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The W - Pro Wrestling - Dixie Carter promises industry changing event Sunday (Page 8)
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TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

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#141 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
    Originally posted by Parts Unknown
      Originally posted by CRZ
        Originally posted by Parts Unknown
        I wish someone would explain to me why Kurt Angle is such a lock to die in the near future, and where this knowledge comes from.
      No offense, but this makes you look like you haven't been paying attention to the last, say, nine months' or so worth of "news." That said, I'm sure there isn't a single person who wouldn't love to be proven wrong.


    I notice you put "news" in quotes, appropriately. That is exactly my point.


The reason he's in such bad shape is the same reason Eddie, Pillman, Hennig and countless others are dead - too many people, such as you here, are more than willing to turn the other cheek and pretend everything is fine, evidence to the contrary be damned. If you don't know why people are so incredibly worried about Angle, it's because you're either ignorant or just don't want to hear it. Either way, you're wrong.

The WWE, after a long, long list of past failures, is FINALLY doing the right thing. Why are they doing? I don't care. I couldn't possibly care any less than I already do. What I do care about is Kurt Angle's health.

I'm sorry if this is overly dramatic, but I feel like I grew with Kurt Angle. We all saw him progress amazingly over his seven years with WWE. I feel like I know him. It's the same reason I grieved when Owen died; it's the same reason Eddie's death left me in a state of shock. I like these people. I care about these people. They put a lot on the line to entertain me, and the least I can do is show a little appreciation and compassion in return.

Maybe Angle will be fine in TNA. Maybe he'll go out, wrestle two slow-paced, grounded matches a month and in the mean time, repair his body, family and mind. But all evidence I can see says that won't happen, and until it does, I will continue to worry. I haven't been much of a TNA viewer; now, I won't watch at all. It is in part because I hate them for signing Angle - not just for putting Angle at further risk, but also endangering the next WWE guy in Angle's situation, when WWE decides they don't want to release guys for TNA to snatch up. But I won't watch mainly because I don't want to risk being in front of the TV when it all finally falls apart for Angle.

I've already seen one live death in pro wrestling, and that one was entirely unexpected. I don't have to subject myself to watching Angle's demise, so I am going to do whatever I can to avoid it. But that doesn't make Angle incredible life any less tragic - unless things change dramatically for him/by him.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 26.9.06 2050)


"I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it."

--George Carlin
Karlos the Jackal
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Since: 2.1.02
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#142 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    It is in part because I hate them for signing Angle - not just for putting Angle at further risk, but also endangering the next WWE guy in Angle's situation, when WWE decides they don't want to release guys for TNA to snatch up.
I agree with much of what you've said, but it's not TNA's responsibility to enforce WWE's drug policy.

--K



Last 5 movies seen: The Notorious Bettie Page - The Proposition - Touch the Sound - Lucky Number Slevin - Behind Locked Doors
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

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#143 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
    Originally posted by Karlos the Jackal
      Originally posted by TheBucsFan
      It is in part because I hate them for signing Angle - not just for putting Angle at further risk, but also endangering the next WWE guy in Angle's situation, when WWE decides they don't want to release guys for TNA to snatch up.
    I agree with much of what you've said, but it's not TNA's responsibility to enforce WWE's drug policy.

    --K


Well if you want to look at it that way, than it's also not WWE's responsibility to release Angle when his limbs are falling off his body.

TNA should have declined to sign Angle not for WWE's good, but for the good of Angle and every wrestler who follows him.



"I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it."

--George Carlin
AWArulz
Knackwurst








Since: 28.1.02
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#144 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.73
Let's face it, Bucs and I aren't agreeing with each other all that much, but any business that hires a person who was fired in public because of the reasons we all know about is, at the very least, not a responsible company.

This happens in other industries, of course. A few players in the NBA have moved around from team to team because they were no longer wanted because of their problems. Some have been greats, most are not. The guy who choked his coach comes to mind. Seems to me like he's settled down, as I recall. The Priests that moved around because they were Pedophiles.

But I can't think of an athlete who was released because of an inability to fix his life in several arenas, very possibly endangering himself who was snapped up by another team. Usually, guys like that sit on the sidelines until they get it together or completely self-destruct (Maurice Clarett, anyone?).

Kurt needed to sit. TNA needed to let him, but they chose to feed his addiction to action and pain and fame.

It's very wrong. I hope Kurt survives it and gets better.



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Since: 11.12.01
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#145 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.09

    Originally posted by AWArulz
    Kurt needed to sit. TNA needed to let him, but they chose to feed his addiction to action and pain and fame.

    It's very wrong. I hope Kurt survives it and gets better.


People. You are posting about a physical exhibition that "allows" a 60 year old man to go into a cage, get the piss beaten out of him, and "beat" a thirty-something year old man. This isn't pedophile priests, mentally-handicapped jailbird football players...

This is an athletic person who could very very easily be protected thru the limited matches he will be involved in in TNA.

Would you rather have him well-watched in the TNA studios, or in Japan, where they hauled out the aching carcass of Andre until the last bit of life left his body?



As of 2/28/05: 101 pounds since December 7, 2004
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Karlos the Jackal
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Since: 2.1.02
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#146 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
      Originally posted by Karlos the Jackal
        Originally posted by TheBucsFan
        It is in part because I hate them for signing Angle - not just for putting Angle at further risk, but also endangering the next WWE guy in Angle's situation, when WWE decides they don't want to release guys for TNA to snatch up.
      I agree with much of what you've said, but it's not TNA's responsibility to enforce WWE's drug policy.

      --K


    Well if you want to look at it that way, than it's also not WWE's responsibility to release Angle when his limbs are falling off his body.
I'm not sure how that comes from what I said.

What I'm trying to say is two things:

1) If WWE releases a guy and says "oh, yeah, it's because of drugs," it's not TNA's responsibility to say, "oh, okay, because of your wellness program, we'll be sure to stay away!" (Of course, in any particular case, it might well be in TNA's best interest and/or in the wrestler's best interest for TNA not to hire them -- I'm saying that TNA isn't responsible for helping WWE make their wellness programs effective -- that's up to WWE.)

2) If someone -- let's say Batista -- has some sort of drug addiction, and WWE decides that their only recourse is to fire him, but doesn't because they fear that TNA will scoop him up, and then Batista dies in the ring -- are you saying that that death is now TNA's responsibility? Because I think I disagree.

The unfortunate situation is that the industry, as a whole, doesn't take care of its employees. Both WWE and TNA are at fault. Yeah, maybe it's "WWE's responsibility to release Angle when his limbs are falling off his body," but wouldn't it be nice if they didn't let Angle fall that far in the first place?

--K



Last 5 movies seen: The Notorious Bettie Page - The Proposition - Touch the Sound - Lucky Number Slevin - Behind Locked Doors
Freeway
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Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

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#147 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.07
    Originally posted by Karlos the Jackal
      Originally posted by TheBucsFan
        Originally posted by Karlos the Jackal
          Originally posted by TheBucsFan
          It is in part because I hate them for signing Angle - not just for putting Angle at further risk, but also endangering the next WWE guy in Angle's situation, when WWE decides they don't want to release guys for TNA to snatch up.
        I agree with much of what you've said, but it's not TNA's responsibility to enforce WWE's drug policy.

        --K


      Well if you want to look at it that way, than it's also not WWE's responsibility to release Angle when his limbs are falling off his body.
    I'm not sure how that comes from what I said.

    What I'm trying to say is two things:

    1) If WWE releases a guy and says "oh, yeah, it's because of drugs," it's not TNA's responsibility to say, "oh, okay, because of your wellness program, we'll be sure to stay away!" (Of course, in any particular case, it might well be in TNA's best interest and/or in the wrestler's best interest for TNA not to hire them -- I'm saying that TNA isn't responsible for helping WWE make their wellness programs effective -- that's up to WWE.)

    2) If someone -- let's say Batista -- has some sort of drug addiction, and WWE decides that their only recourse is to fire him, but doesn't because they fear that TNA will scoop him up, and then Batista dies in the ring -- are you saying that that death is now TNA's responsibility? Because I think I disagree.

    The unfortunate situation is that the industry, as a whole, doesn't take care of its employees. Both WWE and TNA are at fault. Yeah, maybe it's "WWE's responsibility to release Angle when his limbs are falling off his body," but wouldn't it be nice if they didn't let Angle fall that far in the first place?

    --K


Kurt Angle: I love wrestling.
WWE: You're hurt.
Kurt Angle: I still love wrestling. Hello, painkillers!
WWE: Maybe you shouldn't take so many painkillers.
Kurt Angle: Maybe you should shut up.
WWE: Uh...your limbs are falling off your body but you don't notice because of all the painkillers. STOP WRESTLING and STOP TAKING PAINKILLERS, or else we'll fire you.
Kurt Angle: See ya!
TNA: Score! Hi, Kurt!



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JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#148 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.61
The story continues!

fictional wrestler Jeff Orton: Sup.
WWE: Hey, you failed a drug test.
Jeff Orton: Oops.
WWE: Maybe you should go to rehab.
Jeff Orton: Maybe, maybe not.
WWE: Either go to rehab or else we'll--
TNA: Oh sweet, another historic, industry-changing debut!
WWE: Uhhh. Okay, keep wrestling, but promise not to die.
UnsUwe
Chourico








Since: 6.7.02
From: Germany

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#149 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.41
There is one thing about this entire situation I do not understand, and I have not read yet before:

why is everybody blaming TNA for signing Kurt Angle? Shouldn't the blame go to KURT HIMSELF for actually signing with them? I mean, it's not that they forced Kurt to accept their offer, right? Sure, it is a really wrong move of them to even approach him after this background story just to pop some ratings, and I don't defend this one single bit, but if Kurt is a mentally sane person, and is serious with taking time off and recover, then he should have easily said "no" to TNA and stay home and nurse his body.

If WWE is so concerned with his health, this is not because they actually care about him, but just because they want to avoid another death where they could be blamed for. I know this sounds way harsh, but this is the way it is. When employees are working under circumstances which are hazardous to their health, there are contract clauses pointing that out etc., and if the respective person, like Kurt here, gets FIRED due to his health problems, and he goes to the next company around and does the same thing he got fired for again, I think there is no one to blame but himself!

(edited by UnsUwe on 27.9.06 0928)
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

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#150 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
    Originally posted by UnsUwe
    There is one thing about this entire situation I do not understand, and I have not read yet before:

    why is everybody blaming TNA for signing Kurt Angle? Shouldn't the blame go to KURT HIMSELF for actually signing with them? I mean, it's not that they forced Kurt to accept their offer, right?


I think if there's one thing that's for certain, it's that Angle can't be counted on to take care of himself right now. The man needs a lot of help; he's an addict. He's addicted to drugs and live crowds. He definitely should say no, but such is the nature of addiction. So it falls on TNA and WWE to help him by saying no for him.

It's hard for me to be angry with Angle in the ordeal; the pity I have for him is too great. It is frustrating to see, though.



"I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it."

--George Carlin
Karlos the Jackal
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The City of Subdued Excitement

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#151 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
Freeway, I think it should be more like:
WWE: Maybe you shouldn't take so many painkillers. Oh, also, Brock Lesnar is going to hit you in the head with this chair. Your neck will probably be fine.

So one company bleeds Kurt dry and the other picks up his desiccated husk. The other day I said I was looking for a way that no one had to be the bad guy in this, but more and more I feel like there aren't any good guys.

I'm going to wrap up my participation in this thread by pointing out that TNA is, obviously, keenly aware of the situation they've put themselves in. Even from a purely business standpoint, they sure don't want to be known as the company that killed Kurt Angle.

Hopefully -- hopefully -- they have plans for how to use Kurt in a way that will make him happy and keep him healthy.

Thanks for being civil, folks.

--K



Last 5 movies seen: The Notorious Bettie Page - The Proposition - Touch the Sound - Lucky Number Slevin - Behind Locked Doors
flairforthegold13
Kishke








Since: 1.5.03
From: Gainesville, FL.

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#152 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
From Good Ol' JR


    What is the over/under on how long Kurt Angle stays in TNA? I think the world of Kurt and hope he gets totally healthy much sooner than later. Perhaps being a part of TNA will work for Kurt as it relates to travel and in ring demands. I do think this genre is much better suited for Angle than mixed martial arts, UFC, etc. I wish Kurt well on his new opportunity and that is true, damn true.


Ohhhh, JR used the WWE-copyrighted trademark. Clearly taking a shot (kidding.)

http://jrsbarbq.com/blog/2006/09/27/the-night-the-lights-went-out-in-okc/#more-21
Destrucity
Boerewors








Since: 21.4.04
From: New York, NY, USA

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#153 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.09
    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
    People. You are posting about a physical exhibition that "allows" a 60 year old man to go into a cage, get the piss beaten out of him, and "beat" a thirty-something year old man. This isn't pedophile priests, mentally-handicapped jailbird football players...

    This is an athletic person who could very very easily be protected thru the limited matches he will be involved in in TNA.
Oh my God oh my God oh my God I can't believe I'm actually getting involved in this big, horrendous mess, but I really must say I believe the point here is that Kurt doesn't want to be protected in limited matches, and that's pretty much why he got canned. TNA has to know that, don't they?



"No one doesn't like Sabu!" -Tazz
DirtyMikeSeaver
Boudin rouge








Since: 19.5.02
From: Toronto

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#154 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.88
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    I think if there's one thing that's for certain, it's that Angle can't be counted on to take care of himself right now.
I think this article sums up everything I want to say about this situation. BTW, when someone starts a thread about Brett Favre or Steve McNair or any other QB not playing football anymore because of the painkillers they take, let me know:

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/columns/45755

(edited by CRZ on 27.9.06 2257)


Kevin Kelly: "Mr. Austin, would you like to comment on Wade Keller's Take that endorsing the XFL hurts your anti-authority character?"

Steve Austin: "Oh shit, he actually said that? I thought the boys in the back were ribbing me!"

Kelly: "No, he really said that. Did they tell you the part about you sitting in the stands, looking all skeptical?"

Austin: "AHAHAHAHAHAHA. Yeah... oh man that was too much."
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#155 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.62
I think this article is so obsessed with meta-discussion that it laughably misses the point. Yes, it's Kurt Angle's decision, obviously. But Kurt Angle's decisions are not exactly sound because they're being made by a drug addict who was fired from his last job because of his problem. A problem that hasn't been resolved in the three weeks since he was fired.

And Brett Favre and Steve McNair wouldn't be in the league let alone playing if they walked around practice in a drug-induced stupor. And they wouldn't be playing football if their necks were broken. And the NFL wouldn't sign a player if he had been kicked out of college football for taking drugs. Three weeks earlier. Other than that, and the level of addiction, and the amount of painkillers, it's exactly the same.

Like everyone else I feel like I'm repeating myself over and over again, so I guess I'll leave it at that. Unless questions I think I know the answers to pop up. Meltzer in this week's Observer gave the specific financial terms of his release: he was going to be paid until Feb. 28 which would've amounted to $500,000.

(edited by JustinShapiro on 27.9.06 1834)
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

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#156 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.60
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    And the NFL wouldn't sign a player if he had been kicked out of college football for taking drugs. Three weeks earlier.






The Oakland Raiders and the Cincinnati Bengals come quickly to mind.
DirtyMikeSeaver
Boudin rouge








Since: 19.5.02
From: Toronto

Since last post: 15 days
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#157 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.88
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    I think this article is so obsessed with meta-discussion that it laughably misses the point. Yes, it's Kurt Angle's decision, obviously. But Kurt Angle's decisions are not exactly sound because they're being made by a drug addict who was fired from his last job because of his problem. A problem that hasn't been resolved in the three weeks since he was fired.

    And Brett Favre and Steve McNair wouldn't be in the league let alone playing if they walked around practice in a drug-induced stupor. And they wouldn't be playing football if their necks were broken. And the NFL wouldn't sign a player if he had been kicked out of college football for taking drugs. Three weeks earlier. Other than that, and the level of addiction, and the amount of painkillers, it's exactly the same.

    Like everyone else I feel like I'm repeating myself over and over again, so I guess I'll leave it at that. Unless questions I think I know the answers to pop up. Meltzer in this week's Observer gave the specific financial terms of his release: he was going to be paid until Feb. 28 which would've amounted to $500,000.

    (edited by JustinShapiro on 27.9.06 1834)



While I wouldn't exactly had put it as this article had, I agree with the main point of it.

This is what Kurt wants to do, apparently. Maybe it's isn't the right thing, but it's his life. Considering this is a sport where Dynamite Kid ended up in a wheelchair alone in a flat because of all the bumps and steriods he took and he still says he would do it, it's not like Kurt's the first person to have the 'sickness'. And we as fans encourage it. John Cena and Edge had a TLC match and everyone cheered, knowing that one false move, someone could be close to paralysis. Hardcore Holly opens up a huge gash in his back and we praise him for continuing to wrestle, even though he almost lost an arm to infection. Wrestlers take unproctected chair shots to the head and we cheer. Chris Daniels leaps towards a belt from a flimsy structure, where one slip could kill him, and we exult him. The point is, while Kurt is in danger, heck, EVERY wrestler is in danger.

I also find it funny that people are saying "The WWE tried to do right by Kurt by firing to scare him sober" when their owner 90% more ripped than most of their wrestlers and they changed their Wellness Policy to make sure wrestlers (Randy Orton) don't miss any time. Sure, they suspended Chris Masters, but does ANYONE think that they would have done the same if it was Triple H?

I mentioned McNair and Farve because they've had their issues with painkillers. Farve has a well documented painkiller addiction, but as far as I know, he didn't take any time off football, nor did the Packers ever threaten to release him (although his wife did threaten to leave him, I believe). McNair once used HORSE TRAQUILIZERS to play a playoff football game to dull the pain of a torn quad and the annoucers nearly deified him. There isn't a person on this board that won't admit that their favorite wrestlers are on the juice or their favorite team doesn't have someone on the juice. It's funny how some forms of drug abuse are acceptable.

TNA didn't do what any sporting team wouldn't have done, which is take a chance with a guy. Terrell Owens, Randy Moss, Rasheed Wallace, Keyshawn Johnson, Ricky Willams, Steve Howe. The list goes on and on with athletes who someone thinks they can rehab. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But TNA isn't the first, and they won't be the last.

BTW, there's a great acticle out there about Shane Douglas and his addiction to Oxycotton and how TNA helped him through it. At the very least, they have someone that's been through what he has.....



Kevin Kelly: "Mr. Austin, would you like to comment on Wade Keller's Take that endorsing the XFL hurts your anti-authority character?"

Steve Austin: "Oh shit, he actually said that? I thought the boys in the back were ribbing me!"

Kelly: "No, he really said that. Did they tell you the part about you sitting in the stands, looking all skeptical?"

Austin: "AHAHAHAHAHAHA. Yeah... oh man that was too much."
Mr. Boffo
Scrapple








Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

Since last post: 511 days
Last activity: 471 days
#158 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.12
    Originally posted by DirtyMikeSeaver
    I mentioned McNair and Farve because they've had their issues with painkillers. Farve has a well documented painkiller addiction, but as far as I know, he didn't take any time off football, nor did the Packers ever threaten to release him (although his wife did threaten to leave him, I believe). McNair once used HORSE TRAQUILIZERS to play a playoff football game to dull the pain of a torn quad and the annoucers nearly deified him.


On the other hand, the NFL has an off-season. In fact, the NFL year consists of 4 months of getting hit (5 if your team makes it all the way to the Super Bowl).

In 11 months of work out the last 12 (he was suspended for July) Kurt Angle has wrestling 59 televised matches, according to obsessedwithwrestling.com . Add in house shows, which seem to happen about twice a week, and that's 160 performances in a year. Granted, they're not all ironman matches, or anything like that, but it seems to be a good deal above anything an NFL player has to deal with.
hayden
Salami








Since: 11.1.05

Since last post: 222 days
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#159 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.73
In terms of Kurt Angle saying that he felt held back, I'd think it's more likely he meant in terms of length and type of matches as opposed to accomplishments like title reigns. For instance, he spent a considerable amount of time doing those hometown challenges for his Olympic medals, which were all 1-3 minute squashes. Maybe during that period of time he wanted to be wrestling full-length matches, but WWE compromised by having him do those? Maybe he's referring to the cookie-cutter style of a lot of WWE main event matches? Just a couple of ideas as to the meaning behind the "held back" comment, as it seems very unlikely to me he's talking about titles and King of the Rings and the like.

(edited by hayden on 28.9.06 0319)
dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

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#160 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.04
    Originally posted by hayden
    In terms of Kurt Angle saying that he felt held back, I'd think it's more likely he meant in terms of length and type of matches as opposed to accomplishments like title reigns. For instance, he spent a considerable amount of time doing those hometown challenges for his Olympic medals, which were all 1-3 minute squashes. Maybe during that period of time he wanted to be wrestling full-length matches, but WWE compromised by having him do those? Maybe he's referring to the cookie-cutter style of a lot of WWE main event matches? Just a couple of ideas as to the meaning behind the "held back" comment, as it seems very unlikely to me he's talking about titles and King of the Rings and the like.

    (edited by hayden on 28.9.06 0319)


I think that is exactly what he is referring to, which is an even scarier thought than him feeling misused in WWE.

It means he no longer has to deal with Vince telling him not to do the moonsault.
This is Kurt Angle we are talking about, the man that feels he should be having the match of the night every night.
Which means outperform the X-division guys.
That means he will probably want to do all the insane high flying and flipping stuff, when he goes up against Joe, Daniels, Styles, and so on and on.





*sigh* Why bother?
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