To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
kentish
Andouille








Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

Since last post: 12 days
Last activity: 1 day
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.83
Yeah, either way, I am still excited about eh Watchmen movie. 300 did not seemed rushed at all, so Snyder must have a tireless work ethic.

Others may think Watchmen ripped off Heroes, but we comic nerds will no the truth. Unless he drastically changes the plot/ending.




Dean! Have you been shooting dope into your scrotum? You can tell me! I'm hip!
Dahak
Frankfurter








Since: 12.5.02
From: Junction City OR.

Since last post: 1844 days
Last activity: 1496 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.92
Well leaving out next weeks "Evil possible future episode" I can pretty much say there is no fucking way that NYC will be destroyed. Sure Jericho has nuked everything (I don't watch it so I am not sure) but what type of show mass kills off 5 million or so people?
With Watchmen EVERYTHING revolves around what happens to NYC at the end. If NYC was destroyed on Heroes then any episodes after that would be completely different.



Marge I am just trying to get into heaven not run for Jesus.
StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

Since last post: 26 days
Last activity: 1 day
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.83
    Originally posted by Dahak
    Well leaving out next weeks "Evil possible future episode" I can pretty much say there is no fucking way that NYC will be destroyed. Sure Jericho has nuked everything (I don't watch it so I am not sure) but what type of show mass kills off 5 million or so people?
    With Watchmen EVERYTHING revolves around what happens to NYC at the end. If NYC was destroyed on Heroes then any episodes after that would be completely different.

Yeah, I seriously doubt they let NYC get nuked, but it's funny that you mention Jericho. That's one of my other "appointment TV" shows, and yeah, they totally nuked EVERYTHING. We're talking about brand new national government with half a dozen people declaring themselves the new President, each with their own Capital city. I'd estimate that they killed off at least 8-figures worth of people if not much more.

The difference here is that if NYC gets nuked, that means the good guys failed and everything they worked for this season has probably been for nothing. Meanwhile, the nuking on Jericho happened pretty much from the get-go, and the whole show is based on the premise of how this world would change following such a catastrophic event.

- StingArmy
Tenken347
Boudin blanc








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 8 hours
Last activity: 6 hours
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.58
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    Also Tenken, WATCHMEN is locked for a summer 2008 release. Zach Snyder's been in pre-production on it since he wrapped 300 last year - all that's left before shooting is to cast the thing. Given how quickly he turned 300 around, I'm pretty sure he'll make the release date. Also, an estimate of a year for post-prod is crazy. 99% of movies take half that time at the very maximum.


Actually, a year is pretty standard for any film with large-scale special effects, which Watchmen would require. For comparison, Spider-Man took three years to make, and about half of that was post-production. Now you could cut that time down by either cheaping out on the special effects, cutting most of them, or using an unknown studio that can concentrate all their resources on a single picture (ala Lord of the Rings - but how many animation studios are likely to be as good as the one that did LoR and still unknown?). Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Watchmen will be out for a summer 2008 release. But that would require the entire film to be cast, shot, post-produced, and marketed within a single year; probably resulting in a mediocre film at best. I mean, for a sililar situation, Alien vs. Preditor was another film that was stuck in development hell that they just rushed out as quick as they could. AVP was filmed in 2 and 1/2 months, and post production was another 6. That was the shortest amount of time for filming and post production of any movie in 2004. And look how good that turned out. Personally, I'm hoping that Watchmen is nowhere near ready for release in summer 2008.
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1804 days
Last activity: 1738 days
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
A year is not standard for post-prod. At all. Sam Raimi cast, pre-vizzed, shot, and shepherded SPIDER-MAN 2 through post-production in a two-year window. Spielberg made WAR OF THE WORLDS, from beginning to end, in about eighteen months. SPIDER-MAN 3 didn't wrap until the closing months of last year. Gore Verbinski and co. have made two near-to-three-hour films from scratch in under four years. And when you consider that Snyder's been pre-visualising WATCHMEN for the better part of a year, and is currently casting for a summer start date and a fall/winter wrap, a late summer '08 release date is easily achievable.

And marketing isn't something that only starts to happen once the film is totally finished. Most of the time movies are sold to the audience whilst filming is still ongoing. BATMAN BEGINS had a taser trailer out a full year before release, when Nolan was barely halfway done with filming.

Besides, the point is that whether a yar or eighteen months from now, WATCHMEN has had the rug pulled from under it's signature "big reveal" in the worst way.



To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
John Orquiola
Scrapple








Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 132 days
Last activity: 96 days
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.04
    Originally posted by Lexus
    Siler is the best villain on TV, dare I say in TV History.


What? I will never understand the ridiculous overpraise just like that people heap on Heroes.

I liked when Peter's corpse was brought into Mother Petrelli's house. Mother Petrelli blubbering. Nathan blubbering. Claire walks in, plucks the shard of glass from his head. "He's fine."

A week in Paris is every girl's dream unless you're Claire Bennett. What's with Nathan's logic? "It's just for a week Claire. After I win the election, the reveal of my illegitimate daughter won't raise a single eyebrow."

I also like that Heroes has been steadily killing off all the useless characters I hate. No more Simone, so long Isaac. Make it a hat trick with Mohinder and Heroes and I will be on better terms in season 2.




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