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The W - Pro Wrestling - Dixie Carter promises industry changing event Sunday (Page 7)
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CTX
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Since: 11.5.02

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#121 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.62
    Originally posted by Oliver
    With that, I have but one thing to say: I am disappointed in you, Kurt. You were given (in good faith) a release from your WWE contract so that you can mend your broken body, broken life, and get everything back on track. Yet...hey, look where you are!

Don't think for a second Vince released him out of the kindness of his heart. He didn't want another 30-something year old corpse on his hands so soon after Guerrero. These people trying to shift the blame to TNA for hiring him should remember who allowed Angle to get himself into this condition in the first place. He couldn't have crippled himself if he wasn't wrestling.

Plus, don't TNA contracted guys have a full healthcare package? I'd say one match a month with full cover is a huge step in the right direction.



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majikx
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Since: 6.9.05
From: Elizabethtown

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#122 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.69
Man, TNA barely pays anyone, they don't have a health care system like Vince does where the company pays for in ring injuries and addictions. When Angle went to Dr. Jho in Pittsburgh for accupuncture instead of Dr. Andrews for Spinal fusion I BELIEVE it was on his own dime. Because Dr. Jho's techniques were not designed for the abuse of Pro-Wrestlers. Angle reccommended Dr. Jho to Matt Capotelli after he was diagnosed with the brain tumor, but I don't think he liked or was able to afford Dr. Jho. If any of you have read William Regal's book it really illustrates how much Vince tries to get these guys healthy. Vince firing Angle is similar to how he fired Regal when he refused further treatment to kick the drugs. Everyone likes to say that Vince Russo was only successful when he had Vince as an editor to reel in his crazy ideas. So my question is this, without Vince and the WWE road agents there to modify his workrate, who is gonna look out for Kurt Angle? Angle is like a tired old actor who used to be somebody, and TNA is gonna squeeze the last bit of name recognition they can out of him. I bet they secretly hope they get enough matches out of him for a nice tribute when he dies. Kurt Angle victim of death via TNA?
RYDER FAKIN
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Since: 21.2.02
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#123 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.49
Don't think for a second Vince released him out of the kindness of his heart. He didn't want another 30-something year old corpse on his hands so soon after Guerrero.

The logic, or end result behind that may be true, but there is such a thing as tough love - which is what happened - the kindness in Vince's heart said "Clean Up and We Will Be Here For You". McMahon's track record on that is well documented

Angle could have gone to rehab, instead of denying his issues and then giving Vince the middle finger for giving a shit to begin with. And McMahon is painted as the bad guy in all this. Go figure

These people trying to shift the blame to TNA for hiring him should remember who allowed Angle to get himself into this condition in the first place. He couldn't have crippled himself if he wasn't wrestling.

I totally blame TNA in this case. There is such a word as "no". As far as Angle is concerned, he's obvously his own worse enemy - blame WWE if you want, but they stopped being the enabler. After the fact opinions to how we got here are null and void.

Plus, don't TNA contracted guys have a full healthcare package? I'd say one match a month with full cover is a huge step in the right direction.

I'd say no matches and live the rest of your life off royalties and interest. One match may be all it takes

Look at it this way - Steiner is (arguably) in better physical condidtion than Angle. His match with Samoa Joe? "No fucking way am I taking that Muscle Buster". Angle's not that smart. Hopefully Joe is. Guess we will find out

"early release" - that may mean a no-compete clause, get straight a la Regal and come back when you can

"fired" - if there is not the no-compete clause (or even if there is, but no rehab, a la Jeffy Hardy) it's probably going to be blood on TNA's hands


- 8.25.06

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Since: 16.10.02
From: Connecticut

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#124 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.55
The youtube video said "KIRK Angle".

Maybe it's Kurt's brother Eric playing a character named Kirk Angle (who happens to be a gold-medalist, etc.) They do look and sound pretty similar. Could be a fake Diesel/Razor/Undertaker type deal.

Just a theory from a non-TNA viewer...



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Since: 17.3.02

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#125 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.33
    Originally posted by Parts Unknown
    I wish someone would explain to me why Kurt Angle is such a lock to die in the near future, and where this knowledge comes from.

Certainly not a lock, but it's obvious that he's not healthy and he doesn't have a solid history of protecting himself. This is a man who boasts of winning a gold medal with a broken neck, after all. His injury list is a matter of public record at this point. He's not a lock to die, but he's certainly running a very, very high risk of serious injury, even by wrestling standards.
XPacArmy
Frankfurter








Since: 13.5.03
From: Woodbridge, VA

Since last post: 358 days
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#126 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.34
    Originally posted by majikx
    Man, TNA barely pays anyone, they don't have a health care system like Vince does where the company pays for in ring injuries and addictions. When Angle went to Dr. Jho in Pittsburgh for acupuncture instead of Dr. Andrews for Spinal fusion I BELIEVE it was on his own dime. Because Dr. Jho's techniques were not designed for the abuse of Pro-Wrestlers. Angle recommended Dr. Jho to Matt Capotelli after he was diagnosed with the brain tumor, but I don't think he liked or was able to afford Dr. Jho. If any of you have read William Regal's book it really illustrates how much Vince tries to get these guys healthy. Vince firing Angle is similar to how he fired Regal when he refused further treatment to kick the drugs. Everyone likes to say that Vince Russo was only successful when he had Vince as an editor to reel in his crazy ideas. So my question is this, without Vince and the WWE road agents there to modify his workrate, who is gonna look out for Kurt Angle? Angle is like a tired old actor who used to be somebody, and TNA is gonna squeeze the last bit of name recognition they can out of him. I bet they secretly hope they get enough matches out of him for a nice tribute when he dies. Kurt Angle victim of death via TNA?


I 100% completely disagree with you. And I guess the majority of people. Id really don't see how TNA could get any blame in this. Is Kurt healthy, no. But I get the feeling Kurt would wrestle anywhere he could get booked if TNA didn't sign him. At least with the TNA schedule as it has been brought up, he works very few days a month and can spend the rest of the time rehabbing. Will he actually do that? Who knows. But to somehow clam that Kurt might die and it could be TNA's fault is completely insane. How do we not know that one of the conditions to signing with TNA was to seek rehab? We don't. Listen I really suck at putting my words down on paper, or type as it were, but I will just end my rant now by saying I really don't see how acting like Kurt WILL die soon or even that TNA is HOPING that he does so they can do a tribute is completely f&%king stupid.



CTX
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Since: 11.5.02

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#127 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.62
    Originally posted by RYDER FAKIN
    The logic, or end result behind that may be true, but there is such a thing as tough love - which is what happened - the kindness in Vince's heart said "Clean Up and We Will Be Here For You". McMahon's track record on that is well documented

I don't doubt Vince has some compassion, but in any situation like this I still see it as Vince protecting a future investment. If he wasn't interested in Angle getting ring-healthy again (when he should probably never wrestle again) why not just pay Angle and force him to sit at home until his contract runs out? "Tough love" would have been keeping him in a controlled environment and not allowing him to wrestle, not firing him where he's free to go kill himself in countless other places.

    Originally posted by RYDER FAKIN
    I totally blame TNA in this case. There is such a word as "no". As far as Angle is concerned, he's obvously his own worse enemy - blame WWE if you want, but they stopped being the enabler.

The only reason they stopped being the enabler is because they ran him (with Angle's help of course) so far into the ground that he couldn't live without painkillers. Their ultimatum was basically "work without the painkillers or you're fired", which at this stage is probably impossible for him to do. If Angle had stopped taking the drugs and instead chose to live in constant pain I have no doubt he would have been back wrestling for Vince at one point or another, which is more disturbing than anything else in this whole situation.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying TNA are doing this for anything other than increasing business, but if Angle must continue wrestling (which it seems he must) then TNA is by far the best option that I can see.

    Originally posted by RYDER FAKIN
    "fired" - if there is not the no-compete clause (or even if there is, but no rehab, a la Jeffy Hardy) it's probably going to be blood on TNA's hands

I don't get this at all. Hardy got fired from the WWE over drugs, refused to go to rehab, worked in TNA for over a year and now he's back in the WWE. If anything it makes TNA look good since he apparently got clean during his stint there.



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TheBucsFan
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Since: 2.1.02

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#128 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
    Originally posted by CTX
      Originally posted by Oliver
      With that, I have but one thing to say: I am disappointed in you, Kurt. You were given (in good faith) a release from your WWE contract so that you can mend your broken body, broken life, and get everything back on track. Yet...hey, look where you are!

    Don't think for a second Vince released him out of the kindness of his heart. He didn't want another 30-something year old corpse on his hands so soon after Guerrero. These people trying to shift the blame to TNA for hiring him should remember who allowed Angle to get himself into this condition in the first place. He couldn't have crippled himself if he wasn't wrestling.

    Plus, don't TNA contracted guys have a full healthcare package? I'd say one match a month with full cover is a huge step in the right direction.


Oh man - people call the risks Angle faces "speculation" despite overwhelming documentation, but then we have you saying McMahon released him because he's a cruel, selfish, ingorant fuck ... and that's a fact baby.


    If he wasn't interested in Angle getting ring-healthy again (when he should probably never wrestle again) why not just pay Angle and force him to sit at home until his contract runs out?


They tried that, and it didn't work. They needed something to make Angle, who has gone absolutely nuts, get the message. It didn't work, apparently.


    The only reason they stopped being the enabler is because they ran him (with Angle's help of course) so far into the ground that he couldn't live without painkillers. Their ultimatum was basically "work without the painkillers or you're fired", which at this stage is probably impossible for him to do. If Angle had stopped taking the drugs and instead chose to live in constant pain I have no doubt he would have been back wrestling for Vince at one point or another, which is more disturbing than anything else in this whole situation.


It was Angle who worked Wrestlemania with a broken neck and declined to get surgery. It was Angle who has repeatedly been given time off, and elected not to take it and instead work through it. WWE has been worried about him since like November, or whenever the initial "death watch" notice came out. Seems to me like Angle forced their hand here.

And you want to talk about business? When Eddie died, WWE hd a reputation in place long before him and were able to handle it. Do you think TNA is ready to handle the death of a superstar much bigger than Guerrerro?

    Originally posted by XPacArmy
    I 100% completely disagree with you. And I guess the majority of people. Id really don't see how TNA could get any blame in this. Is Kurt healthy, no. But I get the feeling Kurt would wrestle anywhere he could get booked if TNA didn't sign him. At least with the TNA schedule as it has been brought up, he works very few days a month and can spend the rest of the time rehabbing. Will he actually do that? Who knows. But to somehow clam that Kurt might die and it could be TNA's fault is completely insane. How do we not know that one of the conditions to signing with TNA was to seek rehab? We don't. Listen I really suck at putting my words down on paper, or type as it were, but I will just end my rant now by saying I really don't see how acting like Kurt WILL die soon or even that TNA is HOPING that he does so they can do a tribute is completely f&%king stupid.


If TNA didn't book him, and someone else did, they'd be acting just as irresponsibly as TNA is now.

It's true that we don't even know yet how Angle is going to be used in his new role, but I don't see any ways that he will realistically be utilized that are safe for him, given what we know.



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ekedolphin
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Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 133 days
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#129 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.29
From the full statement by Kurt Angle on TNAWrestling.com, these two sentences particularly set off my "bullshit" sensor:

"I don’t feel trapped or held back like I did the first six years in my tenure with the other company. They held me back."

Yeesh, I understand it's "the thing" for WWE alumni, upon arriving in TNA, to criticize WWE for holding them back, but at least guys like Rhino and particularly Christian could say that with a straight face.

Kurt Angle won the WWE Championship four times, and also won the Invasion-era WCW World and United States Championship, World Heavyweight Championship, Intercontinental, European, Hardcore and WWE Tag Team Championships, and won the 2000 King of the Ring. And he's been a main-event face continuously on WWE programming since late 2000 when he first got into contention for the WWF Title. In what way was he held back; what, is he upset he didn't win the RAW-brand World Tag Team Title or something?

I like TNA a lot, but statements like that make them seem bush-league, and makes Angle sound petty.

(edited by ekedolphin on 25.9.06 1826)


"Hurt me if you must, but let the duckie go."
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astrobstrd
Bockwurst








Since: 13.3.02
From: Loveland, OH

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#130 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.59
    Originally posted by ekedolphin
    From the full statement by Kurt Angle on TNAWrestling.com, these two sentences particularly set off my "bullshit" sensor:

    "I don’t feel trapped or held back like I did the first six years in my tenure with the other company. They held me back."

    Yeesh, I understand it's "the thing" for WWE alumni, upon arriving in TNA, to criticize WWE for holding them back, but at least guys like Rhino and particularly Christian could say that with a straight face.

    Kurt Angle won the WWE Championship four times, and also won the Invasion-era WCW World and United States Championship, World Heavyweight Championship, Intercontinental, European, Hardcore and WWE Tag Team Championships, and won the 2000 King of the Ring. And he's been a main-event face continuously on WWE programming since late 2000 when he first got into contention for the WWF Title. In what way was he held back; what, is he upset he didn't win the RAW-brand World Tag Team Title or something?

    I like TNA a lot, but statements like that make them seem bush-league, and makes Angle sound petty.

    (edited by ekedolphin on 25.9.06 1826)


The scary thing is that I don't think he meant "held back" as in they weren't pushing him. I believe he meant held back as in "protect yourself and be safe". I just really hope he stays out of huge gimmick/hardcore matches and away from X-division high spot stuff. He may be alright if he stays with Christian and Jarrett and takes nothing worse than a stroke or unprettier.



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but I kill it.
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Since: 25.8.05
From: Michigan

Since last post: 232 days
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#131 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.65
An open letter to Kurt Angle

Kurt, what happened between the time you wrote your letter and now? Just a few quotes:

"It's time to rest!"

Kurt, you put that exclamation point there, not me. How much rest can you get in such a short period of time?

and this from your wife:

"something bad is really going to happen and I don't want Kyra and Kody to grow up without their father."

So, basically, you are so self centered that you don't care about what doing to yourself will end up doing to your family. Well, I guess when Kody gets old enough, Kyra can give lessons on how to put ice packs on your body. That is, if your wife sticks it out. I could totally understand it if she told you to go away and die somewhere else. I know that sounds heartless, but that's just what your decision is, heartless. It can't be for the money, or the fame, you have plenty of both. You need the rush. At the expense of your family. That is just sad.

Good luck, Kurt. I pray nothing bad happens to you. Not only for your sake, but your family's as well. I hope you reconsider, but I know you won't.



I know he won't read this, but this is the only way I could express how I feel about this. Thanks for indulging me.
JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
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#132 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.45
At what point do the other wrestlers start questioning whether they are safe in the ring with Angle? I know I wouldn't want to be the first guy in the ring with him if even half this stuff is true (which I believe it mostly all is). Not that Angle's not trustworthy, but how long before he tries a suplex and something (a muscle or a tendon or something) snaps and he does the other guy like Droz?

I'd like to think that's where Vince was with this when he decided it was time for Kurt to go, because Angle's not the only one at risk when there are people in the ring.



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Some new quotes in your sig.
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redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#133 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.60
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    It was Angle who worked Wrestlemania with a broken neck and declined to get surgery. It was Angle who has repeatedly been given time off, and elected not to take it and instead work through it. WWE has been worried about him since like November, or whenever the initial "death watch" notice came out. Seems to me like Angle forced their hand here.





If Vince really wanted to he could just not have booked Angle at all until he got the message that he wouldn't be allowed to get into the ring without getting help. Think after 6 or 7 months the message could possibly have penetrated into Angle's head? Instead, each time they shut him down, they did bring him back. Was Kurt going to go to a street corner someplace and have pick-up matches? Now, I don't blame Vince for getting out of paying someone 7 figures to do nothing. Business is business after all. However, Vince has put many wrestlers in questionable conditions in the ring throughout the past 25 years, so let's not beatify him for sainthood. He let Brian Pillman in a ring when he definitely shouldn't have been in one.
And, the 1 or 2 safest days of the month for Kurt Angle might be when he is working for TNA. Does anyone have any doubt that he will pick up an many Indy dates as humanly possible for the TNA downtime? That will be when he could do something incredibly stupid in unsafe ring conditions.
Spiraling_Shape
Bratwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: PA

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#134 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.97
When I first read the news today, I got the chills in a bad way...just an awful feeling. I don't want to get into the speculation game, but this is a disappointing and potentially scary decision by someone who is (was?) one of my favorite performers over the years.



Duo_Shinigami_1083
Linguica








Since: 10.10.05
From: Johnstown, NY

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#135 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.36
When I read that Kurt claimed to have been "held back", to me, it's the usual anti-WWE remark ("Triple H held me back", "I miss WCW", "Vince ruined my life", "It's the writing team's fault that they didn't push me", blah blah blah blah).



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Landjager








Since: 22.2.04
From: Frankfurt, Germany

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#136 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.39
From tnawrestling.com:

“Being with TNA feels like I have finally found my home. I had fun in WWE at certain times, but I was never really happy. Now being a part of TNA, I know I have a purpose. I feel like I am part of history, part of a company that is not only on the rise – not only going to be the number-one watched wrestling show in the world within a short period of time – but TNA gives me an opportunity to spread my wings. This company has no limits to where it can go. The sky is the limit and the main reason is because they brought the “real” back into wrestling and that is a perfect fit for the greatest wrestler in USA Olympic history. I have room to grow here and to help TNA grow. Working for these caring and very giving employers of TNA makes me feel like I have a purpose and that the sky is the limit. I don’t feel trapped or held back like I did the first six years in my tenure with the other company. They held me back. Now, our wonderful audience will see the real Kurt Angle doing what I love to do – real wrestling – and that’s what puts a smile on my face each time I come to work. I even smile when I think about it. TNA will be the most watched television show on cable television. It’s only a matter of time. Now, I get the opportunity and privilege of being a part of it. Thank you TNA for saving my career, my life and my desire to do what I love. I will be here in some capacity for the rest of my life. That’s real…that’s damn real.” – Kurt Angle


Wow! He has lost his mind! He was never happy in WWE!

HE was held back in WWE! And felt trapped!



IF Kurt Angle really wrote or said all of that:
YOU SUCK, Kurt Angle! It´s true! It´s true!

What an ungrateful SOB! How can a guy like Angle, a former 6 times World champion in WWE (plus IC, European, Hardcore and Tag Team) ever claim that he´s been held back???

Only reason: He´s f´n crazy!

I understand Rhyno and Raven, when they are bitching about WWE, but NOT Angle! He did it all in WWE! And has nothing to bitch about! (The same goes for the Dudleyz by the way!)



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Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

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#137 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.28
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
      Originally posted by TheBucsFan
      It was Angle who worked Wrestlemania with a broken neck and declined to get surgery. It was Angle who has repeatedly been given time off, and elected not to take it and instead work through it. WWE has been worried about him since like November, or whenever the initial "death watch" notice came out. Seems to me like Angle forced their hand here.





    If Vince really wanted to he could just not have booked Angle at all until he got the message that he wouldn't be allowed to get into the ring without getting help. Think after 6 or 7 months the message could possibly have penetrated into Angle's head?


I'm just curious about something here. I've wondered about them paying him to stay home before, and I know that they've done it with guys in the past who were willing to sit at home and collect a check (which Angle seemingly wasn't).

Could there be a chance that the reason Vince didn't pay him to sit at home be that Angle might have gone after him for not allowing him to earn his full potential? I'm not talking about a guy not getting pushed has the right to sue McMahon or anything, but taking a guy that was making as much as he was, and then refusing to give him anything except for the downside, not even giving him the chance for any PPV money, or even to go on camera with merchandise that he could make royalties from, and not allowing him to even work indies on his off days, is it possible that he might have had a case?

I honetly don't know, I'm certainly not a lawyer, but I was wondering if there could be a reason why Vince wasn't able to just let him sit at home. Angle seems like the guy that would make a lot of noise at being forced home with no ability to work at all.

ps. Am I the only one who wonders if those TNA (or WWE) website messages are kayfabe or not? Do we know for sure if the wrestlers are even writing them?


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Since: 2.1.02
From: The City of Subdued Excitement

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#138 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
You know, another way of looking at this is that maybe TNA is proactively saving Angle's life.

If it's true that Angle just can't stop himself (and this seems to be a consensus opinion), signing with TNA might preclude whatever other things Kurt might do instead (indie feds, MMA, underground fight clubs in Bangkok). (I note suggestions that MMA would be safer for Kurt than pro wrestling, but I think that's pretty debatable [I don't know enough about MMA to argue, though].)

If Angle is psychologically incapable of just sitting at home, TNA is probably the safest option for him; his signing might be considered an intervention of sorts, providing him with a (relatively safe) outlet to channel his energy into (which may be good for his mental well-being as well).

Okay. I realize, of course, that I'm bending over backwards rationalizing this. Obviously, TNA didn't hire him for purely altruistic reasons. Also, it's not an exclusive contract, so Kurt can go to Bangkok anyway if he feels like he's not getting enough action from TNA.

I've been a TNA fan for years, and a Kurt Angle fan for longer -- this whole thing should have me deliriously excited, but instead I'm -- literally -- queasy. I was really hoping that Angle wouldn't be "the surprise," and now I'm desperately trying to find a bright side where no one has to be "the bad guy," so forgive my indulgences.

Dixie Carter says, "Just like with all of our wrestlers, Kurt’s family and health will always come first." Man, I hope so.

--K



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Since: 2.1.02
From: Darkenwood

Since last post: 57 days
Last activity: 23 hours
#139 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.37
    Originally posted by CRZ
      Originally posted by Parts Unknown
      I wish someone would explain to me why Kurt Angle is such a lock to die in the near future, and where this knowledge comes from.
    No offense, but this makes you look like you haven't been paying attention to the last, say, nine months' or so worth of "news." That said, I'm sure there isn't a single person who wouldn't love to be proven wrong.


I notice you put "news" in quotes, appropriately. That is exactly my point.




"How could we possibly appreciate the Mona Lisa if Leonardo had written at the bottom of the canvas: 'The lady is smiling because she is hiding a secret from her lover.' This would shackle the viewer to reality, and I don't want this to happen to 2001." - Stanley Kubrick
CHAPLOW
Morcilla








Since: 14.5.04
From: right behind you

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#140 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.13
Well, Im not saying he's a "lock to die" but as a big fan of the man I am worried about his well-being, he is pushing himself way too hard (I myself, would probably already have been down and out after tearing and breaking everything this man has) and he keeps on working anyway.

This is of course, aside from the "news" that CRZ made reference to (i.e. incoming divorce, "emotional wreck", being fired for his own well-being etc)



"I'm tired of humans telling me what God thinks. If pandas told us what God thinks, we would all be eating bamboo!"

-me during a serious religious debate
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Hey, I'd like to watch it more but I can't justify paying $10 Bucks a week for a show. And don't bring up the only 3 hour WWE PPV's for 35+ because I don't buy those every month either. On the flip side I am SOOO there for WWE 24/7.
- Craigerson, NWA TNA 3/24 (2004)
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